LONG: Invite fiance's well-meaning, but completely inappropriate, coworker/"friend" (LONG)

NOLAbridealmost · November 2010

Hi Knotties.

I need your help on this one, sorry that this is going to be really long, but I think that it is all necessary to make a well thought-out decision.

The scenario:

My fiance manages a very small restaurant. On weekdays, there are usually only two people working: a manager/cook, and a waiter. The potential guest in question is one of the waiters. On an average week, FI spends 20 hours alone in the restaurant with this guy. The other 20-30 hours a week, there are other employees; two of which are good friends of mine and FI. The two that are good friends are, of course, invited to the wedding.

The waiter in question:

A former gay prostitute/low budget film star (I swear to God I am not making this up) who moved here and started working at the restaurant after getting run over by a car, defaulting on his medical bills, and getting denied a visa to move to England because he (quote) had "no skills."

He's generally a pretty nice person. He doesn't have a mean bone in his body. He really tries to be a good friend. I have every reason to believe that he means well, but he is so, so, SO inappropriate in social situations. The most recent incident that lead me to question whether to invite him to the wedding happened on Thanksgiving. My grandmother, parents and siblings were in town and because I know that he has no family in N.O., I invited him over to have Thanksgiving with us. He has a history of being really inappropriate in public, but I figured that around my grandmother and parents he'd know to behave himself.

Heh. I was wrong. He accused FI of being an alcoholic (he's not), told my 17 year old brother to call him when he turns 18 because he is hot, and asked my grandmother "Are you the one who hates (FI)?" (she is).

This is not the only time he's been completely out of control. I attended a wedding once where he was also a guest. Because he had no date, he spent the entire night following the bride and groom around and asking what was going on afterwards. It literally didn't occur to him that they might have other guests to attend to or that they might want to be ALONE after the reception.

So at this point, I am sure many of you are just thinking, "don't invite him. He's crazy." But it's more complicated than that. He literally seems to have some sort of problem understanding social cues. FI barely tolerates him at work, yet somehow the guy thinks that FI is like his best friend. He was shocked when he learned that he wasn't going to be the best man (?!?!?!!). So I don't even know how he would take it if he didn't get an invite.

No STDs have gone out or anything....I just don't know what to do about him. I don't want FI dealing with him being all ticked off when they are trapped in the same building with only each other for company 20 hours a week. But our wedding is small and I really have a hard time justifying inviting him to the exclusion of other, closer friends just to avoid him getting offended.

What would you do?

sister2groom · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_long-invite-fiances-well-meaning-but-completely-inappropriate-coworkerfriend-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:9c33ab53-4246-4fca-b9f3-b02d41f0f4d5Post:9b2896b9-86de-41f6-8061-434b36463df7">LONG: Invite fiance's well-meaning, but completely inappropriate, coworker/"friend" (LONG).</a>:
[QUOTE] The waiter in question: A former gay prostitute/low budget film star (I swear to God I am not making this up) who moved here and started working at the restaurant after getting run over by a car, defaulting on his medical bills, and getting denied a visa to move to England because he (quote) had "no skills."
Posted by NOLAbridealmost[/QUOTE]

Given the other part of your post, I wouldn't want to invite/spend tens of hours a week with him, but this part of your post is just so mean for so many reasons I don't even want to try to get into them. And they aren't really relevant because his behavior at Thanksgiving alone would turn me off.

In general I don't think you should be obligated to invite people you dislike, but in this case, I think your FI should make the call because he will have to deal with any fallout. And you can't really tell this waiter it's family only, he'll likely figure out through fb or something that two other employees are invited.

Think of this way, if you invite him with a date and seat him with people who are less likely to find him offensive (some laid-back friends) or the other employees, that would be an extra two plates. Have FI weight the cost of two plates (and the risk of the waiter being very offensive) with the uncomfortableness he'll feel every day at work. I can't answer these questions, because I don't know/spend time with him.

Oh, and far as you telling the waiter his behavior is offensive, by all means say something about his recent rudeness, but it's not fair to criticize someone's behavior from a long time ago that you never mentioned at the time, or to mention him being on good future behavior.

Good luck.

cupcakesfrosting · November 2010

If the STD's haven't gone out, then don't invite him at all.

opalsky007 · November 2010

Don't invite him. When he inevitably asks, just tell him that it's an extremely small, mostly family wedding. Don't show off pictures. Don't talk about the wedding in front of him.

