Severe Batchelor Party Worries

hutchandcurly · June 2010

Ok here is the problem...
1) I have been cheated on before by my ex-boyfriend, so I have these serve underlying fears that I can't seem to squash. (And I totally trusted my ex)

2) I do trust my FI, but he has never given me a reason for me not to trust him until today when he lied about his bachelor party date to cover my bridal shower date.

3) I know he is a joker but joking about fooling around with a stripper is NOT funny and just makes me very nervous and agitated and my blood pressure to go up even more.

4) We have discussed the rules no strippers, period, simply because he friends that don't listen and cheat on their girlfriends all the time and on of them is the host for his first bachelor party. Yes he is having two!

5) I am not worried about the second one because of the company that he is with. It is the first one that I am sick over.

Does anyone have any suggestions besides saying "Trust him" because that does nothing for me? And did I say my Shower is the day before his bachelor party so its not like my friends can hang out with me for two days to keep me from going nutty. Oh and now he is saying he is sleeping over at his buddies house who I don't like or trust!

banana468 · June 2010

Well, regarding the trust issue on #2, it sounds like he did that to try to turn your shower into something that was a surprise. So please don't hold that white lie against him since it doesn't sound like he was lying to cover his own behind.

Regarding the fooling around with a stripper, I agree with you. That's cheating. Seeing a stripper is one thing but engaging in sexual stuff with one is different.

That said, why do you equate going to a strip club to cheating on a SO? For example, I had a college BF who cheated on me for almost a year with three of my friends. During that time, he never went to a strip club - he just let them fall on his wang repeatedly.

Conversely, I've been married to DH for almost three years. He's been to strip clubs (one we went to together) and I know that I trust him. If he gets a lap dance, it starts and ends with the business and goes no further. The big thing here - I trust my husband.

I know some people have moral isues with strippers and strip clubs but it seems that your issues are more centered on trust than on any moral level. Really, I think you need to take a step back to look at the big picture. Maybe therapy for you or both of you is something to consider. You need to know that you're trusting your FI anywhere he goes. Temptation happens in all places and my guess is that a professional stripper in a club is the last person who will fool around with your FI.

waltzingmatilda13 · June 2010

Yep, I got nothing new.

The only advice I can give is to trust him. You're marrying him for reason, right? Because you love and trust him and expect him to be respectful of you. That means even when he's not in your immdiate company.

And please just remember that if you make a big deal out of this you're going to look like the nutty one. He will be upset that you don't trust him and his cheating friends might rib on him and do exactly what you don't want.

Sorry, but this is all I have to offer you.

hutchandcurly · June 2010

Thanks Banana,
I wouldn't mind if he went to a classy strip club, I have been there with him before. Its the fact that his friend has no class and I will not put it past him (the friend) to hire a stripper to go to a private function at his house. I am not cool with that at all! I don't want anybody touching my man. Looking is fine being touch or touching someone else is totally cheating. When he told me this friend was going to be a groomsman I asked him multiple times if he was sure, get this he still has not gotten measured! It gets better at his sister wedding he got so drunk that he threwup all over himself BEFORE the wedding. So I have to be a bi@#hzilla and put all these rules into place. Not to mention when they go out for a few drinks no one can ever be responsible and be a DD. I am the one that calls to check on them and I have to go pick them up.

And you are right, my shower was suppose to be a surprise but too many people spilled the beans and I have a great memory. And one of my MOH totally dropped the ball with my future mother in law and didn't contact her back. My Future MIL likes to host so they didn't contact her back after multiple emails. So I found out that this past weekend she was all worried which only happens when something is about to happen. So it made me even more solid on the date, then someone spilled the beans this morning. So I am going to find my other MOH and tell her I know the date.

The other thing is all my friends are going to be with me on Saturday for the shower, they don't want to stay two days with me. Day and Night I am a nervous wreck.

frenchy730 · June 2010

I think you should take a deep breath and calm down. Your fiance is marrying YOU. I don't know much about your relationship other than what you've posted here, but I like to believe that in general, engaged guys are not going to jepordize loosing the loves of their lives over a one night stand with a random stripper. Also, usually strippers want nothing to do with these guys, beyond doing their jobs. Even if you don't trust your fiance's friends, you should still trust that your fiance has self-control and cares about you and your relationship.

raniacharles · June 2010

This is really very simple. No excuses. No rationalization. No manipulation of making this into a trust issue. .

