Tuesday!

professorscience · January 2012

How is everyone's day so far?

lalaith50 · January 2012

ugh. Not the best so far. I'm getting into a major FB debate about the HHS/contraception stuff. I don't know why I do this to myself...

(It's on my wall, so I'm not sure I really can't just "let it go," and having people saying incorrect things or whatever. sigh.)

how's your day?

professorscience · January 2012

Lala, me too. I just posted the link and made a comment about religious freedom, and my fb explooooded. I haven't really contributed much, but it is obvious that many people see the church's refusal to abide as an even bigger infringement on personal liberties. It has been interesting, to say the least.

I've been pretty lucky -- my friends are eloquent and (mostly) respectful. "I get why you feel this way, but here are x, y, and z standpoints." One girl called me "melodramatic," but that's about the extent of the childishness. I think I'm pretty much out of the debate, though. I'm mostly arguing with my Jewish friend, and at that point it's pretty impossible to make headway. We're both settled in our opinions and not going to change. All I can do is defend my beliefs and hope they'll be respected.

I was out yesterday, so I'm trying to catch up with my students. BUT I've been looking over the calendar and I think we can get way ahead of our schedule, so I'm pretty excited. I'm also always really happy to get a good report for my kids from subs.

afrenchprincess · January 2012

It's pretty good! Day off work sipping a latte, listening to music and reading my marriage prep book! Hope you're having a good day!

professorscience · January 2012

Ugh, I typed up a really long post, and TK ate it.

afrenchprincess · January 2012

Oh no! I hate it when I loose a post!

professorscience · January 2012

Okay, now I have a little bit of time.

Lala, I did the same thing, and my facebook blew up last night. I just posted an article with a comment about religious freedom and then went to dinner, so most of the conversation went on without me. It was pretty eye-opening, though. For good and bad reasons.

And I don't remember anything else. I think I talked about how my kids were mostly good for my sub and I always get excited to get good notes after an absence.

newlyseliski · January 2012

Tuesday is good and am enjoying my lunch break at work :)

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:32ac608a-80eb-416a-97ad-d3be54abcc97Post:ed7d5681-3b73-4078-9190-383f2708813c">Re: Tuesday!</a>:
[QUOTE]ugh. Not the best so far. I'm getting into a major FB debate about the HHS/contraception stuff. I don't know why I do this to myself... (It's on my wall, so I'm not sure I really can't just "let it go," and having people saying incorrect things or whatever. sigh.) how's your day?
Posted by lalaith50[/QUOTE]

I'm considering taking the same plunge... but I've gotten burned enough times with obnoxious commbox battles that I haven't done so in awhile. One of my facebook acquaintances works at NARAL and volunteers for PP... so she is always kind enough to contribute plenty of cliche pro-choice rhetoric anytime I dare to post anything that offends her militant feminist sensitivities. I oftentimes wonder if facebook discussions are worth bothering with since they seldom are anything but polarizing. My faith and convictions will never change and I doubt much of what I say will change her mind anytime in the near future, nor any of my other anti-religion or pro-abortion acquaintances that feel the need to clog up my posts with their comments.

In the past when things got out of hand on posts... I would leave one last comment for them to read before deleting the post or deleting obnoxious comments. I usually let them know that they were immature and clearly had no ability to engage in civil dialogue on any controversial subject... or something along those lines ;-). Heck... my fb wall is my territory and it is not a democracy... I'm free to censor it and block annoying people as I see fit. So there.

TeaForMe · January 2012

I just got into a debate on a friend's facebook page, too, after she posted about her opposition to the bill... I guess not all her friends are like-minded. At least it was all civil and polite. But the main disagreeing commenter essentially ended her debate with, "well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree". Hmm... actually we can'y disagree anymore... we're being forced to do something we disagree with.

And if we don't even put the moral consequences into it (which, of course, is a HUGE part of the problem itself), the fact contraception/sterilization is ELECTIVE and not medically necessary should mean you pay for it yourself. I mean, I wear contacts but would never expect them to be "free" for me. It's degrading to women to say "hey, we think it is medically necessary to keep your body from cycling properly. We'll fix you up for free!"

professorscience · January 2012

I wish you guys were fb friends with me. My husband (who is way more eloquent than I) just had a wonderful response to a friend who is very "Hospitals are BUSINESSES and should behave like BUSINESSES." Love it.

monkeysip · January 2012

I actually haven't had anyone respond to my posts about HHS... or my posts last week on abortion.

I think its because they've already learned that they can't convince me.

What I've been trying to get better at is letting them have the last word in these things.

I used to feel (and still kinda do) that I had to keep responding to everything they said (until they gave up) or else it would look to other people like I didn't have an intelligent response to their points.

