Catholic pagan FI and UU B need officiant thats catholic-ish

BrClktor · May 2011

My FI is considered Catholic but prefers pagan rituals. I'm Baptist born, think Agnostic, converted to Unitarian Universalist. My fiance has a very specific request and I don't understand his religion enough to really get it. He wants an officiant that is considered catholic or something along those lines so that God recognizes the marriage. We aren't having the ceremony in a catholic church and I am not willing to say things in the ceremony which I don't believe in. I personally don't think we will be able to find such a request since no priest is willing to step out of the church. Would a Justice of the Peace work for what he's requesting?

[Deleted User] · May 2011

You are correct in that a Catholic priest will not marry you outside of the Church. You are also correct in not agreeing to a ceremony for things you do not believe in and will not practice in your everyday lives.

You might try asking an Epicopalian priest/minister as that is the Anglican church of the Catholic Church if that makes sense to you. Other than that, you may have to find a non-denominational preacher that will customize your ceremony to suit you and your FI's needs and beliefs. You could even try writing your own vows.

artbyallie · May 2011

I think you need to clarify what your fiancé wants. What does it mean to him to be 'recognized by God'? It sounds like having a marriage recognized by the Catholic Church is not an option for you, since as mentioned, that would require a wedding by a priest in the church and that is not what you want. A UU minister would probably be willing to perform your ceremony as you want it; would that be okay with him?

MairePoppy · May 2011

Why does your fi think that God only recognizes marriages performed by Catholic priests? I think there are many people of different religions that will differ with your fi on that point.

Try googling the Independent Catholic Church, Independent Catholic Priests, Old Catholic Church of America. You may be a able to find a priest from one of those churches that will perform a marriage ceremony that will include Roman Catholic prayers and bible readings. The marriage will not be recognized by the Roman Catholic Church, but if neither of you are practicing Roman Catholics, does it matter?

[Deleted User] · May 2011

I wonder what he wants that a Unitarian minister can't do? I also think it's weird that he thinks a priest has to do it for God to recognize it. Sounds like that statement might need some clarification since he's not a devout Catholic. Perhaps that's not exactly what he meant?

meep2 · May 2011

I don't get this. When you say "he is considered" Catholic, do you mean he was baptised/confirmed and now is moving toward paganism, or that he considers himself Catholic and yet also practices paganism? I'm having a hard time figuring out why he doesn't go full pagan (there are pagan ministers, just not also Christian). Paganism is a different belief system, and practicing part of it while calling yourself Catholic is taking cafeteria Catholicism further than I've usually seen.

Also, priests from the Independent Catholic Church and other organizations that were recommended are not necessarily more likely to marry you. The Old Catholic Church of America split around Vatican I over Papal Infallibility (which did not used to be Church dogma). Other Catholic bodies such as the Independent Catholic Church, the Polish National Catholic Church, and others, still hold to the same central dogmas of the Catholic Church, but differ on others. They therefore aren't going to be happy about simply officiating a marriage without anyone who shares their beliefs there. There are other priests who have broken from the Church; this means that any marriage they perform is valid but not licit.

By the way, although it's more difficult to get a dispensation in the Church to marry someone, say, UU, it can be done. You don't have to join the Church or pretend you have. You do have to realize that he will vow to raise your children Catholic.

Calypso1977 · May 2011

im sorry, but you cant be a pagan and call yourself Catholic.

if he is a pagan, tehn you should have a non-religious ceremony or something in your Unitarian church to incorproate your beliefs.

a catholic priest, in communion with Rome (which you would need for the catholic church to recognize your marriage as valid) will nto marry someone outside of a church. you will also have to agree to raise your children catholic. i also think that he woudl have SERIOUS issues with your FI's pagan worship. i doubt youd find one willing to marry you.

FutureJilliannD · May 2011

I think a more serious talk is in order here, because I don't get it either. He is pagen but he wants your marriage blessed by God, yet only wants a Catholic? If you want a religious Christian officiant, there are tons of nondenominational officiants. You can ask your venue for recs.

A JOP is a non-religious officiant, so I doubt that would work for him. They perform a civil marriage ceremony.

StacyJenniges · May 2011

Is the issue that he wants to be married by a catholic priest or that his family wants him to? And I agree with people saying that you don't have to be married in the catholic church for it to be under God.

If you are wanting a religious ceremony you may be able to find a non-denominational minister to marry you. However you may have troubles with this as well if you are not christian. (I don't know what UU so I may be wrong and he is christian.).

I have seen weddings where the wedding was not in a catholic church but a catholic priest was there and said a prayer and a blessing and a different denomination minnister was the official officiant.

