XP: just out of curiosity

ezequalsmc · March 2013

I am...well, long story short, I guess I'm Agnostic. My fianc was raised Catholic, but he hasn't been to a church in years and considers himself agnostic as well. This is purely out of curiosity, we are on the same page for our ceremony, raising any future children, etc. What will change for him, church wise, once we are married? I read on another thread about this sort of thing and I was just wondering what marrying outside the Catholic Church means for someone who is technically catholic. Thanks!

lalaith50 · March 2013

Assuming you are NOT getting married in the Catholic Church, (which I think is what you are trying to say,) it will mean that the Catholic Church does not consider your marriage to be "valid," as in you will not be considered "married," and therefore "living in sin," and will not be able to receive an Sacraments like Communion. If you were to decide you wanted to, for example, baptize your children in the Catholic Church, they may or may not give you a hard time about getting your marriage recognized by the Church. Anyhow, since you asked, I realize it probably sounds harsh to you, but it also sounds like since you consider yourself Agnostic, these things shouldnt bother you much.

ezequalsmc · March 2013

Thanks! I have heard that he won't be able to receive Sacrament, but neither of us is sure what that is? It's Communion, then? We aren't super concerned about it, but I thought it was interesting. We respect the Catholic Church, we just aren't a part of it.

GoodLuckBear14 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_xp-just-out-of-curiosity?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:654d6de7-bccc-4c6c-8724-3b1b5db74d82Post:e41353f1-4e15-46b6-bfe8-12ccae918e87">Re:XP: just out of curiosity</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:XP: just out of curiosity : Correct, he won't be able to receive communion (which we believe to be the true presence of Jesus Christ). <strong>Not receiving communion is a big deal for Catholics</strong>. I'd make sure your FI is really ready for that.
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

Not all of them.

OP - Your FI is the only person who can say how important it is to him. I would also recommend he talk to his parish priest just to make sure he has all of the facts before making this decision.

agapecarrie · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_xp-just-out-of-curiosity?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:654d6de7-bccc-4c6c-8724-3b1b5db74d82Post:95b22819-2f98-46d1-88d8-e64ec583ded5">Re:XP: just out of curiosity</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:XP: just out of curiosity : Not all of them.
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]

<div><div>I don't understand this. If people don't want to believe in the catholic faith, they are free to do so-- but then why consider themselves catholic at all? Why still "be catholic"? I would think that those who receiving the sacraments isn't important to them would not consider themselves catholic anymore, thus this statement wouldn't be true.</div><div>
</div></div><div>
</div>

beachwed10 · March 2013

You will have a hard time finding a church that would refuse your husband communion or the last rites etc. It's not like they quiz you when you go up for communion. I know MANY families in my very Catholic hometown who were not married in the church, my parents included, and they still were able to baptize their kids no questions asked, receive communion, go to reconciliation. There was no issue.

Riss91 · March 2013

Receiving communion while in a state of sin is extremely damaging to your soul. This leaves a scar, though it is invisible. It is not the priest's responsibility to "quiz" anyone. They assume that those coming up for communion are "able" to receive. If the priest knows for a fact that someone coming up for communion is in a state of sin, he can and should deny communion.

It is also a desacration to the Eucharist itself, which is the utmost insult and offense to Catholics.

erin5286 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_xp-just-out-of-curiosity?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:654d6de7-bccc-4c6c-8724-3b1b5db74d82Post:22faf4af-0b35-4b8f-a7ec-afa38d6f18fa">Re:XP: just out of curiosity</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:XP: just out of curiosity : I don't understand this. If people don't want to believe in the catholic faith, they are free to do so-- but then why consider themselves catholic at all? Why still "be catholic"? I would think that those who receiving the sacraments isn't important to them would not consider themselves catholic anymore, thus this statement wouldn't be true.
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

Isn't it "once a catholic, always a catholic?" As in, even if someone doesn'tpractice, or doesn't believe themselves to be Catholic, if they were baptized they'll always "be" a Catholic? Not trying to be argumentative at all, just wondering since it seems like that has been mentioned on here before.

