To go Veg...or to not go Veg?

CLSchramm · June 2010

I've been reading this book called "Skinny Bitch" by Rory Freedman and Kim Barnouin. For those who aren't familiar, it's a quirky, funny little 'teach yourself to eat healthy' book. They, obviously, strongly urge their readers to give up meat completely and go all out vegetarian. I've never been a huge red meat consumer, but I do enjoy chicken quite a bit and find it hard to give up. I tried cooking tofu the other night but it was a horrible disaster and really kind of turned me off of the stuff.

So, my question is, how many of you are vegetarians here? Pros, cons, reasons for doing it? I even included a fun little clicky poll!

CLSchramm · June 2010

And crap, the poll didn't work, there's supposed to be a meat option. le sigh.

CLSchramm · June 2010

Also, not to post and run, but i've got to hit the hay. Can't wait to see what you ladies have to say in the morning!

bethsmiles · June 2010

I think if you talk to a nutritionist they will tell you that you can eat meat and still eat healthy. I am not a vegetarian. If I were you I would look for a different book. Vegetarians aren't necessarily healthier than those who eat meat. I've taken quiet a few nutrition classes and I'm no expert but I was never told I should be come a vegetarian

Simply Fated · June 2010

I've read parts of that book and a lot of it is to instill fear. Like the milk section... NOT all dairies are like that. People need to be more aware of where their milk and meat comes from and make smart choices.
In my opinion, going vegan is really unhealthy IF not done right. I always suggest seeking help from a nutritionist. A lot of inexperienced vegetarians try to go online or listen to their friends about what they should and shouldn't eat. But they aren't experts and every one is different. As with any major diet change, you should always talk to a doctor about it.

thesuninherhead · June 2010

I'm a meat eater by choice, but I do feel that either is healthy so long as you have appropriate guidance on what to include.

rbtrumpet · June 2010

I'm a meat eater by choice (and I think I'd actually go crazy if I couldn't have ;meat!), but it's like Fated said - it's important to know where your meat/animal products come from, and how they are raised.

Grass-fed top-round (with the fat trimmed) steaks may still be red meat, but it's a heack of a lot healthier than your 70% lean/30% fat ground beef from a farm that doesn't take good care of their animals.

danieliza1127 · June 2010

I eat meat but my H and I try to have at least one meatless dinner every week. Not all meat is bad for you and it has a lot of healthy nutrients that a body needs.

I wouldn't just decide to go vegetarian without doing a lot of research on it to find out what to eat to stay healthy and still get the vitamins and nutrients I would need.

Nebb · June 2010

Im more of a white meat eater (chicken, pork) than a red meat eater. I also eat shellfish (scallops, shrimp) more so than red meat.

mimandjon · June 2010

DH and I eat meat, but not very much of it. I would say half of our meals every week are vegetarian. When we do have meat with a meal, it is generally part of something else (like lean ground beef or turkey in the pasta sauce). The only meal I can think of that we eat where meat is the main component is hamburgers (and we use the really lean ground beef for that as well).

Eating a lot of red meat can be really unhealthy, but I don't think it is necessary to cut it out completely (if you enjoy eating it) and it certainly can be part of a healthy diet.

sarah0725 · June 2010

I bought that Skinny Bitch book once in Penn Station, and I think it goes way too far. There are plenty of ways to eat healthy without going to those extremes. We do eat too much meat as a culture, but that doesn't mean that eating meat is bad entirely. If you want to read someone who's interesting talking about food, read Michael Pollan - he's really knowledgeable about health risks from bad food, and yet he has a real reverence for the delicious.

Audrey&Austin · June 2010

I'm a vegetarian by choice. I don't eat beef, chicken, pork or seafood. I don't drink milk because of the taste and the same with eggs. I do eat cheese and use milk and eggs when cooking.

Part of the reason is because of the meat/dairy industry and the way the animals are treated. Part of the reason is because red meat is pretty bad for you (due to everything that they are fed now). The last reason is because I love animals and I don't think that any creature needs to die so I can feed myself something I don't need to survive.

Being vegetarian can be healthier, but you do have to pay more attention to what you eat and make sure you get all of your vitamins and whatnot. From what I've found, vegan is almost never healthy for you. Most vegans I know restrict their diet so much that they don't get the nutrients their body needs.

