Parent problems- long

a2joy · July 2010

My fiance was raised Catholic, I was raised as a non-denominational christian. We're currently having problems with my fiance's father because FI no longer considers himself Catholic (or christian for that matter). This past weekend we went "site shopping" for a place to hold both the wedding & reception, and when FI told his dad about it, he flipped out about us not having a Catholic wedding or getting married in a church. He has started threatening that if we don't do it in a Catholic church, he will not come to the wedding.

I'm willing to take classes or do whatever it takes to marry him, but FI doesn't want to do the whole Catholic wedding thing when he doesn't really believe in it anymore... he feels that it would have to be a big lie, and it would. He is really upset that his father is being so judgemental & not understanding, and his father is very upset because he says that they raised him to be Catholic & he just doesn't see how their son could possibly not be.

I haven't had that much experience with Catholics, but in contacting a couple of places to find out what would be required to make this happen for his dad, it seems like there is no way to a happy-medium. Either we really upset his dad, so much so that he doesn't come to the wedding & may not talk to us anymore, or we go through almost a year of jumping through hoops to make him happy (which really isn't an option since FI is basically agnostic now). FI's father lives halfway across the country from us, his mother passed away about 2.5 years ago, and he's an only child, so this is really kind of heart breaking for FI & for me too.... I guess I'm not really looking for advice, as it seems like there is none that can be given, I just need to vent about how much the situation stinks

Riss91 · July 2010

That really does stink. I think your FI has to make a decision on whether he wants to leave the Church or not and he needs to speak to his father, calmly about his decision. It seems like your FI does not want to be Catholic, but he should make sure he has no desire to raise your children Catholic as well. It will be difficult (though not impossible) to have your children baptized in the Church if you were not married in the Church.

If he really wants to leave the church, have him sit down with his father and explain that this is his decision and ask that his father respect it. I am sure his father is upset because he feels that leaving the Church is a mistake. And that is fine for him to feel that way, but he needs to respect your FI's decisions. It would be worse for you and your FI to get married in the Church when you do not believe in the Church's teachings. And his father should not support you getting married in the Church under false pretenses (i.e. just to appease FI's father). Hopefully, his father will come around and will not miss your wedding ceremony.

I wish you all the best, and keep us posted on how things pan out!

Calypso1977 · July 2010

i am in full agreemetn that if your FI no longer associates with the Catholic faith, then you shoudl not be married in teh Catholic church.

i can understand where his dad is coming from. to have a child fall away from teh faith can be very sad and upsetting. he is probably blaming himself in some part for it happening. i have seen many a parent of a catholic child react this way, and 9 times out of 10, the parent was not teaching/leading by example. how can you expect your kids to remain catholic and follow the faith if you yourself have not done so? no clue if this is the case with the father, but i've seen it before.

that siad, the reason he's upset is as a Catholic, his son's marriage will not be valid in the eyes of teh catholic church. this would be a big deal if your FI plans to live a catholic life, but clearly he has made a choice not to, and therefore he is doing the right thing by not marrying in the church just to please someone.

you must respect the father's beliefs as far as not coming to the wedding. i know it will be hard for you to not have him there. i'm hoping in the end, he will come and just play a very low key role. it is very doubtful he will actively participate in any way since that would go against his beliefs. but if he opts not to, its because he cannot based on his beliefs.

if your FI does decide to marry out of the church, he can no longer receive communion in the Catholic church. since he doesnt believe it anyway, as you indicate, then this should not be an issue. while some may disagree with me here, in my opinion, a catholic marrying out of the faith pretty much cuts their ties with the church, if they want them cut.

mica178 · July 2010

A similar thing happened with my FI's father when he married my FMIL. FMIL is not Catholic, and the wedding took place in a Protestant church, so many of FFIL's family did not attend the wedding, because they did not consider it valid and would not support it through their presence.

Since the wedding, FFIL does not consider himself Catholic, and he attends a Presbyterian church. He is still on good terms with his entire family, and they love and embrace my FMIL and the children.

Talk with your FI. Make sure he's comfortable with the decisions you both are making, because of their implications from the church's standpoint and possible from his relationship with his father. I hope that your FFIL learns to separate his disappointment over your FI marrying outside of the church from his love for your FI.

tldh · July 2010

Calypso - I've been wondering for a while if you were raised Catholic or if you are a convert? Your views are stronger than even the most conservative Catholics I know. They don't bother me, I'm just curious.

A2Joy - I wouldn't keep saying that you'll do whatever it takes to marry in the church if FI doesn't want to do so. If FFIL finds out about that, it's going to make it harder and more frustrating for your FI to stick by his decision. Some of us still consider ourselves Catholic but non-practicing. I was raised in a Catholic home and went through 12 years of Catholic school. Never the less, I have a lot of problems with the Vatican - not the faith - the Vatican. I won't go into all of my reasons but I will say that if the church canonizes Queen Isabella, I will stop calling myself a Catholic and not look back.