Good luck.

redheadfsu · May 2011

I think the issue might be his family. Because if he is beginning to pratice as a pagan, then I doubt even he would be able to accept any of the requirements the Catholic Church requires (getting married in a Catholic church, taking preparation classes/meeting with the priest for counseling, and promising to raise your children Catholic).

Your FI needs to decide what he wants/try to figure out his own beliefs. Does he want the Catholic Church to recognize your marriage? If so, will he be able to handle having to do preparation classes and raising his children Catholic? Or does he want God to recognize it? If so, you can incorporate any ideas/tradition you want into your own ceremony that you two feel are necessary.

After he decides what he wants, then you can figure out what might work.

nefariousmoon · May 2011

Ok I had to read this a few times to get a grasp at what you were saying but I think I may have it now.
Your FI is considered Catholic but prefers pagan rituals. Im reading this two ways. Was he raised Catholic and coverted to Paganism? If so why does he want it to be reconized by the Catholic church? But I also am seeing this from a whole different angle as well. Its not common but not unheard of for a Catholic when they end up going the Pagen route to basically use the same pantheon. The God being well..God and the Goddess being the Vigin Mary. Its also not unheard of for the Catholic saints and Angels to be used. It can actually make for a beautiful ceramony. Even seen an elemental invocation using Angels and it was truly amazing.
If this is the case he is probably wanting to hold true to his Catholic values by having it reconized by the church. But with your obvious unwant to for a Catholic church ceramoney, and if he is going the route Im thinking, I don't truly think he would be comfortable in a church either. What I would suggest is that you two sit down and hash out exactly what each of you want acutally said durring the ceramony. Both of you write out your lists seperatly then put them side by side and look for similarities, thats the easy part. From there look at the differances. What are the most important things left to you on your list and whats most important to him on his? Figure out if you want these to be more undertones or if you two want these things to be very obvious. Whats left of the list after that figure out if you can subtly incorperate them. Its a long process with lots of compermise but it can work.
As for the officiant, as pps have said a Catholic priets will not perform a ceramony outside the chuch. And a JOP is a civil ceramony. I would look for a non demominational minister that is comfortable helping you two to incoperate your faiths into one beautiful ceramony. Be sure to show them the lists you two made, it will help them a lot to get a firm grasp on what you two want.

evalentine1 · May 2011

I'd really suggest going with a UU minister or a non denominational minister. I'm not sure if you are going to be find a Catholic priest that would be willing to do pagan rituals. I was raised UU and I've honestly never met a UU minister who would refuse to do Christian/Catholic rites as part of a ceremony. Maybe you should also see about tailoring your ceremony so you can both be comfortable with it. I whole heartly agree that you shouldn't say things or follow a practice that you don't believe in- it is not good and extremely uncomfortable for you (and can even be taken as lying), and it is extremely disrespectful to those who do practice and follow those beliefs and traditions. UU or non-denominational is definitely the best way to incorporate both faiths while still having a spiritual ceremony.

bibliophile2010 · May 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_catholic-pagan-fi-uu-b-need-officiant-thats-catholic-ish?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:691a46bf-d352-4704-83f5-f35c2c4af8b7Post:7365c790-c694-405a-8f6a-65b677a807c4">Re: Catholic pagan FI and UU B need officiant thats catholic-ish</a>:
[QUOTE]Ok I had to read this a few times to get a grasp at what you were saying but I think I may have it now. Your FI is considered Catholic but prefers pagan rituals. Im reading this two ways. Was he raised Catholic and coverted to Paganism? If so why does he want it to be reconized by the Catholic church? But I also am seeing this from a whole different angle as well. Its not common but not unheard of for a Catholic when they end up going the Pagen route to basically use the same pantheon. The God being well..God and the Goddess being the Vigin Mary. Its also not unheard of for the Catholic saints and Angels to be used. It can actually make for a beautiful ceramony. Even seen an elemental invocation using Angels and it was truly amazing. If this is the case he is probably wanting to hold true to his Catholic values by having it reconized by the church.
Posted by nefariousmoon[/QUOTE]

I have no idea if any of this is true, either for OP for IRL, but anyone reading this, please, please, please know that this goes heavily against Catholic teaching and has numerous theological errors. You cannot be Catholic and pagan.

I think that the decision of religious tradition always comes down to the same questions: What is your belief? What is your fiance's belief? How will you practice religion (or not) as a couple? How will you raise your children? The wedding ceremony, then, should be a natural outcropping of the answers to these questions.

