About these vow renewals ...

Lisa50 · May 2012

For anyone who thinks of having a vow renewal any less than 25 or 50 years after the wedding, take a look at what you might want to shoot for: http://dailynightly.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/30/11473610-former-olympian-grants-wishes-to-seniors?lite

If this link doesn't work, go to http://www.seniorwish.org/ and find the story referred to on the left column under the date April 27, 2012. The story aired this evening on NBC News with Brian Williams.

right1thistime · May 2012

And THIS is a vow renewal I can stand behind. THere's no woe is me, I didn't get my vision. Just a simple desire to say I love you as much as I did 67 years ago in the midst of a World War. I LOVE it. ~Donna

handfast4me · May 2012

No PPD for them. :-)

boaznruth · May 2012

I guess I'm an odd one here, because I really don't care whether people do vow renewals or not. I mean, it's their money...if they want to throw a party and wear a dress and celebrate their relationship in that way, I guess I figure there are worse things they could be doing. With so much hate in the world, it seems pretty harmless to have a day to celebrate love. The only downside I could see is if they demand presents or for others to chip in to pay the bill.

I also don't think it takes anything away from my wedding.

Am I missing something here? What, really, is the big deal that gets everyone so worked up about this?

Lisa50 · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_about-these-vow-renewals?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:35Discussion:fa6099bb-965c-4eb7-862b-5a06ab0ecf50Post:70f80454-618d-4367-bb53-4e300904664d">Re: About these vow renewals ...</a>:
[QUOTE]I guess I'm an odd one here, because I really don't care whether people do vow renewals or not. I mean, it's their money...if they want to throw a party and wear a dress and celebrate their relationship in that way, I guess I figure there are worse things they could be doing. With so much hate in the world, it seems pretty harmless to have a day to celebrate love. The only downside I could see is if they demand presents or for others to chip in to pay the bill. I also don't think it takes anything away from my wedding. Am I missing something here? What, really, is the big deal that gets everyone so worked up about this?
Posted by boaznruth[/QUOTE]

If it doesn't bother you, it doesn't bother you. I can only speak for myself on this ... so it's just my opinion.

I find the attempts to create "perfection" a year or two after a wedding with a re-do very immature and a very obvious attempt to grab attention. I find the position that many married women (I've never heard a man aching for a do-over) take -- that things weren't good enough when they got married -- that they'll just wiggle their noses, a la Samantha in Bewitched, and make the "bad" wedding just go away, ridiculous.

The fact is, once you're married, it is done. Sh*t happens and nothing is perfect. What's with the need to make the wedding something it was not? It really bugs me that people decide they can't live with a decision made, an action taken, and treat the initial wedding as if it is a white board -- poof! Just erase and re-do.

I find it insulting when people refer to ceremonies performed in a courthouse, or other location, with a judge or justice of the peace, as <em>not </em>a real wedding. If a divorce is required to nullify the union ... it was a real wedding. And this is just one of the lame excuses used to justify the re-do. Ugh!

You're right ... if these folks want to spend their money on re-doing something that's baked, that's their choice. I suspect they'd put the funds to better use by investing in couples' therapy. Re-doing a wedding a year later isn't going to fix whatever is ailing in the marriage.

And about that harmless day celebrating their marriage, a couple can do that together, on a consistent basis by honoring one another and pledging, through their actions, to keep their vows sacred.

But that's just me, I suppose.

handfast4me · May 2012

It's not just you, Lisa, I feel the same way. These "do-overs" are ridiculous. DH and I wanted to be married, but due to state laws (frickin' muggles!) we couldn't use our Handfasting as a legal ceremony by the officiants we wanted. So, we had to have another ceremony, a legal wedding. Both were private, no guests, no bridal party, no siblings, parents or anyone else. So, it offends me when people, as Lisa mentioned, say they didn't have a "real wedding" when they CHOSE to go to the courthouse. Everyone makes their choices, and I agree, if they want to spend their money, it's up to them. But do they really think that normal, reasonable people will show up to these things? And do the expect their MOH to throw them a shower? It just makes me wonder about the thought process. I guess there is no thought process.

