I'm conflicted and need some opinions (kind of long, sorry)

ChiGirl2013 · June 2012

As most of you know, we've been engaged since 2008 so I've had a LOT of time to plan this wedding. And I've developed a vision that gives us a very personalized intimate wedding that we will remember forever, while not being too pretentious and over the top that it triggers my anxiety disorder any more than it has to. The wedding will be fairly informal, relaxed, and geared towards family - who will make up 95% of our guests. Family has ALWAYS been important to both of us and we want to reflect that.

My vision (which df is fine with) is to not even have a bridal party. We're doing a destination wedding with a max of 60 guests and I'd rather be able to see everyone sitting in the chairs rather than standing up behind/next to us. The only exception is that df's and my dd (who will be almost 6 at the time we get married) will be our flower girl. This is the way I've always seen it in my vision.

Well, my niece is now 7 and will have just turned 8 when we get married. She is very outspoken with the family, but doesn't have much self-confidence with kids her own age. She has very few friends. She has been BEGGING to be our 2nd flower girl for about a year now. I really don't want a 2nd flower girl, but I know it will absolutely crush her if I say no. Plus, she is on the bigger side and in order to get her a dress to match dd's bird-like figure, I will either have to have them made or go to a bridal shop.... and I didn't want to spend that much money. I was just going to put dd in a nice Easter-type dress that matches our colors.

And, if I'm being honest, I really wanted dd to be our only flower girl. I wanted her to have that special memory and the "position of honor" all to herself. Very few kids get to be part of their parents' wedding and I wanted this to be a special opportunity for her, not one that she has to share with her cousins.

My niece also has a younger brother almost the same age as dd. (They were born just 3 days apart.) If I have her in the wedding party, I can't exclude him. So that would be 3 kids in the WP and no adults. Is that odd? He would do fine as a ring bearer.

I could offer to have my niece do something else, but if her brother is IN the wedding and she's not, she's going to have an absolute fit and a half. (Yes, she throws tantrums like a 3 year old when she doesn't get her way, but is sweet as pie when she's happy.) I was thinking of asking her to hold one of those "Here comes the bride" signs. I hadn't planned on having one, but it would be a nice compromise, right? Or, I fell in love with something VERY sweet that I found on etsy:

Would it be OK to have 1 flower girl, 1 ring bearer, and one 8 year old girl carrying a sign, even if we don't have an adult wedding party? It's not what I envisioned, but at the same time, I find it really hard to break a child's heart. Tell me what you would do.....

Spunky414 · June 2012

I would not give in to a 7 year olds demands about how my and my FI's wedding should be. Everyone does not get a special part in everything and "guest" is an honor too. Her parents should have a talk with her that it's impolite to demand a position of honor.

That being said, does she really want to do this or have her parents given her the idea? Would her parents be happy to pay for special clothing for the kids in addition to the cost of attending a destination wedding?

The kids dresses don't need to match exactly and it's perfectly fine to have kids in the wedding and no adults but you've answered your own question. You really just want your daughter involved and that's ok.

Blondy214 · June 2012

Sounds like a tough situation. Honestly, I think that you should do what you want and that your wedding should be what you envisioned. If you don't want your niece/nephew to be a apart of the wedding, then you should talk to their parents about it. I agree with PP that her parents should talk to her about how its not polite to ask you to be in the wedding.

I completely understand only wanting your daughter to be apart of the actual wedding, and I don't think that you should give up your vision to make other people happy.

If you do decide for all 3 of them to participate, then I think its perfectly fine to have your daughter as the FG, niece to carry the sign, and nephew to be the RB.

Christine9866 · June 2012

I agree with PP, go with your gut and what you have been planning on doing the entire time! If you do decide to have them all in the wedding your idea would work out fine.

vk2204 · June 2012

Is she YOUR niece, or your FI's? I am curious to know what her parents say about this. Are they insisting that she be FG too? Also, how does your FI feel about it?