I have family members who won't acknowledge marriages outside the church so I have an idea of what your FI is going through. Frankly, it's none of their business. A person's faith is the most personal thing about them. At it's core, it involves you and God. No one else. To associate your faith with an organized religion is just as personal.

Parents can raise a kid in the church but the fact of the matter is that we all have free will to make our own choices. To blindly follow a religion isn't faith at all. The pastor at the jesuit church I attended growing up always told us to question absolutely everything, especially if it is part of the church. He did not want a parish filled with lemmings. He let us know that if we ever left, we would always be able to come home again.

Personally, I see God in almost every aspect of life, from watching storm systems to looking through a microscope. Seeing how everything relates to eachother and supports eachother is amazing. Being a good person and loving everyone God would love (ie. everyone) is the important thing, not whether you are following the rules of the Catholic Church. I really can't see St. Peter letting in the meanest man who ever lived because he followed Vatican rules but turning away a man who dedicated his life to helping others who wasn't Catholic.

I know this kind of went off on a tangent, but know that your FI isn't the only one in this boat. His reasons are his reasons and I'd bet dollars to donuts that his dad already knows the reasons.

bel138 · July 2010

You two need to decide what is best for the two of you. You are the only two people in this union, and the only ones who get a say in your ceremony. If your FI does not plan on practicing Catholicism after the wedding, I would agree that it is best not to get married in the church. While it is upsetting that FFIL says he would not attend, that is the consequence of being an adult and making adult decisions. Also, many parents say things like that to guilt their children. Once he realizes FI is not going to compromise his beliefs, FFIL may come around. He may not.

I really don't see how any of Calypso's statements here are uber conservative. If you don't believe in Catholic teachings, don't get married in a Catholic church. If you don't get married in a Catholic church, don't continue to take the Eucharist. If a Catholic gets married outside the church, it's very much your perogative not to attend, as that person would be committing a sin, which it may be perceived that your support by attending. I'm not saying that everyone feels that way, but it is a common thing.

Calypso1977 · July 2010

tldh, i am a life long catholic, born to 2 catholic parents. dad's parents were both catholic, mom was from a mixed marriage.

i was raised, as were my parents, very conservative. while tough at times, i'm glad i had a very strict upbringing as far as my faith goes, and if i have a child i hope to instill the same beliefs in them.

bellashauntee · July 2010

I agree with Calypso. I do not think she is super conservative, she is just stating the Roman Catholic laws.
Unfortunately, a2joy, you are in a hard spot. We had a similar situation when my brother was going to marry an atheist. It almost killed my parents. They would never not attend their son's wedding, but they were devastated that he would go against his religion.
I do however, have a hard time believing that a man that lived his life according the Vatican law and the teaching of the church would be a mean man. But that is a theology debate that is better suited for a different time.
Whatever you two do is your decision, but there are consequences to both sides. Either you lose the wedding you want or the parents do not come to the wedding. Pray on it and the answer will come to you.

MobKaz · July 2010

Emotions of the day can and will change, more often than not.

My mom was (she has long passed away) a devout Catholic. Her oldest son, for too many reasons to list, married in his bride's non- Catholic church. We all went; we all supported; we kept our personal feelings to ourselves. IF my mom felt it was not valid in the eyes of the church, or whether the children were recognized in the eyes of God....she kept it to herself and, I'm sure, in her prayers.

I was raised Catholic to the core; private schools through college. Although I did not send my own kids to Catholic schools (with some guilt) they did attend religious ed through Confirmation....which in our area...is not until sophomore year in HS. My daughter will marry in our Catholic church next June. Her older brother, if and when he marries....I will almost guarantee will not be in a Catholic church; I daresay it won't be in any church at all.

I will attend both weddings with the same joy and full heart. I raised my kids to be loving, kind, caring, and prayerful. How they choose to celebrate that as adults is their choice. Whatever personal, long standing tenets I hold, will be kept to myself, and in my prayers.

Most churches, regardless of denomination, always have some sort of "welcome home". or "returning home" program....for those who choose to return to the church at some stage of their life.

If a church/religion, and parents, do not demonstrate forgiveness, understanding, acceptance, and open doors, neither is deserving.