The real deal here is that the GOAL is to be legally (and spriritually, if you so desire) linked to your spouse. The end game is not the wedding and reception, but the life you lead afterwards. I get the feeling that many of these women are doing this with a check-off list in their heads 1) finish school 2) get married (big wedding) 3) have 2.2 children 4) buy a house.

This do-over thing, I think, is a recent phenomenon. I would like to speak to some of these women 20 years after having their do-over. Did it make their marriage any better? Do they regret spending all that money on it? Did it change anything in their lives?

But that's me, I suppose.

right1thistime · May 2012

Ruth, I think if we heard someone say, "we are so in love, we just want to shout it from the rooftops again", none of us would make a peep. But its never, ever that.

Its:
We wanted to get married before we had the money to have a big affair, and we missed out (on attention, gifts, showing off, whatever).
We needed to get married due to some insurmountable obstacle that only getting married will solve, and we now want to go back in time & change that decision.
It rained, or my mother got drunk, or we made it so inconvenient that everyone blew it off, and we want to try again.
Some absolutely miniscule thing went wrong, and my perfectionist self wants the opportunity to hit nirvana this repeat time.

But the part that frosts my cupcakes more than any other thing is that these people come HERE - calling it a second wedding. Well, NO, its not a second wedding, and it insults those who endured the pain and loss of a marriage, either through divorce or death. If you have been through that particular hell, you can have your PPD, right down to the last swarovski crystal, IMHO. ~Donna

annmariew825 · May 2012

People have a right to renewal of there vows because there things that happen beyon there control. I having a vow renewal to have my marriage blessed after 5 years because the first wedding bcause it is important to have this done for both of us. We are both 51 and there in no guantee that we both will be here to celebrate our 25 or 50 th. We would like to have family member member who could not be there for our first weddingto to be there to celeabrea our love.Nothing will ever take away from first wedding. If you want to renewal your wedding renwal your do it you are just celebrate.

right1thistime · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_about-these-vow-renewals?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:35Discussion:fa6099bb-965c-4eb7-862b-5a06ab0ecf50Post:808562ee-b288-4db7-94ee-f1cf4e33491a">Re: About these vow renewals ...</a>:
[QUOTE]People have a right to renewal of there vows because there things that happen beyon there control. I having a vow renewal to have my marriage blessed after 5 years because the first wedding bcause it is important to have this done for both of us. We are both 51 and there in no guantee that we both will be here to celebrate our 25 or 50 th. We would like to have family member member who could not be there for our first weddingto to be there to celeabrea our love.Nothing will ever take away from first wedding. If you want to renewal your wedding renwal your do it you are just celebrate.
Posted by annmariew825[/QUOTE]

So I think what you are saying, is that you are having a vow renewal at 5 years, right? I have no issue with that. But its not a second wedding, you shouldn't register, or have attendants, or have a full blown reception, or any other trappings. Have your family present, say your vows get your blessing, go out to eat or have a get together at your home, and voila- you are done. Who am I to judge your decision? Oh, yeah, I forgot, I judge everybody...<img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-innocent.gif" border="0" alt="Innocent" title="Innocent" />

boaznruth · May 2012

I guess I can understand a little better now. You're right...it isn't a second wedding.

However, I guess I still don't see why anyone else should be upset about people doing a vow renewal. Maybe they did have to rush to get married for one reason or another and friends and family that wanted to be there couldn't be there. Perhaps they have the support of those who will be attending and want to have a full ceremony now. Unless they're asking others to pay for it or bring them gifts, I guess I don't see what the harm in it is or why they should be pilloried for it.

I didn't have a shower for my first wedding and I'm not having one for this one. I wanted to elope on a beach, but altered my plans because there were some close friends and family who were disappointed that they couldn't be there.