I have a few different opinions right now, but I would like to know those answers before I throw it all out there!

erbear84 · June 2012

In general, I don't think all-children WP's are weird. That's pretty common in England. So in theory, I wouldn't have a problem with what you described. However, this has to be what YOU want - not what the little girl or her parents want.

ChiGirl2013 · June 2012

My FI honestly doesn't have many opinions on the wedding, aside from the food. lol He could care less if we have nobody standing up, or if every single guest is part of the wedding party. I guess, to guys, stuff like that just isn't as important as it is to brides. He told me to do whatever makes me happy.

My niece very much wants to be in the wedding. It's my sister's child, and my sister has said that she is fine with my decision either way. However, my sister always gives in to my niece so that she doesn't have to deal with the tantrums. I don't condone it, but she's not my child and it's not my place to reprimand her for the tantrums. I love my niece and my sister dearly, but the kids run that house and my sister - for whatever reason - refuses to step in and fix it or change it. My brother in law works 80 hours a week and is hardly ever home so he leaves things like this up to my sister. I guarantee you, my sister will NOT sit my niece down and have a chat about politeness, etc. My niece is not DEMANDING to be in the wedding, and nobody is INSISTING on anything. She is just very excited, wants to be in the wedding, and keeps asking about it. She has never said "I'm your flower girl" or "I have to be in your wedding." She has just made her wishes known and is hoping that I will ask her. I have told her that I haven't decided on anything yet.

It is normal for kids that age to have trouble remembering to filter their thoughts before speaking. My niece doesn't always think before she speaks, and it's hard for a 7 year old to put themselves in someone else's shoes (ie to realize that even though SHE would like to be in the wedding, it may not coincide with what FI and I want for our wedding.) Yes, my niece can be a little stinker, but the way she is talking about the wedding is different. It's more excitement and the lack of filter than her being demanding/bratty. I'm actually surprised that she stopped at simply volunteering to be a flower girl and waiting for me to ask her, because ordinarily she would just assume she's in the wedding and start refereing to herself as our 2nd flower girl. She's not doing that.

My sister says she is fine with paying for a dress, because she knows my plan to just get a simple Easter-type dress, and she'd have to buy my niece a dress to wear to the wedding anyway. So it really wouldn't be an added expense for her. However, I am kind of (OK, VERY) OCD about things matching. To have the girls in 2 different dresses just wouldn't sit well with me. I wish I wasn't like that, but I am. (Many people with anxiety disorders also have OCD to some extent, because having things a particular way, in their eyes, helps keep the anxiety at bay. When certain things aren't the "right" way for someone with an anxiety disorder, it actually triggers anxiety attacks.) I know I will already be a wreck on my wedding day because I have anxiety attacks just leaving my apartment, much less flying to another state and being in the center of attention. I know I have the ability to make it through the wedding, but would like to avoid anything else that could potentially be stressful. I don't want to have to resort to being doped up on Ativan and not be able to remember my wedding day.

I guess I'm trying to weigh which would be less stressful - having all 3 kids in the wedding (which wasn't my original plan) or breaking my niece's heart by telling her no (which WOULD make me feel bad) and risking that she will have a major tantrum on my wedding day that my sister will ignore.

skl14 · June 2012

An all child wedding party would be cute. You could also try to give your neice another "job" like handing out programs or holding the sign. However, I don't think you should let a 7 year old bully you into doing something that you don't want. Explain it to her parents and let them deal with her tantrums. If giving your daughter her own role in the wedding is important, then stick to your guns.

vk2204 · June 2012

If your FI doesn't care, and your sister isn't putting any added pressure on you, I would just stick with your original plan.

