proper invitation wording help

jbifro · January 2010

Does anyone have any idea of the proper way to word my invitations regarding the following circumstances? I would prefer to include my fiance's parents names on the invitations because they are helping out (paying) with part of the wedding and I feel like it would be nice to recognize them. (My parents are paying for the majority of it.) My parents are divorced. My Dad is remarried but my Mom is not and she still has my Dad's last name. I can't figure out how to word it. Good luck!

Here is a key to go by: my Dad's name: John Doe, my Mom's name is Mary Doe, stepmom's name is Lisa Doe, fiances parents names are Dr. and Mrs. Jim Smith.

tb583 · January 2010

If it were me, with that many names I would say Together with their parents.

rschuckman · January 2010

Mrs. Mary Doe
Mr. and Mrs. John and Lisa Doe
and
Dr. and Mrs. Jim Smith
request the honour of your presence at the marriage of their dauther
to.....

or

Mrs. Mary Doe
Mr. and Mrs. John and Lisa Doe
request the honour of your presence...
Bride's name
to
Groom's name
son of Dr. and Mrs. Jim Smith

hrparker · January 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/local-wedding-boards_ohio-cincinnati_proper-invitation-wording?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Local%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:108Discussion:0003720f-bcb6-4fa7-bed2-3036f4d801d8Post:03c871c7-6004-4b6b-a217-16e8eee28ffa">Re: proper invitation wording help</a>:
[QUOTE]Mrs. Mary Doe Mr. and Mrs. John and Lisa Doe and Dr. and Mrs. Jim Smith request the honour of your presence at the marriage of their dauther to..... or Mrs. Mary Doe Mr. and Mrs. John and Lisa Doe request the honour of your presence... Bride's name to Groom's name son of Dr. and Mrs. Jim Smith
Posted by rschuckman[/QUOTE]

Ditto both posters -- though if you're going to use shuckman's examples, I'd recommend putting your FI's mother's name on there as well. Otherwise, just use together with their families (or parents).

ETA: I just noticed that you didn't share a first name for your FI's mother. Is she not comfortable with having her first name listed? If she's a strict traitionalist and WANTS to be known as "Mrs. Jim," then its fine to put it that way - otherwise, list it as "Dr. and Mrs. Jim and Janice Smith."

hccpsu · January 2010

Traditionally, you do not include the wife's name in the "Mr. and Mrs." I've never received an invitation that included the wife's name and would find it a little odd, personally. The only case when the woman's name is included with "Mrs" is in the case of your mom, who is divorced (and then, of course, there's no "Mr"). Those are the traditional rules--I know not everyone agrees with them, but that's what the etiquette standards are in the references I checked.

I'm not thrilled with being referred to as "Mr and Mrs John Smith," because I use my maiden and married names, but in cases like this I suck it up.

hrparker · January 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/local-wedding-boards_ohio-cincinnati_proper-invitation-wording?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Local%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:108Discussion:0003720f-bcb6-4fa7-bed2-3036f4d801d8Post:e3f65235-a0ed-4b40-9987-22cae77d59d2">Re: proper invitation wording help</a>:
[QUOTE]Traditionally, you do not include the wife's name in the "Mr. and Mrs." I've never received an invitation that included the wife's name and would find it a little odd, personally. The only case when the woman's name is included with "Mrs" is in the case of your mom, who is divorced (and then, of course, there's no "Mr"). Those are the traditional rules--I know not everyone agrees with them, but that's what the etiquette standards are in the references I checked. I'm not thrilled with being referred to as "Mr and Mrs John Smith," because I use my maiden and married names, but in cases like this I suck it up.
Posted by hccpsu[/QUOTE]

Etiquette and tradtion are two different things. Tradition is...well...tradition. It's the way things have been done in the past. Etiquette, on the other hand, invoves making your guests (or in these case your parents) feel comfortable, and making sure that everyone is taken care of.

To follow etiquette, if OP's FI's mother wants to be referred to as Mr. John Smith, then that's how the invitation should read. But if she wants to be referred to as Mrs. Jane Smith, then she should be referred to as Mrs. Jane Smith.

Imo, following a sexist tradition solely for tradition's sake isn't "proper" - it sexist, and it continues to prop up sexist belief systems that have no business being followed.

hccpsu · January 2010

Yes, HR, I've read your comments regarding sexism before, and everyone is entitled to their opinions. As I said, I prefer to be addressed by my full name as well. But f an etiquette book provides wording, then, actually, that IS etiquette, even if its roots are based in tradition. Preference is something entirely different, and everyone is free to follow the example they wish.

I do agree it's up to the stepmother and groom's mother as to how they wish to be addressed; I simply provided the etiquette standards, even if you choose to deem them sexist.

hrparker · January 2010

hcc,

The problem is that what you're describing isn't etiquette - it's tradition. That's why I pointed out the difference between the two. They are completely different things. Some traditional ideas can be found in etiquette, and some etiquette standards are traditional, but the two are not completely overlapping cirlcles - they're more like a venn diagram.

As for etiquette books, I can point to a dozen "etiquette" sources that agree with me, too. Just because something is written in an etiquette book doesn't mean that it's actual etiquette - anyone can write a book about etiquette and get it published, that doesn't necessarily mean that they know what they're talking about.