You have the right to not be comfortable with other naked women in your relationship.
You have the right to not want strippers be a part of your wedding celebration festivities.
Your fiance should respect you--and this is absolutely an issue of respect.
There is temptation everywhere. But it's lame to equate temptation on the street, with temptation with naked women, at a bachelor party, when everyone is drunk and egging each other on.
The friends he chose says something about him. You are going nutty because deep down you know that. You really hope that you can rationalize all of this away, like your friends are encouraging you to do.
You have the right to expect that the groomsmen, who are there to help stand up for and celebrate your marriage, would not disrespect you.
You don't have to believe that watching naked women or having them grind on you is not sexual activity.   Not everyone thinks that sex means just intercourse. There are many people for whom foreplay is part of sex, and foreplay includes watching someone undress and having them grind on you.
It may be true that engaged guys should not endanger their love by having sex with a stripper, but in that case, they should not endanger their love by making her upset or nervous by cavorting with strippers, even if there is no sex. Strippers should just not be all that important to him, and in that case, it should be no big deal for him to skip the strippers.
Getting married is an important commitment for both of you. He should be trying to please you. You would do that for him.   It's really weird that women feel that they have to convince each other that men are entitled to strippers as a normal part of a guy's getting married experience.

banana468 · June 2010

Raniacharles, I understand what you're saying, but please understand something: For for strippers doing this for a living in a legitimate place (often a reputable club and not a sleazy one who will show up to a hotel room), the lap dance is no more sexual to her than a waitress getting drinks. It's her JOB to do this and the stripper is getting NO sexual enjoyment out of the practice.

That said, I'm with you on the private aspect where the rules aren't as clear cut. It's why I told DH I'd much rather he go to a good club than to have a stripper in a hotel room.

Just remember, that a stripper isn't there to get her sexual enjoyment. It's often about power for the woman.

And as I said above, a man who will cheat is going to cheat with anyone - a stripper is probably the LEAST likely person he will cheat with.

raniacharles · June 2010

I have to say that some of the logic escapes me. Who cares if the activity is sexual for the stripper. She is not marrying the stripper. The activity is sexual for her fiance. That is why he is going--to get turned on.

Also, can we please stop with the excuses. While I am sure that stripping is a power trip for some women, its also degrading for many others. And, please, he can cheat anywhere, but it's a tad lame to rationalize this way. It is simply not the same to be walking on the street versus going to a place with naked women while you are dead drunk. Finally, strippers are not the least likely people with which to cheat. This is incredibly naive, and its manipulative for someone to use that to convince another person that strippers are just fine. While there are many strippers who will not have sex with their clients, there are many who will (or who will perform with a good deal of quasi sex--again if you think it's not sex unless actual PIV intercourse occurs this does not apply.) Strippers who do bachelor parties often know that they can make a lot of money with extras. Finally, it is sad that women feel reduced to bargaining with their fiance not to have strippers at a hotel. I mean, is that his compromise?

If you are fine with strippers, cool. But lame rationalizations to convince other women who are not fine with them that your fiance is entitled to this activity if he is marrying you does not help them, does not strengthen marriages, and makes many women feel that it is not OK to expect their fiance to respect their wishes about something as fundamental as their sexual boundaries.

banana468 · June 2010

Rania, do you have ANY grounds to back up your statements??

1) If the issue is that she views a lap dance as crossing boundaries as cheating then I understand. The FI is getting his jollies and that's inappropriate. BUT

That isn't sexual for the stripper. She's doing a job - a sexual one but one that 9 times out of 10, brings zero sexual pleasure for her. Again, this is assuming that we're talking about reputable high end places and not sleazy ones or a stripper that will do house calls - totally different call there.

2) what does this even mean? [QUOTE]And, please, he can cheat anywhere, but it's a tad lame to rationalize this way. It is simply not the same to be walking on the street versus going to a place with naked women while you are dead drunk. Finally, strippers are not the least likely people with which to cheat. This is incredibly naive, and its manipulative for someone to use that to convince another person that strippers are just fine. [/QUOTE]

Bottom line is, a guy who will cheat will cheat. Going to a strip CLUB isn't cheating. Most of them (again, reputable ones) have serious rules about what touching is even allowed by the men. And a guy who can't control himself when he's drunk can't control himself sober. If you don't believe that then YOU are the naive one.

As I said, I was cheated on by an ex boyfriend who never went to strip clubs but he had no problems with sleeping with three of my friends. Cheating occurs in relationships ALL the time. One doesn't need to go to a strip club to find temptation so if the concern is with trust, it's a relationship issue and not a strip club issue.

If you dislike stripping and find it offensive then I can understand that and that's something you and your FI/DH need to understand together. But to come up with BOGUS allegations and references with ZERO backup to your statements doesn't do a service for women either. In fact, it only makes you look rather narrow minded and uneducated about the matter.

