Modesty and Travel

jenn.daniel · March 2011

I think I'm reasonably modest. I don't cover myself up entirely, but I think I dress appropriately for location. In church and school I try to dress fairly conservatively, but if I'm at the beach I love wearing a two-piece. However, I think there are certain body parts that should be seen by NO ONE, except FH.

We had planned on flying to our honeymoon location, but I'm concerned about the new body scanners. From what I've seen on the news and researched myself, I think they are too revealing! I'm worried that I may be asked to go through one. The pat-down is not an option for me because I do NOT do well with people toughing me. I know if would be done by a woman, but, honestly, if my mother sits too close to me, I scoot over. There's no way I could handle some lady groping me.

We've decided to drive instead, so it isn't an issue anymore, but since we've been discussing modesty, I would like to know what you think of the new scanner and pat-down procedures. How do you deal? Do you avoid flying? Do you think they're ok?

MikeF&SarahC · March 2011

I live over-seas for work and fly several times a year. This January while returning to Italy I had my first ever body scan. I was quite anxious about it my FH went first and they let him see his. Then I went and they let me see mine and really wasn't a big deal. In fact there was businessman who opted out and they gave him an extremely through search. He was being a jerk in the line so he got what he deserved. Ultimately my biggest concern is the levels of radiation it exposes one to more than what is visible in the actual scan.

fpaemp2011 · March 2011

We flew out of Regan for FI's candidate weekend in Kansas, and ended up in the scanner before we realized we were in them. I know it's not the same everywhere, but the TSA guy said, "This way, ma'am," and being that it was my first time ever on an airplane...I went "that way," stepped in the scanner, was told to put my arms over my head, and then waited ~30 seconds for TSA guy to get an ok from the person sitting at the computer, which wasn't visible to anyone else. I never saw the scan of myself or FI, and I couldn't see the person sitting at the computer looking at the scans. I don't know if they could see us or not. When we flew out of Kansas City, we went through the metal detector, and saw the scanner to the side. We didn't see anyone go through it.

Personally, I'd rather have a faceless, x-rayish pic floating around than be touched by anyone like that. If I was pregnant, I might think about it, but they say the radiation is equal to 3 minutes of flying at full altitude, so I'd probably think twice about flying in the first place and talk to my doctor about it. I also had in my mind that if they said I "needed" a pat down for whatever reason, I would have them do it in full view of everyone, because if there's no reason for me to be uncomfortable with it, then they shouldn't have a problem with everyone watching. I might have been in a PMS-y snarky mood at the time...maybe...

On the flight back, I was wearing a zip-up hoodie with a t-shirt underneath, and was asked to take my hoodie off to go through the metal detector. TSA did ask if I had a shirt on underneath, but sometimes I wear a cami instead of a full tee and would not have been comfortable taking the hoodie off in public (much less in front of FI) with just a cami on. Just something to think about when dressing for the flight.

BrideToBeBecauseHeLovesMe · March 2011

Personally I find it a bit invasive. I could understand if it were a woman looking at the x-ray - then I wouldn't worry so hard. But a man? No thank you!! I wouldn't want to be patted down though either - and agree it would be in PUBLIC in front of everyone. I don't travel much, and don't mind the metal detectors. However I do find it sad that we even have to use these security methods in the world.

I did have to laugh at the e-mail my mom sent to me though. I posted the picture, with what it says below so you can read it:

It reads:
Perfect Airport Security Solution…Here’s the solution to all the controversy over full-body scanners at the airports:Have a booth that you can step into that will not x-ray you, but will detonate any explosive device you may have on your body. It would be a win-win for everyone, and there would be none of this crap about racial profiling and this method would eliminate a long and expensive trial. Justice would be quick and swift. This is so simple that it’s brilliant. I can see it now. You’re in the airport terminal and you hear a muffle explosion.Shortly thereafter an announcement comes over the PA system, “Attention standby passengers. We no have a seat available on flight number 4665…Paging maintenance. Shop Vac needed in booth number 4.”

Sure sounds like a win-win to me!!

AnnaW11 · March 2011

I haven't had to fly yet with the new regulations but...

My mom got a newsletter from one of her gardening magazines about these flowers that can sense TNT, they literally change color when exposed to 1/100 of the amount that bomb-sniffing dogs detect.

FI is doing a speech on it (he is a bio major and loves that kind of stuff) for a public speaking class. I thought it was interesting!

