Viviannac

Lolyalyssa · April 2010

Vivianna,

I took both NJ and NY. (I practice in NYC).

You are going to laugh at the lunch break for NJ because its so EASY. I mean it about 6 essays that are just spot the issue, IRAC type essays. I means its almost a joke and its like a flashback to being a 1L.

That being said, I opened the NY essays and the first one was on Commercial Paper summer of 2007. Hahaha...yes Barbri says its never happens and it did to us. I skipped it, went to the next question and came back at the end and it was no problem.

You will hear so much advice but if you do what Barbri tells you and you literally cut out your whole social life and just study from May to July you will be fine. A typical day is: go to barbri all morning, study all afternoon (until like 5 or 6pm), go home and eat, watch TV for two hours, go to bed and REPEAT. Do this, and you will be fine. If you have the confidence going into the exam that you know you studied your hardest that confidence is KEY the day of the test.

I did outlines and turned them into notecards for EVERY topic, multi-state and state and this helped. I also did them with different color pens just to keep myself awake.

[All this being said my fiance played video games until two weeks before the bar, studied and got a higher MBE score then me

. Yes, I wanted to kill him that summer

]

viviannac · April 2010

Thanks I am cutting & pasting this in order to print it out. I really appreciate the post b/c you actually went through it recently and are willing to share your experience. Everyone suggested that I take the NY course and just prepare for Jersey on my own so that is my game plan.

I am a little nervous about it because Bar Bri starts end of May and I have to work half days during June and then go to BarBri in the afternoon, so I hope that there are enough hours in the day to get it all done. I am taking all of July off from work. In between all of this, I also have to try to find a new job.

Are you with a firm? What area do you practice in? Do you like it?

akmackay · April 2010

Butting in- did you/are you going to the Bar Bri in Times Square? We get inundated in May with everyone- it's such a pain trying to get on the elevator at 5:30 when they are all leaving haha. But if so, maybe I'll see you during the summer!

uppereastgirl · April 2010

You don't need to study for NJ at all. All of the material for NJ is covered by your NY bar prep. The NJ bar exam is just one essay each about the 6 big topics, and there are no state distinctions.

NY was tough, and I hated taking NJ right after it because I just wanted to go home to sleep (I actually showed up late because I got lost, and told the guy at the door that it was okay if he didn't let me in. He unfortunately did.) But NJ really is nothing to worry about if you're prepared for NY.

Our NY exam also featured lots of the topics that only get tested once every 10 years. We had a whole essay on no-fault insurance. One thing to keep in mind is that no-one is well-prepared for the obscure topics, and the test is on a curve, so it is fine if you don't knock every essay out of the park. I doubt I had anything right about no-fault insurance, and I passed the exam.

I am always a last-minute person, so I went to Barbri every day, procrastinated and didn't really study in the afternoon, and then got really scared after fourth of July (and after we took a prep MBE and I failed HORRIBLY), got my act together and crammed for those three weeks, and did fine. You'll find a way to make it work with your schedule.

Lolyalyssa · April 2010

Vivianna,

DEFINITELY take the NY Barbri course. Don't even worry about NJ. It REALLY is a joke. I didn't go to a super fancy law school, I graduated with a 3.0 and I promise you its a JOKE.

NY is NOT a joke. I went to law school in NYC so for me a lot of it was review but for you the NY stuff will be new. NY is a strange state like that and many of the rules are NY specific so you will need to learn those.

That being said, you will be OK in May. May is just about getting into the grove. It doesn't really amp up until June. Unless you absolutely HAVE to work in June I would really try not to work. That being said, you have done law school at night so you may be able to handle it. Definitely by the time Barbri ends you need to be doing full day study.

Keep in mind, its a marathon and NOT a sprint. It's about keeping FOCUS. So if you can't take the time off in June don't let it take away from your focus. Two hours of focused study is better than four hours where you are unfocused. NO INTERNET during study time

Don't stress about it because the stress will take away from the focus you need to study. You literally have to block every thing out--no friends that stress you, no shows or movies that stress you out, no stressful family/FI drama, no wedding drama. You study, you eat, you sleep and the highlight of your day becomes treating yourself to an ice cream cone or a Frappuccino.