A friend of mine told me that if your arguments are sound, anyone reading should be able to tell, and you shouldn't need to get the last word. That has helped me to try and just swallow my pride and shut up after I feel that I've made my case. If they keep going, that's their problem. It is hard though.

I'm considering posting about Susan G. Kommen's refusal to fund PP anymore. But I think that more than anything will solicit a fury of posts on my wall. AAAHHHH!

agapecarrie · January 2012

I'm really happy about Komen, but it says their only reason was because PP is getting investigated.

I hope its permanent, just wondering if they will support again if the PP investigation is resolved.

monkeysip · February 2012

I wonder that too, Agape. I'm not breaking out the champagne yet. I'm also hoping Komen doesn't cave to the pressure of pro-PP people because that group is FURIOUS and going NUTS. If you look at Komens' FB page, you'll see what I mean.

bibliophile2010 · February 2012

I keep the politics off my FB page in general. I try to stay out of it, too. I know I'm called to share the truth with the world, but I feel like my friends are totally polarized: either preaching to the choir or preaching to deaf ears. I don't have the emotional energy to get into it with people in a virtual world. I tend to stay out of the more obnoxious posts around here for the same reason.

Newly -- I agree. Your wall, your rules.

I have hope for Komen, probably mostly because I want to believe that an organization that I would otherwise support has severed their ties.

Prof. Sci -- good notes from subs are always good news!

lmeade62 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:32ac608a-80eb-416a-97ad-d3be54abcc97Post:7e0f4eb3-2403-4abf-8a1b-8fd46ba253cb">Re: Tuesday!</a>:
[QUOTE] Hmm... actually we can'y disagree anymore... we're being forced to do something we disagree with. And if we don't even put the moral consequences into it (which, of course, is a HUGE part of the problem itself), the fact contraception/sterilization is ELECTIVE and not medically necessary should mean you pay for it yourself. I mean, I wear contacts but would never expect them to be "free" for me. It's degrading to women to say "hey, we think it is medically necessary to keep your body from cycling properly. We'll fix you up for free!"
Posted by TeaForMe[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>THIS. This is exactly the way I feel. Sterilization and contraception, in most cases, are elective - now I've had friends who've had their tubes tied or ovaries removed for serious medical reasons, and one poor, dear friend who lost her babies due to an ovarian torsion or something and was judged horribly because of it.</div><div>
</div><div>I keep wanting to say, over and over again, "If you don't want to get pregnant or get an STD, DON'T HAVE SEX." That's the only way to guarantee it! But then I would get jumped all over, even by my close friends, who would holler that I'm forcing something on them, but not see that this is being forced on ME and my beliefs.</div><div>
</div><div>I think the Church should stand right up like they did before and say, "Not gonna do it." I know there's a lot of money involved, but I truly can't see them closing down entire hospitals because of this.</div><div>
</div><div>My week has been somewhat sucky so far...just over a year after having my direct boss and dear friend leave, our facility's COO and my dear friend had his last day today. I'm still in a state of denial, and fear about who will succeed him...we work with an extremely touchy population and we've worked very hard to get the program to a place where we've balanced compassion and accountability. The wrong person could destroy us.</div><div>
</div><div>And I had a dream that I cut my tongue out, just as calm as you please. What's up with that??</div><div>
</div><div>Hmph.</div><div>
</div><div>Linda

</div>

TeaForMe · February 2012

Biblio, I feel the same way about facebook - I keep my political views off my own wall, though I will comment on others' from time to time if I think I can say something intelligent. I think the most "political' I've gotten has been posting a comic about breastfeeding

Also, the whole "hospitals are businesses" thing - my post today was, "if you worked for or went to a Jewish-based institution/hospital, would you expect free bacon? No. But could you go elsewhere for bacon? Or buy your own? Sure." Apparently when my friend delivered her kids at a Jewish hospital, she really couldn't have bacon for breakfast. Where's the justice??!! It's a business and I deserve bacon after 14 hours of labor, people! Moral rights be damned!

agapecarrie · February 2012

Besides PP, I have 2 issues with Komen (and some other organizations have these problems too)

It's "awareness".

I don't need to put money towards an organization to tell me that cancer exists. I'm very aware, thank you. Awareness is such a hot word used all over that makes something sound good and its been used for so called charitable organizations that their sole purpose is to "raise awareness". I'm not saying komen is all bad, but that is part of their product. Pay attention to how much you hear it.