GoodLuckBear14 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_xp-just-out-of-curiosity?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:654d6de7-bccc-4c6c-8724-3b1b5db74d82Post:22faf4af-0b35-4b8f-a7ec-afa38d6f18fa">Re:XP: just out of curiosity</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:XP: just out of curiosity : I don't understand this. If people don't want to believe in the catholic faith, they are free to do so-- but then why consider themselves catholic at all? Why still "be catholic"? I would think that those who receiving the sacraments isn't important to them would not consider themselves catholic anymore, thus this statement wouldn't be true.
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

I was just pointing out that not all Catholics feel this way about receiving the sacraments. I am more than aware that most of the ladies on this board do not consider me a Catholic and like you ask why I still call myself one. It is because I still believe in the social justice aspects of the church that I was taught growing up and in my twelve years of Catholic school. It is because I was taught by priests and nuns alike that how you treat others and how you live your life is more important than following the rules of the church (though that was encouraged). If every one of your beliefs that you came to on your own match up with everything the Church says, then congratulations. That is not most of us.

agapecarrie · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_xp-just-out-of-curiosity?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:654d6de7-bccc-4c6c-8724-3b1b5db74d82Post:e59474a4-bbcd-4d77-81bd-51b179059353">Re:XP: just out of curiosity</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:XP: just out of curiosity : Isn't it "once a catholic, always a catholic?" As in, even if someone doesn'tpractice, or doesn't believe themselves to be Catholic, if they were baptized they'll always "be" a Catholic? Not trying to be argumentative at all, just wondering since it seems like that has been mentioned on here before.
Posted by erin5286[/QUOTE]

<div>Yes, once a catholic always a catholic. That's not what I was getting at.</div><div>
</div><div>I was getting at why the person themselves would still consider themselves catholic if they don't even believe in the bare minimum. </div><div>
</div><div>That is to make a confession and receive communion once a year. That's the bare minimum. </div><div>
</div><div>The Eucharist is THE source and summit of the faith. There are plenty of faiths that have a strong social justice angle. </div><div>
</div><div>Those of us that do find everything we believe lining up with the church, have usuall studied it extensively, gone through periods of doubts and question the teachings, and come out the other side after lots of reading. </div><div>
</div><div>So many people reject the teachings of the faith without understanding them. </div>

agapecarrie · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_xp-just-out-of-curiosity?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:654d6de7-bccc-4c6c-8724-3b1b5db74d82Post:d99f31a9-c78a-4a25-bfe7-a7ca387d4ccc">Re:XP: just out of curiosity</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:XP: just out of curiosity : Once a person is Baptized Catholic, there is nothing he / she can do to "erase" the graces of baptism. That said, he/she may choose to do something that would show that he/she is no longer in communion with the Church (such as getting marreid outside the faith). There is always an opportunity for him / her to return to the church and make changes to their life to be in communion again. This has to be a decision from the person.
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

<div>I'm going to clarify here... one person can stop receiving the graces of the sacraments when they turn away from them. It doesn't undo the baptism, but if they aren't "in the state of grace" they can't receive that grace, by their own choice.</div>

agapecarrie · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_xp-just-out-of-curiosity?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:654d6de7-bccc-4c6c-8724-3b1b5db74d82Post:ab462bf1-33ff-42fb-9a85-5792dff02c7a">Re: XP: just out of curiosity</a>:
[QUOTE]You will have a hard time finding a church that would refuse your husband communion or the last rites etc. It's not like they quiz you when you go up for communion. I know MANY families in my very Catholic hometown who were not married in the church, my parents included, and they still were able to baptize their kids no questions asked, receive communion, go to reconciliation. There was no issue.
Posted by beachwed10[/QUOTE]

<div>There is most certainly an issue. </div><div>
</div><div>In order for one to have a valid confession, they have to confess all serious sins, and actually be sorry for them. If they plan on continuing to live in that state, well, that's not really sorry. So the absolution can't be valid. And then receiving communion while not in the state of grace is desecrating to the EUcharist as well as oneself. </div><div>
</div><div>Just because you can't see the harm done doesn't mean it isn't happening. </div>

Riss91 · March 2013

I think that generally, on this board, when we use the word "Catholics" we are referring to those people that consider themselves Catholic and follow the doctrine of the Catholic Church. We aren't going to advise someone according to what non-followers do/believe.

