not happy (long)

meganb1977 · March 2012

A couple's shower which was hosted over my objections because it was something fiance wanted took place on Saturday and ended up pretty much as uncomfortable for me as I had feared. Ever since, the last thing I want is a wedding with lots of people there (our guest list which will probably end up with 65-70 people there is small to fiance but way too much for me). So I'm dreading that too and feel like I would pretty much be going through the whole day just for fiance and it's not something I would be happy with, when it's supposed to be for the bride maybe even more so than the groom. I feel like I can't count on fiance to be calm and help me get through it...he dropped the ball after assuring me that he would be my "pillar" at the shower. It seems like fiance doesn't want to give at all on the things that are important to him to cut me some slack when I am not comfortable with it, like because fiance has to have a formal mother son dance I have to dance with my father who I'm not close with, although not estranged from. I get a mixed message from fiance that he says he wants to give me the world but then it doesn't matter that I'm not comfortable with something if it's important to him and it doesn't matter that I'm concerned about something if he doesn't want to deal with it at the time. Fiance says he wants to be compassionate to me but he wants a lot of people at the wedding and ends up saying that we compromised on it a long time ago, basically that it doesn't matter that I've decided now that maybe I compromised too much.

I don't know whether this is actually normal pre wedding stress or whether I seriously need to talk to someone. It is hard to talk to anyone because kind of awkward to tell any of my friends who are invited to the #$@!&ing wedding that I would really rather not have people at the wedding. Fiance and I have tried couples therapy before but didn't have much success with it and felt like the therapist pushed us to stick it out when we weren't benefiting from it and she didn't give us the coaching we needed.

I'm thinking it would be best to call it off even though I did want fiance to be "the one" and at least if we call it off soon hopefully we can minimize how much money we would lose on deposits and etc.

karenmruff · March 2012

Oh my! Megan, I don't know the back story, but as I am awake and you need to talk to someone now, I'll do my best: First off, there is a world of difference between a wedding and a marriage. One is for a day , the other is for a lifetime. Your future marriage is way more important than the wedding. If your fiancé generally supports, loves, and values you, than you have every reason in the world to 'get through' the wedding by gritting your teeth and dealing. If his lack of support about this is just part of a general lack of caring, then maybe you should be considering calling things off. Regardless, you CAN NOT call off your wedding without talking to your friends or family about things. A good friend will realize that you are really upset and not take it personally. Get perspective from someone who knows you! Finally,I am no expert, but if seeing 65 of the people who love you best in the world fills you with dread, maybe you should be talking to a therapist about social anxiety. Please, please, go talk to someone who knows and cares about you, and take care of yourself! Karen

rlavach · March 2012

Wow Megan, I really feel for you. Last night I cried myself to sleep because I'm having cold feet as well (although for completely different reasons).

I totally understand that you feel that your FI isn't taking your feelings into consideration. In our relationship, we're the opposite. I'm the social butterfly with a large family and enjoys public speaking. My FI literally sweats & shakes at the thought of being in front of 85 people at our wedding (I really didn't believe it until I saw it).

I can tell you this, from the other side of the fence, it is very difficult to understand. All my life I have been raised in the public eye of our smallish community. I have no fear of being in front of people. I'm also an only child, so I was forced to push myself out there. It took me a long time to grasp that this wasn't the case for him. It is still hard. There were parts of our wedding that we have to cut out (cake cutting) or modify (doing parent/child dances first) in order to take his thoughts into consideration. It does bother me, but I've had to get over it.

I know that your FI may say that he understands, but maybe you need to sit with him and really lay it out on the table. Explain it all. Sometimes we think that the other is just being dramatic when in fact, they have a social anxiety disorder, as the PP mentioned. Regarding the father/daughter dance, don't do it if you really don't want to. Just because he does it does NOT mean you have to.

I would hold off on calling it off right now. You're in the peak of the emotions. You need to let it settle. I have been going back & forth for a while myself. I honestly am up in the air. The thought of having to return all of those gifts & losing all of that money is scary. Take to a trusted parent or friend. They can help to shed light on the aspects that us here on TK can't possibly know about. Just know that you're not alone.

kmac821 · March 2012

Megan I totally agree with what Karen & PP said. Talk to someone (not that we aren't willing to listen, but it's hard to have a back-and-forth through forums!) and figure out what the root of the issue is. I've been talking to someone and it's really been helping me because I have a lot of issues still from my parent's divorce and this doom and gloom feeling that i'm going to end up that way.

I think Karen said it perfectly--a wedding is a day/event, and a marriage is a lifetime. Even if you don't want to talk to your friends/family about it because you don't want them to feel unwanted at the wedding, they know you and your fiance and can be 3rd party observers in this situation and provide honest feedback.