If someone else, on the same day, is having a vow renewal that's bigger or fancier than my small wedding on the beach...I'm happy for them. It doesn't make what we're doing any less special. It doesn't take away from my day to let them enjoy theirs. My FI and I will be married just as much no matter what ceremonies anyone else has.

But then...I figure that I've made enough mistakes in my own life.

handfast4me · May 2012

Ruth, we're not upset that they're having a vow renewal--again, it's an entitlement and maturity thing. Rushing to the altar is a choice, except under very limited circumstances (deployment, for example--and yes, Retread, I know you don't agree, but until you've been married to someone who is active duty-then it's hard to imagine the life of a military dependant. And, once again, a veteran is not the same thing as active duty--take everything you've imagined it could be like, take away all the good stuff, multiply the bad stuff by about a million, and that's what REALLY being married to an active duty military member is like.)

And once again Ruth, you've used the term "full ceremony." WTF? Are you not getting it? If you're already married, then you've already had a "full ceremony."

I probably get more riled up than a lot of women because we were FORCED to do two ceremonies by the Christians in this country. Oh, yes. Freedom of religion exists in this country as long as you're Christian. What this country needs is a moment of SCIENCE.

boaznruth · May 2012

Yep...I am still not getting it. What someone else does just really doesn't effect me to that point.

As you mentioned the circumstances of a miliatary dependent, I absolutely agree that they have very good reasons for getting married and not being able to have a ceremony and then later having a vow renewal. Similarly, I would assume that there are other people who have unusual circumstances beyond just wanting to get it done right now or not wanting to wait to save up the money, etc. I just don't think it's my place to judge them for it. I haven't walked in their shoes.

I absolutely agree that if someone is doing it because their pictures didn't turn out just so or they didn't get to dance with whomever, or they're doing it to force people to buy them gifts or just to get attention, etc...THEN, yes...that is tacky beyond belief. However, if two people, already legally married, decide to spend their own money to have a vow renewal ceremony so that family and friends can celebrate with them, then I just can't see anything I should be angry about.

We are looking at having to have 2 ceremonies ourselves, one civil, one religious. That is due to a peculiarity of our own religion and it is likely we will not have anyone at the religious ceremony beyond those who have to be there to make it official. We opted to make our civil ceremony, which will come first, our day to celebrate with family and friends. I could see the logic, though, of someone opting to do the opposite and I wouldn't think any less of them for it. Nor would I think anything less of a couple who eloped or married in private for their own reasons later having a vow renewal with family and friends. It wouldnt' be a second wedding, as others have rightly pointed out, but I also don't see that it's anything to be upset about.

Not being a Christian myself, I feel your pain when it comes to the way everything in the US seems geared toward that religion and its traditions. This, however, I think, is a separate issue. Plus...some states are better than others. Down here in FL, any notary public can solemnize a marriage. We have handfastings and all other kinds of ceremonies down here, which I think is wonderful.

handfast4me · May 2012

Ruth, I had my legal ceremony in Florida. We were lucky that our officiant (arranged by our B&B) happened to be a Pagan, too, so incorporating of the cakes and ale, was agreeable to her. However, it would have been easier, and better for us, if my cousin, a High Priest, an his wife, a High Priestess in a coven here in GA, would have been able to legally perform the ceremony. We wanted someone we knew, and trusted, to perform the ceremony. Even though a notary is the only legal requirement in FL, that was not our desire. And most High Priestesses and High Priests won't perform the ceremony if you're not in their coven, just like most churches won't perform the ceremony unless you're in their church membership.

The rest of your post, well, I give up. No amount of explanation is going to give you he insight, I guess.

right1thistime · May 2012

If you look at it like the gay marriage argument, you are absolutely correct, what 2 consenting adults decide to do has absolutely no impact on my life, my marriage, my ceremony, my world.