IMO, it all depends on the type of business that you choose to patronize. Stripping doesn't have to be underhanded and seedy.

bablingbrooke · June 2010

It's one thing if your FI goes to strip clubs on a regular basis. It's one thing if your FI gets a bunch of hookers for his bach party. It's quite another that he goes to a strip club for his bach party. In the first two situations, I think you'd have a legitimate concern. In the last case, I think you don't.

If you have trust issues like this, I don't think you're ready to get married. If you can't trust your FI not to cheat on you to the point that you're going to forbid him to go to a strip club for a few hours at his bach party, I think you need to resolve some things together. I can appreciate the trust issues, but people with those sorts of trust issues aren't ready to handle relationships yet. I've had more than a few friends end relationships because the BF/GF was too paranoid about them cheating because of an experience with a past partner. They start to feel guilty despite not doing anything. It casts a shadow over the relationship and eventually the other partner wants out.

When my DH went to his bach party, his friends took him to a strip club. It was mostly about embarrassing him, not turning him on. From what I hear, it worked. I trust him, I knew he didn't do anything, and he had fun with his friends. If he were to start going to them every Tuesday night, we'd have a big problem. But a one-off for a bach party isn't the same thing.

Watching a girl take her clothes off ≠ having sex with her. There's a very big difference.

blackfire5th · June 2010

OP- have you had any pre-wedding counseling together?

hutchandcurly · June 2010

We have gone to Pre-cana and had multiple session with our priest. The bottom line is I don't want strippers, period. The other bottom line is the groomsman that organized this party has TOTALLY disregarded my wishes and has totally disrespect me and has been sneaking around my back. And my FI is currently supporting him. There are so many issues with this groomsman and trust me I have told my FI how I feel. And his response was he has know him longer than me! WTF! I am going to be his wife and he needs respect my feelings and back me up regardless whether he agrees or disagrees! I can't begin to tell you all how angry I am, this goes well beyond strippers. You all talk about Trust well if your FI knows something is going to go on even if it disrespect you and your wishes then something is wrong how can you trust someone that won't put his "friends" in line. Plus isn't you wedding party suppose to be the people that will support you through your marriage? I feel that they should. I don't want someone in my wedding party that is sneaking around my back obviously he doesn't support our relationship, in fact I feel like he is trying his best to destroy it. Of course it would take mountain ranges of more s@$! to destroy what we have. But I don't like arguing with my FI. However he owes me an apology for a multitude of things that he said to me today. And until then I really don't know how to make heads or tails of this.
As for the stripper stuff he is not going to a classy place. He is going to a place that is known for the "extra back room". So please don't say anything about strippers. I am normally fine with it as we have gone together as a couple before but not stumble down drunks that they will be.
Last thing the groomsman can't even be responsible enough to hire limo for the day, so they have a DD. Again WTF

blackfire5th · June 2010

The problems that you just described are a FI problem, not a groomsmen problem. Have you spoken to your priest about this problem specifically? This is definitely something that you want to get hashed out before the wedding, because I'm seeing a lot of red flags with your FI from what you are describing and would be seriously reconsidering getting married to anyone who was not putting me first. It doesn't sound like your FI is mature enough to be getting married.

I realize that I don't know your entire relationship, but I do really think you need to talk to someone specifically about your FI sneaking around and supporting his friend over you.

bablingbrooke · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_pre-wedding-parties_severe-batchelor-party-worries?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:32Discussion:51fe5270-7afa-44ec-88df-be4f465d8103Post:e1380811-780c-411b-a844-5343d93a4fab">Re: Severe Batchelor Party Worries</a>:
[QUOTE]We have gone to Pre-cana and had multiple session with our priest. The bottom line is I don't want strippers, period. The other bottom line is the groomsman that organized this party has TOTALLY disregarded my wishes and has totally disrespect me and has been sneaking around my back. And my FI is currently supporting him. There are so many issues with this groomsman and trust me I have told my FI how I feel. And his response was he has know him longer than me! WTF! I am going to be his wife and he needs respect my feelings and back me up regardless whether he agrees or disagrees! I can't begin to tell you all how angry I am, this goes well beyond strippers. You all talk about Trust well if your FI knows something is going to go on even if it disrespect you and your wishes then something is wrong how can you trust someone that won't put his "friends" in line. Plus isn't you wedding party suppose to be the people that will support you through your marriage? I feel that they should. I don't want someone in my wedding party that is sneaking around my back obviously he doesn't support our relationship, in fact I feel like he is trying his best to destroy it. Of course it would take mountain ranges of more s@$! to destroy what we have. But I don't like arguing with my FI. However he owes me an apology for a multitude of things that he said to me today. And until then I really don't know how to make heads or tails of this. As for the stripper stuff he is not going to a classy place. He is going to a place that is known for the "extra back room". So please don't say anything about strippers. I am normally fine with it as we have gone together as a couple before but not stumble down drunks that they will be. Last thing the groomsman can't even be responsible enough to hire limo for the day, so they have a DD. Again WTF
Posted by hutchandcurly[/QUOTE]
Ditto blackfire. This is a relationship problem. I think there are two major things going on here, just based on what I've read:<div>
</div><div>1. You were burned by a prior partner and now your FI is presumed guilty until proven innocent.</div><div>2. Your FI does things that seriously bother you behind your back and knows it bothers you.</div><div>
</div><div>I think one feeds the other. I think you need to work on your trust issues--he sneaks around because you don't trust him anyway. Likewise, he needs to work on learning why things bother you and to stop doing things that upset you. But again, based on what I've read here, there are some deep relationship issues going on. I think you two would benefit from couples' counseling. </div><div>
</div><div>I do disagree that the GM must not support the marriage if he wants to take your FI to a strip club. There's no connection between the two. I'm betting he sees you as some paranoid gal who won't let her FI have any fun and he's going to do something about it. It doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't support the marriage, though if I had a friend whose FI reacted to things the way you do, I might have some reservations. </div>