But the next time your niece brings it up, I would let her down gently, so she at least isn't waiting around assuming you will ask. Let her throw a tantrum now instead of at the wedding. It seems you have to do damage control because your sister won't, so I would definitely do it ahead of time.

redjellybean128 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-club-boards_april-2013-weddings_im-conflicted-and-need-some-opinions-kind-of-long-sorry?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20Club%20BoardsForum:820178d7-4f43-4671-bcab-c5c2c01eef1eDiscussion:e5ba1729-da02-40fb-9443-c4208e9801d9Post:880ff7ad-18e6-426a-837a-071c2b224f0c">Re: I'm conflicted and need some opinions (kind of long, sorry)</a>:
[QUOTE]An all child wedding party would be cute. You could also try to give your neice another "job" like handing out programs or holding the sign. However, I don't think you should let a 7 year old bully you into doing something that you don't want. Explain it to her parents and let them deal with her tantrums. If giving your daughter her own role in the wedding is important, then stick to your guns.
Posted by skl14[/QUOTE]

<div>I agree with this completely. Maybe your neice and nephew can hand out programs or a similar job. When I was young, I handed out bubbles for after the ceremony at one of my cousin's weddings. That way they are included but your daughter still has her own special role.</div>

vk2204 · June 2012

I wouldn't give your niece (or anyone else for that matter) a job, I don't think you could depend on her. Like you, I get ridiculously anxious and I would be worrying whether or not she would throw a fit if something doesn't go her way.

Again, stick with your plan. But tell her ASAP.

dandelionsgirl · June 2012

I am also having my DD as my flower girl. I agree that it will be a very special memory for her and I would not want that taken away. I would tell your niece that just your DD will be in the wedding because it is about your immediate family. If she gets upset ask her and her brother about the programs.

nay1984 · June 2012

what about having your niece has a jr bridesmaid..so not wearing a white dress so it doesnt take away from the FG.

ChiGirl2013 · June 2012

One of my friends actually suggested jr. bridesmaid as well. However, I've always disliked the concept of a jr. bridesmaid. I mean, they're not a bridesmaid because they're not old/mature enough to do things like attend the b-party, help host a shower, give constructive criticism on dress choices, etc. So why call them a bridesmaid if they can't fulfill any bridesmaid duties? So, basically, they'll be a flower girl, just with a different title. Plus, since we won't have any bridesmaids, I think it would kind of odd to call her a jr. bridesmaid.

I think I've decided what to do. I picked out the outfit I would want my nephew to wear - black dress pants, white dress shirt, black shoes (she can get these anywhere, and it would probably be close to what she would have bought him to wear anyway) and then black suspenders, a bow tie, and a snap bill/newsboy hat. THAT will freak her out, make her think her son will look like a total idiot and she'll refuse to let him be in the wedding. She knows she'll have problems if one is in the wedding and not the other, so that will solve my problem. I hope. If not, I'll just have to tell her how it is and let her deal with the screaming fits.

Christine9866 · June 2012

    Hang in there!!! It will all work out in the end, just think positive thoughts... It stinks when we get put in the situations because the littliest thing can cause sooo much stress.
    My niece who is a flower girl in the wedding right after FI and I got engaged (shes now 6) kept asking me am I going to be in your wedding, or am i going to be your flower girl and she also kept on asking my sister in law and brother. It was just out of excitement on her part, and we had all intentions from the time we had gotten engaged that my niece and nephew would be in the wedding. I just laughed at it and said you will find out, because I wanted to ask her in a special way. Shes is just funny now, my sister in law tells me that she talks about it all the time, how when they go to the mall she wants to look at mini heels and dresses... shes even told me that she def. wants to wear white, and a tiara!!! I just nicely say that I have a beautiful dress picked out for her, and that we will go shopping for hair accessories together! she is sooo funny, and a little diva herself!

synapseed · June 2012

There is nothing weird about your wedding party: it is who you love and care about.

While I don't think bowing to the wishes of a 7 year old is wise, you did mention how important family is to you and your DF. If you feel this little girl is someone that will be important to you throughout the rest of your life beyond the wedding, giving her that small role is not really bending to her will but more a gesture towards your relationship with family. Plus, I'm sure everyone will appreciate deflecting a meltdown. I think you can include her while preserving your vision, and maybe even adding to it.

My sister has many children (12) and I cannot include all of them in the wedding party, even if I wanted to. Instead of saying "you can't be in my wedding party" to your neice and nephew, tell them what they can do: Being "junior ushers": handing out programs, bubbles or rice, if those are going to be thrown.