GoodLuckBear14 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_xp-just-out-of-curiosity?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:654d6de7-bccc-4c6c-8724-3b1b5db74d82Post:3674ef5e-3bde-458f-85c7-8ac54f931106">Re: XP: just out of curiosity</a>:
[QUOTE]I think that generally, on this board, when we use the word "Catholics" we are referring to those people that consider themselves Catholic and follow the doctrine of the Catholic Church. We aren't going to advise someone according to what non-followers do/believe.
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

Except in this case you are telling her what her FI believes. What is being said about state of grace, sacraments, etc. is all true, however, for anyone to say, this is important to Catholics is not a universal fact. You don't know what he believes or how important this is to him which is why I advised that he discuss this with his parish priest.

*edited fro clarity

Riss91 · March 2013

Hmmm.. I thought we were advising her what Catholics (as in those that follow doctrine) believe. How could anyone know what her FI believes specifically? She said he's basically agnostic....

GoodLuckBear14 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_xp-just-out-of-curiosity?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:654d6de7-bccc-4c6c-8724-3b1b5db74d82Post:2be42908-104f-4c2c-ba33-aca9cdfd7604">Re:XP: just out of curiosity</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:XP: just out of curiosity : There are BIG differences here. I have a dear friend who is a UU minister. She supports the social justice teachings of the Catholic Church and attended a social justice lecture led by Cardinal DiNardo. She also believes in treating people with respect and charity. She is not Catholic, nor does she claim to be one. Believing in the Sacraments is a core belief for Catholics. It is a belief that God's grace is made tangible to us via our senses (bread & wine for Eucharist, oil for Anointing, the spoken word for Reconciliation, etc). The Catechism clearly states that the Eucharist is the Source and Summit of our faith. ( <a href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a3.htm)." rel="nofollow">http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a3.htm).</a> I'm sure you're a wonderful person, GLB, and I mean this with absolutely no personal disrespect. While social justice is incredibly important in the life of the Church, it is in no way close to to the same level of importance for Catholics as the Eucharist is.
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

And I say this with no disrespect aimed at anyone on this board but I grew up in Cincinnati where even if you are not Catholic you answer "what part of the city do you live in" with the parish you are in, a city where most people go through the Catholic school system, a city where many of us (including me believe it or not) have family who are nuns and/or priests and I do not recognize the Catholicism that this board discusses. It is like it is from another century. This board is so much more exclusionary that what I have experienced and harsher than any nun or priest I have ever had discussions with. The only person I have ever had an IRL conversation with that is like the ones I find here is a former friend who attends a church that refuses to follow the Vatican II reforms.

agapecarrie · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_xp-just-out-of-curiosity?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:654d6de7-bccc-4c6c-8724-3b1b5db74d82Post:92b0962e-f074-4528-90c3-95988a4b191b">Re:XP: just out of curiosity</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:XP: just out of curiosity : And I say this with no disrespect aimed at anyone on this board but I grew up in Cincinnati where even if you are not Catholic you answer "what part of the city do you live in" with the parish you are in, a city where most people go through the Catholic school system, a city where many of us (including me believe it or not) have family who are nuns and/or priests and I do not recognize the Catholicism that this board discusses. It is like it is from another century. This board is so much more exclusionary that what I have experienced and harsher than any nun or priest I have ever had discussions with. The only person I have ever had an IRL conversation with that is like the ones I find here is a former friend who attends a church that refuses to follow the Vatican II reforms.
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>St. Louis is similar in its catholic identity. And you will fund orthodox catholics ALL over. most of my friends are orthodox (believe and adhere to all the teachings). </div><div>
</div><div>It's not "exclusionary" to proclaim the truth-- the proclaim the gospel. It is loving to do so.</div><div>
</div><div>Vatican 2 did not change the doctrine of the faith.

</div>

agapecarrie · March 2013

If you want "real catholicism". As in, what is actually catholic, read the catechism. That is the catholic church beliefs.

Riss91 · March 2013

I'm confused.

