Annoyed at... everyone telling me not to go to law school...or the truth?

Norway_T · November 2009

I have a masters in human rights /international law, and am a director of a human rights program. I am paid decently for the non-profit field and get to travel.

But really my job isn't so great, I am a glorified secretary with no job security. (My contracts are never for more than 6 months, and I will never be able to get a permanent position).

I have searched high and low for other human rights and development jobs, and they don't pay anything, secondly, they are impossible to get(Everyone wants to save the world, so the jobs are competitive. ) and most are temporary.
This creates a very hostile work environment, where people are more concerned about keeping their jobs than the actual work they are doing. Not something I want to do for the rest of my life.

SO AS HARD AND EXPENSIVE as law school is, I want to go. I do have some background in law and feel that I could be a good lawyer.

I am fine having a job where I am not saving the world, in order to gain some job security and a decent ( not high-paid) salary. I really would like to go into family or criminal law. I just want an average 9-5 job, where I have to work hard and am challenged, but don't have to be a slave to my employer.

I wonder if LAW is SO bad that I won't be able to get what I want. From all the blogs and what everyone says, they say run while you have the chance.

OK run. But whereto? Do I put more effort into finding a better job in my field?(Really I am not sure one exists that I could get, after 2 years of looking).

Do I go back in get another Bachelors in science or math-fields are that are actually in demand?

DO I get an MBA?

I really though law is what I wanted, and I¨ve always enjoyed it, but really what everyone says about going to law school and being a lawyer scares me.

notquiteblushing · November 2009

I can imagine your frustration. I think most lawyers, including myself, are cautioning people NOT to go to law school expecting to graduate automatically with 1) a job, 2) a means of paying back the enormous debt law school usually comes with. I was lucky to graduate in 2006 when the market wasn't so bad, but I was not vying for a BIGLAW job which would have paid a crap ton of money and allowed me to pay my debt back faster. I did find a job I loved in the field that I wanted to pursue so I've been lucky in that respect. On the other hand, hard core debt repayment is now just a regular part of my life and will be for the next few years.

Also, a lot of people go to law school without any sort of clear goals in mind. You are interested in family law. Okay. So why don't you try to get in touch with some family law practioners and learn all you can their day to day life, salary schedule, career satisfaction, etc. That way if you decide to go you'll get an idea of what to expect.

And, just like with the nonprofit career issues you're experiencing, those "saving the world" jobs that lawyers occupy, though they pay peanuts, are super competitive too.

Have you taken the LSAT?

**Mutley** · November 2009

I don't look at law as a regular 9-5 job.
My SIL and BIL are lawyers. It might be different because they are both in corporate law. She scaled back to 80% once they had a child. She still works more than 40 hours/week. He is on the partner track. He works all of the time. And when I say all of the time, I mean literally all the time. He goes in spurts where he works for 30 days straight and gets about 5 hrs of sleep/night.
And as far as job security, I guess you can hope that it is better in a couple of years. Both of their firms have had serious layoffs this year.

Acrosthec · November 2009

I love the law. I went to law school purely because I had an interest in learning about the law and wanted to go into transactional law (real estate, wills, etc.). If you have that interest, and you have a specific path you want to go down, then pursue it. However, what NQB and Mutley have both said is true.

FI graduated in May 2007 and got his dream job in his dream location. I graduated in May 2008. I have been licensed in GA since Nov. 2008, and SC for the past few months. Even though I graduated fairly well in my class and am licensed in 2 states, I cannot find a job as an attorney (Oh what a difference a year made...). I am a law clerk - a glorified research monkey/secretary - with no promise that I'll still even have this job tomorrow. The firm I work for is losing money this year hand over fist and cannot do anything about it. I am *extremely* lucky that I found a job at all, and that I graduated without any debt, but most people I graduated with are not in that position. Law firms in Atlanta, even the BIGLAW ones, are farming out their new associates to do non-profit work and gain experience until they can afford to pay them; right now the starting date given to most of the top graduates from my law school in 2009 is January 2012.

The market for lawyers right now SUCKS. Do not graduate expecting to get a job AT ALL, much less one you actually enjoy. Even the non-profits are so full of the BIGLAW kids that are farmed out, they are having difficulties finding places for people to work for them. One of my best friends is actually volunteering at a DA's office in Atlanta because he can't even find anyone that will actually pay him to work. He has $100,000 in loans and gave up a wonderful job to attend law school, which he now can't get back.

Like I said, if you enjoy learning and think it might be interesting, law school is wonderful for people who are scholars and enjoy the pursuit of knowledge. But please don't go expecting to get a great job/salary, because the market is just not supporting that right now. However, if you start in Fall 2010, you won't be out until 2013, so with any luck the market will have improved somewhat by then. Best of luck in whatever you decide.

And to Mutley~ I think it does depend not only on what type of law you do, but where you are and how big the firm is. A lot of big firm corporate lawyers work insane hours, but the attorneys in my office usually bill between 40-60 hours a week, which I think is pretty acceptable.

**Mutley** · November 2009

Acro, I figured that was the case. They live in San Francisco, so that is probably part of it as well. It was great to see him be able to kick back at our wedding. It was his first day off in about 2 months.

He closed down the dance floor.

desertsun · November 2009

What about becoming a legal assistant or paralegal? It seems that if firms are trying to save money and can't afford to hire new lawyers, they may need lots of paralegals to help out. I know it doesn't pay as much, but the training has to be cheaper and the hours more regular?

