NWR: Pope Benedict is reconsidering the Church's stand on condom use

ootmother2 · November 2010

He cites the moral factor of preventing the spread of AIDS with male prostitutes."Catholic Ethical Thinking" was his term.

I'm not wild about the exact wording but I do agree with the "social concience" factor that he's considering.

Quite a while ago he said that condom use in AIDS plagued parts of Africa didn't justify the use.

This could be a very interesting point of bringing social concience & ethics to those who don't follow our beliefs about sexual behavior.

Opinions?

Hope61 · November 2010

Oh geez. I'd be interested to know the context of the book, but in any case, this is in NO way saying that he's reconsidering the overall stance on condom use. Condoms are bad because they are a form of contraception, so obviously in homosexual relations they are neutral. I do not believe that Pope Benedict is implying that condoms would ever be ok'd by the Church in a heterosexual relationship, just as he is also not saying that homosexuality or prostitution is ok.

caitriona87 · November 2010

The secular media is blowing what he said so far out of proportion, it's ridiculous. They've also shown a real ignorance of how Church teaching is codified (i.e. the Pope speculating on what "may" apply in a particular sitiation during an interview has no bearing whatsoever on Church teaching. He is not speaking ex cathedra.)

This article provides good clarification:

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/the-pope-said-what-about-condoms

Also, as KatieAnne stated, there is nothing inconsistent with what has always been the Church's position on contraception in what the Pope said. He didn't spell it out (and it could be argued that he would've been prudent to do so) but in an act that is ALREADY intrinsically contraceptive by its very nature, the addition of a condom cannot make it more so.

Also see:

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/harvard_researcher_agrees_with_pope_on_condoms_in_africa/

regarding support for the Pope's earlier comments on the inefficacy of condom use in preventing the spread of AIDS.

Calypso1977 · November 2010

oot, you beat me to posting this!

im not sure what i think about this yet.... i think it somewhat makes sense, but at the same time it has the possibility to create a slippery slope with regard to condoms.

mica178 · November 2010

My interpretation of the Pope's statements (in addition to his saying that his opinion is a private one, not a change in Church policy) is that he is showing Christian charity and compassion. He states that condoms alone will not change or stop the spread of HIV/AIDS. Condoms are already widely available throughout the secular world, and yet AIDS continues. The Pope acknowledges that if the homosexual prostitutes consistently used condoms, HIV/AIDS could be transmitted at a lower rate, but I believe he says the role for the Catholic church is to find ways to keep people from practicing prostitution.

ootmother2 · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_nwr-pope-benedict-reconsidering-churchs-stand-condom-use?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:6f8db551-f0ae-4e25-887d-dad4a35deb94Post:78b63f5d-c3b5-421f-a963-6685819174e9">Re: NWR: Pope Benedict is reconsidering the Church's stand on condom use</a>:
[QUOTE]Oh geez. I'd be interested to know the context of the book, but in any case, this is in NO way saying that he's reconsidering the overall stance on condom use. Condoms are bad because they are a form of contraception, so obviously in homosexual relations they are neutral. I do not believe that Pope Benedict is implying that condoms would ever be ok'd by the Church in a heterosexual relationship, just as he is also not saying that homosexuality or prostitution is ok.
Posted by KatieAnne18[/QUOTE]

Did you even read the post?

1) I did not say the the Pope was approving of homosexuality
2) I did not say that the Pope was approving of condom use by hetrosexual couples, even for contraception or AIDS prevention
3) If you read a newspaper or even watch/listen to the news, you would know that it was not a book

Riss91 · November 2010

From what I've read, the media made this out to be something it wasn't. All that was stated was that if someone is committing many sins (say a male prostitute), it might be better to commit fewer sins (ie, use a condom so as to NOT spread STDs) through use of something that isn't condoned by the church. The media is insane.

ootmother2 · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_nwr-pope-benedict-reconsidering-churchs-stand-condom-use?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:6f8db551-f0ae-4e25-887d-dad4a35deb94Post:66acc021-53ce-4ddf-ae24-0a600ee48bdb">Re: NWR: Pope Benedict is reconsidering the Church's stand on condom use</a>:
[QUOTE]From what I've read, the media made this out to be something it wasn't. All that was stated was that if someone is committing many sins (say a male prostitute), it might be better to commit fewer sins (ie, use a condom so as to NOT spread STDs) through use of something that isn't condoned by the church. The media is insane.
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

