NWR... I can already see where my family is going with this.

Knottie7c1f0275a5880499 · December 2012

Hello all,

My SO and I have been together for four years, and naturally, we are talking about marriage, but are waiting to tie the knot until we are a little older and more settled in our lives (we are both 22).

He and my family, namely my extended family, because my parents love him, disagree over a lot of things. I believe that their differing viewpoints are due to the fact that he is Muslim and a majority of my family is Christian.

My parents received a box of Christmas presents from my favorite aunt and cousin today, and in it were presents for my parents, myself, my brother, and my brother's girlfriend, whom he has only been dating for two months. Nothing of my SO. They know him, they know that he is a huge part of my life and family, and that we intend to wed someday.

I took this as a HUGE punch to my gut, and I am hurt. They have never explicitly expressed their opinion of him to be, but I get the picture, now.

How should I respond? Should I , on our holiday card, include that Omar, my SO, sends his best wishes and hopes their holiday is merry? Should I acknowledge this at all?

Marrin713 · December 2012

Rise above them. Sign Omar's name.

Knottie7c1f0275a5880499 · December 2012

I will definitely have him sign the family Christmas card to them. He loves my aunt, and this is going to upset him.

Another question, do I bring this up to him now, or wait until Christmas day when we open presents? He will be at work until 2PM, and the rest of us will open our gifts earlier in the morning without him. I could get away without him noticing, but the gifts are under our tree. What would you do?

thurmanpowell · December 2012

I'd sign his name (as long as he wants to do that himself).

Also, just to give them the beenfit of a doubt, is it possible that they didn't send him a gift thinking that he doesn't celebrate christmas? Perhaps the snub wasn't intentional?

Knottie7c1f0275a5880499 · December 2012

Perhaps the snub wasn't intentional, but isn't it rude to send a gift to her newphew's gf, whom she doesn't know very well, and nothing to her niece's SO, whom she's spent a lot of time with? She knows that both my SO and my brother's gf live in the same house.

Cortney1982 · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-i-can-already-see-where-my-family-is-going-with-this?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:39b684bc-cb6a-4c0c-8764-3089def977a6Post:6575b9ed-4b1f-4475-b1ec-cc5eeab25668">Re: NWR... I can already see where my family is going with this.</a>:
[QUOTE]I'd sign his name (as long as he wants to do that himself). <strong>Also, just to give them the beenfit of a doubt, is it possible that they didn't send him a gift thinking that he doesn't celebrate christmas</strong>? Perhaps the snub wasn't intentional?
Posted by thurmanpowell[/QUOTE]

This. Don't start something where there may not be anything. If you send them a card and he signs it as well, it will show them that he does indeed celebrate the holidays with you and they can learn it's better not to assume.

Knottie7c1f0275a5880499 · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-i-can-already-see-where-my-family-is-going-with-this?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:39b684bc-cb6a-4c0c-8764-3089def977a6Post:23ee3745-bb45-4757-8ae5-4fa48b4b4900">Re: NWR... I can already see where my family is going with this.</a>:
[QUOTE]I wouldn't mention it to him that he was snubbed. It will hurt his feelings and won't do anything to rectify the situation.
Posted by KindaSparkly[/QUOTE]

<div>Thanks, KindaSparkly. I won't tell him. He's a sensitive guy.</div>

Knottie7c1f0275a5880499 · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-i-can-already-see-where-my-family-is-going-with-this?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:39b684bc-cb6a-4c0c-8764-3089def977a6Post:f8ec4ee4-cee7-4b24-a9da-ab3172410086">Re: NWR... I can already see where my family is going with this.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR... I can already see where my family is going with this. : This. Don't start something where there may not be anything. If you send them a card and he signs it as well, it will show them that he does indeed celebrate the holidays with you and they can learn it's better not to assume.
Posted by Cortney1982[/QUOTE]

<div>Thanks, Cortney. I'm not a really confrontational person (at all), and just letting it go and having him sign the card is a better solution to the whole issue. </div>

AddieCake · December 2012

I think you should just have him sign the card and leave it at that.

thurmanpowell · December 2012

Sleeper, if your brother doesn't want to celebrate christmas you should absolutely forgo giving him a gift. If he wants to celebrate it secularly, get him something.