I feel your pain. We have a friend who is extremely socially unaware as well, and we opted to not invite him. But regardless of how we feel about his behavior, it's not okay to tell him you disapprove of his behavior after the fact.

In the future, when he says something inappropriate, it's okay to explain why you're uncomfortable. Maybe he'll eventually work out his issues--we've taken this approach with our friend and it has helped him. But you don't need to point out everything horrible he's said or done in order to explain why he's not included in the wedding.

[Deleted User] · November 2010

i have to wonder - if he's so socially inappropriate, how is he still employed in a position where socializing is a major aspect of the job?

sister2groom · November 2010

Yeah, well if he talks about being a prostitue, I could see that being pretty akward. I just thought, if its' something in his past he's not proud of, I wouldn't bring it up, but if he brings it up, yeah that's uncomfortable.

Simply Fated · November 2010

I really don't understand why we need to know that he used to be, not only a prostitute and film star, but a gay one.
That's irrelevant to anything, unless he goes around trying to sell his dvd's at weddings.

If your husband only "barely tolerates him at work," then why is this employee still there?

I think there is something missing in this piece of the puzzle.

Simply Fated · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_long-invite-fiances-well-meaning-but-completely-inappropriate-coworkerfriend-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:9c33ab53-4246-4fca-b9f3-b02d41f0f4d5Post:9b2896b9-86de-41f6-8061-434b36463df7">LONG: Invite fiance's well-meaning, but completely inappropriate, coworker/"friend" (LONG).</a>:
[QUOTE]Hi Knotties. I need your help on this one, sorry that this is going to be really long, but I think that it is all necessary to make a well thought-out decision. The scenario: My fiance manages a very small restaurant. On weekdays, there are usually only two people working: a manager/cook, and a waiter. The potential guest in question is one of the waiters. On an average week, FI spends 20 hours alone in the restaurant with this guy. The other 20-30 hours a week, there are other employees; two of which are good friends of mine and FI. The two that are good friends are, of course, invited to the wedding. The waiter in question: A former gay prostitute/low budget film star (I swear to God I am not making this up) who moved here and started working at the restaurant after getting run over by a car, defaulting on his medical bills, and getting denied a visa to move to England because he (quote) had "no skills." He's generally a pretty nice person. He doesn't have a mean bone in his body. He really tries to be a good friend. I have every reason to believe that he means well, but he is so, so, SO inappropriate in social situations. The most recent incident that lead me to question whether to invite him to the wedding happened on Thanksgiving. My grandmother, parents and siblings were in town and because I know that he has no family in N.O., I invited him over to have Thanksgiving with us. He has a history of being really inappropriate in public, but I figured that around my grandmother and parents he'd know to behave himself. Heh. I was wrong. He accused FI of being an alcoholic (he's not), told my 17 year old brother to call him when he turns 18 because he is hot, and asked my grandmother "Are you the one who hates (FI)?" (she is). This is not the only time he's been completely out of control. I attended a wedding once where he was also a guest. Because he had no date, he spent the entire night following the bride and groom around and asking what was going on afterwards. It literally didn't occur to him that they might have other guests to attend to or that they might want to be ALONE after the reception. So at this point, I am sure many of you are just thinking, "don't invite him. He's crazy." But it's more complicated than that. He literally seems to have some sort of problem understanding social cues. FI barely tolerates him at work, yet somehow the guy thinks that FI is like his best friend. He was shocked when he learned that he wasn't going to be the best man (?!?!?!!). So I don't even know how he would take it if he didn't get an invite. No STDs have gone out or anything....I just don't know what to do about him. I don't want FI dealing with him being all ticked off when they are trapped in the same building with only each other for company 20 hours a week. But our wedding is small and I really have a hard time justifying inviting him to the exclusion of other, closer friends just to avoid him getting offended. What would you do?
Posted by NOLAbridealmost[/QUOTE]

WildRumpus · November 2010

My gut reaction would be to tell you not to invite him. However, is it going to make things really awkward/hard on your FI at work after the fact? Someone said not to invite him and not to talk about it around him, but if you're inviting the 2 other servers, who you're also friends with, isn't there a pretty good chance he'll find out? Would it be possible for your FI to have a heart-to-heart with him and let him know that his behavior at Thanksgiving made you both extremely uncomfortable and see where it goes from there?

