Snarky Brides

Am I giving my friend the right advice?

My friend has been complaining to me that her boyfriend of 4 years can't seem to commit. He tells her she's the only one he wants and wants her forever, BUT when the topic of any type of ring; promise or engagement, comes up it sends him back pedalling. When the topic comes up he tells her he's scared of what others (specifically family) will think because his parents had a bad divorce when he was a child. He uses the divorce as an excuse to not get married because it may happen to them. He also doesn't want to give her a ring because he doesn't know what would happen to it if they break up. She says if she doesn't get a ring by the time she's 30, she'll simply be mad. Right now she's 27.

I see all of this as his way of saying he really doesn't want to be with her for life, but can't bring himself to break up with her. I've been honest with my opinions. I've asked her what happens if he can't commit and she said he'd end up alone. I don't want to see my friend waste time being unhappy with a man that can't commit to her and told her that the point of a relationship is to decide if you want a future together and if you can't do that, they're both wasting their time. All I can really tell her is to communicate with him, which she's scared of doing as she might hurt his feelings, and move on if he doesn't get it. Is that sound advice?

Re: Am I giving my friend the right advice?

  • If he has said marriage is off the table, then she should move on.

    However, just because they have been together 4 years doesnt mean much.  4 Years ago she was 23.  If he is the same age, I dont know that marriage is at the top of most guys list in their early and mid 20's.  And I know a lot of guys who didnt think about marriage till they were in their 30's.

    Sounds like they need to talk about their expectations and decide if they are on the same plan for the future.
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  • Personally, I wouldn't date someone in the first place that didn't see it going in the same direction as me.  Like, if my FI didn't want to get married when we started dating, we wouldn't have because marriage is something that I want.  Or kids, if he didn't want kids I wouldn't have started to date him since I want kids.  I don't think anyone should be in a relationship if they don't like where it is going (or not going.)  that is just me. I think your advice is just fine.  That's all it is, advice.  She doesn't have to take it, but you can sure try to help her as best you can.
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  • SachaBeeSachaBee member
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    edited August 2012
    If she is "scared" to communicate her feelings to him then I'm not sure where their relationship is heading anyway. If you are with someone for four years you should be able to communicate on even the hardest and most emotional of topics. It takes a while to get there, yeah, but married couples need to be able to talk through those things. I think you have given pretty sound advice overall.

    One question, how old is he? 27 is a normal time to be thinking about, but still unsure on, marriage. If he is much older than 30 I would question it, and if he is younger than maybe 25 I would give it another year maybe. (Maybe I'm totally off base and it absolutely depends on the person.)

    Maybe instead of pestering about marriage, they should talk about other "future issues". Like how they see their careers developing, how they want to handle finances, how would they want to raise kids, where are places they could see themselves living?? That way they can work through whether they are compatible without getting too emotional.

    Maybe she could ask (if she can ever get past the communication issue) if there's something besides the divorce holding him back. Does he want to travel the world before he settles down? Is he worried that he'll want to change careers and having a family would keep him from moving for a job or promotion?

    It sounds like there could be a lot of things going on. If marriage is really important to her, it just sounds like this guy might not go for it. But if she could see herself happily being with someone without the ring and if he seems like he's willing to commit to the relationship (just not a marriage)... maybe they could work it out. They REALLY need to talk about it though! There is only so much you can do as a friend!

    Edit to say I like other posters' advice too. Such a hard situation for you & your friend.
  • Thank you all for the advice. A couple of you thought of things I hadn't, which I may also bring up to her. I told her I want her to be happy and if he does that for her, it's great, but if he doesn't I'd hate to see her get stuck in a dead end relationship and be even more unhappy later. She hasn't really talked to me since.

    He is 24, I believe. She says they've talked about getting married and having a family together but when it comes to the thought of ever getting a ring, he freaks out and basically takes back everything he said about marriage/family. He never discusses anything other than how horrible his parents' relationship turned out and how they both hated their lives when she asks what makes him feel sour about marriage. Other future stuff, I'm not sure about.

    The other part that gets me, is that he's so worried about what others would think if they were to be engaged. I know his mom tells him there are other fish in the sea, all while telling him how great my friend is for him. I guess that could be a big factor.
  • Yeah that sounds like a tough MIL in any case. My mom does that and it drives me crazy because I am NOT questioning being with fi at all. And then she's all, "well it doesn't mean we don't like HIM..." gah.

    I think you are doing all you can do right now. Try to stay in touch with her. I know how frustrating this situation must be.

    Maybe she should stop asking for a ring and just ask for a commitment?? You've mentioned the ring in both of your posts so it seems significant. Maybe there is something so symbolic about *the ring* for one or both of them that they can't look past it to the actual relationship.
  • Dude, he is 24.  Tell her to lay off.

    And yeah yeah, i know some guys are ready at 24, but many of them are not.  If she keeps pushing, she will push him away.
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  • Oh yeah Blue, I missed that. That would mean he was only 20 when they started dating! No surprise he wasn't thinking marriage!

