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June 2012 Weddings

NWR: Need help finding legal documentation.

Remember when someone stole one of our new plasma tvs from the hotel? (From the back room and it was an employee.) Well, there has been money missing from the til every once and a while. So my boss decided that we had to count the til in front of the next person to cover our butt, and any money missing will come out of our paychecks.

Fast forward to today. Sunday there was money missing, $30. I didn't count the til because I only had to get change for a $100 and knew it was fine because he counted it twice and I counted it once. I come in today and my boss said that sicne no one counted the til, she was spltting the $30 between everyone that worked sunday and she was taking $10 out of my paycheck. I told her that she wasn't taking anything out of my paycheck and that she obviously needed to put cameras up to solve this little issue she is having. She kept going on about how she said it was going to happen in the meeting, and that I was being insubordinate and that she was going to write me up. I told her that was fine, but she will not take money out of my paycheck. She was pissed and didn't expect me to tell her no.

Anyway. I need help finding a document saying it is illegal to take money out of paychecks without a court order. I live in Missoula, MT. Any help would be appreciated!!

PS~ The same lady worked after me Sunday night is the one I am pretty sure stole the tv also.

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Re: NWR: Need help finding legal documentation.

  • Is there free legal help in your county you could ask?
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-club-boards_june-2012-weddings_nwr-need-finding-legal-documentation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding Club BoardsForum:3ae4d68d-f10a-4dec-8810-da13c14a7b86Discussion:8060f34c-c970-4139-b4ee-50fc4b89be2bPost:bd72d426-1d04-4179-9c12-f6a1e49eee1e">Re: NWR: Need help finding legal documentation.</a>:
    [QUOTE]Is there free legal help in your county you could ask?
    Posted by Zimsgirl26[/QUOTE]

    Maybe. I could probably call the courthouse tomorrow. I am trying to google it, but I am not finding much.
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  • Did some general googling:

    Bunch of facts there didn't read through them all but hope you can find an answer. I'd recommend speaking to a lawyer though 

  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-club-boards_june-2012-weddings_nwr-need-finding-legal-documentation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding Club BoardsForum:3ae4d68d-f10a-4dec-8810-da13c14a7b86Discussion:8060f34c-c970-4139-b4ee-50fc4b89be2bPost:b939f523-a390-4272-9343-bd6c7fdff00e">Re: NWR: Need help finding legal documentation.</a>:
    [QUOTE]Did some general googling: <a href="http://www.las-elc.org/factsheets/deductions.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.las-elc.org/factsheets/deductions.html</a> Bunch of facts there didn't read through them all but hope you can find an answer. I'd recommend speaking to a lawyer though 
    Posted by Zimsgirl26[/QUOTE]

    Thanks so much, I will check it out!
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  • Yep! You should google legal aid in your county if you wanna take it that far. There's some where I live right now for the county and some for students. Definitely worth checking out if you wanna take it that far
  • So, if the website says:

    If your employer can prove that you lost the employer’s money or broke the employer’s property through an act of “gross negligence” or an act that was “dishonest” or “willful,” the deduction is probably legal. Your employer will normally need to have some proof or witnesses to show that you were dishonest or grossly negligent; a simple accusation does not give your employer the right to make these deductions.

    Can she take money from our paycheck for theft that she can't prove? (She can prove it is missing, but can't prove who did it.)

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  • I have no clue. I don't feel like you're gonna get many answers here esp from people that are in the legal field. I'd either drop it or find a lawyer. You can find anything to go in your favor on the internet KWIM?
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-club-boards_june-2012-weddings_nwr-need-finding-legal-documentation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding Club BoardsForum:3ae4d68d-f10a-4dec-8810-da13c14a7b86Discussion:8060f34c-c970-4139-b4ee-50fc4b89be2bPost:ccf4b091-d7db-4c03-8c25-2cb692966f56">Re: NWR: Need help finding legal documentation.</a>:
    [QUOTE]I have no clue. I don't feel like you're gonna get many answers here esp from people that are in the legal field. I'd either drop it or find a lawyer. <strong>You can find anything to go in your favor on the internet KWIM</strong>?
    Posted by Zimsgirl26[/QUOTE]