Theresa626 · July 2010

Call his father's bluff. Not only is it upsetting to you, but is disrespectful to the church when people have marriages in the church that don't want to be Catholic and have no desire to come back to church. Honestly, I think the church would probably encourage you not to have a Catholic wedding if you have no desire to be Catholic. It just doesn't make much sense. I really doubt that your fiance's father will miss the wedding because of this. I think your fiance needs to sit down with his dad and have a long talk with him. Tell him why your fiance doesn't consider himself catholic anymore and how he feels about the church. Tell him how he feels it would be disrespectful to the church to say vows that he doesn't believe in and he would be lying if he told a priest he would raise his children Catholic. They will ask you to raise your kids catholic and if you can't say yes to that, the church may have a problem with marrying you. You can tell his father this. I doubt anything your fiance will say will make his father feel better but it is good to have open communication. HOpefully, his father will come around. But, you really need to do what is best for you right now. You're starting your new life together and it really needs to be what YOU TWO have planned and not what your parents want.

tldh · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_parent-problems-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:ce8d72d5-1194-401a-8952-84d9d79c108ePost:0038a35b-61ef-4c5d-b7f7-3220de8826f2">Re: Parent problems- long</a>:
[QUOTE]tldh, i am a life long catholic, born to 2 catholic parents. dad's parents were both catholic, mom was from a mixed marriage. i was raised, as were my parents, very conservative. while tough at times, i'm glad i had a very strict upbringing as far as my faith goes, and if i have a child i hope to instill the same beliefs in them.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

Thanks. I was honestly curious. You have such a firm handle on church law but don't come across as judgmental which is something I find to be a rare thing.

Calypso1977 · July 2010

i do try not to be judgemental, althoguh i'm sure at times some have felt that i am. i genuinely want to help on this board. i feel many catholics out there are misguided and are genuinely looking for the truth about their faith and some guidance. they want to do the right thing. but its hard at times when some just want to hear what they want to hear, and want justification for whatever situation they have. if nothing else, i hope i get some of those folks to think twice, step back and reevaluate. if they stil make the same choices, at least tehy made them knowing all of the info.

we all sin, we all make mistakes, adn we all question our faith at times. its what you do from there that counts.

ootmother2 · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_parent-problems-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:ce8d72d5-1194-401a-8952-84d9d79c108ePost:40c847e0-d228-4c4e-9497-b5bf254b4da5">Re: Parent problems- long</a>:
[QUOTE]Emotions of the day can and will change, more often than not. My mom was (she has long passed away) a devout Catholic. Her oldest son, for too many reasons to list, married in his bride's non- Catholic church. We all went; we all supported; we kept our personal feelings to ourselves. IF my mom felt it was not valid in the eyes of the church, or whether the children were recognized in the eyes of God....she kept it to herself and, I'm sure, in her prayers. I was raised Catholic to the core; private schools through college. Although I did not send my own kids to Catholic schools (with some guilt) they did attend religious ed through Confirmation....which in our area...is not until sophomore year in HS. My daughter will marry in our Catholic church next June. Her older brother, if and when he marries....I will almost guarantee will not be in a Catholic church; I daresay it won't be in any church at all. I will attend both weddings with the same joy and full heart. I raised my kids to be loving, kind, caring, and prayerful. How they choose to celebrate that as adults is their choice. Whatever personal, long standing tenets I hold, will be kept to myself, and in my prayers. Most churches, regardless of denomination, always have some sort of "welcome home". or "returning home" program....for those who choose to return to the church at some stage of their life. If a church/religion, and parents, do not demonstrate forgiveness, understanding, acceptance, and open doors, neither is deserving.
Posted by mobkaz[/QUOTE]

Thank you for posting this. You sound like a great mother who knows parental love is unconditional, as is God's love.

a2joy · July 2010

Thank you all for your comments. FI is very set against the Catholic wedding at this time. He just told his father about this part of our plans on Saturday, then spoke with him again on Sunday, which is when his father threatened to not come. I'm hoping he just needs time, and expect also that he will not be involved in anything leading up to the wedding, but that he will most likely attend in the end. We discussed last night how if in 5 or 10 years or whatever, FI does decide to go back to his faith, we can go to the church & ask to be married in the church, it appears that this is something that is possible. But, FI does not want to have to lie through our wedding, thus, we'll need to be married outside of the Catholic church.

Calypso1977 · July 2010

a2, that is correct. if he decides to return to the faith, you could seek a convalidation. convalidations are meant for folks who have fallen away from the faith, married otu of the church, then later return (and they are also meant for a few other situations as well).

you never know what may happen in the future. often, when folks start having kids they find faith again - and it may not even be the catholic faith your FI finds, it could be another religion. you may find yourselves practicing whatever religion you grew up with. regardless, i think the two of you are doing the right thing at this point.

good luck!

fam6 · July 2010

Honestly, you wouldn't even have to take classes to marry in the Catholic church becasue only one of you needs to be Catholic. However, you will both have to pledge to live a Catholic life and raise your future children Catholic. It would not settle well with me to start out my marriage on a false pretense. So, I think you are right to not have the wedding in the Catholic church. It is your(you and FI) marriage, so it is your choice!

Parent problems- long

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