    However I do think they should be able to at least discuss their future and emotions after 4 years, but stop pressuring for a ring. Just, "where do you see yourself living" type of thing so she can figure out if she wants to even stick around until he's ready...
  • I know very few married 24 year olds...people are still figuring themselves out. Are they in school, looking for work/just starting careers? guys usually seem to want some sort of stability or foundation in their own life before taking on the responsibility of marriage, because it really is a legal responsibility, not jsut a warm fuzzy feeling of "i want to hang out with you all the time". that can be super scary. I never seriously thought about marriage until I was 26 myself, what with so many life changes going on in my 20s...

    in the end she has to make the decision herself, and she will...best just to drop it, not even worry about her problems until she needs an ear
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_am-i-giving-my-friend-the-right-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:a9fee68f-d454-40ad-b47b-7f3ade9ac366Post:ab8d00cc-daf3-4bae-853f-24f9619e5d54">Re: Am I giving my friend the right advice?</a>:
    [QUOTE]Dude, he is 24.  Tell her to lay off. And yeah yeah, i know some guys are ready at 24, but many of them are not.  If she keeps pushing, she will push him away.
    Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

    I was going to say something similar, but I totally agree with this!
    Women are so much more rushed to get married compared to guys. She should deffinately stop talking about it for a long while and maybe he'll come around. If you nag at someone for so long about something, they won't be interested in it.
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  • What i think she needs to ask is ifhe wants to spend the rest of his life with her, no speak of marriage, weddings or rings. They should be able to discuss those things, especially after four years. I know I come from a family with a terrible, TERRIBLE divorce, and the thought of forever and a day commitment in front of the world scares me! Every time other people bring up marriage, I feel the need to run away.

    Does he know she wants a ring in 3 years? She should communicate that to him!
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  • He's young, so part of me wants to cut him some slack, but I was in a 5 1/2 year relationship where the guy told me that we were going to get married one day, told his parents, my parents, etc. but wouldn't actually commit.  He broke up with me and revealed that he'd never wanted marriage or children, but he just assumed that some day he would start wanting those things.  I might have let him string me on another couple of years if he hadn't finally said something.

    Anyway, she should be careful.  It's very easy to say that you want to spend the rest of your life with someone when you will never have to prove it; and guys will string along because they like the relationship that they have NOW.  So he's happy with how things are and she's not.  Either they find a way for both of them to be happy or they break up.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_am-i-giving-my-friend-the-right-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:a9fee68f-d454-40ad-b47b-7f3ade9ac366Post:ce55401e-9071-424d-baf8-ccb6f961af6c">Re: Am I giving my friend the right advice?</a>:
    [QUOTE]He's young, so part of me wants to cut him some slack, but I was in a 5 1/2 year relationship where the guy told me that we were going to get married one day, told his parents, my parents, etc. but wouldn't actually commit.  He broke up with me and revealed that he'd never wanted marriage or children, but he just assumed that some day he would start wanting those things.  I might have let him string me on another couple of years if he hadn't finally said something. Anyway, she should be careful.  It's very easy to say that you want to spend the rest of your life with someone when you will never have to prove it; and guys will string along because they like the relationship that they have NOW.  So he's happy with how things are and she's not.  Either they find a way for both of them to be happy or they break up.
    Posted by stantokm[/QUOTE]

    Every relationship is different! I was with a guy for 8 years and he asked me to marry him AFTER I broke up with him. Errrr....NO...cause I dumped your dumb bum. lol
    I dated/lived with my now FI for 5 years and he popped the question in July. Again...men are different. They aren't super eager like we are to get married. We obsessivly watch marriage shows like Say Yes to the Dress (Ummm...at least I do..lol) and it makes us wanna get married right away!! She needs to stop talking about it for awhile and see what happens. Men hate being nagged about it. I nagged and nagged my FI (for so long....poor guy) for us to get married. Then one day it clicked that I should shut my mouth and not meantion it at all. 4 months later he put a ring on it! Nuff said!
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  • I can see how divorce might be a factor.

    My parents divorced after 23 years, one of my brothers has been married/divorced 3x and the other has been married twice (still married to #2).  I had a lousy family track record to look back on.

    FI and I have been together for 11.5 years (getting married this October); we didn't even get engaged until after 8 years.  I will be just shy of my 39th birthday when it happens.

    My point being - he may not be ready for marriage for a long time to come.  She needs to have discussions about the future, not necessarily marriage.  FI and I knew we were gonig to get married 6 months into the relationship, but we (in life) weren't in the right place to do it 11 years ago.

    Continue to be a friend, reach out to her and let her know that you didn't mean to be hurtful (she may have taken it that way since you mention she hasn't spoken in awhile) and you're there for her; but she needs to talk to him.   I had a friend who wasted (and yes, in this case it was a waste) 5 years trying to get the wrong guy to commit; she was devastated when it didn't happen.  Now she is with the right guy and getting married next May.

     

  • I haven't read through the responses, but I wanted to comment on the divorce issue. H was scared to get married, his parents had a bad divorce (cheating involved) when he was in high school and then there were other marriages and things were a mess for awhile. He was afraid we would go through the same things his parents did. What he needed was reassurance that we could learn from their mistakes and that we had to know we would always need to work at this. My parents are divorced too so I understood where he was coming from.

    Though, at 24, he may still need some time to get himself settled.
  • It could be that he just doesn't feel stable enough in his life (especially with his experience with his parents and divorce) to look at marriage.  A friend of mine has been dating his girlfriend forever.  You can just tell looking at them that they're a permanent couple but he hasn't put a ring on it yet because he doesn't have a full-time job so he doesn't feel he can support her.  This is something super important to him even though she's been "hinting" about getting hitched for awhile now.  I'm not saying this is your friend's situation, but at 24, most guys aren't thinking marriage for one reason or another.
  • edited August 2012
    Thank you all for the advice. I understand 24 is young. We did finally talk, and she knows I wasn't trying to hurt her or anything like that. I've given her multiple different sides to the situation, just so she sees more than her perspective. She says she knows one day it will happen, just not right now. She mentioned that she finally realized her relationship is not in the same place as mine and my FI's relationship.

    I do understand the divorce thing really well (my dad's been divorced twice, my mom 3x and my FI family had an even worse situation) but my friend has always been a bit naive to those things. Her parents have been together forever, so in her personal life she hasn't seen/been affected by divorce.
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