garcias1 · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_long-invite-fiances-well-meaning-but-completely-inappropriate-coworkerfriend-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:9c33ab53-4246-4fca-b9f3-b02d41f0f4d5Post:ad72813f-4ab3-4745-9c53-bfa40825c124">Re: LONG: Invite fiance's well-meaning, but completely inappropriate, coworker/"friend" (LONG).</a>:
[QUOTE]i have to wonder - if he's so socially inappropriate, how is he still employed in a position where socializing is a major aspect of the job?
Posted by daffodil_jill[/QUOTE]

I had this EXACT same question. It seems weird that he could be a good waiter when he says such inappropriate things. He either has a problem where he says inappropriate things all the time and doesn't realize it, or he's saving his inappropriate behavior for you specifically, in which case you have to find out what his issue is with you. If he really does miss social cues, conversational cues, and doesn't interpret nonverbal communication, then keep in mind that he may really have a developmental disorder. This means that his behavior is not intentional, and he may not even realize there is a problem at all.

That said, if you don't want him there, don't invite him. But if you want to work on the relationship in the future, tell him when he does things that are bothering you (in a constructive way which is mindful of his feelings).

NOLAbridealmost · November 2010

Garcias (and the other PPs who were curious),

I left all this out of the original post because I didn't think it was relevant, but he is inappropriate on the job as well as in other social occasions, although to a lesser extent. He was fired from a long string of places before FI's predecessor-manager at the restaurant hired him. As for why he is still employed....it all circles back to the fact that my FI, the new manager, would have to be the one to fire him and he just can't do it without feeling terrible because of the guy's perception that they are best friends. And, as I said in the first post, he is well meaning. He doesn't say things to purposely upset people. I don't even think he realizes that he offends people most of the time. It's not the case of a rogue waiter running around trying to upset customers. He is just trying to be nice....but with way TMI.

I agree with Garcia that it might be an actual disorder that causes his behavior, but that still doesn't change the real issue in my original post which is: do I have to invite this guy to spare his feelings despite his: 1) Not being "best" friends with us, and 2) his high potential for embarrassing FI or me in front of our families with his inappropriate comments?

J&K10910 · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_long-invite-fiances-well-meaning-but-completely-inappropriate-coworkerfriend-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:9c33ab53-4246-4fca-b9f3-b02d41f0f4d5Post:b7712b46-3172-4aec-a630-0fbc34d31f74">Re: LONG: Invite fiance's well-meaning, but completely inappropriate, coworker/"friend" (LONG).</a>:
[QUOTE]Garcias (and the other PPs who were curious), I left all this out of the original post because I didn't think it was relevant, but he is inappropriate on the job as well as in other social occasions, although to a lesser extent. He was fired from a long string of places before FI's predecessor-manager at the restaurant hired him. As for why he is still employed....it all circles back to the fact that my FI, the new manager, would have to be the one to fire him and he just can't do it without feeling terrible because of the guy's perception that they are best friends. And, as I said in the first post, he is well meaning. He doesn't say things to purposely upset people. I don't even think he realizes that he offends people most of the time. It's not the case of a rogue waiter running around trying to upset customers. He is just trying to be nice....but with way TMI. I agree with Garcia that it might be an actual disorder that causes his behavior, but that still doesn't change the real issue in my original post which is: do I have to invite this guy to spare his feelings despite his: 1) Not being "best" friends with us, and 2) his high potential for embarrassing FI or me in front of our families with his inappropriate comments?
Posted by NOLAbridealmost[/QUOTE]

I don't understand why your FI can't sit down and say "Hey, this behavior is inappropriate as an employee of this company. If you don't stop, you won't have a job." He's the manager. That's his job.

WildRumpus · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_long-invite-fiances-well-meaning-but-completely-inappropriate-coworkerfriend-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:9c33ab53-4246-4fca-b9f3-b02d41f0f4d5Post:b7712b46-3172-4aec-a630-0fbc34d31f74">Re: LONG: Invite fiance's well-meaning, but completely inappropriate, coworker/"friend" (LONG).</a>:
[QUOTE]Garcias (and the other PPs who were curious), I left all this out of the original post because I didn't think it was relevant, but he is inappropriate on the job as well as in other social occasions, although to a lesser extent. He was fired from a long string of places before FI's predecessor-manager at the restaurant hired him. As for why he is still employed...<strong>.it all circles back to the fact that my FI, the new manager, would have to be the one to fire him and he just can't do it without feeling terrible because of the guy's perception that they are best friends</strong>. And, as I said in the first post, he is well meaning. He doesn't say things to purposely upset people. I don't even think he realizes that he offends people most of the time. It's not the case of a rogue waiter running around trying to upset customers. He is just trying to be nice....but with way TMI. I agree with Garcia that it might be an actual disorder that causes his behavior, <strong>but that still doesn't change the real issue in my original post which is: do I have to invite this guy to spare his feelings despite his: 1) Not being "best" friends with us, and 2) his high potential for embarrassing FI or me in front of our families with his inappropriate comments? </strong>
Posted by NOLAbridealmost[/QUOTE]

As for the first bolded part, then why is your FI a manager? Yes, firing people sucks, but that's part of the job sometimes.