BrideToBeBecauseHeLovesMe · March 2011

Oh and as far as modest - I do enjoy two pieces as well, but make sure certain areas are covered.

SaraAndrew2010 · March 2011

I don't like the new body scanners because I do feel they are invasive and unneccessary. However, I don't have any more of a modesty concern with a trained TSA screener in another room seeing my body than I do with a doctor seeing my body.

jenn.daniel · March 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_modesty-travel?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:099b3d86-7eda-4a29-9167-f09a8f6c7c87Post:80149c56-d997-4028-8bef-9e8b0d97c1e2">Re: Modesty and Travel</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't like the new body scanners because I do feel they are invasive and unneccessary. However, I don't have any more of a modesty concern with a trained TSA screener in another room seeing my body than I do with a doctor seeing my body.
Posted by SaraAndrew2010[/QUOTE]

I don't let nurses/doctors see my body either. The dermatologist is allowed see what isn't covered by a bikini for a yearly skin check - that's it. Which reminds me it's been a year....

LuluP82 · March 2011

I don't find them to be that big of a deal. I have to fly all the time for work, and I've been through them a bunch. I've glanced at the scans-- it's not like a nude photograph or anything!

I've also had to have additional pat downs (my pockets were bunched up so they asked to pat me down in that area) and it was fine, too. It wasn't a big deal at all. They're just doing their jobs. I've been selected for additional screening multiple times (again, travel for work adn frequently have to purchase last minute tickets, including one-ways, which "flag" me as a potential threat) and, again...the pat down isn't a big issue. It's not nearly as invasive as a doctor's exam.

Honestly, I'd much rather be fully screened if I'm getting on a plane than not. When I get through with things I forget are in my bag (like extra liquids) it gets me more worried than not! If they'r enot screening me, than who else aren't they screening.

rachelea · March 2011

Honestly I could care less. I haven't gone through one but I'd so much rather do that than risk someone being a flight risk and getting through. These are trained professionals, they're doing it as a job, not as creeps or skieves. Can you imagine the background checks they have to go through working in an airport anyway? The safety of those flying is my number one priority. I actually HAVE gotten pat down at the airport because my hair always seems to set it off. When my hair was shorter I used clips to hold up lose pieces and they were so hard to get just right so I opted being pat down than rather take them out. Another time I was flying home from my cousin's wedding with my hair still done up from being her maid of honor...50+ bobby pins in there, no way it was coming down.

As far as modesty for swimsuits...I just bought a new bathing suit top. Its a bandeau two piece top. Living in Florida there is about 1% of people who wear a one piece. I used to always wear one because I was heavier, then ven when I lost weight I was self conscious and have just come to a realization that I look fine, FH loves me just the way I am and he thinks I'm beautiful in a frumpy sweatshirt or a bikini. And I'll be real...its about tanlines haha

AshNoel8 · March 2011

I forgot all about the new scanner things! I haven't gone through one yet, but we are flying to our honeymoon in Mexico in July. Hope it's not too weird.

loves2shop4shoes · March 2011

I've been through the scanners. I don't see the big deal. I mean, you let a doctor see you naked. Some people, by nature of their profession, need to see people naked to keep them safe. IMHO, doctors and airport security personnel are in this category.

kellya01 · March 2011

I don't plan to fly that much anyway, but when i do fly, I will probably just go through the scanner. Personally I have a HUGE issue with the new pat-down procedures. No one but my then-husband should be touching me there. And by "there" you know what I mean (lifting the breasts, touching the crotch area feeling for "stored" things). I'd rather have a bit more radiation in my life than to feel physically violated, you know what I mean? I don't mind the doctor, they go through medical school, and they don't molest you looking for things unless it is a medical necessity. The pat-down is not a medical necessity, and I won't have it. I'll have to not fly if it becomes required. That's a bit different than someone who goes through only a few hours of a seminar on pat-downs. I'm a bit conservative in this opinion, and I realize that... I'd rather take a train, if I can. Or drive, which is even better. I also don't like bumping up next to other people unless it's family, close friends, or FI.

iamjoesgurl · March 2011

I'm not a modest person. I mean, I would never pose for Playboy or anything, but I wouldn't really care if someone at TSA saw me nude if that was even what the scanners do. I mean, they see thousands of people go through each day. I would be willing to deal with the scanner or pat down. When I fly, I usually get in the line that doesn't have the scanner (which can be done at my airport). But I'd much rather feel safe so I can deal with the scanners.

jenn.daniel · March 2011

Rachel, I think it's hilarious that your hair sets the detector off. I find bobby pins in my hair for a few days if I have it pinned up for something special!