Most books/movies about the meat and dairy industry are meant to instill fear and they do have a tendency to over exaggerate things a bit. I would not base your life off of one book that you read that was heavily biased...

aesthyerin · June 2010

I was so disappointed in that book! I too thought it just instilled fear of eating anything but raw veggies. We are both meat eaters by choice because it makes my life easier. DH is definitely a meat preferer although I could go either way. I try to make more healthy sides and less meat so he at least gets a balanced meal.

ETA: My SIL is a vegetarian and looks sick and is also ALWAYS sick. She only eats pure food (that's the only way I can describe it) if she can. She's always tired and always has something wrong, but claims that she's eating healthier.

goheels05 · June 2010

I think ditching meat in order to be "healthy" is counter-intuitive. Meat is a great way to get protein, iron, and other important nutrients, and you will struggle to meet those dietary needs without it. Most vegetarians I know are actually overweight, and it's because most of them replace meat with carbs rather than other sources of protein like nuts and beans. And if you already really like chicken and imagine that it will be hard to give up, I strongly discourage you from going vegetarian. My sister did about 10 years ago, and she wants to eat meat again but it makes her terribly sick because her body now lacks the enzymes to break it down.

I'm not familiar with this book, but based on what others are saying, if you have concerns about the safety of your food, consider buying meat, eggs, and vegetables from a farmers market or farm share.

SarahPLiz · June 2010

I eat meat by choice. I have a hard time getting enough protein to recover from workouts otherwise. However, I am allergic to pork and turkey, so that leaves me most often with beef, fish and chicken. I love vegetables, however, and my diet is veggie heavy, and we eat tons of beans and peanut butter (not together.. yuck) .

I think that humans were made to be omnivores for a reason. Do you know that the reason Panda Bears are so sloth-like is that they have omnivore digestive systems, but only eat bamboo? The bamboo doesn't have enough protein to fuel them and really can't be digested as well by their system. I learned that on wikipedia

Most of the vegetarians I know are either sickly or obese. I'm not sure how that happens, but I think it probably has to do with a protein deficient diet.

ETA: For Lent one year I decided to be a pescatarian (fish and plant matter only) and it was really boring. I didn't get any healthier at all, and actually felt malnutiritioned because I didn't eat as much because of boredom with the food.

tlv204 · June 2010

I eat meat by choice. I agree that it's important to know about what you're eating and where it comes from (which I think is true no matter what you eat), but honestly I just look at meat as part of a healthy balanced diet. I mean I certainly don't have steak for dinner every night and don't even eat meat with all of my meals, but I wouldn't be happy OR healthier going vegetarian.

antimony · June 2010

I haven't read that book, but I'm a lifelong vegetarian. I'll tell you the same thing I told my FMIL after she read Omnivore's Dilemma and had a similar reaction.

Cut meat out from one dinner a week. (If you don't eat it every night anyway, cut it down by one.) Don't try to go cold turkey all at once. You'll be able to learn about cooking vegetarian food without feeling like you're completely lost. If you like it, cut out another meal. Etc. Or make meat a small part of the meal rather than the star of the show. Cut down, not out. If you end up getting all the way to vegetarian at the end of the process, then it's right for you. If not, you're still reducing your environmental/animal rights/whatever impact.

You don't have to like tofu. It's tricky to work with and a lot of people don't; I love it, but there are a bunch of things I've never gotten the hang of. If your grocery has it, try seitan? (Pronounced like "Satan", it's usually near the tofu in a refrigerated area.) I'd also say get tofu at your favorite Chinese restaurant the next time you order or something -- see if you like it when it's done well.

As an anodyne to the last few post -- while going raw vegan isn't for everyone, my aunt did it and is healthier and happier (and looks it) than she had in years. That sort of extreme doesn't work for everyone, but it does for some. (I'm definitely not raw vegan -- I have way too much of a love of cheese and of baking.)

mocha beans · June 2010

I could never go vegetarian. For one, it's more work that I want to do as far as eating and meal planning. I'm not interested in doing the research that I feel would be necessary for me to do it safely. And I just really love meat. Not that I'm gorging on steaks nightly, I moderate just like everything, usually have a vegetarian meal once or twice a week, go heavy on the veggies the rest of the week along with my meat.

Another thing, I just don't think it's all that healthy. We are designed to be omnivores. We have the teeth to handle meat, we have the enzymes to handle it, we need the protein that meat provides. The human brain really didn't start to grow and evolve at the rapid pace that it has until we started eating meat along with plants. So we may not even be where we are now without it.