    That is very true! I will look into it tomorrow if I can't find anything online tonight.
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  • I would think that your boss should report this to the police and let them handle the issue.  Maybe you should suggest that she involve the police since there is illegal activity going on?  This seems like something she can't do on her own, but I don't have a legal background and I am just guessing.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-club-boards_june-2012-weddings_nwr-need-finding-legal-documentation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding Club BoardsForum:3ae4d68d-f10a-4dec-8810-da13c14a7b86Discussion:8060f34c-c970-4139-b4ee-50fc4b89be2bPost:881dd9eb-9d5f-4625-b4cf-fce1a9050b0b">Re: NWR: Need help finding legal documentation.</a>:
    [QUOTE]I would think that your boss should report this to the police and let them handle the issue.  Maybe you should suggest that she involve the police since there is illegal activity going on?  This seems like something she can't do on her own, but I don't have a legal background and I am just guessing.
    Posted by laurabub[/QUOTE]

    She won't do that. She doesn't even want our owners to find out! It is getting rediculous. The one that is doing it is her friend. Shocker!!
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  • She can't prove gross negligence in this case. She doesn't know when during the day the money wentnmissing and this definitely isn't a situation where the entire group can suffer forbthe actions of an individual. I agree that they either need to go to the police or install cameras. Sorry you're having to deal with this!
  • Many companies have policies that dock workers pay if a register does not balance at the end of a shift. However these policies have to be in writing and the employees usually sign some sort of acknowledgment that they are aware of the policy. 

    I don't know the laws in MT, but I would think that the employer would need to create a paper trail a) stating this policy and b) informing any employees of any shortages and when the appropriate action will be taken. If none of this is documented, I don't think she would be able to dock your pay without going through the legal system.

    Also, I would try contacting the state labor dept and asking them what the laws are, they can usually tell you.
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  • Do you have a way to notify the owners yourself?
  • I don't have any advice, but I hate to be the bearer of bad news.  Since you didn't count it, you are breaking procedure and therefore you are responsible just as every other person that didn't count.  This happens at our bar once in a while.  Our drawer is off frequently, especially on busy nights because we end up making change with the tip jar when we are in a rush.  Since we have 2-3 people handling the same money if the deposit comes up short, we all split the difference since we don't know who is at fault.

    I was in a situation like this when I was 20.  I was an assistant manager and I was the only one working on a Sunday.  At night when I counted the money I had a new girl double count the money.  She didn't know how all of the paperwork worked so I didn't even try to explain it to her and have her double check that.  I wrote the correct amount on our paperwork, but somehow wrote the wrong number on the bank deposit slip (it was a long, busy day).  Well, the bank said that I shorted the deposit $1500.  When my managers asked to see the videos from the bank of someone counting our deposit they refused to release those videos because it had to have been someone on their end.  I was questioned constantly and they even brought in investigators.  My managers believed that I didn't do it and had no proof of it but instead of getting a first and final warning I got terminated.  My store manager tried to fight for my job back because she was on vacation and had no idea the DM's let me go but I told her I didn't want to work for people who were going to watch me like a hawk. I have too much going for me that I definitely wouldn't steal any money!

    Good luck with your search!
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-club-boards_june-2012-weddings_nwr-need-finding-legal-documentation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20Club%20BoardsForum:3ae4d68d-f10a-4dec-8810-da13c14a7b86Discussion:8060f34c-c970-4139-b4ee-50fc4b89be2bPost:0a3543d2-7d3a-43bf-9862-b74e7e320fed">Re: NWR: Need help finding legal documentation.</a>:
    [QUOTE]Do you have a way to notify the owners yourself?
    Posted by Melissa603[/QUOTE]