Funny story, my mom said that when she and my dad went on their honeymoon, everyone they met seemed to know it was their honeymoon, even though they didn't say so. Finally someone told her it was because my mom still had rice falling out of her hair!

katanne9 · March 2011

I travel for work quite a bit, and I've never had to go through either. Now very many airport have them, and even then, they usually only have a few and have many other regular lines.

I would, however, probably choose the xray machine over the pat down. It's really a generic body rendering and your face won't be included.

SaraAndrew2010 · March 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_modesty-travel?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:099b3d86-7eda-4a29-9167-f09a8f6c7c87Post:b6d2649e-4feb-4b82-9873-5f7d502cf970">Re: Modesty and Travel</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Modesty and Travel : I don't let nurses/doctors see my body either. The dermatologist is allowed see what isn't covered by a bikini for a yearly skin check - that's it. Which reminds me it's been a year....
Posted by jenn.daniel[/QUOTE]

Just curious, have you really never had a pelvic exam or a doctor check your breasts for lumps?

BrideToBeBecauseHeLovesMe · March 2011

[QUOTE]I haven't had to fly yet with the new regulations but... My mom got a newsletter from one of her gardening magazines about these <strong>flowers that can sense TNT, they literally change color when exposed to 1/100 of the amount that bomb-sniffing dogs detect</strong>. FI is doing a speech on it (he is a bio major and loves that kind of stuff) for a public speaking class. I thought it was interesting!
Posted by AnnaW11[/QUOTE]

That is so cool!!! What kind of flowers are they?

After reading everyone elses responses about this, I'm a lot more at ease. I've never been through the scanners but you all make good points:
- They're highly trained and checked out
- They see a million people a day
- They don't see your face
- It's a lot safer

I still don't like pat downs though, unless it's not extremely private - then I don't LIKE it but I can handle it.

kalizoomba · March 2011

my first (and so far only) flying trip was last July - RIGHT before they started making these mandatory. I will not fly again until they change the rules. I don't do well with people touching me either - even if it's FI - but I only allow him to hold my hand or rub my back. I couldn't imagine anyone - much less a strange touching me in such private places. (of course my entire body is pretty much "private") I don't like the scanners either.

uneek1323 · March 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_modesty-travel?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:099b3d86-7eda-4a29-9167-f09a8f6c7c87Post:57541a42-6f43-47da-9091-530b6b6f4d10">Re: Modesty and Travel</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Modesty and Travel : Just curious, have you really never had a pelvic exam or a doctor check your breasts for lumps?
Posted by SaraAndrew2010[/QUOTE]
I was going to ask the same thing.<div>
</div><div>
</div><div>I'm wear clothes that cover my body. I could really care less about the TSA thingys. I travel often and really don't care if they scan me and see me naked. Same for the doctor. </div><div>
</div><div>Good luck trying to be modest if you get pregnant. Sorry to tell ya, but the doctor is going to have exam you more than once.</div>

jenn.daniel · March 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_modesty-travel?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:099b3d86-7eda-4a29-9167-f09a8f6c7c87Post:ec21804c-d0b9-4a63-8329-90c9d8a7a570">Re: Modesty and Travel</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Modesty and Travel : I was going to ask the same thing. I'm wear clothes that cover my body. I could really care less about the TSA thingys. I travel often and really don't care if they scan me and see me naked. Same for the doctor. <strong>Good luck trying to be modest if you get pregnant. Sorry to tell ya, but the doctor is going to have exam you more than once.
</strong>Posted by uneek1323[/QUOTE]

We are not planning on having children. FH will have a vascetmony when he turns 30. Until then, it will be multiple methods of birth control to be extra careful.

I refuse to have a pelvic or breast exam from a doctor. I've read that most lumps are detected by women or their partner. I don't have any risk factors for cervial cancer, primarily, there is no way I have a herpes virus (b/c you have to contract it from someone), and research shows that it is the cause of 99%+ cases of cervical cancer. I know they also visually examine, but I don't have many other risk factors either (not overweight, don't smoke, no family history).