Don't try to look for a job while you are studying for the bar. It will make you crazy. Again, unless you absolutely have to do so.

That being said, it is totally DOABLE if you do what they tell you and keep focus.

I really remember having days where I had to remind myself to go to bathroom. I mean looking back on it makes me cringe but at the same time I'm so proud I did what I had to do to pass. I mean otherwise what is law school for if you can't practice?

You can totally do it. If you do what they tell you, you will leave the exam KNOWING that you passed and November will just be confirmation.

PS
I do criminal law in the city and I work for the government and yes I love it.

Lolyalyssa · April 2010

Allie,

I took Barbri in Times Sq. and I hated the elevators!

But I loved the Starbucks and the proximity to the Bryant Park library where I studied.

Lolyalyssa · April 2010

Oh yeah take the practice MBE that Barbri offers at the Javits Center. It kicks your ass, scares you and then you study more. Good point Uppereast.

It also gives you a feel for what the day of the bar is like and how important it is to have a watch!

uppereastgirl · April 2010

After the practice MBE I started getting calls from BarBri people about extra studying/tutoring/etc. I did REALLY BADLY because although I was good about going to BarBri, I did none of the homework. I never did a single practice essay while studying. But you really have to stick to what works for your studying style -- for me (unless I'm really, really excited about a subject, which never happened to me in law school) it is procrastinate, procrastinate, procrastinate and then cram at the last minute when the situation is dire. And hey, that can work for the person who is wired for that.

viviannac · April 2010

Lolyalyssa and Uppereast - Thanks for all the tips, I will certainly keep them in mind. You knottie lawyers are the best

Lolyalyssa - Just out of curiosity, where did you go to law school?

Allie - No, I won't be taking it in Times Square b/c its more expensive to commute in to the CIty and Barbri offers the NY course in Newark. But maybe we'll get a chance to meet at a GTG sometime.

Lolyalyssa · April 2010

Yeah I procrastinated A LOT in law school but I was too scared about failing the bar so I took the marathon study approach. I had confidence going into the bar and when I walked out I knew I passed and didn't stress every day until November.

But you passed too so whatever works. It just scared me too much so I had to force myself not to procrastinate. I was just too sick and tired of procrastination and I didn't want the stress of procrastination to take away from my focus.

Marathon approach works every time in my experience and procrastination approach has risk and I wasn't risking the bar exam.

If you do your best and you take a marathon approach you WILL pass.

But like I said, my FI took the procrastination approach and did fine but man was it frustrating for me. But he also has an engineering degree, passed the patent bar on the first try and graduated law school near the top of our class so I knew that he could afford to take the risk and I couldn't.

Lolyalyssa · April 2010

Uppereast "Am I really the only one who had fun and friends while in law school? It wasn't as fun as college, and I'd disappear during exam time and during the last month of studying for the bar, but I definitely had free time and plenty of time to go out, make new friends, keep the old, etc. I just don't see that as much of an excuse, particularly if he's a 3L now (I had TONS of free time 3L year). I've also had plenty of time for friends and fun as an associate at a large law firm (as long as friends understand last-minute cancellations and disappearing for short periods of time). Part-time law school with a full-time job is of course a different story, but I don't think that being a law student/lawyer means that someone should necessarily fall off the face of the earth."

Uppereast:

I found that a lot of times you hang out less with college friends and you make new friends who are lawyers etc... while you are in law school. My tolerance for certain people and certain conversations went down as law school progressed and not all of my college friends and I stayed close.

So in my mind the potential groomsmen from the other thread just may not want to hang around them anymore OR he is swamped with school. I suggested the later because I think they should give him the benefit of the doubt. But the most recent post makes me think it might be the former.

Also, I paid for ALL of law school myself so I really didn't want to take a risk with the bar because I knew I had to pay Access Group.