The wedding is also the perfect time to stand up to parents and say, "Look Mom and Dad, Jim Bob and I are no longer practicing _____________, so we will not have a ___________ wedding. I know it is difficult to hear this, but I hope you will still be able to support us." This will help keep this from being an issue over and over and over again in your marriage.

StacyJenniges · May 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_catholic-pagan-fi-uu-b-need-officiant-thats-catholic-ish?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:691a46bf-d352-4704-83f5-f35c2c4af8b7Post:bbefe123-729f-4589-8c21-5546a71d174e">Re: Catholic pagan FI and UU B need officiant thats catholic-ish</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catholic pagan FI and UU B need officiant thats catholic-ish : I have no idea if any of this is true, either for OP for IRL, but anyone reading this, please, please, please know that this goes heavily against Catholic teaching and has numerous theological errors. You cannot be Catholic and pagan. I think that the decision of religious tradition always comes down to the same questions: What is your belief? What is your fiance's belief? How will you practice religion (or not) as a couple? How will you raise your children? The wedding ceremony, then, should be a natural outcropping of the answers to these questions. The wedding is also the perfect time to stand up to parents and say, "Look Mom and Dad, Jim Bob and I are no longer practicing _____________, so we will not have a ___________ wedding. I know it is difficult to hear this, but I hope you will still be able to support us." This will help keep this from being an issue over and over and over again in your marriage.
Posted by bibliophile2010[/QUOTE]

Very good advise! I was raised Catholic my entire falmily is Catholic. My Fiance's family is non-denominational. We have decided that we will be having Fiance's Father a non-denominational christian pastor officiate our wedding. We are going to be raising our children in the Non-denominational church that we attend now. My parents don't mind just happy I am still christian, But my Grandma is not happy about this, and my parents basically told her what you said there. Except that they do not care that I am leaving the catholic church, I still worship God and Jesus and that is all that matters.

MairePoppy · May 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_catholic-pagan-fi-uu-b-need-officiant-thats-catholic-ish?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:691a46bf-d352-4704-83f5-f35c2c4af8b7Post:df6a66a4-b43b-4ee4-bca4-5c0e196fb8b9">Re: Catholic pagan FI and UU B need officiant thats catholic-ish</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't get this. When you say "he is considered" Catholic, do you mean he was baptised/confirmed and now is moving toward paganism, or that he considers himself Catholic and yet also practices paganism? I'm having a hard time figuring out why he doesn't go full pagan (there are pagan ministers, just not also Christian). Paganism is a different belief system, and practicing part of it while calling yourself Catholic is taking cafeteria Catholicism further than I've usually seen. Also, priests from the Independent Catholic Church and other organizations that were recommended are not necessarily more likely to marry you. The Old Catholic Church of America split around Vatican I over Papal Infallibility (which did not used to be Church dogma). Other Catholic bodies such as the Independent Catholic Church, the Polish National Catholic Church, and others, still hold to the same central dogmas of the Catholic Church, but differ on others. They therefore aren't going to be happy about simply officiating a marriage without anyone who shares their beliefs there. There are other priests who have broken from the Church; this means that any marriage they perform is valid but not licit. By the way, although it's more difficult to get a dispensation in the Church to marry someone, say, UU, it can be done. You don't have to join the Church or pretend you have. You do have to realize that he will vow to raise your children Catholic.
Posted by meep2[/QUOTE]

meep-you are right. And on second look, my answer seems to be disrespectful to those churches mentioned. I apologize. I'm sure most religious officiates would not want to perform a marriage ceremony with religious elements that had no meaning for the couple.

I think the op and her fi should really figure out what their beliefs are and then plan their marriage ceremony accordingly.

I think you mean that any marriage that these priests perform are legal, but not valid according to the Roman Catholic church. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" style="display:block;">
</div>

vexie · May 2011

Where i live you can hire private officiants who will do a civil or religious service. Maybe you'll want to check out something like that? If they are not attached to one particular denomination they would be freer to create the ceremony that you are both comfortable with... incorporating God, however to the degree you can both accept. As mentioned by others, a catholic wedding is NOT the only wedding that is recognized by God.

Ramiau3 · May 2011

Of course you can be both a Catholic and a Pagan!!!!!! It seems a rather silly statement. Catholics do not dispute their pagan roots and why should they. Now not all Christians are Catholics and not all Christians have Pagan rituals, maybe that is where the confusion is.