FI wasn't particularly pleased about my refusal until he learned what happens during those exams and witnessed my panic attacks. I would be ok with FI doing the exam, so we've discussed that. I guess I should mention he'll be graduating from med school in May, so he does technically know how to perform them, though that's not the field he's pursuing.

uneek1323 · March 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_modesty-travel?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:099b3d86-7eda-4a29-9167-f09a8f6c7c87Post:29aad4a7-7ec0-4f4a-b7bc-558a21bb9fea">Re: Modesty and Travel</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Modesty and Travel : We are not planning on having children. FH will have a vascetmony when he turns 30. Until then, it will be multiple methods of birth control to be extra careful. I refuse to have a pelvic or breast exam from a doctor. I've read that most lumps are detected by women or their partner. I don't have any risk factors for cervial cancer, primarily, there is no way I have a herpes virus (b/c you have to contract it from someone), and research shows that it is the cause of 99%+ cases of cervical cancer. I know they also visually examine, but I don't have many other risk factors either (not overweight, don't smoke, no family history). FI wasn't particularly pleased about my refusal until he learned what happens during those exams and witnessed my panic attacks. I would be ok with FI doing the exam, so we've discussed that. I guess I should mention he'll be graduating from med school in May, so he does technically know how to perform them, though that's not the field he's pursuing.
Posted by jenn.daniel[/QUOTE]<div>If you love your FI, and yourself, and anyone else that cares about you, you would put your health above your sense of modesty. Refusing to see a doctor is not a good thing. It's very dangerous. You seem to think you have all your bases covered and I wish you a lifetime of good health, but there can be other things that go wrong where you would need a pelvic exam that don't include cervical cancer and STD's (not save the dates). I have PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome). I don't drink, don't smoke, doesn't run in my family and have never had sex. They just appeared one day and cause excruciating pain. I can't even count how many internal ultra sounds I had to have. I pray you never have health issues, but chances are something is going to happen. Everyone goes through something. I would hate for you to be worse off because you refuse to tolerate a yearly exam.

</div>

Beazilla · March 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_modesty-travel?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:099b3d86-7eda-4a29-9167-f09a8f6c7c87Post:947d8902-6198-4898-8cdd-b86e13964892">Re: Modesty and Travel</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Modesty and Travel : If you love your FI, and yourself, and anyone else that cares about you, you would put your health above your sense of modesty. Refusing to see a doctor is not a good thing. It's very dangerous. You seem to think you have all your bases covered and I wish you a lifetime of good health, but there can be other things that go wrong where you would need a pelvic exam that don't include cervical cancer and STD's (not save the dates). I have PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome). I don't drink, don't smoke, doesn't run in my family and have never had sex. They just appeared one day and cause excruciating pain. I can't even count how many internal ultra sounds I had to have. I pray you never have health issues, but chances are something is going to happen. Everyone goes through something. I would hate for you to be worse off because you refuse to tolerate a yearly exam.
Posted by uneek1323[/QUOTE]
This and below.

You can still get cervical cancer and never been infected with HPV. You can also get ovarian, endometrial, uterine, and anal cancers which are screened for during your annual exam. Not having the major risk factors does not mean you aren't at risk. While you may do monthly breast exams, it's good to have a trained clinician exam your breasts as well. You need to see a doctor or nurse practitioner and get an annual exam; even nuns get annual exams. You'll also likely get checked for other health conditions such as thyroid disorders. If you're nervous about having people touch you and being examined, I highly recommend that you go to Planned Parenthood because they have a lot of experience examining women who have had traumatic experiences and may have psychological issues with the exam. Most Planned Parenthood clinics take private insurance and you'd also be supporting their efforts to provide free or sliding scale health services to low income women (and men).

When you go to the dermatologist, you should allow them to examine you all over, including the spots where you are covered unless you check those spots yourself and have no moles. I had to have a biopsy of a mole in an area that's never exposed to the sun and is normally covered by pubic hair; I was lucky and it was benign.