I actually really like your idea of an "announcer/sign holder". It won't take away from your daughter & gives your niece a specific role that ends before the whole wedding party is assembled at the altar for the ceremony itself. This role keeps you from having her have to stand with you at the altar therefore eliminating the need for her and your daughter to have matching dresses since they are not both flower girls. Ushers usually don't match the wedding party exactly, (usually to differentiate between groomsmen and ushers) but since your sister already said she was going to buy a dress, you can ask her to work with your style choice (an usher dress?). At any rate she can go sit with her parents after holding the sign & keeping the remaining portion of your ceremony vision intact & keep the tantrum at bay.

just my 2 cents

shipsinthenight · June 2012

I don't think suggesting an outfit your sister probably won't approve of in order to get around the issue is unwise. I understand it may be less stressfull for you, but it screams of deception to me, and that, I don't like. Like many other people, I agree that giving into your niece, while it may deflect some tantrums now, is not wise. Even if your sister, her mother, is unwilling to teach her how to properly conduct herself, both publicly and privately, she needs to start learning. I feel that, as a family member, you can help do this. It may not work for you, with the level of anxiety you described, but if I were you, I would sit her down and explain the situation. Here's how I would probably put it.

"Dearest niece of mine, come have a chat with me. Now I know that you are very excited about my wedding, and I'm very happy that you are. You are getting to be such a grown up young lady, and I don't want you to get upset, even though this may not be what you wanted. Part of getting older is that we don't always get our way. I know that is a difficult idea for you. We all love you very much, and would like to always give you what you want, but sometimes it's just not possible. For my wedding, since I am the bride, I get to make a lot of choices, and have a lot of things my way. So does my fiancee. Since we are getting married, we have to make the choices together. So even though we love you, and we know you would like to be a flower girl, we have decided to just have our daughter be the flower girl. This way the wedding is just about me, her dad, and her, the three of us as a family. We still want you to know how important you are to us; there are just a few children invited, and you are one of them! I know this may hurt your feelings a little, but I want you to know that I love you and that you are very special to me."

Hopefully, framing dissapointment this way will help avoid a tantrum. Behaving yourself is a grown up thing, and most kids want to be like grown ups. This is also something I would suggest to your sister. A seven year old should already know better than to throw a tantrum, especially in public. I know in some families and cultures it's not ok to offer parenting advice...But sometimes it really needs to be done. Sometimes it is for safety reasons, like when I saw a woman get yelled at for suggesting someone else's children not play on the escelator. That was a safety issue. Or when I end up parenting the kids in my choir...no pouting, no hitting, no rudeness, eat a meal when that's the food being provided...These are things everyone needs to learn, and sometimes it just takes a village. Some parents are offended by that, but I don't think they should be. There's a big difference between insisting on proper public behavior, especially if you are a family member or an authority figure, than hitting someone else's child. Somehow, there are far too many people that think if you suggest good behavior to a child you are criticizing their parenting. This says much more about the fact that the parent feels subconsciously inadequate in their parenting than it does about you. Again, this may be totally outside of either your comfort zone, or what you consider the realm of possibility, but it's what I would do.