Also can I just say that I'm glad I'm not the only one who has these feelings of cold feet/doubt/fear? I thought I was the only one and bottling it up is HORRIBLE!

cgyvhu · March 2012

Megan, since we were both early to the board and I've seen your posts regarding FI for awhile, I say definitely, absolutely, talk to someone. Preferably someone who knows about relationship counseling, etc. Even if you want to go to a marriage type counselor alone, thats fine.

It doesnt mean your impending marriage is in trouble, but it might mean that you and FI don't communicate well enough right now and it ends up making you unhappy. Professionals can help with that stuff, friends/family cant. Also, professionals won't spread rumors about you/your FI, which happens sometimes when you talk to friends/family.

I think everyone has second thoughts at some point when things are tough. but I think you've had this same problem a few times in the wedding planning, and it is probably better to fix the problem now than try to do it later!

crnflkgirl75 · March 2012

I think the advice you've been given is good, but I want to point something out. You said youifs howler, well, if you invite them to the shower, they must be invited to the wedding. To do otherwise is rude. Also remember that if you do decide to call it off, which would be very sad, especially over a guest list that feels too large, then you must return any gifts you've received. Regardless, you need to talk it over with your fiancé, and he needs to listen.

meganb1977 · March 2012

I probably do have some social anxiety but generally it's not a problem when I'm not the center of attention and can opt out of an event if it's not important for me to attend. The shower got bad because I had no choice or input about it, fiance gave out the guest list and the hostess sent out invitations without seeking my input although I had told them both that I did not want any pre-wedding parties. I was the co-center of attention and fiance's sister got pushy with me and although fiance was trying to step in for me he made matters worse by getting flustered at her. I had spoken with the hostess about things she could do to make me more comfortable, but she also dropped the ball.

Fiance and I know other couples who are the same way that one person enjoys social gatherings and the other person does not, who have been married for many years. It's something I accept about myself and want fiance to be accepting of just as much as he doesn't want me to ask him to give anything up for me.

I know the 65-70 people care about me and mean well, but I'm afraid they will get pushy with me like fiance's sister did. Having a small group where I can really focus and carry on a conversation with someone is something I enjoy, but 65-70 people at once is a bit much! It seems kind of a waste to pay $50-$75 or whatever the price per head is, to have someone at the wedding when all you are going to end up doing is making small talk for a second before you have to move on and acknowledge another guest or cut the cake or etc.

When fiance and I started planning I wanted something very intimate with just our parents and siblings, but fiance wanted more. He did compromise that we are not getting married in a church, but I think it was just as much a matter of the extra expense for a separate ceremony location and not because going through the church was something I didn't want, and I feel like I got the short end of the stick and gave more to him than he did to me. I think it works both ways, if it's the marriage that's important, wouldn't it be just as valid that why should fiance have a big party for the wedding if I'm not comfortable with it?

em01092 · March 2012

I agree with everything PPs said. If your FI doesn't take your feelings into consideration, that is something serious that you have a right to feel unsure about, and it doesn't sound like you guys are on the same page about a lot of things. I mean, not saying that he can't have what he wants, but you guys should compromise and find something that works for both of you, and this clearly didn't.

Have you talked to your FI and told him how this made you feel? What did he say? Sorry if I missed that, I haven't had coffee yet.

em01092 · March 2012

Also, I think it's crappy he is making you feel like you "have to" dance with your dad if you legit don't want to do so. If they want to, cool. If you don't, cool.

meganb1977 · March 2012

Thanks ladies for all the support, and of course if I did call it off I know that the gifts would need to be returned. I even had to explain to my mother that it is not proper to use anything before the wedding for that reason and everything had to stay in the boxes. I don't think there was ever discussion about cutting the guest list for the date we planned, it would be either called off, or postponed where if we rescheduled it we might or might not choose to do something different.

Sounds like it was good for all of us to know that more than one of us are feeling some mixed emotions right now, I was hoping I wasn't the only one!

karenmruff · March 2012

I'm glad to hear that you are sounding much calmer and getting some good advice.

I don't know if this will help, but I just want to point out that we are expecting 200 people for our wedding. Your fiance might think that he has made a huge compromise on only inviting 65. This doesn't make it easier for you to deal with those people, but it might be good to realize that he could legitmately think that 65 people is 'really small.'