I'm against the full-body scan not for modesty issues, but privacy issues. Those images can be stored, as the US Marshals proved in a Florida courthouse with the machine they were in charge of. Also the manufacturers don't have good data on how much radiation the machines put out, the machines aren't regulated by the FDA, and they up your overall cancer risk. I'm against the pat-downs as well, but they're less invasive then the machines. Some airports still let you go through a metal detector and if an airport doesn't I always opt-out and get the pat down (female inspectors pat-down women, male inspectors pat-down men).

uneek1323 · March 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_modesty-travel?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:099b3d86-7eda-4a29-9167-f09a8f6c7c87Post:d4fca0b5-c93e-4f13-862f-98262ee75eb6">Re: Modesty and Travel</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Modesty and Travel : This and below. You can still get cervical cancer and never been infected with HPV. You can also get ovarian, endometrial, uterine, and anal cancers which are screened for during your annual exam. <strong>Not having the major risk factors does not mean you aren't at risk. </strong>While you may do monthly breast exams, it's good to have a trained clinician exam your breasts as well. You need to see a doctor or nurse practitioner and get an annual exam; even nuns get annual exams. You'll also likely get checked for other health conditions such as thyroid disorders. If you're nervous about having people touch you and being examined, I highly recommend that you go to Planned Parenthood because they have a lot of experience examining women who have had traumatic experiences and may have psychological issues with the exam. Most Planned Parenthood clinics take private insurance and you'd also be supporting their efforts to provide free or sliding scale health services to low income women (and men). When you go to the dermatologist, you should allow them to examine you all over, including the spots where you are covered unless you check those spots yourself and have no moles. I had to have a biopsy of a mole in an area that's never exposed to the sun and is normally covered by pubic hair; I was lucky and it was benign. I'm against the full-body scan not for modesty issues, but privacy issues. Those images can be stored, as the US Marshals proved in a Florida courthouse with the machine they were in charge of. Also the manufacturers don't have good data on how much radiation the machines put out, the machines aren't regulated by the FDA, and they up your overall cancer risk. I'm against the pat-downs as well, but they're less invasive then the machines. Some airports still let you go through a metal detector and if an airport doesn't I always opt-out and get the pat down (female inspectors pat-down women, male inspectors pat-down men).
Posted by Beazilla[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>@OP
re: the bolded part...<div>FI's father had NO family history of cancer. Not one person. He had prostate cancer. He's 100% cancer free now for a few years, praise God, but now FI gets checked regularly. A "history" of something has to start somewhere. Just because no one in your family doesn't have it, does not mean you won't ever get it.</div></div>

Bre2Be · March 2011

This thread has gotten way off topic...

but FWIW Jenn, Herpes =/= HPV. HPV is Human Papillomavirus, which certain strains CAN be known to cause cancer (among other things). Also, I'm pretty sure most contraception methods require a pelvic exam other than condoms.

I'm sorry to hear that you experience panic attacks during those kind of visits. Does it happen at the dermatologist too? Is it something you are praying about and seeking attention for? I only ask out of concern because it would be much harder to deal with if that happened with your husband down the road too.

mattycam · March 2011

I would rather go through a scanner than get pat down.

jenn.daniel · March 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_modesty-travel?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:099b3d86-7eda-4a29-9167-f09a8f6c7c87Post:a36b3df2-9be4-41c8-bbbf-9db1936ff4ef">Re: Modesty and Travel</a>:
[QUOTE]This thread has gotten way off topic... but FWIW Jenn, Herpes =/= HPV. HPV is Human Papillomavirus, which certain strains CAN be known to cause cancer (among other things). Also, I'm pretty sure most contraception methods require a pelvic exam other than condoms. I'm sorry to hear that you experience panic attacks during those kind of visits. Does it happen at the dermatologist too? Is it something you are praying about and seeking attention for? I only ask out of concern because it would be much harder to deal with if that happened with your husband down the road too.
Posted by Bre2Be[/QUOTE]

I can't believe I confused herpes and hpv....

I have been praying about this, and I HAVE gotten better. Before college, friends couldn't hug me without telling me or I'd flinch. The dermatologist was the first time I dealt well with a stranger touching me. FI was there, which helped. I'd gone because I DO do self checks for unusual moles and had had one removed by my primaray care dr.

I've been to my primary doctor once since then to address my anxiety/depression issues (again). I'm on a higher dose of anti-anxiety medicine, and she's recommended some therapists for me.

uneek1323 · March 2011

I'm sorry that your suffer from anxiety and depression. I've been there and therapy really helped me. I hope it does for you as well. I'm confused though... Do you refuse to be seen by a doctor becuase of anxiety or because of modesty. I think we're talking about 2 different things here.

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