Annulment/convalidation question

jeanne76 · April 2010

Hi everyone -- I'm new to these boards and also an encore bride. (I'm divorced.) My fiance is Catholic, I'm Protestant, but open to being married in the Catholic church. However, since I'm divorced, we're well aware that I would need to seek a Catholic annulment of my first marriage. I am more than willing to do this -- I see it as a gift I can give to my future hubby and a wonderful way to demonstrate how much I support him in his faith.

But here's the hitch... my fiance's priest has told us that the process can take as long as 15 months, and neither one of us is getting any younger. We were hoping to be married in mid-March of 2011 (we've known each other a very long time -- 13 years -- and are eager to start our lives together and start a family) but the annulment process would likely push our wedding back to at least the fall of 2011 since we won't be able to get started on the annulment paperwork until June of this year at the earliest. (In addition to everything else, we're having a bi-coastal engagement and we won't be able to meet with the priest together to begin the process until the next time I'm out there, which is early June.)

So here's what we were considering.... start the annulment process as planned, but get married as tentatively scheduled (in a civil ceremony of some sort) in March 2011, and then have our marriage convalidated by the Church once the annulment of my first marriage is granted. My fiance understands that by marrying outside the Church he wouldn't be able to receive the sacrament (at least temporarily) until we can have our marriage convalidated, and he's indicated that he's OK with that.

Has anyone done something similar to this or have any advice to share? Is what we're considering a terrible thing, or have we come up with a reasonable compromise? I'll state again that I'm 100% unopposed to the annulment and to having our marriage convalidated, and I would even be willing to wait until the annulment is granted before getting married (although that would not be my -- or his -- first choice.) We'd of course talk this option over with the priest as well as with my fiance's family -- the last thing I would want is to create a rift between my fiance and his family or between him and his priest, so if we have to wait we will wait. I was just curious if anyone else out there had any experience with this sort of thing and if so I would love to hear your insight!

Thanks so much!

Calypso1977 · April 2010

there are some folks that do that, but in my opinion it really isnt a good idea. its as if you are starting the marriage off on teh wrong foot, intentionally. also, it isnt always so simple to get a convalidation - you will have many questions to answer, and the convalidation may or may not be granted based upon the reasons you give.

yes, annulments can take a very long time. however, yours may or may not.

the fact that you are not catholic may help. its much harder/longer for catholics to get annulments. also, do you have children from your first marriage? that may or may not impact the speed of the annulment.

i suppose if you are hesitant to wait because you are considering children with your new spouse and that is why age is a concern, then i can see why you might be anxious. however, those children would be born to parents that in the church's eyes are not legitimately married. this may or may not cause you problems with having those children baptized. some priests will baptize any children, regardless, most want to make sure they are baptizing a child that will be raised in the faith. if its parents are not legitimately married in teh eyes of the church, this may raise questions, and i know i wouldnt want to risk not being able to have my child baptized. that is probably an extreme scenario, but it can happen.

Karen's MOH · April 2010

My brother and his fiance are doing something very similar. He is divorced and going through the process of an annulment, but like you, neither of them are getting any younger and they want to have a family. They have decided to get married at an Episcopal church-- the first Episcopal priest they met with turned them down flat, saying they were just looking for a way of getting around the Catholic churc, which the acknowledged was true. However they met with another priest (reverand?) who will marry them at her church. They hope to get a Catholic covalidation once the annulment goes though, though they realize that isn't 100% guaranteed.

However, I have never heard of a priest refusing to baptize a child, regardless of the parents' marital status. I know of a few single mom's with baptized babies.

Sorry to go on for so long, but I don't think what you are suggesting is wrong at all (as long as your FI is ok with it). Just go in knowing that you can't guarantee that the covalidation will work out. Also, my family is very Catholic and conservative, and they are all fine with my brother's situation.

Riss91 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_annulmentconvalidation-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:7b3accda-5ed5-4f99-9bb7-8f48811a0173Post:4cdbd9ed-03bd-41fa-b13b-2f83df063b62">Re: Annulment/convalidation question</a>:
[QUOTE]They have decided to get married at an Episcopal church-- the first Episcopal priest they met with turned them down flat, saying they were just looking for a way of getting around the Catholic churc, which the acknowledged was true. However they met with another priest (reverand?) who will marry them at her church. They hope to get a Catholic covalidation once the annulment goes though, though they realize that isn't 100% guaranteed.
Posted by Karen's MOH[/QUOTE]

Have they spokoen to a Catholic priest about their plans? I've never heard of anyone getting married in a different church and then asking for a convalidation. I've usually only heard of instances where a couple gets married by a JOP first, and not a religious ceremony. Just curious if their Catholic priest was okay with it...

agapecarrie · April 2010

You have to understand that the church considers and presumes all marriages valid until proven otherwise. There is no divorce in the Catholic Church (and according to Christ in Scripture). An annulment is not a divorce or disolving of a marriage. It declares, after investigating, that the marriage wasn't valid in the first place. So, you are still considered married (regardless of legal status). It also honors other faiths, has having valid marriages (those that aren't baptized are valid but not sacramental)

So, if you were to attempt marriage without getting your first marriage declared nullified, it is a public state of adultery, which is why he would be removing himself from union with the church.

