Friend Officiating

brokenhallelujah · March 2010

We decided to have a local friend officiate our wedding. Neither FI or myself are religious, and we hated the idea of interviewing officiants. When I found out that this friend was already an ordained minister, I was so excited!

Now I'm trying to find out if there's anything more we need to do with the state to make sure he is recognized by the state as someone legally able to perfom a wedding. Has anyone else had a friend officiate a wedding?

I just emailed the New Hanover county register of the deeds to get some more info, but still thought I'd ask here if anyone has gone through the same thing.

Beth0882 · March 2010

I have no idea where this information came from, but we are having an old family friend who is a Methodist minister in TX come in and marry us. He told me he looked into it and found out there was nothing he had to do with the state to come in and officiate. Can't guarantee accuracy, but hope that helps a little!

NcsuPsych · March 2010

Same for us with our Aunt. She was already ordained and also DH's Godmother so we automatically went for her to marry us. She too called Wake county to see if there was anything she needed to do and they said just being ordained was all she needed.

Hopefully the email will shed light for you, but if I were to bet, I'd say you're good to go.

Best of luck!

brokenhallelujah · March 2010

Oh that is super great to hear! The less things I have to do for this wedding the better. I just didn't know if there was anything that needed to be done so the state had him on file as being an ordained minister for when the marriage license was sent. I don't know how things work in the background.

He had done weddings in D.C. and Boston and had to file some extra paperwork and be approved by someone there to do the weddings. So we thought it might be the same thing here, but sounds like he should be ready to go! Woohoo! This really made my day.

meredithl618 · March 2010

I know there has been some confusion in the past about this. I would just find out where your friend was ordained and all the info, then check it with the deeds people. NC does NOT recognize people ordained online, which could put your "marriage" in jeopardy, if that was the case.

NcsuPsych · March 2010

It doesnt? Wow, didnt know that. Glad DH's aunt wasnt done online otherwise we may have had some issues lol.

hmz819 · March 2010

I heard the same thing about being ordained online. (I looked into it for our wedding).

shigaites · March 2010

I've been wondering about this as well. Our friend in seminary school is going to be ordained in NC so I imagine we'll be fine. But if someone was ordained outside of NC, how does the state know if they were ordained online or elsewhere? I guess maybe if the marriage certificate was called into question and one was ordained by a brick and mortar institution all they would have to do is show their ordainment documentation?

brokenhallelujah · March 2010

Well, the Register of the Deeds office called me this afternoon and said that it would be fine as long as he is an ordained minister in good standing with his church. I guess that just means the chuch he was ordained with - which is the Universal Life Church - who ordains a lot of people, judging from the other boards.

I told her he was ordained in California, and she said it would be fine. She didn't say anything about online vs not. I think he was ordained online, though, so I may have to call back and ask about that. I wonder why she wouldn't have said anything about it if it tends to be an issue. He does have a certificate ordaining him with "Credentials in Ministry" so if it were questioned, he does have proof of it. Guess I'll have to do some more digging. Thanks for letting me know otherwise I would've thought we'd be perfectly fine to go.

shigaites · March 2010

I think the Universal Life Church is the one people have had issues with in NC before. Anyone can go to their website and print off an ordainment certificate for free.

brokenhallelujah · March 2010

Here is what I read online about internet-ordained ministers here in NC (this is from totaldivorce.com):

"Currently, it is legal in all 50 states for Internet-ordained ministers to officiate, with the exception of a few counties in Virginia, Pennsylvania and North Carolina."

And other places have other hurdles for them to jump through including getting registered with the state, etc. That's what he had to go through before to be legal in D.C. and Mass. So it sounds like it could varies by county - so best to check with your local Reigster of the Deeds if you have any questions. I'm going to call back tomorrow and get assurance that ordainment from the Universal Life Church should be legal here in Wilmington.

brokenhallelujah · March 2010

Here is the message I got from the Register of the Deeds this morning:

"Hi Brandy,
Please know that we get this question all the time as we issue marriage
licenses and seem to be the place that everyone calls for info regarding
ministers or officiants. And please know that all NC counties are
subject to NC Marriage Law Chapter 51- not just a few counties. Some
states do require an officiant to "register" but NC does not. Your
issue is not my authority to answer because NC Marriage Law dictates
who can officiate a wedding and I am not able to interpret the law in
favor or not. The issue of the Universal Life Church or any other
ministry representative not sure of their authority is a topic that
should be addressed between the couple, the person they choose to
perform their wedding ceremony and an attorney if they feel the need.
I wish you all the best,
Jennifer"

So, it could be a bit of a chance in case someone comes along and challenges your marriage, but we can always head down to the JP and get that sorted out easily. Just thought I'd share the info incase anyone else needs it.

jacobrooks · March 2010

I emailed the Register of Deeds in my county too, because a friend of mine who was ordained online was going to Officiate our ceremony. Here is the response I got back from the register of deeds:

North Carolina requires that the person performing the ceremony must be an ordained minister, ordained by any religious denomination authorized by his or her church or a Magistrate (the only civil officer who may perform the marriage ceremony). Online ordinations do not meet these requirements. If you have further questions, please don’t hesitate to contact our office. Thank you

brokenhallelujah · March 2010

Hmmm... weird that we get such different answers, but maybe your county is one that definitely doesn't approve of online ministers, but mine isn't (even though technically they are supposed to be following the exact same marriage laws for the state).