As for the second bolded part-people have answered this-you don't HAVE to invite anyone that you don't want to invite. The question is really whether you're FI wants to deal with the potential fallout of not inviting him.

sister2groom · November 2010

In my pp, I didn't quite realize your FI was this guy's boss. It sounds like before you consider your personal relationship with this guy, your FI needs to do something drastic about his behavior in the workplace.

If the waiter is really as incompetent as you suggest it would be somewhat irresponsible of your FI to NOT fire him. Especially a good portion of the week the waiter is the only one customers will really see. Even if FI and this guy really were best friends your FI needs to AT LEAST give him a "change your behavior in the workplace or else" talk.

If I went to a small restaurant where the one waiter majorly creeped me out, I probably wouldn't come back no matter how everything else was.

ThePinkSuperhero · November 2010

Just don't invite him. We have a crazy person in our social circle, and I went back and forth on inviting her, but ultimately decided that to invite her was to inflict her on all my other guests (particularly the people she knows and would follow around bothering). It wasn't fair to any of them, not for some woman I'm not even friends with.

Oh, and I should say that she was shocked just SHOCKED that she wasn't invited, and went about bitching about it on Facebook the same way she does when anybody disappoints her. I imagine your guy is the same- you probably can't make him fully understand the situation, all you can do is make the decision that's best for you and go from there.

NOLAbridealmost · November 2010

It's not my place or my intention to tell FI who he should or should not fire. It's not my place or any of my business. I am sure all of you would agree that your fiance asking you to fire someone would be out of line.

All I want to know from the knotties is whether you'd invite this person or not. That's it. Thank you for everyone's opinion regarding what is relevant: whether to invite him or not.

ivyrose13 · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_long-invite-fiances-well-meaning-but-completely-inappropriate-coworkerfriend-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:9c33ab53-4246-4fca-b9f3-b02d41f0f4d5Post:ad72813f-4ab3-4745-9c53-bfa40825c124">Re: LONG: Invite fiance's well-meaning, but completely inappropriate, coworker/"friend" (LONG).</a>:
[QUOTE]i have to wonder - if he's so socially inappropriate, how is he still employed in a position where socializing is a major aspect of the job?
Posted by daffodil_jill[/QUOTE]

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jdean693 · November 2010

Are you having the ceremony and reception at different locations? Maybe you can invite him just to the ceremony. Then ask the other co-workers not to mention the reception to him since they are your good friends and are aware of this man's disability and the situations it may cause.

I believe that is why some invites have the separate reception to follow cards, just for cases like this.

This way he may think that everyone was invited to just the ceremony, and as for the reception it can be explain that budget was very limited and only family was there.

At least this is how we are handling our problem guest.

J&K10910 · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_long-invite-fiances-well-meaning-but-completely-inappropriate-coworkerfriend-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:9c33ab53-4246-4fca-b9f3-b02d41f0f4d5Post:e9fa3210-00e4-409e-92f8-1d7552f73614">Re: LONG: Invite fiance's well-meaning, but completely inappropriate, coworker/"friend" (LONG).</a>:
[QUOTE]Are you having the ceremony and reception at different locations? Maybe you can invite him just to the ceremony. Then ask the other co-workers not to mention the reception to him since they are your good friends and are aware of this man's disability and the situations it may cause. I believe that is why some invites have the separate reception to follow cards, just for cases like this. This way he may think that everyone was invited to just the ceremony, and as for the reception it can be explain that budget was very limited and only family was there. At least this is how we are handling our problem guest.
Posted by jdean693[/QUOTE]

Yeah...uh...not ok. Don't do this.

mica178 · November 2010

From a professional standpoint, I think it's totally fine for the manager not to invite his subordinates. I'd advise your FI to tell the waiter that it's going to be a small wedding.

Please do not do a tiered wedding. You don't need to add to the social inappropriateness by inviting the waiter guy to the ceremony only.

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