This board constantly states "baptized a Catholic, always a Catholic". I've personally always supported the idea that we SHOULDN'T force out people that do not believe 100%. We should never ask them not to call themselves Catholic. I didn't believe in most of the faith for the majority of my life but I was always a Catholic. There are numerous threads where we have discussed this and MANY of the posters agreed with my stance. It is truly upsetting that someone would accuse this entire board of excluding people. There are so many helpful, understanding and supportive ladies on here trying tirelessly to show charity to everyone - even those that are simply instigating and demeaning our faith.

It is unfair to ask a group of Catholics to speak against the faith. Or direct someone that it isn't a big deal if they don't follow the rules. If someone asks whether a majority of Catholics follow something, then we will answer that they might not all follow it.

None of us are perfect. But many try really hard to be helpful and kind. Not all - but many. I truly hope their efforts aren't going unnoticed.

Hearing the doctrine of the Church is difficult. Understanding it and following it is even harder.

GoodLuckBear14 · March 2013

Nobody is asking anybody to speak against the Catholic faith, Riss. My problem is the vibe of this board that really does give the impression that if you do not follow the catechism word for word, if you do not obey everything the church says, then you are not a real Catholic and should not call yourself a Catholic. If this is what the Church was really like, I would have converted to my DH's Greek Orthodoxy long agao. When you are talking to other Catholics, I let it roll off my back. When you are answering the question of someone who is not Catholic and proceed tell her what her FI believes, that is when I get angry.

My original argument was with the statement that not receiving Communion is a big deal for (implied ALL) Catholics and that is just not true. I am just fine with going to mass and not receiving Communion - and I am hardly the only one who does this. I understand that you ladies clearly would not be okay with this. Hence, once again, why I advised that her FI meet with his parish priest before making any decisions. You cannot presume to know what he believes because we don't all personally believe the same things or have the same concerns, even if we are all part of the same church.

As for the rest, I was answering Carrie's question as to why I still call myself a Catholic. Anyone who wants to criticize my beliefs and what I find to be most important in my relationship with God and what I get out of the Church is welcome to do so.

Tami87 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_xp-just-out-of-curiosity?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:654d6de7-bccc-4c6c-8724-3b1b5db74d82Post:52897dd1-9670-4a0f-837c-f2158be95153">Re:XP: just out of curiosity</a>:
[QUOTE]Those of us that do find everything we believe lining up with the church, have usuall studied it extensively, gone through periods of doubts and question the teachings, and come out the other side after lots of reading. So many people reject the teachings of the faith without understanding them.
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

This exactly. And I also agree with pretty much everything Riss wrote. This board is full of ladies who are practicing Catholics and try to follow the faith. I think many of us, myself included, have shared that there were times in the past where we completely disagreed with many church teachings until we really started to research them. When people ask questions we are going to respond with what the church teaches. I think it is unfair to say that we are being exclusive.

Resa77 · March 2013

GLB, I am sorry you feel this way. I, like Riss, do NOT think someone should stop calling themselves Catholic because they don't believe every single teaching. Like Riss, and many others on this board, I have certainly had my doubts on some teachings of the Church, too. Once you're baptized, you are Catholic, and have the right to call yourself that. FWIW, I DO consider you Catholic.

Riss91 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_xp-just-out-of-curiosity?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:654d6de7-bccc-4c6c-8724-3b1b5db74d82Post:7dfd72af-e985-40e0-8402-c69a3691c340">Re: XP: just out of curiosity</a>:
[QUOTE]Nobody is asking anybody to speak against the Catholic faith, Riss. <strong> My problem is the vibe of this board that really does give the impression that if you do not follow the catechism word for word, if you do not obey everything the church says, then you are not a real Catholic and should not call yourself a Catholic</strong>. If this is what the Church was really like, I would have converted to my DH's Greek Orthodoxy long agao. When you are talking to other Catholics, I let it roll off my back. When you are answering the question of someone who is not Catholic and proceed tell her what her FI believes, that is when I get angry. My original argument was with the statement that not receiving Communion is a big deal for ( implied ALL ) Catholics and that is just not true. I am just fine with going to mass and not receiving Communion - and I am hardly the only one who does this. <strong> I understand that you ladies clearly would not be okay with this.</strong> Hence, once again , why I advised that her FI meet with his parish priest before making any decisions. <strong>You cannot presume to know what he believes because we don't all personally believe the same things or have the same concerns, even if we are all part of the same church.</strong> As for the rest, I was answering Carrie's question as to why I still call myself a Catholic. Anyone who wants to criticize my beliefs and what I find to be most important in my relationship with God and what I get out of the Church is welcome to do so.
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]

1) I agree that there are people that don't believe someone should consider themselves Catholic if they don't believe in some of the basic doctrine. But, I think there are many here that don't feel that way, and are helpful and kind to those that aren't 100% on board with everything. I just think the former group might stick out more, or leave a larger impression.