Annulments are never guaranteed. Attempting a civil marriage ahead of getting one sets you up for a disaster should one not be granted. It's also presumptiuous to say "I'm going outside the church, we'll just be forgiven later".

I hope everything works out.

mica178 · April 2010

Nullifications can be fairly quick and painless, if you were not married in any church and have no children with your ex-husband. I was an unusual case, but once I filled out that paperwork, mine was granted in less than a month.

to have a convalidation, you'll still need to do all of the Catholic premarital counseling. Much can be done on separate coasts with different priests, so if you want to get started now, you can. Showing that you're interested in honoring your FI's religious background might make things "more comfortable" with your FILs.

agapecarrie · April 2010

Full out Annulments are not fast....what mica might be referring to is a "lack of form" when a Catholic marries outisde the church, because a Catholic is bound to correct form and matter for marriages. 2 non-Catholics that marry either in their own church or in a courthouse/outside, etc are presumed to have valid marriages.

Full out annulments must collect all the information (which is actually the part that takes the longest-- finding witnesses, etc), then having a tribunal court, then sending it to another diocese for a 2nd opinion (not the official term).

Karen's MOH · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_annulmentconvalidation-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:7b3accda-5ed5-4f99-9bb7-8f48811a0173Post:6f15770b-c39a-4ec6-b139-cf2d80b0260e">Re: Annulment/convalidation question</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Annulment/convalidation question : Have they spokoen to a Catholic priest about their plans? I've never heard of anyone getting married in a different church and then asking for a convalidation. I've usually only heard of instances where a couple gets married by a JOP first, and not a religious ceremony. Just curious if their Catholic priest was okay with it...
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

I'm honestly not sure about that. It does seem like they should if these are their plans, but I also know they want to get married whether or not they can do so in the Catholic church at any point.

Theresa626 · April 2010

Honestly, if I were you, that's what I would do and I think it sounds like a good idea.

mica178 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_annulmentconvalidation-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:7b3accda-5ed5-4f99-9bb7-8f48811a0173Post:33a94ee5-4f83-4a79-bb00-1ddaf5b4938c">Re: Annulment/convalidation question</a>:
[QUOTE]Full out Annulments are not fast....what mica might be referring to is a "lack of form" when a Catholic marries outisde the church, because a Catholic is bound to correct form and matter for marriages. 2 non-Catholics that marry either in their own church or in a courthouse/outside, etc are presumed to have valid marriages. Full out annulments must collect all the information (which is actually the part that takes the longest-- finding witnesses, etc), then having a tribunal court, then sending it to another diocese for a 2nd opinion (not the official term).
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

You're absolutely right. Sorry. That's what I had. A lack of form, since we never married in the church (and never lived together - long story) and I am Catholic. I believe it's still faster for non-Catholics to get the nullification than for Catholics to get the nullification because while the Church recognizes those marriages as valid , they also recognize that those non-Catholics were not bound to Catholic expections. My understanding is those nullifications take about 3 months if you get everything lined up. The full out nullifications take 1-1.5 years but those are usually for Catholics married in the chuch with kids.

ETA: it'd be considered a bad thing if you got married (civilly or otherwise) before the nullification came through. Get started ASAP!

jonandkrissy · May 2010

My FI and I actually just met with my priest today. He is not Catholic and was previously married through JOP in another country. The amount of time is going to vary based on your Archdiocese and how quickly they process the requests. We live in Oklahoma, and our priest said the annulment process is anywhere from 6 mo to 1 year here, and it GREATLY depends on how quickly you and your witnesses get your paperwork in. He advised us not to plan the wedding any sooner than 12 months from the date his initial paperwork was filed, just to be safe, even though he said based on the information he is submitting there is no doubt in his mind that the annulment will be approved and most likely closer to the 6 month mark.

If you do decide to get married before the annulment is finalized, just be sure that you talk to your FI's priest and be certain that he is comfortable with what you are doing. I know you are anxious, but be sure you are not putting your FI's good standing with the Church in jeopardy.

As far as children go, the Chruch's main concern will be that you are agreeing to raise the children Catholic. They are not going to punish a child and not baptize them just because their parents didn't get married in the church. (We have a 19 mo old daughter together, and my church is very strict on following all the rules on required paperwork. When we had her baptized they were more concerned with the godparents' documentation than mine, and they were aware that we were not married.)

Good luck!

Calypso1977 · May 2010

They are not going to punish a child and not baptize them just because their parents didn't get married in the church.

some wont baptize if they have leigitmate concerns that hte child wont be brought up in the faith, particularly very "old school" traditional priests. i've seen it. a girl i knew had a baby out of wedlock and while she and teh father were living together, they didnt seem to have any plan to marry any time soon, nor were tbey even church-goers. she asked 3 priests before seh finally found one who would baptize the baby.

LuluP82 · May 2010

As for baptism issues, I actually have an uncle who had a LOT of trouble finding a priest to baptize his children from his 2nd marriage, since the 1st marriage was never annulled. Since he and his 2nd wife had married outside the church, they expressed the concern that the children would not be brought up in the faith. Granted, it was in Latin America and not in the US, but it does happen on occasion, so it's best to be prepared.

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