    This.  If your boss is not the owner, and is HIDING this from the owners, personally I feel THAT is gross negligence.  They deserve to know what is going on within their business (and if you work in a chain hotel, she must have a boss who deserves to know).  She's trying to dock your pay to cover up a problem she's refusing to acknowledge, so that she doesn't have to admit that there is a problem to her boss.  That's despicable.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-club-boards_june-2012-weddings_nwr-need-finding-legal-documentation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20Club%20BoardsForum:3ae4d68d-f10a-4dec-8810-da13c14a7b86Discussion:8060f34c-c970-4139-b4ee-50fc4b89be2bPost:cca19300-92b0-473d-bee4-09efa6044574">Re: NWR: Need help finding legal documentation.</a>:
    [QUOTE]I don't have any advice, but I hate to be the bearer of bad news.  Since you didn't count it, you are breaking procedure and therefore you are responsible just as every other person that didn't count.  This happens at our bar once in a while.  Our drawer is off frequently, especially on busy nights because we end up making change with the tip jar when we are in a rush.  Since we have 2-3 people handling the same money if the deposit comes up short, we all split the difference since we don't know who is at fault.
    Posted by Carebear62584[/QUOTE]

    I don't entirely disagree with you, clearly Fawn should have counted the money.  However, unless this is part of her contract or she has signed a statement after the fact acknowledging that she could be penalized for this, I don't believe that her boss has any legal ground to stand on.  Particularly as her boss seems to be hiding the employee problems from the owners, it seems to me she's trying to cover her own butt without admitting there's a real problem, or dealing with it in a proper manner.
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  • So, I text my manager saying that it is illegal to deduct money from someones pay unless they stole it, but you have to have proof and witnesses and obviously she can't prove who did it, so it is illegal.

    She called me and said that she wasn't really going to deduct anyones pay, she was just saying that she was going to because she wanted to follow through on her threat. I explained to her that it wasn't even the $10 she was going to take out, it was the principle and that this crap is getting old. She also informed me that the lady I think stole the tv and the money put in her two weeks notice. (Yay!) We also talked about getting cameras put in just for safety reasons, and she is going to talk to our owners about it. (I work at the front desk of a hotel and at night we are alone. We have a remodel happening next year and it would be easy to put them in at that time.)

    About her hiding stuff from our owners, I am kind of glad she is. They are a huge pain in the ass and I don't really want them around more than they need to be. haha
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  • For future matters I'd talk to her at work not text.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-club-boards_june-2012-weddings_nwr-need-finding-legal-documentation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding Club BoardsForum:3ae4d68d-f10a-4dec-8810-da13c14a7b86Discussion:8060f34c-c970-4139-b4ee-50fc4b89be2bPost:e0b5de34-784d-4823-be53-1c922b18a3cc">Re: NWR: Need help finding legal documentation.</a>:
    [QUOTE]For future matters I'd talk to her at work not text.
    Posted by Zimsgirl26[/QUOTE]

    I did talk to her at work, but she has gone home now. It really isn't that professional of a work place. Don't worry! :)
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  • I work in a hotel & the night auditor as well, we have a camera on the cash, both shifts have to sign the cash sheet, whomever comes next on shift has to count it before the other one can leave & verify the amount with their initials
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-club-boards_june-2012-weddings_nwr-need-finding-legal-documentation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding Club BoardsForum:3ae4d68d-f10a-4dec-8810-da13c14a7b86Discussion:8060f34c-c970-4139-b4ee-50fc4b89be2bPost:97b6d2aa-efb5-485f-8951-7226c36fe447">Re: NWR: Need help finding legal documentation.</a>:
    [QUOTE]I work in a hotel & the night auditor as well, we have a camera on the cash, both shifts have to sign the cash sheet, whomever comes next on shift has to count it before the other one can leave & verify the amount with their initials
    Posted by sweetcanadian1979[/QUOTE]

    This is common with a lot of places I've worked at/know of that deal with cash.

    Cameras (even fake ones) definitely need to be installed so people think about what they are doing more (even for a short period of time). 
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