Likewise, you know your roommate and her feelings very well, AND you have shown interest in her religision. OPs Aunt (assuming of course, it was not a snub) might have just been unsure of how to proceed so didn't want to offend him.

This is a question only OP can answer, but you said your family and Omar have had disagreements, and you believe that they are due to religion, yes? Is it possible that your Aunt didn't want to seem like she was trying to convert him? Have relatives tried to convert him in the past?

As someone with an extremely multi-religious family, I do not automatically buy everyone christmas gifts. In fact, it would be offensive to some religions (jehovah's witnesses, for example).

Knottie7c1f0275a5880499 · December 2012

In Response to Re:NWR... I can already see where my family is going with this.:[QUOTE]Sleeper, if your brother doesn't want to celebrate christmas you should absolutely forgo giving him a gift. If he wants to celebrate it secularly, get him something. Likewise, you know your roommate and her feelings very well, AND you have shown interest in her religision. OPs Aunt assuming of course, it was not a snub might have just been unsure of how to proceed so didn't want to offend him. This is a question only OP can answer, but you said your family and Omar have had disagreements, and you believe that they are due to religion, yes? Is it possible that your Aunt didn't want to seem like she was trying to convert him? Have relatives tried to convert him in the past? As someone with an extremely multireligious family, I do not automatically buy everyone christmas gifts. In fact, it would be offensive to some religions jehovah's witnesses, for example. Posted by thurmanpowell[/QUOTE]

They have never tried to convert him, but they have had arguments about Biblical and quranic passage and other religious matter of that sort.

NOLAbridealmost · December 2012

I guess I can see where someone would skip a gift if they think the recipient doesn't believe in the holiday....But the holiday season has been so conscripted by America's consumer culture that I highly doubt that that's why the guy was snubbed.

Plus, when in doubt, give a gift! Everyone loves a present!

I'd sign the card for him and just try to forget it....although I DO think it was a snub.

kmmssg · December 2012

OP - I am just curious - is this the first year your aunt has sent gifts to everyone? Has she not included him in the past 4 years?

I'm with Nola - I think it was a snub but you are going to have to let it go. You can't make people give others a gift, even when it is an intentional snub. I would kill them with an overabudance of kindness (but I would also want to be a fly on the wall hoping it made them think about what they did).

lyndausvi · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-i-can-already-see-where-my-family-is-going-with-this?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:39b684bc-cb6a-4c0c-8764-3089def977a6Post:70bb3dfd-dfca-447b-b768-aabfb3f35b61">Re: NWR... I can already see where my family is going with this.</a>:
[QUOTE]OP - <strong>I am just curious - is this the first year your aunt has sent gifts to everyone? Has she not included him in the past 4 years? </strong>I'm with Nola - I think it was a snub but you are going to have to let it go. You can't make people give others a gift, even when it is an intentional snub. I would kill them with an overabudance of kindness (but I would also want to be a fly on the wall hoping it made them think about what they did).
Posted by kmmssg[/QUOTE]

<div>i'm wondering the same thing?</div><div>
</div><div> If the last 3 years they have not sent him a gift but this year they sent one for the GF it might because she celebrates xmas and he doesn't.</div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

Chloeagh · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-i-can-already-see-where-my-family-is-going-with-this?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:39b684bc-cb6a-4c0c-8764-3089def977a6Post:edcc3f59-d480-4d80-a2b3-4d15712c3da3">Re: NWR... I can already see where my family is going with this.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR... I can already see where my family is going with this. : i'm wondering the same thing? If the last 3 years they have not sent him a gift but this year they sent one for the GF it might because she celebrates xmas and he doesn't.
Posted by lyndausvi[/QUOTE]
What I'm wondering is how the aunt knows a GF of 2 months celebrates Christmas, but doesn't know a SO of 4 years would like to be included.

ETA: My stepdad's entire family is Muslim. It means a lot to them that they are included in our Christmas celebrations. No one in my family would consider not including them simply because they aren't Christian. Heck, most of my mom's family left the Church but we still exchange gifts with them.

thurmanpowell · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-i-can-already-see-where-my-family-is-going-with-this?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:39b684bc-cb6a-4c0c-8764-3089def977a6Post:0af69708-95bf-44bb-9750-67f338a6b639">Re: NWR... I can already see where my family is going with this.</a>:
<div>[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR... I can already see where my family is going with this. : <strong>What I'm wondering is how the aunt knows a GF of 2 months celebrates Christmas, but doesn't know a SO of 4 years would like to be included.</strong> ETA: My stepdad's entire family is Muslim. It means a lot to them that they are included in our Christmas celebrations. No one in my family would consider not including them simply because they aren't Christian. Heck, most of my mom's family left the Church but we still exchange gifts with them.
</div>Posted by Chloeagh[/QUOTE]

Probably because, as OP said, There have been family arguments about religion in the past. Seems like Aunt would know BF was Muslim and therefore wouldn't lean on the assumption that he was Christian.

