Second Weddings

Why answer at all?

I am starting a new post to try to create a discussion about the topic without the affiliation with any one question. 

In recent posts, the comment has been made that people who disagree with what the writer proposes should just keep their mouth (keyboard) shut.  Or that if you answer the question, you MUST care about what the writer ends up doing.  As you can probably already guess, I don't support either of those positions. 

If the writer who asks, "I am going to release live toads at the end of our ceremony, what do you think?" is asking only for validation, they aren't likely to get it anywhere.  Not on the Knot, not at a cocktail party, not in a social circle.  They are most likely asking because they have some misgivings, or uneasiness about the idea.  If they are wise, they will listen and weigh all the responses they get, If someone says, "Oh my, that is incredible animal cruelty, you should be ashamed of yourself, do you have any idea what toads do for the ecological circle?"  versus, "Ew, ick!" the writer takes away different perspectives and different levels of passion about the topic.  They may decide that the ecological circle, while intellectually a topic of concern, is not pertinent to their little wedding ceremony, and that 30 toads aren't going to change the path of the planet.  On the other hand, the ick response may make them think of a beloved aunt who has a rather strong response to amphibians.  

If every poster stuck to the "Thumper" rule, and said nothing in response, what good would it do the writer?  Yes, maybe her ego would remain unbruised, her self would remain un-affronted.  And her guests would endure the plague of toads she so carefully designed.  And maybe great Aunt Ellie would suffer a panic attack, and make the event good fodder for family stories for years to come. 

And if instead the posters decided to point out the negative sides of the jumping celebration of love, and the writer took the opportunity to defend her position and perhaps a couple of other amphibian-ophiles jumped onboard to support her, so the posters further described their position - does that really mean they care? I doubt it does.  They may feel strongly in their position.  They may hope to persuade the writer from her position.  They may have emotional reaction to the discussion.  But in the big picture, caring is a pretty strong word, and not likely the correct descriptor. 

You are all very lovely people, but since other than a couple of long time posters, I don't actually know you, thus I really don't care about you, beyond the human compassion I feel towards the bulk of the species.  If posters only posted to people they really cared about, or on issues they really cared about, this wouldn't be a message board, it would be a group of friends sharing thier lives, like facebook.  Oh...wait, not quite that.  Innocent

So - if you think posters shouldn't disagree with the writer- do you think that the only purpose of the board is to nod our heads for whatever idea the writer proposes?

If you think that posting indicates you care about the topic, will I be the only poster on this thread?

Do you think disagreement is bad? 

What do you think? ~Donna

Re: Why answer at all?

  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_why-answer-at-all?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:35Discussion:581cdb82-0d1a-47ca-a022-45036e8b1cc0Post:1f5fb0a3-e22b-4cb6-a4b2-a6bbf53217e2">Why answer at all?</a>:
    [QUOTE]  So - if you think posters shouldn't disagree with the writer- do you think that the only purpose of the board is to nod our heads for whatever idea the writer proposes? If you think that posting indicates you care about the topic, will I be the only poster on this thread? Do you think disagreement is bad?  What do you think? ~Donna
    Posted by right1thistime[/QUOTE]

    <div>I believe that an open discussion is a great thing.  There are many times I've changed my opinion about something because another person made a valid point that got me to thinking.  Disagreement isn't a bad thing until someone decides to get witchy about it.  A good debate is one where all parties involved walk away either having learned something new or, if they don't end the debate agreeing (or agreeing to disagree), they walk away cordially.  We are supposed to be adults after all.</div><div>
    </div><div>I have posted questions on some different boards and have received the "that's not a very good idea" response.  I read what others wrote about it, took it into consideration and made my choice.  I always appreciate getting feedback but in the end I am the one that has to make the final decision and live with it.  Valid arguments will convince me.  Snarky behavior makes me wonder whether it's a situation of misery loves company.
    </div><div>
    </div><div>I think the majority of the people on TK are well meaning.  Some can be brutally honest which is definitely not a bad thing.  But I have also seen some regulars who seem to enjoy shredding anything they have deemed not appropriate.</div>
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  • I'm usually late to the party. Sometimes I really feel like someone needs the majority, and I will speak up my stance. Usually, my opinion mimics one already listed - no reason to rinse and repeat. I have changed things based on responses. Not every time - but there have been items my brain did not consider prior to posting. I appreciate different sides - often there are more than two - and do weigh them for me and my circumstance.
    ~~Mendi~~ ...Everyone has their price; mine's chocolate Photobucket
  • I agree Donna -- I don't really "care", but I think it's helpful for people to see different sides of the argument.   