vk2204 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-club-boards_april-2013-weddings_im-conflicted-and-need-some-opinions-kind-of-long-sorry?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding Club BoardsForum:820178d7-4f43-4671-bcab-c5c2c01eef1eDiscussion:e5ba1729-da02-40fb-9443-c4208e9801d9Post:7ba232fe-b9b5-4caa-8883-4318592be361">Re: I'm conflicted and need some opinions (kind of long, sorry)</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>I don't think suggesting an outfit your sister probably won't approve of in order to get around the issue is unwise. I understand it may be less stressfull for you, but it screams of deception to me, and that, I don't like.</strong> Like many other people, I agree that giving into your niece, while it may deflect some tantrums now, is not wise. Even if your sister, her mother, is unwilling to teach her how to properly conduct herself, both publicly and privately, she needs to start learning. I feel that, as a family member, you can help do this. It may not work for you, with the level of anxiety you described, but if I were you, I would sit her down and explain the situation. Here's how I would probably put it. "Dearest niece of mine, come have a chat with me. Now I know that you are very excited about my wedding, and I'm very happy that you are. You are getting to be such a grown up young lady, and I don't want you to get upset, even though this may not be what you wanted. Part of getting older is that we don't always get our way. I know that is a difficult idea for you. We all love you very much, and would like to always give you what you want, but sometimes it's just not possible. For my wedding, since I am the bride, I get to make a lot of choices, and have a lot of things my way. So does my fiancee. Since we are getting married, we have to make the choices together. So even though we love you, and we know you would like to be a flower girl, we have decided to just have our daughter be the flower girl. This way the wedding is just about me, her dad, and her, the three of us as a family. We still want you to know how important you are to us; there are just a few children invited, and you are one of them! I know this may hurt your feelings a little, but I want you to know that I love you and that you are very special to me." Hopefully, framing dissapointment this way will help avoid a tantrum. Behaving yourself is a grown up thing, and most kids want to be like grown ups. This is also something I would suggest to your sister. A seven year old should already know better than to throw a tantrum, especially in public. I know in some families and cultures it's not ok to offer parenting advice...But sometimes it really needs to be done. Sometimes it is for safety reasons, like when I saw a woman get yelled at for suggesting someone else's children not play on the escelator. That was a safety issue. Or when I end up parenting the kids in my choir...no pouting, no hitting, no rudeness, eat a meal when that's the food being provided...These are things everyone needs to learn, and sometimes it just takes a village. Some parents are offended by that, but I don't think they should be. There's a big difference between insisting on proper public behavior, especially if you are a family member or an authority figure, than hitting someone else's child. Somehow, there are far too many people that think if you suggest good behavior to a child you are criticizing their parenting. This says much more about the fact that the parent feels subconsciously inadequate in their parenting than it does about you. Again, this may be totally outside of either your comfort zone, or what you consider the realm of possibility, but it's what I would do.
Posted by shipsinthenight[/QUOTE]

I agree with you on that. You are not helping your niece learn if you are using your nephew/sister as a way to keep her out of the wedding.

Also regarding the JR Bridesmaid thing - I plan on asking my cousins who will be 9 and 7 for my wedding to stand up. I am giving them the option to be whatever they want; flower girls, ridesmaids, or any name they come up with. I don't care that they can't host anything, no one is required to do that anyways. I don't care if they can't attend all of my parites, they are 2 of my most favorite little girls and I just want them to be there with me on my wedding day.

Don't give your niece a job, those are not fun. Do what YOU want. You cannot please everyone. But I strongly recommend talking to her ASAP and like ships said, take charge and be the adult and everything will work out for ya! Your niece may actually appreciate it, and come to you for guidance other things as she gets older.

Christine9866 · June 2012

My nephew is turning 8 this month, and will be a junior groomsman in our wedding. I just thought it was babyish to ask him to be a ringbearer.
I think the whole junior bridesmaid/groomsman came about because theres always that awkward stage where there not yet at the age to be a bridesmaid or groomsman and too old to be a ringbearer or flowergirl... well thats the way I look at it. In knowing my nephew I just think he is at the age where a ringbearer is def. too babyish for him. I also think that at that age they don't know all the duties of a bridal party and it isn't expected from anyone for them to take on any jobs etc. If you are not having a bridal party and do not go the junior BP route I think just kids in the wedding party is a cute idea, but not worth it if it is going to cause you major stress....I would stick to your plan, and let you niece down gently. I hope it works out for you!

ChiGirl2013 · June 2012

OF COURSE I know that none of the pre-wedding parties are REQUIRED. I'm actually not having a shower or a b-party, so that wouldn't matter anyway. I was just listing the "typical" things that bridesmaids do, and stating the fact that an 8 year old can't do most of them - which is why I, personally, don't understand the point of giving them that title. Other peoples' opinions may differ, of course. Those are just my personal feelings.

