Seriously considering a commitment ceremony vs real wedding

hartshead · February 2010

Not really an etiquette question, but you ladies seem to be pretty helpful and just needing your input (bad or good).

We were just doing our taxes and ran the numbers on how much we would pay next year when we are married. The combination in income puts me in a much higher tax bracket. We are looking at a lot more (especially next year when they raise the highest tax rate to 39.5%).

We are seriously considering a commitment ceremony and handling all the other aspects via wills/trusts/living wills etc. We both have separate life insurance through work. I don't plan on changing my name and our girls are teenagers.

Are we missing a glaring downside to this?

MyNameIsNot · February 2010

Yes. Commitment ceremonies are for couples that do not have the right to get married.

If you aren't ready to get married and live with everything that comes with it, don't.

Huskerfanz · February 2010

You don't have to file your taxes jointly if you are married.

samurai21 · February 2010

That's a totally personal call. If you're ok with it, go for it. IMO taxes just seems like a silly reason to do a commitment ceremony vs. a wedding if you really want a "real" wedding.

But , if your commitment wouldn't mean any less to you then do what you gotta do.

lpstl · February 2010

I can't give you any hard numbers, but from what my gay friends tell me the cost to get everything in order (will, trusts, property, etc.) is substantial. You'd miss out on all the legal rights and benefits marriage gives you by default. I'd suggest talking to a family lawyer to go over what you can and can't take care of through other legally binding paperwork, figure out how much that will cost, what you'll miss out on, then make a decision.

smokeybailey · February 2010

There's a reason that people are fighting to win the right to have a wedding and be married.

You can be married and file separately.

Brie2010 · February 2010

It seems deceptive to me. You're claiming the benefit of being single for tax purposes, but are basically living in a two-income, two-adult household.

It's like how the polygamist communities in Utah make a crap ton of money off the government by only having one legal marriage and having every other religious "wife" file for food stamps and welfare benefits, even though they are treating themselves as married everywhere else.

ExpatPumpkin · February 2010

Just file separately and rejoice in the ability to be able to get married and enjoy all those perks for free.

bbyckes · February 2010

Laine, I can't believe you only have 27 days to go! Nervous? Scared?

As to the OP, yeah, I agree with pps about fighting for the right to marry, filing separately, yada yada. Don't let taxes scare you.

hartshead · February 2010

We could do married filing separately and pay more. The commitment ceremony would be just as real to both of us as a legal ceremony. We are in our mid 40's and that extra amount of money could be better used for retirement/college funds/healthcare etc. The fact that uncle sam is penalizing a quarter of my salary because we got married is crazy - the amount per year would be more than a year in college for one of our kids.

ExpatPumpkin · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_seriously-considering-commitment-ceremony-vs-real-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:eca3f5b4-2366-44cf-ae9d-12f3ec6a7f85Post:1a77022a-66a7-4549-8166-d2ad5e52ad61">Re: Seriously considering a commitment ceremony vs real wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]It seems deceptive to me. You're claiming the benefit of being single for tax purposes, but are basically living in a two-income, two-adult household.
Posted by Brie2010[/QUOTE]

<div>Why do you find it deceptive? Not being snarky, just genuinely curious. I don't like to pay a penny more in taxes either... </div><div>
</div><div>The option of filing separately is a legal option, so why wouldn't you take it if it benefits you economically?</div>

Morfudd · February 2010

I think she means that it would be deceptive to be committed but not married, for tax purposes, not filing seperately as a married couple.

Brie2010 · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_seriously-considering-commitment-ceremony-vs-real-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:eca3f5b4-2366-44cf-ae9d-12f3ec6a7f85Post:cf2a25f0-2943-4e2f-8474-8727dc644b33">Re: Seriously considering a commitment ceremony vs real wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Seriously considering a commitment ceremony vs real wedding : Why do you find it deceptive? Not being snarky, just genuinely curious. I don't like to pay a penny more in taxes either... The option of filing separately is a legal option, so why wouldn't you take it if it benefits you economically?
Posted by ExpatPumpkin[/QUOTE]

It just bothers me. You're behaving like a married couple, and going through a commitment ceremony rather than a wedding JUST to avoid taxes. After the ceremony, people will probably refer to them as husband and wife, they'll hold themselves out as married, they'll be a two-income household...but they won't ACTUALLY be married. Because of the taxes.

Either stay single and get the legal stuff done and call yourself boyfriend and girlfriend, or get married. Don't pretend to be married socially and then when tax time comes around say "oh wait, no we're not!"

ohwhynot · February 2010

Some friends of mine did this a few years ago, as a protest against marriage discrimination. They have found that it is a major pain in the azz and quite costly to get all their ducks in a row re: insurance, health/life decisions, visitation, child custody, etc. And they still don't have many of the benefits of being married that are conferred by teh state but can't be contracted for (for example, if you are the spouse of a victim of a crime, you get certain victims' rights. Unless your state specifically includes domestic partners as "spouses," you are SOL).

As another poster pointed out, there's a reason gay people are fighting to end marriage discrimination. there are things you'd never even think of that are a benefit conferred upon marriage. Maybe look into the lambda legal foundation's website to find out more.

Brie2010 · February 2010

Right, I am fine with married couples filing separately.

hartshead · February 2010

Still be extra be more married filing separately. I don't mind paying taxes, but seriously when you look at the numbers it's just crazy.

smokeybailey · February 2010

OP: some tax facts for you:
No matter how you choose to file, there are some major tax advantages to being married. For instance, healthcare coverage for a domestic partner is taxable as income, but coverage for a spouse is not. When selling a home, the capital gains tax exemption amount is double for a couple (from $250,000 to $500,000). Also, spouses can make gifts of any amount to each other without being taxed on them. And perhaps the most remarkable benefit is that spouses do not have to pay estate taxes on the amount that is left to them by their beloved when they depart.
Additionally, there are the social security rights that pass to the surving spouse.