Also, while he might not have been successful in helping you deal with his sister, it says a lot that he tried.

rlavach · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-club-boards_april-2012-weddings_not-happy-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20Club%20BoardsForum:05427f07-4ba2-44d6-9271-99a7af1ee5c0Discussion:a5f30554-8fd6-416b-9c6b-d126ed4326e1Post:14924f6e-485d-4016-b291-224aab9cf09d">Re: not happy (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm glad to hear that you are sounding much calmer and getting some good advice. I don't know if this will help, but I just want to point out that we are expecting 200 people for our wedding. Your fiance might think that he has made a huge compromise on only inviting 65. This doesn't make it easier for you to deal with those people, but it might be good to realize that he could legitmately think that 65 people is 'really small.' Also, while he might not have been successful in helping you deal with his sister, it says a lot that he tried.
Posted by karenmruff[/QUOTE]
I am also going to piggy back on this. I was dead set on having no more than 75 people (even though I'm the outgoing one). I wanted to have an intimate wedding and that number is exactly how many close family and friends we have. Everyone else is fluff. My FI wanted 150+ (he obviously was forgetting the fact that people make him nervous). We went back & forth a lot because he kept trying to push for me to invite more. <div>
</div><div>We finally settled on 90. It was more than I wanted, but much less than him. He sees it as I compromised a tiny bit & I see it as a huge compromise. So to your FI, maybe having 65 guests is really small & he doesn't get why that would be overwhelming to you?</div><div>
</div><div>Regarding people being pushy, if YOUR family knows you well, they should know better than that. It will not take long to make the rounds of table for 65 guests. It's not going to take you the whole night. If some of his family tries to push you to do things you don't want to, your FI needs to stand up. Maybe he's not used to doing that, which is why he got flustered at the shower. He needs to take a lesson from that mistake and correct it for the wedding. He has to be there to support you.</div><div>
</div><div>I'm glad to see that you're being really level-headed about it all. It's really hard. In your OP you said that the wedding day is about the groom, but possibly more so for the bride. Although the wedding industry and family may convince us of that, it's really not true. This is about BOTH of you and BOTH of your families. Write all of these concerns down & bring them when you go talk to someone. </div><div>
</div><div>I really hope it works out for you and the other posters who also have second thoughts. Right now, I don't know what I'm doing either.</div><div>
</div><div>ETA: And we're really not the only ones with cold feet. There was a long thread on the E board recently about it. (<a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_cold-feet-stories?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c6827f4c-abd4-45ee-97a4-ffa631de6f31Post:8b96307c-700f-443e-b068-e83da5992d4c">LINK</a>)</div>

meganb1977 · March 2012

Yeah rlavach, that was the problem, it was fiance's sister who was pushy at the shower, and it was her and a bridesmaid who pushed the shower in the first place and the bridesmaid is a good friend but hasn't known me as long as my family. So it's fiance's people I'm worried about being pushy more so than mine! And as you said it's about both of us so it's half his people.

rlavach · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-club-boards_april-2012-weddings_not-happy-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20Club%20BoardsForum:05427f07-4ba2-44d6-9271-99a7af1ee5c0Discussion:a5f30554-8fd6-416b-9c6b-d126ed4326e1Post:d2123b0c-a239-4f7d-9755-868569068f2a">Re: not happy (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]Yeah rlavach, that was the problem, it was fiance's sister who was pushy at the shower, and it was her and a bridesmaid who pushed the shower in the first place and the bridesmaid is a good friend but hasn't known me as long as my family. So it's fiance's people I'm worried about being pushy more so than mine! And as you said it's about both of us so it's half his people.
Posted by meganb1977[/QUOTE]
That's tough. Having to tell his close & extended family members to stop pushing on you is very hard, especially when he is probably still trying to figure out what you define as 'pushing.' I'm sure that if it was clear to him what bothered you, he'd do a better job of protecting you. He hasn't learned all of those things yet.<div>
</div><div>I'm not trying to condone his behavior, I'm just trying to look at it from another angle. This is where the open, frank conversation comes in. If you want to continue in this relationship, then you need to sit down & point out every single thing that happened at that shower that made you uncomfortable. But then, explain WHY. That's the hard part. Really why. Not just because it makes you nervous. That's too broad of a term that isn't understandable. Really reach down & dig for the real reasons. It will help you to possibly overcome some fears and it will give your FI better insight. </div><div>
</div><div>The more he understands how deeply this affects you, the more instinctive it will be to protect you from that hurt. They don't get it unless you really lay it out. Explain beyond what you feel is necessary. This is what helped us. I hope that helps!</div>

blgrout · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-club-boards_april-2012-weddings_not-happy-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding Club BoardsForum:05427f07-4ba2-44d6-9271-99a7af1ee5c0Discussion:a5f30554-8fd6-416b-9c6b-d126ed4326e1Post:66188523-039f-45ac-b5ff-3ab383b2049b">Re: not happy (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: not happy (long) : That's tough. Having to tell his close & extended family members to stop pushing on you is very hard, especially when he is probably still trying to figure out what you define as 'pushing.' I'm sure that if it was clear to him what bothered you, he'd do a better job of protecting you. He hasn't learned all of those things yet. I'm not trying to condone his behavior, I'm just trying to look at it from another angle. This is where the open, frank conversation comes in. If you want to continue in this relationship, then you need to sit down & point out every single thing that happened at that shower that made you uncomfortable. But then, explain WHY. That's the hard part. Really why. Not just because it makes you nervous. That's too broad of a term that isn't understandable. Really reach down & dig for the real reasons. It will help you to possibly overcome some fears and it will give your FI better insight. The more he understands how deeply this affects you, the more instinctive it will be to protect you from that hurt. They don't get it unless you really lay it out. Explain beyond what you feel is necessary. This is what helped us. I hope that helps!
Posted by rlavach[/QUOTE]

This is excellent advice. I'm so sorry that you are feeling like this! I think that right now, being so close to our weddings, emotions are running really high so I wouldn't do anything as far as calling off the wedding (although it sounds like you are calming down now) because it's easy to do in the heat of the moment.