2nd...Komen is either sueing or trying to copyright the use of the phrase "for the cure". They are spending money on this particular issue. Because its becoming a product rather than true mission.

just thought of a third issue, this absolute monstrosity of effort to "curing" ailments rather than preventing them in the first place. This goes along with the NFP stuff. I know some research is done about what causes cancer, but the very fact that pp gives out the pill like candy, which causes cancer, and komen was giving money to pp just is so... ridiculous. It's no wonder fertility problems and reproductive/breast cancers are so rampant ...its because we hate our fertility. This is TOB manifested right before our eyes. Our souls cannot be one thing without our bodies. It's the physical manifestation of the inner being. (No I'm not saying that every person that gets breast cancer hates her fertility, its more of a societal whole).

bibliophile2010 · February 2012

Our bishop did say, in essence, "We're not going to do this." Only he said it way more eloquently than that. This was in Sunday's letter read in parishes. He's also not afraid to stand up for the Truth.

I'm pretty sure that bacon after labor isn't a right, but sausage might be.

Then again, I haven't actually gone through it yet, so I reserve the right to change my mind in a few months!

monkeysip · February 2012

I agree, Agape, I'm a little skeptical of large umbrella charities like SGK. I mean, I would love to support specific things like Breast Cancer research laboratories and clinics that perform mammograms and biopsies.

I don't know how much of SGK's money actually goes to these things though. I mean, awareness does seem to be their big selling point, but I'd like to see actual results.

It's one of those things that if you say, "Oh, I don't support Susan G. Komen," people respond, "WHAT? YOU DON'T SUPPORT PEOPLE WITH BREAST CANCER? YOU JUST WANT WOMEN WITH BREAST CANCER TO DIE?" Yes. That's what I said...

Sorry, I guess the SGK issue is a little bit of a threadjack, and my fault for bringing it up.

What I'd like to know is whether all of these catholic orgs, schools, and businesses can simply just stop providing insurance. I'm not saying that's preferable. I know Catholic employers want to provide insurance for their employees. But I'm just wondering if this is even possible for all of these places. Like, can a Catholc University refuse to provide any insurance policies for students? Are there any state laws that require Catholic schools to provide insurance for faculty? Just wondering.

agapecarrie · February 2012

ugh http://www.lifenews.com/2011/07/19/komen-sends-millions-to-embryonic-stem-cell-research-centers/

newlyseliski · February 2012

[QUOTE]I keep wanting to say, over and over again, "If you don't want to get pregnant or get an STD, DON'T HAVE SEX." That's the only way to guarantee it! Posted by lmeade62[/QUOTE]

You would think it's more complicated than that considering how worked up people get about abstinence... lol

[QUOTE]And I had a dream that I cut my tongue out, just as calm as you please. What's up with that?? Hmph. Linda
Posted by lmeade62[/QUOTE]

Woah... I'm pretty sure this would cause me to wake up screaming!

newlyseliski · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:32ac608a-80eb-416a-97ad-d3be54abcc97Post:96201988-c15c-40dc-ae1c-bea71f97f91c">Re: Tuesday!</a>:
[QUOTE]I wish you guys were fb friends with me. My husband (who is way more eloquent than I) just had a wonderful response to a friend who is very "Hospitals are BUSINESSES and should behave like BUSINESSES." Love it.
Posted by professorscience[/QUOTE]

Right back atcha (all)! Sometimes I'd just get annoyed during fb discussions and send out texts to my friends who were Catholic Studies or Theology majors to add some wisdom to the thread if they were available to... Now I just avoid posting things altogether because I end up diving down the rabbit hole of never ending debates and lose sight of what I actually set out to accomplish by posting it in the first place.

lmeade62 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:32ac608a-80eb-416a-97ad-d3be54abcc97Post:a1ad35e9-ba63-41e8-8af1-b7a9fafaa2bf">Re: Tuesday!</a>:
[QUOTE]You would think it's more complicated than that considering how worked up people get about abstinence... lol Woah... I'm pretty sure this would cause me to wake up screaming!
Posted by newlyseliski[/QUOTE]

<div>I know! I mean...I know that attitude about "Sex is a right and it's just normal to have it with anyone you want," because I used to have it, but I wouldn't go back there for all the tea in China. I wish, wish, wish I had had what I have now...the knowledge that I have not only as a Catholic, but as a psychologist and a nearly 50-year-old woman...heavens, I was DUMB. All the things I did to my body, and my psyche...I know personally and professionally how "sexual freedom" can mess people up.</div><div>
</div><div>And the dream...it was bizarre. I remember thinking as I was doing it, in the dream: "Hmmm. Maybe this wasn't such a good idea." My husband said: "Maybe you need to stop talking so much."</div><div>
</div><div>He's probably right. I am a talker.</div><div>
</div><div>Linda</div>