And if the vow renewers decide to do it, I say whatever, have fun. But they DON'T just do it. They come here, and describe how their situation is different. How they had circumstances that made it necessary for them to go get married immediately. And how now they deserve to have all the things they chose to forgo, when they chose to get married quicker instead of waiting and saving the money until they could afford the party they think they deserve. ETA - it's like buying a car right now that you can afford instead of saving a while, and then complaining that you got ripped off because it doesn't have that best of everything. It's the entitlement that goes up my spine sideways. That and assuming that it qualifies as a Second Wedding. After 8 years, I've heard it all, and I can count on one hand the number of vow renewals that I think were justifiable. Certainly its my opinion, no one else's, but--I like to share.

This post started as an example of a beautiful & justifiable vow renewal.

Lisa50 · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_about-these-vow-renewals?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:35Discussion:fa6099bb-965c-4eb7-862b-5a06ab0ecf50Post:3097c536-ab82-4f81-89cb-068b9d848f2b">Re: About these vow renewals ...</a>:
[QUOTE]This post started as an example of a beautiful & justifiable vow renewal.
Posted by right1thistime[/QUOTE]

Amen, sister! Yes, it did. And honestly, I tried to word it so that no one would get their feathers ruffled or dare jump in and twist it into a grind about do-overs. I guess I know better now.

boaznruth · May 2012

It wasn't my intention to ruffle feathers...I just actually wanted to understand where others were coming from.

How dare I?

I think I do have a better idea of where this all comes from and I thank those who were patient enough to explain their positions.

@handfast4me - I'm sorry to hear that you couldn't have the officient you wanted. I wonder if they would have allowed clergy of another faith from out of state to perform a ceremony without being a registered notary public here in Florida. I guess I was naive enough to assume that they simple required anyone, clergy or not, regardless of faith, who solemnized a marriage to be a registered notary public here. I should have known Florida would not be so progressive. :P

handfast4me · May 2012

Thanks Ruth, I appreciate the thoughts. We were handfasted in Georgia where we live, and then legally married in FL. Our HPs couldn't have travelled, due to health issues, even if they would have allowed it in Florida. :-( It's the South--I love it somedays, but other days I don't like the culture of it.

boaznruth · May 2012

Ettiquette evolves and changes and, often, what was proper many years ago is now outdated. That's why Emily Post is sold in new editions.

Personally, I would have no problems with someone hurrying up and marrying legally before their beloved was depolyed and then having a vow renewal later, but then, we've also seen here where I really just don't have a problem with vow renewals in general. Life is short and full of suffering...any excuse to celebrate the happier moments in life, in my mind, is welcome so long as you don't expect others to foot the bill. Military spouses sacrifice a TON for our country and get little to no recognition for it. Even if they were held to a different standard in the past, does the fact that something was the custom in the past alone make it right for today?

I know I'm not perfect. I make mistakes all the time. I also know that I can never fully understand what it is like to live someone else's life. All that being the case, how can I judge someone else who chooses to do something, particularly when that something has no effect on my life?

To me...life is just too short to spend it worrying about what everyone else is doing rather than focusing on the things that bring me joy.

handfast4me · May 2012

Uh, Retread, I'm just saying that if you've never been married to an active duty soldier, it's hard to understand all the stuff that goes along with it. When you marry an active duty military member, then you can tell me how it was no different. Not until then.

I still wouldn't do it, but it's one of the only times I give a pass for a do-over. And, unlike during WWII, the JOPs aren't available 24/7. I have a friend who just got married last week--her new husband will be deployed in two days. They won't have a do-over, but it took them 3 weeks to get an appointment with a JOP! And as soon as they got their deployment date, they started calling around. It's a different time and era, Retread. Come to 2012. We're waiting for you here.

right1thistime · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_about-these-vow-renewals?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:35Discussion:fa6099bb-965c-4eb7-862b-5a06ab0ecf50Post:d128764d-1fa3-4ed3-af60-4f6e5cec087c">Re: About these vow renewals ...</a>:
[QUOTE] All that being the case, how can I judge someone else who chooses to do something, particularly when that something has no effect on my life? To me...life is just too short to spend it worrying about what everyone else is doing rather than focusing on the things that bring me joy.
Posted by boaznruth[/QUOTE]