(I'm not suggesting you procrastinated for the bar because you didn't pay for law school yourself, I'm just saying that was a huge motivation for my marathon study approach).

viviannac · April 2010

I found that a lot of times you hang out less with college friends and you make new friends who are lawyers etc... while you are in law school. My tolerance for certain people and certain conversations went down as law school progressed and not all of my college friends and I stayed close.

This is very true. I also find that you establish a pretty tight bond with your law school friends probably b/c of the common experience. 3 of my 5 BMs are my closest law school friends.

I guess my experience has also been very different b/c I go at night and most of my classmates work F/T during the day and go to school at night. I wish I could have done it during the day, but I did it at night and even without a lot of free time, I have managed somewhat of a life.

YES, ACCESS GROUP IS A HUGE MOTIVATOR!

uppereastgirl · April 2010

My parents helped with my living expenses in law school, but I came out with 6 figures worth of debt... and knowing that failing the bar once would lead to a huge stigma at my firm and failing twice meant I would lose my job.

But unfortunately, you can't fit a square peg in a round hole, you can't teach an old dog new tricks, etc... So trying a new studying discipline just didn't work for me even though it certainly would have been a better way to spend my summer. My points, which I don't think I made well, are that yes you can pass the bar exam if you only have July to spend 100% of your time studying, and that you kind of have to be realistic about what works for you and if you're someone who needs last-minute pressure to really hunker down, maybe that's what you'll still need to do and it *can* work out okay.

I agree with you about the progression of friendships, but I think that happens with all life transitions... high school to college, college to law school, law school to law practice, etc. People can grow apart as their lives change no matter what path their lives take. I of course hung out less with college friends in law school because they didn't live near me, their schedules were different from mine (a lot had jobs), etc. My tolerance of people and conversations also decreased during law school, but in my case it was that I stopped tolerating law students and regressed to wanting to talk to non-law people

Lolyalyssa · April 2010

I wish I had gone at night and worked full time because now Access Group is more of bill than I would like it to be.

Good for you Vivianna for doing it at night! We had a big night program and I should have gone at night because now I'm going to have to leave my super fun job as a prosecutor to go to a firm (eventually when they start hiring again). Such is life.

What kind of law do you want to practice?

Lolyalyssa · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/local-wedding-boards_new-jersey_viviannac-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Local Wedding BoardsForum:90Discussion:18cb59d7-626d-40a3-abc9-7d4adf214547Post:22dd978c-3360-4085-8dbe-73146c055c99">Re: *Viviannac*</a>:
[QUOTE]My tolerance of people and conversations also decreased during law school, but in my case it was that I stopped tolerating law students and regressed to wanting to talk to non-law people :)
Posted by uppereastgirl[/QUOTE]

This happened to me some what when I started working and I actually find that most of my non-law school girlfriends are teachers. Maybe that's why I like this board... That and sometimes its better just to escape conversations with other lawyers to give your brain a break.

uppereastgirl · April 2010

Most of my friends are lawyers, and a lot are from my firm, but I find them a lot more normal than my fellow law students. Most of the kids I went to law school with were nice and meant well, but there were lots who were gunners or at least really, really loved the law and hadn't yet gotten the sense knocked into them that not everyone wants to talk about law 24/7. I live near NYU's law school and I cringe when I overhear some of their conversations on the street/in restaurants. My firm I think drew more of the normal crowd, so I definitely related to those people more (although now that balance has kind of shifted). I've found all of the lawyers and law students on this board to be entirely tolerable, which is one of the nicest things you can say about a group of lawyers

And yes, it is very nice to be around friends and knotties who aren't lawyers.

Lolyalyssa · April 2010

Yeah I definetely have more friends I've met since becomming a lawyer than I had in law school. Law school is such a stressful time its hard to really relate to people for who they are and you bond more over the stress. (I think this is less true for night students though Vivianna)

Uppereast, what kind of law do you practice?

viviannac · April 2010

I have worked in the bankruptcy field, as a paralegal, for close to ten years so I think that will be the best way to get my foot in the door. I briefly looked into the DA's office b/c I like public service but with Access Group lurking, survival would be close to impossible.

