Need to vent...

Re: Need to vent...

• Danaz1 member

  

  July 2009 edited December 2011

  I would look for another Rabbi if I were you. You want someone who reflects both you and your fiances values. You don't want your fiance to feel uncomfortable.

  

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• slbriz34

  

  July 2009 edited December 2011

  Ditto; the rabbi is within his right to say what he did but if you have a vision for certain things and want a pleasant experience, then I'd look for another rabbi.  There are plenty out there and then you can have the ketubah you want - which, under the circumstances, would just be a symbolic reminder (as opposed to any binding contract under Jewish law).

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• emily.skazer

  

  July 2009 edited December 2011

  We're looking for a rabbi for our wedding right now. We are getting married in Connecticut, on the shoreline. Who did you choose for your wedding, can I ask? I attended a wedding for a good friend recently where the bride told me that the rabbi, unbeknownst to her, called up the ketubah artist and worked with her to change the wording in Hebrew to make it acceptable, without causing her any pain. It turned out the ketubah artist wasn't Jewish and didn't know Hebrew, so the rabbi's help was invaluable. The rabbi told told my friend that the only valid language for a ketubah was either Hebrew or Aramaic (sp?) and that what it says in English doesn't matter, so they could write anything they wanted in English, but that the Hebrew or Aramaic text had to be just right. Em

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• hbarbour member

  

  July 2009 edited December 2011

  Ugh. I totally feel for you. Interfaith marriage is tough, sticky stuff for American Jewish clergy and the families that they work with. My parents have one and in about 5-6 weeks, so will I. Things can get a bit weird and it's hard not to take it all personally. I understand your rationale, but your rabbi has reasons too (and might be more than happy to talk to you about them in person as opposed to over an email where tone can be easy to distort). My understanding of that language is it's time honored, symbolic, heavy duty stuff that is used when one Jew is marrying another Jew (no matter how Jewish your non Jewish FI is in his heart and actions). But maybe there are progressive rabbis out there with a more liberal interpretation. If this is a make or break for you, then maybe you should look around for another officiant. But there are some lovely interfaith texts out there (or you can write your own!) and if you really want that rabbi to marry you, then you are going to have to find some way to work in the guidelines he's giving you. Good luck!!

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• 2dBride member

  

  July 2009 edited December 2011

  It seems like he's making you play 20 questions--you're supposed to pick an interfaith ketubah, but if the interfaith ketubah mentions the traditions of Moses and Israel, you're supposed to guess that he doesn't mean that one.  It is also odd in the sense that it is unclear why a rabbi would marry you if he felt like what you are doing would violate both the laws and the traditions of Moses and Israel.  (A lot of rabbis will not perform interfaith marriages, which I can understand and respect, but it seems odd to say that he will perform them but then insist that all references to the religion be removed.)If you still want to work with him, I would ask him for suggestions on specific language you could use.  If you are getting the sense that he will perform your marriage only reluctantly and with open disapproval, maybe it is time to find a different rabbi.  Certainly, our rabbi (also in the Boston area) has been much easier to deal with.

  
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• amybw

  

  July 2009 edited December 2011

  Thanks for your advice girls!  Yes, it does seem odd that he is willing to perform the ceremony, but now seems to have a lot of restrictions.  I know its a hard to find a rabbi that will perform "interfaith" ceremonies, but i'm not asking him to perform with another officiant, like a minister or anything.  2dbride - who is your rabbi?  i definitely had a hard time finding one in MA that would officiate our ceremony.

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• emily.skazer

  

  July 2009 edited December 2011

  I've been researching this for a couple of years, ever since my FI proposed to me. Interfaith marriages are not Jewish marriages. That's what the rabbis I've been interviewing have told me, generally. The reason that many rabbis will not perform intermarriages is that these are not considered Jewish weddings, which these rabbis would perform and have self-limited themselves to doing.. An intermarriage can be done by a rabbi who agrees to perform weddings outside the Jewish purview, which any rabbi technically could do, since by the laws of most states, a rabbi is a legal officiant for any wedding (in Canada it's different). So there are rabbis who will do intermarriages, but few will technically agree to the "charade" that it's a Jewish marriage (but there are some who will agree to go along with an interfaith couples charade to fool themselves into believing that their marriage is a traditional Jewish marriage). From an actual writer of ketubah texts, an Iraqi Jew in Florida who writes the content for many ketubah vendors who sell ketubahs, Orthodox and not: If a ketubah text mentions the words "the traditions/laws of Moses and Israel," then it's not supposed to be used for an interfaith wedding. Interfaith content shouldn't mention these terms and usually replaces them with something like "the traditions in this area" or something similar. If a couple still wants to get content that mentions the traditions or laws of Moses and Israel, they can, but the document's terms will be false and the agreement is invalid as far as Jewish law and traditions are concerned, as is the marriage in any event, despite what the ketubah may or may not say. The rabbi I'm considering right now opened up his laptop at our initial meeting and went through the various ketubah texts with us, reading and translating the Hebrew and/or Aramaic for us and explaining what each phrase meant in context. I learned a lot about ketubahs from him that I couldn't find out online. He also called the Iraqi scribe I mentioned above and asked him about creating a custom text, which the scribe said was agreeable to him. So I know that variations are allowed and can be do for you. Em

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• amybw

  

  July 2009 edited December 2011

  Emily - thanks for the information.  You definitely have done a lot of research.  If you want, send me your email, and i can let you know the Rabbi that we are using.  And also, if you have come up with a particular text that is approved of.

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• emily.skazer

  

  July 2009 edited December 2011

  I don't know how to send you a message on the knot. Everything on the knot seems so confused and jumbled up - it's hard to find what you're looking for. I couldn't find a help page to find out how to do this.

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• ErinAndLeo member

  

  August 2009 edited December 2011

  I agree.  Find another officiant, preferably a Rabbi, who will respect YOUR wishes for the most important day of your life (except for having a child!).

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• emily.skazer

  

  August 2009 edited December 2011

  Who are the rabbi(s) you are using? rsvp emily.skazer@gmail.com

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