2) Catholics aren't required to receive communion except for once a year, so no - most of us would be okay with that. Also - we all agree that everyone has free will and must do what they feel comfortable with. Sure we would encourage those in a state of grace to receive regularly - bc it is benefical to you. Resa mentioned in the "blessings" thread that she doesn't receive even when she is able to. No one attacked her.

3) No one was presuming anything. The comment was a generalization of "Catholics". No one said "your FI absolutely believes this". In fact, since the OP mentioned FI being agnostic, I'm pretty sure the reference to "Catholics" would not be specific to the FI. However, I don't think it's wrong of you to mention that some Catholics do not receive communion regularly. I just think it would be obvious that other Catholics would want to ensure that OP understood this isn't what the Church would encourage.

I'm sorry if you feel your faith/beliefs have been criticized. I think we can all relate to that!

OP - I'm sorry we have de-railed your post! Hopefully, somewhere in here we have given you the information you need! Please let us know if you have any further questions!

Riss91 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_xp-just-out-of-curiosity?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:654d6de7-bccc-4c6c-8724-3b1b5db74d82Post:8b42a731-3b67-4a81-a9a7-66c1c56457ff">Re: XP: just out of curiosity</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: XP: just out of curiosity : You do understand that this entire thing stemmed from someone specifically questioning WHY GLB (and those who feel like she does) calls herself a Catholic, right? Hence the "exclusionary" issue. I would think you would be questioning and not understanding the poster who said that, not the person defending herself against it, if that is how you truly feel.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

Yes, I understand that some do feel that way. I can't change how they feel. I can and I do try to express that I do not agree with that stance. I just think it unfair to accuse an entire board of people of doing this.

I also do think that sometimes people are simply curious as to what makes that person feel connected to the Catholic Church in those instances. So the question may come off as an exclusionary "casting-out" when they are simply trying to understand.

monkeysip · March 2013

A person is Catholic in as much as they unite themselves with Christ's Catholic Church.

Those who are baptized are Catholic in the most basic sense. Baptism leaves an indelible mark.

A "practicing Catholic" is one who receives the eucharist and penance once a year.

However... it doesn't end there. And no one, I don't care WHAT faith you are, should be concerned with doing the bare minimum. That's pure legalism.

By that same token, every Catholic fails to be Catholic to some degree or another. But it shouldn't be anyone's concern to try and point out how Catholic someone else is. It SHOULD be everyone's concern to look at themselves and seek to be more Catholic every single day. Doing the bare minimum is a very sad way to live your life. Any religion that isn't worth committing your whole life too isn't worth any commitment at all.

agapecarrie · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_xp-just-out-of-curiosity?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:654d6de7-bccc-4c6c-8724-3b1b5db74d82Post:8b42a731-3b67-4a81-a9a7-66c1c56457ff">Re: XP: just out of curiosity</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: XP: just out of curiosity : You do understand that this entire thing stemmed from someone specifically questioning WHY GLB (and those who feel like she does) calls herself a Catholic, right? Hence the "exclusionary" issue. I would think you would be questioning and not understanding the poster who said that, not the person defending herself against it, if that is how you truly feel.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

<div>I want to clarify-- I was not questions GLB specifically, nor saying someone shouldn't call themselves catholic. </div><div>
</div><div>It was an honest question out of curiosity why someone would want the identity of being catholic but not even believe in the very central part of the faith-- the one that everything else comes from. </div><div>
</div><div>I do not think at all that this is "exclusionary".</div><div>
</div><div>This is the same thing as someone saying they are vegetarian but eat meat. By the very definition of what it means to be vegeterian, means not eating meat. (yes I know there are different definitions of vegetarian...I'm just trying to get across the point). </div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

XP: just out of curiosity

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