Thank you Riss.

mica178 · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_nwr-pope-benedict-reconsidering-churchs-stand-condom-use?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:6f8db551-f0ae-4e25-887d-dad4a35deb94Post:66acc021-53ce-4ddf-ae24-0a600ee48bdb">Re: NWR: Pope Benedict is reconsidering the Church's stand on condom use</a>:
[QUOTE] The media is insane.
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

<div>I'll second that.</div>

agapecarrie · November 2010

I'm glad people posted the register, Janet Smith, etc.

The whole media exploitation is SOOO unethical, and does so much damage.

on top of this, it isn't even a church document at all....its an interview.

agapecarrie · November 2010

I'm going to actually paste in this because I think it is a good analogy:

Janet Smith provides a helpful analogy:

If someone was going to rob a bank and was determined to use a gun, it would better for that person to use a gun that had no bullets in it. It would reduce the likelihood of fatal injuries. But it is not the task of the Church to instruct potential bank robbers how to rob banks more safely and certainly not the task of the Church to support programs of providing potential bank robbers with guns that could not use bullets. Nonetheless, the intent of a bank robber to rob a bank in a way that is safer for the employees and customers of the bank may indicate an element of moral responsibility that could be a step towards eventual understanding of the immorality of bank robbing.

There is more that can be said about all this, but what we’ve already seen makes it clear that the Pope’s remarks must be read carefully and that they do not constitute the kind of license for condom use that the media would wish.

ootmother2 · November 2010

The pastor of my church said that many people had questioned him today about this subject. He said he felt that too many people were being judgemental because the comment addressed only gay prostitutes.

He ended by asking us if we remember what we say to close the mass.

"Let us go now and serve God by taking care of each other"

It's not a bad idea and it's totally wrong to assume that anyone who is a gay prostitute will be damned. That part is left up to God.

mica178 · November 2010

Who's judging them? I'd hope that most people can tell that the Pope isn't saying that the prostitutes deserve AIDS?

The thing I think most people are focusing on is that it's sad that these individuals become prostitutes (think of the desperation a person must feel to be willing to give up their body to anyone willing to pay), and it's as sad that people patronize them (and think of sex as something that can be bought). As Catholics, we hold marital sex as something to be respected and cherished, and it's a horrible thing that there's both an industry and a customer base for sex.

Hope61 · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_nwr-pope-benedict-reconsidering-churchs-stand-condom-use?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:6f8db551-f0ae-4e25-887d-dad4a35deb94Post:cde712aa-3d33-4014-a42c-9b10b94612f6">Re: NWR: Pope Benedict is reconsidering the Church's stand on condom use</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR: Pope Benedict is reconsidering the Church's stand on condom use : Did you even read the post? 1) I did not say the the Pope was approving of homosexuality 2) I did not say that the Pope was approving of condom use by hetrosexual couples, even for contraception or AIDS prevention 3) If you read a newspaper or even watch/listen to the news, you would know that it was not a book
Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]

My "Oh geez"etc was referring to the media interpretation, not to your post. I did read your post, although I do have to admit that I could not tell whether you agreed with the media interpretation or not--you seemed neutral but the post title was "Pope Benedict is reconsidering the Church's stand on condom use"...
1. I never said you did--I was using that as a general comparison to show that he also did not approve of condom use.
2. Again, never said you did. And again, I wasn't really sure of your own position. The position of the articles I read, however, seemed to say that that was how things would progress.
3.Actually, it is a book. I did read the news. The Pope's comments that we are referencing come from an extended interview with a reporter named Peter Seewald that will be published in the form of a BOOK called "Light of the World" which will be published at the end of the month.

linzluvsgzuss · November 2010

One of my favorite parts of BXVI's statement: "But it is not really the way to deal with the evil of HIV infection. That can really lie only in a humanization of sexuality."

newlyseliski · November 2010

Exhibit B... yet another excellent opportunity to demonstrate the media's failure to take into account the context of the quote and expose its ignorance of catholicism!