I did not choose an outfit for the ring bearer based on what my sister wouldn't like, just so she would say no to having the kids in the wedding. I chose what *I* thought was absolutely adorable, and I knew from the moment that I saw it that she would hate it. She and I have VERY different taste when it comes to clothes - we always have. Last night, I emailed her a pic of the outfit and simply wrote "If we have a ring bearer, this is what I'm thinking in terms of an outfit. What do you think?" She wrote back that she didn't like it, and that her son would look stupid in a bowtie and suspenders. Pretty much what I expected her to say.

I don't have the option of talking to my niece calmly and privately. They live several hours away and the only time I see them is at major family funcations. And while ships' wording is great and very sensitive, it would still cause her to throw an ever-loving fit because she isn't getting what she wants. And I'm not the type to instigate something like at a major family function. I will have to talk to my sister and see what she feels is best. If she wants me to tell her, it will have to be over the phone and my sister will just have to deal with the tantrum on her end - but I won't cause a scene at a family function over something like this.

Rotten, rotten, rotten situation. But thank you, everyone, for your opinions. I know it will all work out in the end.

vk2204 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-club-boards_april-2013-weddings_im-conflicted-and-need-some-opinions-kind-of-long-sorry?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding Club BoardsForum:820178d7-4f43-4671-bcab-c5c2c01eef1eDiscussion:e5ba1729-da02-40fb-9443-c4208e9801d9Post:671abfcf-68f6-4cd6-8046-0f458d50b5e7">Re: I'm conflicted and need some opinions (kind of long, sorry)</a>:
[QUOTE]OF COURSE I know that none of the pre-wedding parties are REQUIRED. I'm actually not having a shower or a b-party, so that wouldn't matter anyway. I was just listing the "typical" things that bridesmaids do, and stating the fact that an 8 year old can't do most of them - which is why I, personally, don't understand the point of giving them that title. Other peoples' opinions may differ, of course. Those are just my personal feelings. I did not choose an outfit for the ring bearer based on what my sister wouldn't like, just so she would say no to having the kids in the wedding. I chose what *I* thought was absolutely adorable, and I knew from the moment that I saw it that she would hate it. She and I have VERY different taste when it comes to clothes - we always have. Last night, I emailed her a pic of the outfit and simply wrote "If we have a ring bearer, this is what I'm thinking in terms of an outfit. What do you think?" She wrote back that she didn't like it, and that <strong>her son would look stupid in a bowtie and suspenders.</strong> Pretty much what I expected her to say. I don't have the option of talking to my niece calmly and privately. They live several hours away and the only time I see them is at major family funcations. And while ships' wording is great and very sensitive, it would still cause her to throw an ever-loving fit because she isn't getting what she wants. And I'm not the type to instigate something like at a major family function. I will have to talk to my sister and see what she feels is best. If she wants me to tell her, it will have to be over the phone and my sister will just have to deal with the tantrum on her end - but I won't cause a scene at a family function over something like this. Rotten, rotten, rotten situation. But thank you, everyone, for your opinions. I know it will all work out in the end.
Posted by ChiGirl2013[/QUOTE]

That is crazy talk, every one looks good in suspenders!

good2Bqueen13 · June 2012

I know I'm coming into this late, but this is pretty near and dear to me so I really want to put my thoughts out here. I really, really hope you will go with your initial thought of having only your family (you, FI, DD) standing at the altar. It is so poignent and symbolic and a beautiful way of displaying your unity as not a couple, but as a family. You are right for wanting your DD to feel special on this day and she should need to share it with another flower girl or even a ring bearer.

That said, I think it would be cute to have your niece and nephew walk down the aisle ahead of you with the sign tied with ribbon between them (one on one side of the sign holding a string and one on the other holding up the other side). And upon walking down the aisle, they could turn and sit with their family, who I assume would be sitting in one of the pews near the front. The other option I would consider, though they would likely need supervision, would be to have one of the children hand out programs and the other hand out whatever you will be using for your grand exit (if you plan to have one).

I'm conflicted and need some opinions (kind of long, sorry)

Re: I'm conflicted and need some opinions (kind of long, sorry)

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