Also, while your stepfather might like to be included, not everyone who doesn't celebrate Christmas feels the same way. As Stage said, to some people that would be offensive. The Aunt's mistake was not asking beforehand what his preference was (through her niece) not failing to get him a present.

I can tell you from my Jehovah's witness relatives that under no circumstances would they be OK receiving a Christmas gift.

Chloeagh · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-i-can-already-see-where-my-family-is-going-with-this?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:39b684bc-cb6a-4c0c-8764-3089def977a6Post:a9615475-1cce-4d87-82e9-83e24f520f62">Re: NWR... I can already see where my family is going with this.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR... I can already see where my family is going with this. : Probably because, as OP said, There have been family arguments about religion in the past. Seems like Aunt would know BF was Muslim and therefore wouldn't lean on the assumption that he was Christian. Also, while your stepfather might like to be included, not everyone who doesn't celebrate Christmas feels the same way. As Stage said, to some people that would be offensive. The Aunt's mistake was not asking beforehand what his preference was (through her niece) not failing to get him a present. I can tell you from my Jehovah's witness relatives that under no circumstances would they be OK receiving a Christmas gift.
Posted by thurmanpowell[/QUOTE]So did someone make a point of calling up aunt and saying, "Just so you know, GF if a Christain." How does aunt know this GF she's never met won't find presents offensive? If she just assumed GF was a Christain, I know a lot of people that would find that offensive.

And my point with my story about my stepdad is that if it's a random person, it's okay to not give a gift for fear of offending. But OP's SO isn't a random guy, he's a part of the family. And aunt knows that he's in a household where everyone will get a gift except him. If it was truly about avoiding offending the SO, aunt should have asked OP which circumstance would be more offensive. You found out that including your family would be more offensive, but my family found out that excluding my stepdad's family would be more offensive.

lyndausvi · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-i-can-already-see-where-my-family-is-going-with-this?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:39b684bc-cb6a-4c0c-8764-3089def977a6Post:eb5c90d3-efa0-4575-bb8e-ee11cb45f396">Re: NWR... I can already see where my family is going with this.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR... <strong>I can already see where my family is going with this. : So did someone make a point of calling up aunt and saying, "Just so you know, GF if a Christain.</strong>" How does aunt know this GF she's never met won't find presents offensive? If she just assumed GF was a Christain, I know a lot of people that would find that offensive. And my point with my story about my stepdad is that if it's a random person, it's okay to not give a gift for fear of offending. But OP's SO isn't a random guy, he's a part of the family. And aunt knows that he's in a household where everyone will get a gift except him. If it was truly about avoiding offending the SO, aunt should have asked OP which circumstance would be more offensive. You found out that including your family would be more offensive, but my family found out that excluding my stepdad's family would be more offensive.
Posted by Chloeagh[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>I don't know about your family, but my mom talks to her sisters like I talk to my sister all the time. When one of the kids starts dating the coconut telegraph starts buzzing. There doesn't need to be specific phone call on the subject, it could have come up in casual conversation. </div><div>
</div><div> For example my 14 year old niece started dating a guy. They met at their Catholic HS. It was not a far stretch to come to the conclusion he celebrates xmas even though I never specifically asked the question. Of course he might not, but I doubt someone who goes to Catholic HS is going to be offended by a gift if he happens not to celebrate.</div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>All that said, I find it very strange to received a gift from my boyfriend of 2 month's aunt regardless if I celebrate Xmas or not.