lmeade62 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:32ac608a-80eb-416a-97ad-d3be54abcc97Post:96201988-c15c-40dc-ae1c-bea71f97f91c">Re: Tuesday!</a>:
[QUOTE]I wish you guys were fb friends with me. My husband (who is way more eloquent than I) just had a wonderful response to a friend who is very "Hospitals are BUSINESSES and should behave like BUSINESSES." Love it.
Posted by professorscience[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Hmmm. I wonder if there's a way to do that...all of us be FB friends? I know there's a way to have a closed group that is by invitation only, or that you have to be accepted into. I really, really would yearn for a place where I can freely discuss my beliefs. It's hard because I used to think so differently, and my friends look at me oddly now sometimes.</div><div>
</div><div>What did your husband say to your friend?</div><div>
</div><div>Linda</div><div>
</div>

pretzelgrrl · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:32ac608a-80eb-416a-97ad-d3be54abcc97Post:510b857e-77d6-46c3-91db-5bfa99686a0d">Re: Tuesday!</a>:
[QUOTE]I agree, Agape, I'm a little skeptical of large umbrella charities like SGK. I mean, I would love to support specific things like Breast Cancer research laboratories and clinics that perform mammograms and biopsies. I don't know how much of SGK's money actually goes to these things though. I mean, awareness does seem to be their big selling point, but I'd like to see actual results. It's one of those things that if you say, "Oh, I don't support Susan G. Komen," people respond, "WHAT? YOU DON'T SUPPORT PEOPLE WITH BREAST CANCER? YOU JUST WANT WOMEN WITH BREAST CANCER TO DIE?"
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

You are not alone...SGK is is more of a business then a charity...they spend too much of their money on litigation (like Agape pointed out), they have been involved in 'pinkwashing"—the use of breast cancer and the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_ribbon" title="Pink ribbon" rel="nofollow">pink ribbon</a> by corporate marketers, especially to promote products that might be unhealthful—in return for a donation to the cause. Komen benefits greatly from these corporate partnerships, receiving over $55 million a year from them<sup class="reference">.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_G._Komen_for_the_Cure#cite_note-usatoday.com-47" rel="nofollow"></a></sup>. However, critics say many of these promotions are deceptive to consumers and benefit the companies more than the charity.
<sup class="reference"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_G._Komen_for_the_Cure#cite_note-Time-48" rel="nofollow"></a></sup>

professorscience · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:32ac608a-80eb-416a-97ad-d3be54abcc97Post:8ab2a42d-334d-45a2-9f42-f44e2fcd81a3">Re: Tuesday!</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tuesday! : Right back atcha (all)! Sometimes I'd just get annoyed during fb discussions and send out texts to my friends who were Catholic Studies or Theology majors to add some wisdom to the thread if they were available to... Now I just avoid posting things altogether because I end up diving down the rabbit hole of never ending debates and lose sight of what I actually set out to accomplish by posting it in the first place.
Posted by newlyseliski[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'm pretty much out of the discussion. A friend of mine from high school is still raging against a friend from college, though. I might just delete the whole thread if it keeps going. It's been fairly civil, though, which is nice.

Linda, here is my H's response (friend had just made several comments that because abortions/abc/etc are not illegal, they should be covered):

"<span class="commentBody">Just because abortions are legal doesn't make them mandatory. You say that this bill focuses on the business, not religion, but it seems to me that it only serves to strip businesses of their liberties, religious or otherwise. Abortion is indeed legal, and that's why places like Planned Parenthood are allowed to exist; I don't like that, but liberty means sometimes other people are going to do things you don't like. Similarly, other businesses do get to elect which services they will provide. Hamburgers are legal, but Panda Express isn't required to serve them.

There are Catholic OB-GYNs, Catholic investment groups, and many other religious institutions that practice their trade without violating their religious principles, and it's not a big stretch for people to take their money elsewhere if they want assistance in doing something that would violate those principles. A traveling vacuum cleaner salesman isn't going to go to an Amish settlement to peddle his wares.

Health Insurance companies should have every right to select what they do and don't cover, be it cancer treatment or contraception. If a woman wants to get the pill and would really like her insurance to cover it, let her avoid the insurers who won't (secular or religious) and pick one that does. Let the Catholic do the opposite. Freedom of choice for the business and for the consumer is upheld, nobody is forced to support or provide something they find morally reprehensible, and the government doesn't pick an unnecessary fight with churches. It's worked that way for many years; there's no need to force services to be universally available when procuring them has been remarkably easy, especially when the price is such an affront to religious institutions."</span>

newlyseliski · February 2012

Professorscience... pretty sure I'm going to copy and paste your husband's response onto my own wall. Against my better judgement, I went ahead and posted something anyways and received a rather irrelevant response. But for all of your entertainment, what I posted is certainly a very cheeky take on the HHS mandate if you'd like to read it :-)

"Bad Catholic" blog on HHS mandate

professorscience · February 2012

Great find, Newly. Thanks for sharing!

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