Basically, the only thing you need to know about etiquette is, no matter what you're doing, the only thing you really need to worry about is whether or not you're making your guests comfortable. And if making your guests comfortable bucks tradition, then so be it. ACTUAL Etiquette trumps tradition any day, imho.

hccpsu · January 2010

As I said, people will choose to follow whatever suits them (which I guess is why I get wedding invitations that include registry information). But I'm curious, if etiquette is about making your guests comfortable, did you poll your guests to see on how they preferred to be addressed, or did you simply do what made YOU comfortable, which I believe was to not follow the traditional "Mr. and Mrs. John Smith"?

Every single one of my RSVPs for couples came back filled in by the guests as "Mr. and Mrs. John Smith," so from that, I surmise that none of my guests minded tradition. I was surprised that even the women that have kept their maiden names sent back their RVSPs as "Mr. and Mrs." Possibly someday I'll receive an invitation from "Mr. and Mrs. John and Jane Smith," but I've never received one yet, so I guess everyone I know is a traditionalist and sexist to boot.

hrparker · January 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/local-wedding-boards_ohio-cincinnati_proper-invitation-wording?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Local%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:108Discussion:0003720f-bcb6-4fa7-bed2-3036f4d801d8Post:822f3be3-a949-4d9d-aa2c-c6350b6647c1">Re: proper invitation wording help</a>:
[QUOTE]As I said, people will choose to follow whatever suits them (which I guess is why I get wedding invitations that include registry information). But I'm curious, if etiquette is about making your guests comfortable, did you poll your guests to see on how they preferred to be addressed, or did you simply do what made YOU comfortable, which I believe was to not follow the traditional "Mr. and Mrs. John Smith"?
Posted by hccpsu[/QUOTE]

Actually, I did. <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-tongue-out.gif" border="0" alt="Tongue out" title="Tongue out" />

Almost all of our "younger" guests wanted to be addressed as Mrs. Jane Smith, though I did have a couple of more traditional friends who wanted to be addressed as Mrs. John Smith, so we did their invites that way. Of our parents' friends, most wanted to be addressed as Mrs. Jane Smith, as well, though we did have a couple of Mrs. John Smiths. Also, one of my great uncle's had recently passed, and while my great aunt normally would have preferred Mrs. Jane Smith, my aunt told me that for now, she's going by Mrs. John Smith (as a way to remember him), so we addressed hers to Mrs. John Smith. I guess I just know a lot of less traditional people...

jbifro · January 2010

Hey, sorry it took me awhile to respond. I haven't decided if I will list their names or not. It seems like a little much so I might just stick with 'Together with their families...'
HRparker- I didn't realize that adding my FMIL's name was an option. I was taught/have always known to refer to them as Dr. and Mrs. John Smith. Thanks for another perspective.
Thank you to everyone who responded! I appreciate it!!

hccpsu · January 2010

jbifro, we kind of hijacked your thread--sorry about that! The only thing I'd say is if you list all the parents' names, you'll probably want to be consistent. Either use both first names for both sets of parents, or just the husband's name. Check with your stepmom and FMIL and see what they prefer. If it's different, then maybe use "together with their families."

hccpsu · January 2010

HR, I guess your female guests must have some level of traditionalism, or they wouldn't have taken their husband's name in the first place. It's interesting to see where people draw the line.

IG.muse · January 2010

I have to butt in too, sorry. Etiquette will change as social norms change. Not everyone feels that anything has to change socially, but hr and I are those who do. Maybe in time more people will stop following this tradition blindly and start thinking about what feels right to them and then etiquette books will talk about how Mr. and Mrs. John Smith is an antiquated way of addressing people and that a more egalitarian approach should be used.

Etiquette does change. And sometimes tradition is called etiquette and is only recognized as tradition in retrospect. Old etiquette books have rules for the bride on when to wear gloves, when to take them off, and what color they should be. They also talk about the mothers wearing hats and small veils. It's true that Mr. and Mrs. John Smith is still accepted etiquette, but change has to start somewhere. I try to be aware of any wedding related etiquette rules so as not to offend anyone. And I post a lot of etiquette related questions. But I don't follow all the rules blindly, I chose the ones that make sense to me and discard the ones that I feel are wrong for me, my FI, and my guests.

I don't mean to start or perpetuate an argument. I just wanted to express my opinion because I feel strongly about this.

As for why women who are supposedly non-traditionalists take their husbands' last names, I think that's a more difficult issue to deal with. It's very easy to address an envelope as Mr. and Mrs. John and Jane Smith, but for a woman to keep her last name causes all sorts of logistical problems for the family. A great grand daughter might end up having 5 last names. I do wish men wouldn't mind taking the woman's last name, but I don't think that's something that the wide majority of people would feel comfortable with in my lifetime.

hccpsu · January 2010

You're right about the man changing his name.... I said to my husband before we were even engaged that some men change their names, and his reply was "Well, that's just stupid!" My husband isn't one for any tradition, I think, except the name change. Our compromise was that I'd use both (I didn't want to change but realized it was very important to him, so I agreed). However, just the other day when I got some mail that had been messed up (maiden and married names reserved) he commented that he didn't know why I used "three frickin' names, no one else does!" I decided to not even open THAT can of worms at the moment

I told him had I chosen to be "Jane Ann Smith" I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have gotten mail addressed to "Jane Smith Ann," so I couldn't understand why people have SO much difficulty with "Jane Jones Smith," but I've been amazed at how almost every place has screwed it up.

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