</div>

Knottie7c1f0275a5880499 · December 2012

This is the first year she bothered to include everybody in giftgiving, and that is Why I'm really irked but the fact that she included my brother's GF but not my SO. My aunt and my mom text back and forth all day, every day, so it is not an outrageous deal for my aunt to ask my mom if she should include my SO in the Christmas gift exchange. I am not trying to appear greedy or entitled, rather, I am trying to figure out if my assumptions are true. Those are that my family has intentionally are leaving him out without funding out at all in the past four years if celebrates Christmas at all, and that they don't intend to bother with him at all, by means of graciously adopting my brother's fling as something permanent. I sou s rather jealous, and perhaps I am. That lies in the fact that he has been so involved In my family, and the GF really bast been.

Knottie7c1f0275a5880499 · December 2012

Wow, my phone doesn't include paragraph spacing at all.

lyndausvi · December 2012

I completely see how you would jump to conclusions, especially given history. Since this is the first year, it could really be a case that she made an assumption that your FI doesn't celebrate xmas.

I would have your mom just ask. She might not know she hurt your feelings.

Knottie7c1f0275a5880499 · December 2012

I've come to these conclusions: 1I won't tell Omar. No need to upset him. 2I will have him, however, sign our family Christmas card to my aunt. It will let here know that he is involved with our holiday practices, and if it was intentional, then I'll kill her with kindness, instead. 3 I won't dwell on it. What's the point? I will be more wary of her regarding my relationship with Omar, however. Oh, and I talked to my mom about it, and she rationalized it by saying that families are weird.

Knottie7c1f0275a5880499 · December 2012

The only fact missing here is that she sent a gift to the girl my brother has been dating for only a few months, whereas he's been active with my family for the last four years. ETA: But does it really matter now? I've come to my conclusions based on the help of the lovely ladies here. :

arendiva · December 2012

I may be the outliyer here but I don't think the aunt needs to get your boyfriend a gift. Gift giving is always optional. I'm not sure I would even get gifts for adult nieces and nephews and I know I would never get them for their SO's. I understand that she got a gift for your brother's gf. But that's really her pierogative. Maybe on the few occassion that they met she really clicked with brother's gf. Or maybe she found a gift for brother's gf that she just thought would be perfect. Conversely you have already admitted that your FI isn't exactly tight with your family and has had religious arguments. I wouldn't buy a gift for someone I had religious arguments with and didn't like either. I get that that may seem like a snub but who buys gifts for people they don't like? On a side note you didn't indicate anywhere if your FI had purchased said aunt a gift. I'm just wondering because it weems really hypocritical to get mad that she didn't get him agift if he didn't get her one either. Just saying.

Knottie7c1f0275a5880499 · December 2012

In Response to Re:NWR... I can already see where my family is going with this.:[QUOTE]I may be the outliyer here but I don't think the aunt needs to get your boyfriend a gift. Gift giving is always optional. I'm not sure I would even get gifts for adult nieces and nephews and I know I would never get them for their SO's. I understand that she got a gift for your brother's gf. But that's really her pierogative. Maybe on the few occassion that they met she really clicked with brother's gf. Or maybe she found a gift for brother's gf that she just thought would be perfect. Conversely you have already admitted that your FI isn't exactly tight with your family and has had religious arguments. I wouldn't buy a gift for someone I had religious arguments with and didn't like either. I get that that may seem like a snub but who buys gifts for people they don't like? On a side note you didn't indicate anywhere if your FI had purchased said aunt a gift. I'm just wondering because it weems really hypocritical to get mad that she didn't get him agift if he didn't get her one either. Just saying. Posted by arendiva[/QUOTE]

I should have added that we did spend time to get both my aunt and cousin gifts. My aunt is a huge Elvis fan/groupie, and we looked for something she didn't have in her collection. Her gift was well thought out.

Kaie · December 2012

I do not like things in the back of my mind annoying me day in and day out. I would just ask her if it was intentional and see what her response is. If it was a genuine mistake or misunderstanding about religion, she will rectify it if possible. If she was trying to snub him, her response and body language (if done in person) will reveal it to you. You wouldnt have to guess. You can do it nicely. If you dont want to ask, call and tell huler that your SO and you wanted to buy wish list gifts for everyone and before you two do the shopping together you wanted to know if there was anything she wanted in particular. This would tell her that he does celebrate it if she was in doubt. But me personally, I would just ask. Regardless of her response I would dtill send her a card from both of you. However, if her response is negative, she certainly would not be invited to my wedding when the time came.

NWR... I can already see where my family is going with this.

Re: NWR... I can already see where my family is going with this.

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