I guess you have to weigh that against however the tax rate affects you.

Brie2010 · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_seriously-considering-commitment-ceremony-vs-real-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:eca3f5b4-2366-44cf-ae9d-12f3ec6a7f85Post:58377013-c4fd-43ef-b639-b783932a02e8">Re: Seriously considering a commitment ceremony vs real wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]Still be extra be more married filing separately. I don't mind paying taxes, but seriously when you look at the numbers it's just crazy.
Posted by hartshead[/QUOTE]

If you are that deterred by the marriage penalty, then stay single. Call him your boyfriend. You can still name him as the beneficiary in your will and give him powers of attorney.

Just don't have a commitment ceremony, refer to him socially as your husband, and then file as a single person. That's dishonest and shady, IMO.

ExpatPumpkin · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_seriously-considering-commitment-ceremony-vs-real-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:eca3f5b4-2366-44cf-ae9d-12f3ec6a7f85Post:03443819-897d-40f3-b66c-70cdc6892bec">Re: Seriously considering a commitment ceremony vs real wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]Right, I am fine with married couples filing separately.
Posted by Brie2010[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Gotcha; I thought you meant that filing separately was deceptive.

</div>

lilgina64 · February 2010

married filing seperately is the same as filing as a single person. Your taxes shouldnt change any from this year to next year. It's the same deductions etc.

I'd consult a CPA and get some serious tax advice before you make any decisions.

hartshead · February 2010

It would be a commitment ceremony, not a marriage and no one would be deceived. I think it's definitely something we need to research more re: the legality - definitely time to talk to the attorneys.

ExpatPumpkin · February 2010

As Ohwhynot pointed out, there are serious estate planning benefits to being married. Trusts can only do so much. Only a legal spouse can inherit your estate tax-free, assuming that your estate is sizable enough to warrant such concerns...

Brie2010 · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_seriously-considering-commitment-ceremony-vs-real-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:eca3f5b4-2366-44cf-ae9d-12f3ec6a7f85Post:1c121a79-e5f1-4dd2-bab6-6772cba92ab4">Re: Seriously considering a commitment ceremony vs real wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]It would be a commitment ceremony, not a marriage and no one would be deceived. I think it's definitely something we need to research more re: the legality - definitely time to talk to the attorneys.
Posted by hartshead[/QUOTE]

I am an attorney. You will also need to research your state's common-law marriage rules.

Would you call him your husband? Because if you do, and then file as a single person, that's dishonest.

squirrly · February 2010

I have to believe there are other ways to lower your tax liability if you're intending to save for retirement, kids college, etc. A good accountant and/or tax attorney should be able to help you with that. After all, most of the richest people in the world are married, and many of them are financial cutthroats. If not getting married was the only thing that would save them 25% of their annual income, there would be a lot of technically single CEOs and CFOs.

Get married or don't based on whether you want to be married. Your taxes shouldn't figure into it.

hartshead · February 2010

Thanks guys, you gave me some food for thought.

Morfudd · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_seriously-considering-commitment-ceremony-vs-real-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:eca3f5b4-2366-44cf-ae9d-12f3ec6a7f85Post:6a92f0c9-21ee-46a4-9bd6-5d0189fcbde3">Re: Seriously considering a commitment ceremony vs real wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]I have to believe there are other ways to lower your tax liability if you're intending to save for retirement, kids college, etc. A good accountant and/or tax attorney should be able to help you with that. After all, most of the richest people in the world are married, and many of them are financial cutthroats. If not getting married was the only thing that would save them 25% of their annual income, there would be a lot of technically single CEOs and CFOs. Get married or don't based on whether you want to be married. Your taxes shouldn't figure into it.
Posted by squirrly[/QUOTE]

This is true. We had to do a financial planning workshop as part of our Pre-Cana to be married in the Catholic church, and I swear it was all about tax avoidance.

ZRex · February 2010

Brie-- I thought most jurisdictions no longer recognized commonlaw marriage? Not trying to be a smart@ss about it...just wondering cause I am taking family law this semester.

Brie2010 · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_seriously-considering-commitment-ceremony-vs-real-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:eca3f5b4-2366-44cf-ae9d-12f3ec6a7f85Post:60d072b3-0130-40f6-98ad-7f75f232ef26">Re: Seriously considering a commitment ceremony vs real wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]Brie-- I thought most jurisdictions no longer recognized commonlaw marriage? Not trying to be a smart@ss about it...just wondering cause I am taking family law this semester.
Posted by ZRex[/QUOTE]

Most don't, but I think 11 or so states still do.

pooh8402 · February 2010

I'm about 95% sure Texas still recognizes common-law marriages.

goheels05 · February 2010

Smokey is dead-on. I'm surprised that you would have higher tax liability as a married person. I'm not saying you are wrong, my husband and I are in the same situation, and married-filing-separate didn't help us either because a lot of deductions are denied if you file MFS. But even if your INCOME tax is a little higher each year, there are other tax consequences and non-tax consequences that you are going to deal with that are far above and beyond a little extra income tax to the IRS and state DORs (assuming your state has income tax). I would talk to a lawyer and an accountant, but I have a feeling they are going to tell you the same thing we are.

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