It's difficult when you are trying to combined many religions into a wedding ceremony, but it can be done. You can't get married in a Catholic church (you are not Catholic, unless you want to convert), but it doesn't sound like you want to do that. UU is an excellent alternative since they will give Christian blessings and they will also do a handfasting for you, which as a Pagan I am sure your FI wants. You can also look at Pagan groups, I am sure you will find one that will preform a Pagan/Catholic wedding for you, or ask a good friend who believes similar to you perform your wedding with a One-Day Wedding License. And reconized by God. God is God, (s)he will recognize your marriage, your off the hook there. I am Pagan, raised Catholic and still recongize my Catholic heritiage and my FI is Christian. We are getting married by a Pagan Minister, who was raised Catholic, who's agreed to read Christian readings which are important to my FI. We proforming a Handfasting and jumping the broom.

I agree with other posters here, is your FI real concern that his *family* won't recognize your marriage. That is a completely other issue and one that goes much deeper than a wedding ceremony. If he is a practicing or even a dabbingly Pagan, he needs to "come out of the broom closet" as they say and hope for the best. Or have a private Handfasting and then a public non-religious ceremony.

Though I did have another thought, is what your FI means is that he recognizes that Catholism is heavily influanced by Pagan traditions and wants to celebrate that, very heavy with ritual. Well you are left in the same boat that you are not a Catholic. You can't be married in a Catholic church, sadly.

Riss91 · May 2011

Ramiau, I think you may be taking a bit too much liberty with the relationship between Catholicism and Paganism. While Catholicism shares some similarities to different Pagan practices, its theology and belief system is unique. For starters, Catholicism is monotheistic and to worship Mary (or others) as a Goddess (or God) is inherently un-Catholic. So, you'd need to be practicing two different and opposing belief systems simultaneously, which doesn't make much sense. I could see how someone might be Pagan or Catholic and also choose to practice certain traditions of the other religion that do not violate the belief system of the former.

redheadfsu · May 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_catholic-pagan-fi-uu-b-need-officiant-thats-catholic-ish?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:691a46bf-d352-4704-83f5-f35c2c4af8b7Post:95bdc88a-ee7c-40d8-887d-d2b9d873ef35">Re: Catholic pagan FI and UU B need officiant thats catholic-ish</a>:
[QUOTE]Of course you can be both a Catholic and a Pagan!!!!!! Posted by Ramiau3[/QUOTE]

The Catholic Church does not agree. But, I get your point that the Catholic Church took pagan rituals to convert pagans; however, that is not the same thing as being both at the same time now. People converted which means that they are not Pagans anymore.

[QUOTE] You can't be married in a Catholic church, sadly.
Posted by Ramiau3[/QUOTE]

Yes, she can get married in the Catholic Church. Both people do not have to be Catholics (only one needs to be). But I doubt she wants to get married in the Church.

meep2 · May 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_catholic-pagan-fi-uu-b-need-officiant-thats-catholic-ish?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:691a46bf-d352-4704-83f5-f35c2c4af8b7Post:2a13a9d8-9e48-462c-ba66-7c4fb2bcb8c0">Re: Catholic pagan FI and UU B need officiant thats catholic-ish</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catholic pagan FI and UU B need officiant thats catholic-ish : meep-you are right. And on second look, my answer seems to be disrespectful to those churches mentioned. I apologize. I'm sure most religious officiates would not want to perform a marriage ceremony with religious elements that had no meaning for the couple. I think the op and her fi should really figure out what their beliefs are and then plan their marriage ceremony accordingly. I think you mean that any marriage that these priests perform are legal, but not valid according to the Roman Catholic church.
Posted by MairePoppy[/QUOTE]

No prob, I'm glad I could help clarify :)

Lisa50 · May 2011

There are former priests who perform non-Church ceremonies. That might be an option which would satisfy your fiance. Good luck!

Temmith · May 2011

Do you mean your FI is Christo-Pagan? The Catholic Church does have a large portion of it's roots in paganism, but it has evolved to a point now where multiple gods or other pagan practices are not acceptable. However, pagans on the other hand have no problem with incorporating Catholic tradition with paganism. So you can be Pagan and Catholic, but not Catholic and Pagan (if you get what I mean). Although Bible Christians would disagree and say that Catholics basically ARE Pagan because of their history and traditions, but that's a different story.

http://www.amazon.com/Books-for-the-Christo-Pagan/lm/RNNRNCBU5CU61 This Amazon list might be of interest to your FI; although, it really isn't a wedding-
related link.

I would reccomend a UU or non-denominational minister to act as officiate, since they are going to be the ones most likely to be willing to help adapt a ceremony to your individual beliefs. I hope this helps!

Catholic pagan FI and UU B need officiant thats catholic-ish

Re: Catholic pagan FI and UU B need officiant thats catholic-ish

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