hutchandcurly · June 2010

Ladies after much of me not backing down we hashed it out.
My FI did not know...
1)That the GM and I spoke months ago at length after the stripper issue.
2)That the GM was told that my FI had to come to my shower either in the beginning or the end to say thank you. The GM told me flat out that my FI did not have to do that and the the GM party was more important. Personally I think it is rude if the groom doesn't say thank you. (I don't know if I mentioned this before but the GM hadn't check with my girls or us in the beginning about our schedules or availability.
3) That the GM was planning on sneaking around my back after I found out about the strip club from another friends wife who would not let her husband go to the party because they were going to the strip club even though my FI and I both said no.
4) The GM was not in communication with me about changing dates and plans.
5) The GM only emailed my MOH twice not a constant thing he was claiming he did.

My FI did...
1) Talk to the GM at length of how I felt and my FI did not want to go or do something that would get me upset or disrespect me.
2) Tell the GM that he had only this week to get fitted for his tux no excuses. He is now fitted.
3) He did tell the GM that I strongly feel that the GM does not respect me or the fact that we are getting married. And the fact that we are a couple that he either supports or he doesn't but he had to make the decision. And in order to stand with us on our wedding day that both of us feel the people standing around us are the ones that will get us through thick and thin. And if they can't do that then they shouldn't be standing there.
4) No excuses there will be a hired DD or else we (the groom and the bride) will pay for a limo so people can have a good time and be safe.
5) My FI does support me in thanking everyone at the bridal party. Whether or not his friends thinks isn't neccesary or "gay" -That is a GM comment.
6) Promised me that at any point if the GM decides to go against what my FI and I discussed that he would call for a ride from either his parents or myself.
7) He did apologize for what he said to me.

So needless to say a lot of things have totally backfired in the GM face and he is suppose to call me but I highly doubt he will. Like I said the GM is very immature. I am very happy my FI put him in his place. There are boundaries that friends and family should not cross. And when they do it is very important that we stick together as a couple regardless if we agree or not.

Blackfire you are right I was burned really bad by my ex, we were talking about getting married at the time, rings the whole nine yards. So it is hard for me. In my life I have never felt complete. My FI and I complete each other and the simple thought that someone would try to harm that scares me and it brings me back to those days when my ex cheated and those emotions. Getting married doesn't scare me but what does is not being able to work through things. My mom has been married three times and every time it got rough for her she would run away. SO what scare me is I DON'T want to be like my mom. So I am trying my hardest to recognize when we aren't communicating and sharing and hash that out before it comes a problem.

And I want to clarify my FI was not sneaking around my back it was his GM. My FI was assuming his GM would bring him to a strip club. What I didn't know was my FI had been told his GM that is not what he or I wanted. My FI was prepared to call his parents or me if his GM did bring him there or if he was put in a situation that was not safe or would get him into trouble.

hutchandcurly · June 2010

PS sorry it takes me so long to post I work a lot!

blackfire5th · June 2010

I'm really glad that everything is working out. I was concerned about your FI was going to go to a strip club even though he knew your feelings about it, but I'm glad that was just a miscommunication.