At this point, I am open to all possibilities and hopefully something will come along sooner rather than later.

And yes, it is very nice to be around friends and knotties who aren't lawyers. YES, I think this board provides many different points of views and that makes it more interesting.

uppereastgirl · April 2010

Vivianna, bankruptcy is probably a good way to get your foot in the door because that's certainly a hot field in this economy...

I do commercial lit.

Lolyalyssa · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/local-wedding-boards_new-jersey_viviannac-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Local Wedding BoardsForum:90Discussion:18cb59d7-626d-40a3-abc9-7d4adf214547Post:05455d90-c921-4e37-9036-71ab31acc10f">Re: *Viviannac*</a>:
[QUOTE]II briefly looked into the DA's office b/c I like public service but with Access Group lurking, survival would be close to impossible. Posted by viviannac[/QUOTE]

Welcome to my world. I love the job, hate the paycheck.

Bankruptcy is so hot. You'll be fine. Especially with the experience.

Uppereast, how often do you go to trial?

uppereastgirl · April 2010

Hahaha -- I'm at a big law firm so nothing ever goes to trial. In 5 years, I've had one case that was actually tried. I've had four large-scale arbitration hearings (each was several weeks long and over $500 million was at stake, so they weren't *that* different from a trial -- or at least the hours and work product demanded definitely weren't), a few smaller arbitration hearings, and my two other cases that actually went to trial (one was pro bono, one was for a paying client, but both were small cases) settled during jury selection.

And naturally, junior or mid-level associates would never ever ever do examinations during any of these (unless they were pro bono, but the pro bono case that went to trial had like 15 associates on it, and I was only a second year then). I've done depositions (somewhat rare for my class year) and have done court conferences, but have never been anything other than second (or third or fourth) chair.

There are small pockets of the litigation group that actually do try things -- the sports litigation group, for example -- but we really don't have many trials at all.

viviannac · April 2010

Hahaha -- I'm at a big law firm so nothing ever goes to trial.
Very funny Uppereast.

Thank you ladies, I am banking on my bk experience to help land me a job. Yes, it is a very hot field right now, so I want to strike while the iron is hot.

Lolyalyssa · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/local-wedding-boards_new-jersey_viviannac-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Local Wedding BoardsForum:90Discussion:18cb59d7-626d-40a3-abc9-7d4adf214547Post:b1a9c7fc-17fb-4425-a765-9ce8527ac077">Re: *Viviannac*</a>:
[QUOTE]Hahaha -- I'm at a big law firm so nothing ever goes to trial. In 5 years, I've had one case that was actually tried. I've had four large-scale arbitration hearings (each was several weeks long and over $500 million was at stake, so they weren't *that* different from a trial -- or at least the hours and work product demanded definitely weren't), a few smaller arbitration hearings, and my two other cases that actually went to trial (one was pro bono, one was for a paying client, but both were small cases) settled during jury selection. And naturally, junior or mid-level associates would never ever ever do examinations during any of these (unless they were pro bono, but the pro bono case that went to trial had like 15 associates on it, and I was only a second year then). I've done depositions (somewhat rare for my class year) and have done court conferences, but have never been anything other than second (or third or fourth) chair. There are small pockets of the litigation group that actually do try things -- the sports litigation group, for example -- but we really don't have many trials at all.
Posted by uppereastgirl[/QUOTE]

<img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" /> That's what I kind of thought you would say. I've done a ton of trials, grand jury presentations, hearings etc... I really don't know if I can leave the DA's office until after I try a homicide.

But once I do, I really need to make more money. I mean its just killer. It gets to a point where you just don't want to sacrifice all sorts of other things for the job.

It sounds like you like the job though so it gives me encouragement. (I really want encouragement!) I

Viviannac

Re: Viviannac

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