Anon I. Mouse · November 2009

I went back to law school after years of feeling frustrated as a glorified secretary too

My honest opinion - I love it. I loved going back to school and I LOVE practicing law. I love the flexibility, the autonomy, my coworkers, the challenge, the difficulties, the legal community, going to court...all of it.

I heard all the horror stories too...many of them are fairly true...law school is hard...and learning the practice of law is hard...however it does not have to as hard as some make it to be. Good study habits help. As does having a good balance and the ability to have manageable expectations of yourself and your future career in law.

It is not easy to do, however it is quite possible to have regular hours, a good amount of life-work balance and an interesting challenge all at once while practicing law. I had to make the choice to move out of a big city to a smaller city, to a smaller firm, to do it, but I am doing it. However, I have to make a conscious effort to do so, and even in my private time, there is still a professional responsibility there (i.e. be careful what I get involved with in my time out of the office). It is not as easy as leaving it all at the office, though you certainly can maintain a balance. I bill about 40-50 hours a week and generally have weekends off (though I may put in a couple extra hours here and there). Articling year (which they have in Canada) is a bit tougher as in one still needs to take extra classes/bar admission courses while they work.

The trade off is that I only make a "decent" salary, and I still have many years of law school debt left as I don't make THAT much (many of my peers still in the bigger cities make far more, but also put in a lot more hours, have higher cost of living, and carry a lot more stress).

However, be aware family law (of which I do practice in a bit, though not entirely as I am in a general firm) is time-consuming and mentally draining, if you do not set boundaries early on. Clients do think they can call you whenever about anything (they see you as a therapist at times to vent to about their exes, etc)...and they will if they can get awayw ith it.

Be aware that the job market is tougher now as others advised, and be aware that you may get sucked into very long and demanding hours - particularly early on, and even later, and depending on where you are such hours may be necessary to earn your "spot" so to speak.

Norway_T · November 2009

Thanks for all the honest perspectives, I really apprciate hearing them. I have applied to 16 schools now. My first choice is either DU or CU in Colorado, since I am from there, but really I am planning on going to the place that offers me the best scholarships... I am really hoping that I can get out of law school, without enormous debt. We will see.

jennyp08 · November 2009

Hey;

I just wanted to say good luck with the application process! I'm half way done with law school, and I do NOT regret going. Everyone bitches about how hard and horrible it is, but I figure its the degree thats going to get me where I want to go in life, so I suck it up and deal with it.

Good luck!

babybchbum · November 2009

Good Luck with the application process. Everyone can achieve their goals if they just put their mind to it.

Norway_T · November 2009

Thanks for the encouragment and postive words..I needed them. I've sent in most my applications, so now it is just the waiting game.

GulfCoaster · November 2009

The recent law school graduates telling you not to go to law school are speaking the truth about the job market. It's brutal out there -- and it's brutal almost everywhere, not just in the big cities like NYC and DC that are saturated with lawyers. Ads for a single entry level position paying $40,000 are drawing hundreds (yes, hundreds) of applications in many markets. There are thousands upon thousands of unemployed lawyers in this country, and the legal job market is just not getting better.

To top things off, the US law schools are turning out about 180,000 new graduates each year. The American Bar Association magazine recently did an article about how, even in the best economy, there are not enough jobs for all those graduates. Another recent article covered profs who are calling for schools to publish accurate data of what their graduates are doing. http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/aba_should_publish_better_job_info_for_naive_law_students_prof_says/

Ultimately, the choice of whether to go to law school is up to you, but I advise you to take a long, hard look at the job market statistics before you jump into three years and $150,000 for a degree that might not get you a job. I love practicing law, but the job market is brutal.

GulfCoaster · November 2009

P.S. You've been invited by several posters on the Nest's Money Matters board to go over there and discuss with them whether or not to go to law school. There are a *ton* of lawyers who post on that board. Here's a link for you: http://community.thenest.com/cs/ks/forums/4110110/ShowForum.aspx

VAJuneBride07 · November 2009

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_annoyed-everyone-telling-not-law-schoolor-truth?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:f9a01f63-8483-4db9-bfd2-e111f5d32d82Post:ea1de2b0-7b8a-4319-87ef-1ce39315b867">Annoyed at... everyone telling me not to go to law school...or the truth?</a>:
[QUOTE]
I just want an average 9-5 job, where I have to work hard and am challenged, but don't have to be a slave to my employer.
Posted by Norway_T[/QUOTE]

I work 9 until .... (insert 7:30pm is the earliest I leave, but usually goes much much later). If you come out with more than 50K in student loans, expect that you will need to work at a firm for at least a few years and you will NOT work anything close to 9 to 5. 10 hours a day minimum, and some time on the weekend, EACH weekend. Most days are closer to 12. After 5+ years in the business you have a chance to get a "part time" job where you work 9-5.

That said, I like what I do. But I never expected to work 9 to 5.

Norway_T · November 2009

I am spoiled, very spoiled from the Norwegian system. Summer hours are 8 to 3 and winter hours are 8 to 4.

I often work 9 to 430 (skipping lunch). It is a lovely life style.

I have learned to appreciate life, I work hard, and sometimes over time, but I enjoy life outside of work too.

You might be right that it is unrealistic to expect, something similar in the US particularly if I want to become a lawyer.

Annoyed at... everyone telling me not to go to law school...or the truth?

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