MopsieB · November 2010

I'm totally pro contraception. Why should anyone be forced or tricked into thinking God wants you to have dozens of kids when the world is overpopulated as it is? And in third world countries, these people can't even feed their kids. Is it really fair or moral to bring life into this world and then let it starve to death? Meanwhile, I'm also totally anti artificial insemination, egg donation, IVF and sperm donation. These are all in total violation of God's law and it is against Catholic beliefs, but somehow, the Church NEVER talks about that. The couple who led our pre cana day freely admitted to having tried IVF THREE times! You might call me a cafeteria Catholic, but then, so is the pope.

mica178 · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_nwr-pope-benedict-reconsidering-churchs-stand-condom-use?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:6f8db551-f0ae-4e25-887d-dad4a35deb94Post:8851b38f-0836-429f-97a1-9ffdeb580ff0">Re: NWR: Pope Benedict is reconsidering the Church's stand on condom use</a>:
[QUOTE] You might call me a cafeteria Catholic, but then, so is the pope.
Posted by MopsieB[/QUOTE]

<div>Umm, how is he a cafeteria Catholic? </div>

agapecarrie · November 2010

The pope is not a cafeteria catholic

-2nd, it is a huge myth that the world is overpopulated

3rd: NFP is way more effective that any artificial contraception. the church does not want someone to have "dozens of kids"

This kind of stereotype is so old.

I don't understand how one can think that babies without sex isn't ok, but sex without babies is. divorcing the 2 is contrary to God's law.

Oh, and the church DOES always talk about IVF being contrary to God's law.

I recommend Christopher West "Good news about sex and marriage" and " theology of the body for beginners"

Riss91 · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_nwr-pope-benedict-reconsidering-churchs-stand-condom-use?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:6f8db551-f0ae-4e25-887d-dad4a35deb94Post:f062fb9c-e0b9-4fa4-81a3-883c893e4ae1">Re: NWR: Pope Benedict is reconsidering the Church's stand on condom use</a>:
[QUOTE]The pope is not a cafeteria catholic -2nd, it is a huge myth that the world is overpopulated 3rd: NFP is way more effective that any artificial contraception. the church does not want someone to have "dozens of kids" This kind of stereotype is so old. I don't understand how one can think that babies without sex isn't ok, but sex without babies is. divorcing the 2 is contrary to God's law. Oh, and the church DOES always talk about IVF being contrary to God's law. I recommend Christopher West "Good news about sex and marriage" and " theology of the body for beginners"
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

Yes x 1,000.

It's really sad to me how many people are misinformed.

Calypso1977 · November 2010

mopsie, i've heard of others who have had pre-cana with people speaking about the merits of IVF. it is against church teaching. this is the biggest reason why i'm against lay persons teachign pre-cana. tehy dont know their own faith, how are they supposed to teach couples?

Why should anyone be forced or tricked into thinking God wants you to have dozens of kids when the world is overpopulated as it is?

that statemetn is just pure ignorance. natural family planning does not promote the idea that god wants you to have dozens of kids. it simply teaches that you shoudl nto use artificial means in order to prevent having children. NFP does not "trick" anyone. and the world isnt overpopulated.

mica178 · November 2010

One of our couple leaders during EE also talked about IVF. Both H and I were upset because it probably sounded like an endorsement of it from the church to some of the EE participants.

NFP helps couples avoid pregnancy, and it helps those trying to conceive. Where's the trickery? And, as PPs said, the world isn't overpopulated. Mopsie, please consider reading more unbiased sources of news/information and rethinking some of your previous statements.

k8ly · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_nwr-pope-benedict-reconsidering-churchs-stand-condom-use?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:6f8db551-f0ae-4e25-887d-dad4a35deb94Post:5b2560a0-e686-490b-a674-43b776cd835e">Re: NWR: Pope Benedict is reconsidering the Church's stand on condom use</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR: Pope Benedict is reconsidering the Church's stand on condom use : Umm, how is he a cafeteria Catholic?
Posted by mica178[/QUOTE]

Yes, how?

NWR: Pope Benedict is reconsidering the Church's stand on condom use

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