I think legally, the Register of Deeds cannot interperate the marriage laws, so they can't tell you 'yes or no' on the matter. They can just tell you what the law says, and if it's challenged it's the court's role to interperate. The law says:

"A valid and sufficient marriage is created by the consent of a male and female person who may lawfully marry, presently to take each other as husband and wife, freely, seriously and plainly expressed by each in the presence of the other, either:

(1) a. In the presence of an ordained minister of any religious denomination, a minister authorized by a church, or a magistrate; and

b. With the consequent declaration by the minister or magistrate that the persons are husband and wife; or

(2) In accordance with any mode of solemnization recognized by any religious denomination, or federally or State recognized Indian Nation or Tribe."

And an ordained minister from Church of Life does fit those requirements, but I guess it could be a risk if someone decides to challenge your marriage for some reason. I'm going ahead with my friend doing the ceremony, but I still find it so strange that you got a completely different response - which is probably causing all the confusion online and here on the boards about it. I would email back and ask why the online ordainment doesn't meet the state's laws & copy and paste the exact wording of the law. May not be worth fighting it unless you really want your friend to do it, though.

Beth0882 · March 2010

I did some minor research – in no means is it thorough or constitute my legal opinion – but there is a case from 1980 where the NC Supreme Court did not recognize that a minister ordained by mail from the Universal Life Church was considered an ordained minister able to perform marriage ceremonies:
“A ceremony solemnized by a Roman Catholic layman in the mail order business who bought for $10.00 a mail order certificate giving him "credentials of minister" in the Universal Life Church, Inc.-whatever that is-is not a ceremony of marriage to be recognized for purposes of a bigamy prosecution in the State of North Carolina. The evidence does not establish-rather, it negates the fact-that Chester A. Wilson was authorized under the laws of this State to perform a marriage ceremony.” --State v. Lynch, 301 N.C. 479 (1980)

It looks like the NC legislature then went and validated any prior marriages by the ULF so that people weren’t living “in sin”, but this statute only applies to marriages before 7/3/1981.

N.C. Gen. Stat§ 51‑1.1. Certain marriages performed by ministers of Universal Life Church validated.Any marriages performed by ministers of the Universal Life Church prior to July 3, 1981, are validated, unless they have been invalidated by a court of competent jurisdiction, provided that all other requirements of law have been met and the marriages would have been valid if performed by an official authorized by law to perform wedding ceremonies. (1981, c. 797.) As there are no more recent cases, and no other statutes, I would be hesitant to use someone ordained by mail/internet by the ULF, since the last case I found said it wasn't valid. But you should probably ask a family law attorney to be sure. Again, I am not a family law attorney so I don’t really know the answer.

jacobrooks · March 2010

So I called the Register of Deeds office just to clarify and they said that North Carolina does not recognize an online ordained minister. They have to be ordained through a church/religious denomination. So, looks like I am on the hunt for a new Officiant, which sucks because we are not members of a church or anything.

brokenhallelujah · March 2010

You can usually find an officiant who is not associated with any religious group and can do nondenominational or nonreligious ceremonies. Just try googling 'wedding officiant' and your area.

I'm not quite sure why online ministers (specifically ones ordained from the Universal Life Church) aren't recognized because the ULC is recognized by the US government as a church & receives the treatment of one as far as taxes, etc. go. It also does hold weekly congregations in it's original location in California.

I also find it interesting that we get such different answers from our respective Register of Deeds. Oh well. I spoke to my mom and FI about it and showed them exactly what my Register of the Deeds said to me about it & think it's good to go. We'll see... may end up taking a quick trip to the JP before hand just in case so we can still have our friend do the ceremony.

shigaites · March 2010

One option if you still want your friend to officiate is to just do a courthouse wedding a few days before the wedding. A friend of ours did this last year to save themselves any potential trouble in the future.

luinadavis · March 2010

Hello.... Just trust me when I say, I know what I am talking about here.... NC does not recognize the ULC ordinations. You can find case law on this and there is actually a NC General Statue pertaining to it. Next, this one is legal, because they make you take 17 test. www.tcolw.net Also, in Greensboro, the LEWA perfoms non demoninational ordinations at their facility for a $50 donation. Here is there website...http://www.networkthelight.net/ I hope this helps. If you have any other questions feel free to email me... luinadavis@yahoo.com

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