FI and I had a big fight this weekend about the wedding, but for different reasons. When FI and I first got together he told me he'd never marry again (he's divorced)) and obviously he's changed his mind, but there's this little irrational part of me that thinks he's going to freak out and leave me at the altar, and it manifests itself in my super OCD planning to make sure the day is perfect. Anyhoo, we talked it out after I figured out what my problem was and I spelled it out in no uncertain terms. But before I did, oh boy. It started getting ugly and went as far as both of us wanting to call off the wedding and go to the courthouse and get married.

think that your FI needs to really sit down and realize how important it is that he respect your comfort zone regarding being in the spotlight. The more clearly you can lay it out for FI (as RL said) the better he'll understand.

I hope that you can work this out, but I also hope that you do what's best for you as well. If this is a problem outside the wedding planning, then it's definitely best to figure it out now, rather than after you guys are married, because it's a lot harder to get divorced than it is to call off a wedding.

I hope it all works out for you though. *hugs*

futuremrsdavies · March 2012

First. I am so sorry that you're feeling so uncomfortable and upset during this process. I know we all have had our moments, but it pains me to see anyone so distressed.

That said, I'm also glad you seem to be calming down after the excellent advice that you're being given. I have to agree, as per usual, with RL. I think you and your FI need to have a LONG open discussion about what you need and how you feel, without judgement or comment, and then he can respond with how he feels and what he needs without comment or judgement. Nothing helpful will come if you both comment on each other feelings or needs, but perhaps you can start to come to a compromise based on what you are each willing to give to make the other happy. You are together for a reason, and as other posts have said, your wedding is a day, your marriage is forever. Perhaps your wedding is simply the catalyst your relationship needs to sort through some communication issues you both have.

To give you an example, I am extremely outgoing. I went to school, played sports, joined clubs, and was involved in greek life. My fiance dropped out of school and finished by home school. He got a job and has never stopped working. He is very sensitive and comes from a very affectionate family. I don't think I can remember a time where my parents showed my sister and I affection. My point is, we operate so differently. We are different, yet complimentary people. We have our moments where we want to scream at one another (well i want to scream and he wants to cry) but we had to figure out what we each need when we are angry, upset, scared, confused etc. It took quite a few long conversations but now, when he is upset, I know he needs me to be comforting and when I am upset he knows I need him to just be there without talking. When I am angry, he knows to let me vent before trying to explain his side. When he is angry, I know he needs me to stop what i'm doing and really pay attention to what he is saying.

I think in your situation, your FI, while probably with good intentions, doesn't or hasn't quite gotten the severity and seriousnous of how you feel. And its time that you two have that conversation.

I'm sorry I sound all Dr. Phil about this haha

rardito · March 2012

I will also add to the cold feet list. Some days I am happy and some days I want to run away from my life in general (not due to FI) and never come back. But I've just been feeling really flightly lately because of my job, lifestyle, etc.

rlavach · March 2012

I'm normally not a fan of consulting the internet for relationship advice. Anyone can write anything out there and relationship gurus seem to change their mind hourly. I did find a few ideas that seemed reasonable.

Make a list of all of the pros and cons of your relationship. Seeing it on paper helps you see whether your negatives are truly dealbreakers or trivial. Another was to write a love letter to your FI. I haven't done that one yet, but the idea is to help you remember all of the things you love about him. Lastly was to look through old pictures. Kind of like when you have dress remorse & they tell you to look at pics of your dress, well looking at old pics of when you first started dating is supposed to help you remember all of the reasons that you fell in love.

I think I'm having a really hard time with this because my conservative religious values do not take marriage or engagement lightly. To me, a marriage only ends from death or adultery. So there's no turning back. I just tried listening to our first dance song, which usually turns me into a blubbering fool, and I was ice cold. I've barely spoken to FI all day. Just need the space.

ETA: Just wanted to add that after I made the lists of pros and cons of my fiance, I went back and highlighted those that truly were unique to him and not to marriage in general. So for example, the con of taking on the 'role of a wife' isn't something specific to him. That is something linked to marriage period. Once you delete those things, then you can get to what really is hurting you. Just thought I'd share

not happy (long)

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