If you're concerned mainly about the environmental impact, then find smarter meat. Buy from a local farmer who does organic or grass fed beef or chicken or pork. Even better if you can find a farmer that deals in the older breeds of animals, ones that haven't been bred by corporations to be more tolerant of industrialized farming. Older heirloom breeds are much more resilient to nature, and their resilience is passed on to you in the meat in the form of better nutrients and taste. Same goes for veggies, btw. If it's health you're most concerned about, that would be a way to eat healthier and still eat meat.

[Deleted User] · June 2010

hint on cooking tofu-
press it an freeze it before cooking, and marinate it.

you'll get a whole different taste/texture.

polichik · June 2010

Skinny Bitch, although helpful in some ways, gives out a lot of misinformation. It advocates extreme veganism, which is fine for some people but unrealistic for the majority of the population.

I chose to become a vegetarian when I was 8 (partial veg when I was 6) because I found out where meat came from. That was it for me. Almost 16 years later, I'm in great health. I've also done my research, takes lots of supplements, and cook almost all of my meals (try to avoid pre-packaged stuff unless absolutely necessary). FI eats meat, but he's eaten almost exclusively meatless dinners and breakfasts since moving in with me. He often has lean turkey or tuna for lunch, but that's really about it unless he goes out for burgers with the guys, which is once in a blue moon. Since living with me and eating veg, he's lost 20 pounds that he wanted to lose and has more energy.

I think that meat can certainly be part of a healthy lifestyle, but human beings aren't designed to eat red meat three meals a day. Our bodies are designed to eat mostly vegetables, slightly less grain, and even less meat. When meals are structured in the reverse order (almost all meat and starch with a sad little pile of grey lettuce), health problems begin.

My mom eats meat, but she cooks the healthiest meals of anyone I know, which is why it was so easy for me to become a vegetarian. Her meals are packed with protein and fiber, regardless of whether it's from a meat or a plant source. Even though I know that her enviable metabolism is part of it, she's 58, is 5'8", and weighs 130 pounds, and could up and run a half-marathon if she felt like it. Just goes to show that you can easily be an unhealthy vegetarian or an incredibly healthy omnivore.

So, if Skinny Bitch gets people to eat better, fine. But I think it's a bit over-the-top, and that's coming from me.

End of novel

mandysmear · June 2010

I'm a flexitarian. I eat meat when I want or when it's convenient. If I cooked all meals throughout the week (all 21), I bet I'd only eat meat for 3 meals. I never cook it for myself. If we eat meat it's cause H made dinner and even then a lot of times it's meatless.

I get most my meat from sandwiches or take-out items.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · June 2010

I'm a vegetarian for both reasons. Meat makes me sick (give me headaches), so it wasn't hard to cut it out. I never really liked red meat, either. But in order to stay strong in my choice, I've had to adopt other reasons too. I don't think it is right to kill animals for food. I love animals. I've always owned pets. To me, eating a cow is the same as eating my cat... which I would clearly never consider.

The meat industry in the US, of course, is appalling. I don't have a problem, really, with people hunting their own food or raising their own livestock (I couldn't do it - see reason number one - but if you can, more power to you). But factory farms are just disgusting. I certainly think it is easy for people to live in ignorance of where their food comes from and most people don't consider vegetarianism because they don't want to examine their diet. Our diets are also a part of our family and culture, and many people get defensive about that.

Thirdly, I like the environmental responsibility that comes from not supporting the meat industry. More greenhouse gasses are released as a result of agriculture in the US than all of the cars on the roads in the US. A HUGE percentage of those are from livestock.

So I like all those reasons: health, animal rights and environment. I think you really need a combination to feel strongly about, or you might get burned out. (Peer pressure and convenience are strong reasons to start eating meat again.)

I would recommend tracking your diet on something like sparkpeople.com. It's a cliché, and most veggies will tell you it's false, but is IS slightly harder to get protein on a vegetarian diet. While the USDA protein requirements might be too high, if you work out, you should at least aim for the lower end of the scale (at least 60 grams of protein a day). Make sure you balance your diet.

And to end this novel, I have not read skinny bitch, but I've heard that most of her recipes involve a lot of processed food, or what's considered vegan "junk" food. Just because something is vegan does NOT mean it is healthy. Eating cleanly (fresh fruits and veggies, organic dairy and eggs, buts, tofu, whole grains) is what you want to aim for, no matter if you eat meat or not.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · June 2010

You might also want to check out "Meatless Mondays" (google) for recipe tips. Or start slowly by just incorporating more meatless meals into your routine.