I see it sort of like face tattoos. I wouldn't get one. I dislike them. If you tell me you are getting one, I will try to talk you out of it, and help you to see the impact it has on you and those around you. If you post your idea about doing it on a message board, I will disagree with you. However, I am not going to lobby for laws against it. I am not going to suggest the Supreme Court get involved. It doesn't impact my life enough to make me sacrifice anything to oppose it. But I like taking sides on issues, debating them and learning from other people's viewpoints. ~Donna

annie912 · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_about-these-vow-renewals?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:35Discussion:fa6099bb-965c-4eb7-862b-5a06ab0ecf50Post:c5af1d51-7f55-488f-9e38-ffb55b5b51a5">Re: About these vow renewals ...</a>:
[QUOTE]Handfast, I don't have to be married to someone who is presently deployed to understand that the couple feels that their occupation entitles them to special privileges. It's not a difficult concept to grasp. (Kind of like those parents who try to excuse their child's bratty behavior by telling people they didn't push a kid out their private, so they "can't understand"). They're as bound by etiquette as anyone else. Being military is no different. Generations of soldiers and spouses accepted that they could either marry now, or wait and have a big wedding later.....so the present generation's use of this as an entitlement excuse isn't valid today. There are a lot of older World War II brides out there who shake their heads over these do-overs.
Posted by RetreadBride[/QUOTE]

I think that's a tough analogy. If I'm in a restaurant with a bratty kid, then chances are he or she is having an impact on my ability to enjoy the dinner I am paying for. I think the point that is trying to be made here is really, what difference do those special priveldges make in your life? Chances are, none. Do I think do overs are tacky as hell? Yep. Would I try to talk a friend out of it, or even someone here on the knot? Yep. But, I can see some gray areas. I tend to cut people a little more slack when their choice of occupation involves protecting me and my country.

boaznruth · May 2012

Actually, in almost all those examples, I'd fully support the couple having a vow renewal ceremony. I'd even buy them a nice gift and show up in my nicest dress.

Who exactly makes these rules? Who are they to impose them on anyone else? Is there a committee of old ladies somewhere clucking their tongues and making these up? What, exactly, is the harm in any of these cases of letting these couples have a special day with friends and family?

I don't see how these "rules" are some kind of immutable law. They were made up by people and they can be broken just as easily by people. Until you can show me where they are codified in legal statutues or some form of religious scripture, to me, they are merely guidelines and guidelines nearly always have exceptions.

If a woman kicks cancer's backside, I say let her pay for her own vow renewal if she wants it. If a soldier makes it back from the hell that is Afganistan and his wife survives the hell that is waiting for him, not knowing if he's alive or dead and they want to pay for a party with their nearest and dearest to celebrate their marriage, I say go for it. If a couple make it through the unthinkable tradgedy of the death of their child, something no parent should suffer, and want to celebrate their love, which has survived that trauma, I say let them eat cake.

...and I really don't see any of this as "bad behavior." As long as they're paying for it themselves and not requesting gifts...I see it as a celebration of something far too rare in this world...love and commitment. I think we could do with more bad behavior of that type.

right1thistime · May 2012

Are you implying that anyone who disagrees with you is an "old lady"?

In each of Retread's scenarios I would not be so adamant about opposing the vow renewal. I would still probably not do it myself. My opposition is way more vigorous for the people that insist on getting married right this very minute, rather than waiting & saving to have their PPD. Then 2 years, 4 months, 1 week & 3 days later they feel ripped off because the 172 relatives went to cousin Lou's wedding, and gave gifts, and only 16 of them sent a check after the OP's all of a sudden wedding. So they convince themself that they were a victim of circumstances beyond their control, and thus they deserve to plan a PPD, and those 156 other relatives better pony up. They have selective amnesia about making choices. ~Donna

boaznruth · May 2012

No, I'm not implying that anyone who disagrees with me is old...that is silly. I'm just picturing a committee of old women who have little better to do than make up rules for these sorts of things. I mean really, seriously, who does write the "rules" and by what authority?