There is also a difference between running when things get hard and knowing when to get out of a bad thing.

raniacharles · June 2010

I am glad that Hutchandcurly was true to herself and insisted the her FI communicate with her and that he and GM respect her wishes, despite the many people on here (and I'll bet IRL) who tried to convince her that she has trust issues and that she should be OK with strippers. She doesn't want strippers as part of her pre-wedding festivities. This does not mean she has trust issues, or that she is scarred from a previous relationship. That is total crap. Some women just don't think that their guy is entitled to have other naked women entertain him just because he is getting married.

Some of the replies really astound me. I keep on wondering how women get manipulated into this type of thinking.

That isn't sexual for the stripper. She's doing a job - a sexual one but one that 9 times out of 10, brings zero sexual pleasure for her

Who cares whether or not it is sexual for the stripper. I agree.  It's not sexual for the stripper.   But, she's not marrying the stripper. I'm not even sure why this point is being made. She is marrying her fiance and it is sexual for him.

Bottom line is, a guy who will cheat will cheat. Going to a strip CLUB isn't cheating. Most of them (again, reputable ones) have serious rules about what touching is even allowed by the men. And a guy who can't control himself when he's drunk can't control himself sober. If you don't believe that then YOU are the naive one.

Sure, some guys who will cheat will cheat.    But, for some men, cheating is much more likely with naked women around then while walking on the street. One of the most important ways to decrease the likelihood of cheating is to avoid situations that are permissive for cheating. Also, going to a strip club isn't cheating for you. But it is cheating for other people.   Many people consider having lap dances, that is naked women grinding your crotch, cheating. And if the neighbor undressed for fiance, that's cheating. So, a stripper is not necessarily different.   And, if you think that people don't do things drunk that they would never do sober, you are living in lala land.  In fact, a lot of people get drunk just so they can feel comfortable doing things they would never do sober, and so they can have an excuse for what they did.

It's one thing if your FI goes to strip clubs on a regular basis. It's one thing if your FI gets a bunch of hookers for his bach party. It's quite another that he goes to a strip club for his bach party. In the first two situations, I think you'd have a legitimate concern. In the last case, I think you don't.

Why do you get to decide what is worse. I know women who think that going to a strip club for a bachelor party is worse than on a regular Tuesday, because it symbolizes a violation of the sanctity of their upcoming marriage. But, regardless, why should men be entitled to a free pass on bachelor party
night. If you don't want strippers to be part of your relationship, why should they be part of it two days before the wedding.

If you have trust issues like this, I don't think you're ready to get married. If you can't trust your FI not to cheat on you to the point that you're going to forbid him to go to a strip club for a few hours at his bach party, I think you need to resolve some things together. I can appreciate the trust issues, but people with those sorts of trust issues aren't ready to handle relationships yet. I've had more than a few friends end relationships because the BF/GF was too paranoid about them cheating because of an experience with a past partner. They start to feel guilty despite not doing anything. It casts a shadow over the relationship and eventually the other partner wants out.
Once again, the bogus trust issues. This has nothing to do with trust or a bad previous experience. This has to do with a women's right to expect her fiance to respect her sexual boundaries, especially right before they are getting married. Instead of the text above to the fiancee, how about this to her FH.If you have lack of respect issues like this, I don't think you're ready to get married. If you can't respect your FW enough to not go to a strip club for a few hours at your bach party, I think you need to resolve some things together.  I can appreciate that you feel entitled to a strip club, but people with those sorts of lack of respect issues aren't ready to handle relationships yet. I've had more than a few friends end relationships because the BF/GF did not respect each other . They make the other party feel guilty despite their asking for small things, like not going to a strip club.  It casts a shadow over the relationship and eventually the other partner wants out.

I do disagree that the GM must not support the marriage if he wants to take your FI to a strip club. There's no connection between the two. I'm betting he sees you as some paranoid gal who won't let her FI have any fun and he's going to do something about it.

GM does not support the marriage because he wants to take FI to a strip club despite the fact that it violates her sexual boundaries.   And, if he sees you as a woman who won't let her FI have any fun and he's going to do something about it then he DEFINITELY does not support your marriage. It is not his job to do something about it. FI chose this paranoid woman to marry, and I'll bet after going out with her for years he knew how she feels about strippers. And, I'll bet he voluntarily proposed. It is only common decency for GM to respect their relationship and her feelings.

Last thing. Yes, I do know strippers, since my step sister is a stripper. This girl has a heart of gold and is gorgeous. And it's definitely not sexual. In fact, she despises the guys and their boorish behavior.   (The boor she despises is someone's FI, by the way. And she usually has a pretty good reason for calling him a boor; but, as she says, at least she's not marrying him.)   And thinking that she and her friends don't give extras for a few dollars, especially at bachelor parties, is really naive. The girls who do bachelor parties often rake it in with the extras.

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