Fake meats and frozen veggie burgers are great as transitional foods, but most long-term vegetarians I know only eat them once-in-a-while. There's a learning curve, though. You DO need to replace the meat you are used to with something else until you get the hang of it. The first three weeks were tougest for me (I went full veg 5.5 years ago, didn't eat red meat for several years before that). If you have a Whole Foods, or even Trader Joes near you, they are very helpful and veg-friendly.

If you cook dinner for 2 a lot, you might want to get some good veg cookbooks. I like, "How to Cook Everything Vegetarian" by Mark Bittman and any book by Isa Chandra Moskowitz (all her books are vegan).

In terms of healthy, natural eating, I really like Michael Pollan's books (Omnivore's Dilemma) and "Animal, Vegetable, Miracle" by Barbara Kingsolver. You should also watch "Food Inc." and read "Fast Food Nation."

LD1970 · June 2010

I picked up the Skinny Bitch book at B&N, thinking I'd like it, flipped through it, and realized she was veg. I put it back down. Not enough money in the world to make me go vegetarian.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · June 2010

I also go back and forth on whether or not veganism is the healthiest and "most pure" diet. Sometimes I think it's something to strive for. Most of the time I think, "Eff that, I love cheese." The protein (casein) in cheese actually has addictive qualities. Plus, most vegans I know are VERY militant and much mroe into animal liberation than I am. As in, they don't believe people should own pets because it's "controlling" animals.

CLSchramm · June 2010

Thanks ladies for all the great info! I know the book is a little over the top; I have two uncles who have this huge family farm operation in Illinois, and I know they don't treat their animals the way this book describes. They do their own butchering, and I've been to their hog houses and out to the cattle field, and I know the wonderful conditions these animals live in. It's the thought of these factory farms, and their horrible treatment of animals that saddens me.

FI would have a really hard time if I wanted to go all out vegan. He gets really jazzed about salad, but not every night lol. I think the book has a lot of good information though, especially about the things that we might not think about, like how much sugar and preservatives are in a lot of the products we buy. I know I've started looking more closely at labels since reading it. My downfall will always be cheese though; I freaking LOVE cheese! But, I think as long as I try to eat balanced meals, and pay attention to what I'm eating, I'll be much healthier in the end.

Thanks again all, great discussion, loved it!

LD1970 · June 2010

It's good to try & avoid chemicals and such, but humans ARE built to be omnivores.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_vegor-not-veg?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:db9639bf-7cb9-4999-84aa-398184d2c2e8Post:7eda8178-3d6b-46d3-8124-9b14213cde96">Re: To go Veg...or to not go Veg?</a>:
[QUOTE]It's good to try & avoid chemicals and such, but humans ARE built to be omnivores.
Posted by LD1970[/QUOTE]

You can also argue that we're not, because we have flatter teeth and a longer digestive track than most animals who eat meat. But to each his own.

LD1970 · June 2010

... and canine teeth. They're still there. Plus, we were given the brains to invent knives & forks! ;-)

mrs.rab · June 2010

Skinny Bitch is a completely Vegan book. And I think it does have some good info in there. They may be extreme but I think they do bring some things to the table that you wouldn't normally think of when considering changing to a Vegan or Vegetarian lifestyle.

And it's not just about the food, its about any kind of animal product, or the greenhouse gasses animals made for slaughter produce . FI doesn't buy anything with leather in it, shoes, belts, etc. Also, "Eating 1lb of meat emits the same amount of greenhouse gasses as driving an SUV for 40 miles". (http://www.goveg.com/environment-globalwarming.asp) So you have to think about the other things too.

They actually have a cookbook now, that does have some pretty good recipes in it. And I really didn't feel like it was hard AT ALL to change our lifestyle (vegetarian). So, I totally think that is just a bad excuse, or something people think is better to say than "I just don't care/want to change my ways." We came up with a lot more recipes to make and became a lot more daring with our food choices. Morning Star, Boca, and Smart Deli are all awesome!

Morfudd · June 2010

I just second all the advice to really look into your nutriton, if you do go veg.

I'm not a vegetarian anymore, but I'm glad I did it for a while (twice)-- it made me a much more adventurous eater and creative cook-- but I did have to work at it because I'm a pretty picky eater.

As is, we don't eat much meat because we're grad students with limited grocery budgets and we'd rather spend our meat money on the pricer meat from non-antibiotic-stuffed animals. (And we're old-school about our Catholicism and skip meat all Lent and on Fridays; next year I think we'll do it through Advent, too-- so I don't worry about what little meat we do eat.)

To go Veg...or to not go Veg?

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