I'm not arguing about people who are selfish and do a vow renewal soon after a rushed wedding for attention or gifts. What I am arguing is that there are circumstances where I'd be happy to see someone do a vow renewal, even a year or two after their wedding, depending on the circumstances and, really, unless it effects us personally...who are we to judge?

I'm not having a wedding party, bachelorette, shower, or registry for my wedding, simply because those things aren't important to me. Having my closest friends and family there is. I can imagine for some people for whom life gets in the way of sharing that with those closest to them, that they might feel the same and want a vow renewal just for that purpose...to share a celebration of their relationship with those closest to them. I'm lucky enough that my FI and I are both healthy and neither of us are in danger and we can have that day with our close friends and family on our wedding day. I won't begrudge others, though, who aren't as lucky for various reasons similar to those stated by RetreadBride.

Besides, life has enough sad occasions and far too few reasons to celebrate. I wouldn't begrudge another couple theirs.

Lisa50 · May 2012

boaznruth ... way to put a complete damper on a post about a wonderful couple renewing their vows after 67 years of marriage, thanks.

boaznruth · May 2012

@Lisa50 - Just vote me off the island, I guess.

I'm pretty sure that the couple married for 67 years could care less what I think about vow renewals...or much else for that matter and are just as happy regardless.

boaznruth · May 2012

@Lisa50 - Just vote me off the island, I guess.

I'm pretty sure that the couple married for 67 years could care less what I think about vow renewals...or much else for that matter and are just as happy regardless.

dbozeman1 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_about-these-vow-renewals?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:35Discussion:fa6099bb-965c-4eb7-862b-5a06ab0ecf50Post:e37cad0c-e45d-42d4-b1c0-16d4ef6363ed">Re: About these vow renewals ...</a>:
[QUOTE]Ruth, I think if we heard someone say, "we are so in love, we just want to shout it from the rooftops again", none of us would make a peep. But its never, ever that. Its: We wanted to get married before we had the money to have a big affair, and we missed out (on attention, gifts, showing off, whatever). We needed to get married due to some insurmountable obstacle that only getting married will solve, and we now want to go back in time & change that decision. It rained, or my mother got drunk, or we made it so inconvenient that everyone blew it off, and we want to try again. Some absolutely miniscule thing went wrong, and my perfectionist self wants the opportunity to hit nirvana this repeat time. But the part that frosts my cupcakes more than any other thing is that these people come HERE - calling it a second wedding. Well, NO, its not a second wedding, and it insults those who endured the pain and loss of a marriage, either through divorce or death. If you have been through that particular hell, you can have your PPD, right down to the last swarovski crystal, IMHO. ~Donna
Posted by right1thistime[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>So tell me if this is enough reason for you:</div><div>My husband and I had plans to get married the way we wanted years ago but "crap happened" as it has been so rudely put to many times in all these threads. Now our only income went to hell when my husband had a herniated disk so bad that he had to have immediately sugery to fix the bones that were rubbing together or I would spend a long freaking time trying to move him and carry him. Now with things finally getting a float and him winning his case we are making plans to do things THE WAY WE WANTED TO the first time. I don't expected anything but I am going to do it up like it was my first time. Shower and all!!! The only difference is I am not doing any registering or anything like I would have the first time. If family decide to give an anniversary gift or something then it's up to them but even when it was the first time I wasn't asking for anything. Now what all these rude people need to realize is that every situation is not "I didn't get it the first time NO, like one of the other people said things happen that couldn't be changed or controled. Giving an opinion does not give you people the right to be rude, hateful or down right stupid!

</div>

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