    I try very hard to make all of my responses respectful and thoughtful, as I find that it advances my argument.  Coming off as rude and b*tchy rarely wins people over:-)    I think that MOST long-time TK posters are like me.  Most of us try to be helpful, though honest, present our argument, then forget about it.   Of course, there are some people who get "offended" and find respectful honestly to be "rude."    They get defensive about their toad-release ceremony, and shut down to other people's opinions.   Fine.   That's their problem.

    But do I "care" if people have disaster-weddings?  No.  Even if my friends have disaster-weddings, I don't really care, because I'm just not that invested in it.    I have other, more important, things in my life to worry about than someone else's toad-release:-)
    DSC_9275
  • All of this. Donna hits it right on the head again. So many people come to these boards looking for validation and nothing more. My take on it is this: if you're looking for someone to tell you something is okay, that means it probably isn't.

    I've had people disagree with me, I've tried to explain myself, but at the end of the day we're all going to do what we want to do. I'm not going to lose sleep over the people who think it's okay to have multiple weddings, cash bars, forcing their bridesmaids to have the same hairstyle/nose ring/underwear, or to serve nothing but apples and hay at a theme wedding. It's really none of my business, but if you ask me whether these are good ideas or not, expect an answer.
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  • Donna thank you for your post.  

    This board seems to receive a lot of flack from those who want do-overs, they come here thinking we're going to validate their PPD when in fact we're not.

    Retread put it nicely to the last person who wanted to have her PPD validated, this board is here for Second Time (or more) Brides who might be struggling with can they have the wedding they want, is it allowed? Is it too much to want the white gown and the church even though that is what they had the first time?  Or is it too little to want an intimate private ceremony? 

    Those are ligit questions for this board, but those who are already married and want a do-over (sometimes within months of the day) tend to rain all over those who are thinking that marriage this time may work for them and are doubting how to go about the ceremony and such. 

    I have appreciated the different points of view about certain aspects of planning a wedding, and there were a few things we changed based on advice given here.  This board (and a great seamstress) saved my "won" wedding gown from a fiery death. 

    A word to those who read this and are planning somethng that their immediate friends and family question, we may side with them and not validate your wants.  That doesn't mean we're rude or hurtful it just means we're being honest about our reaction to what you wrote.  That also means that those from other boards who think you are entitled to do whatever you want without regard shouldn't come here and tell us how nasty we're being to you.  

    So if releasiing toads at the end of your ceremony is something  you truly desire, and you want to share the idea great; if  you are looking for validation expect opinions that may be different than your own or others where you have posed the idea before.  
  • First of all, I love your analogy. I'm sure we all have our own little guilty pleasure plague of toads.

    I agree most of us (myself included) don't care what other people do. Where I get persnickety is when people seem to gang up on posters and declare what IS and IS NOT ok. There a phrase used on the baby name board of Thebump that I LOVE. It's the acronym NMS for not my style. That very politely says 'I would NEVER do what you're doing and will tell you so, but I'm not judging you and your toad plague'. On TK I've witnessed a lot more vibe of 'you are ridiculous and your wedding is INAPPROPRIATE and rude and guests will hate you if you ....'. I think there should be 10,000 times more NMS and the real thrashings saved for truly horrifying suggestions where you actually do fear for the safety of the guests. 

    The wedding I want is NMS for 99% of TK. That's fine. I'm enjoying reading/posting anyway. I don't tell you your weddings are stupid, but I get really cranky when you tell people who aren't like you that their weddings are.


  • Etiquette Hell is funny...and sad at the same time. 

    But I think that sometimes you might know that your close family isn't going to object.  I am one of the youngest of 21 first cousins.  After going to endless weddings of theirs with cash bar, if I had hosted a cash bar, I am pretty sure none of them would have batted an eye.  (My first wedding had a cash bar as well.)  But at my second wedding, I had professional colleagues, and DH's family & professional colleagues as well.  That's not the same as my gigantic first wedding with all my cousins and my equally broke friends.  And now that my cousins have grown up, aren't poor students or young families just starting out and they travel in different social circles as well, they might look differently on a cash bar, too.  But I didn't invite them, anyway. Tongue out  So unless you are inviting JUST your family & friends, and none of your Fi's, it's pretty hard to know for sure that they'll be fine with it.  Many men (not all) are clueless about the whole etiquette thing, and would assure you that their family will be fine with it, and there you'll be - on Etiquette Hell.  ~Donna
  • edited November 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_why-answer-at-all?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:35Discussion:581cdb82-0d1a-47ca-a022-45036e8b1cc0Post:424ac967-0756-4c6a-8971-8437dca2b15a">Re: Why answer at all?</a>:
    [QUOTE]First of all, I love your analogy. I'm sure we all have our own little guilty pleasure plague of toads. I agree most of us (myself included) don't care what other people do. Where I get persnickety is when people seem to gang up on posters and declare what IS and IS NOT ok. There a phrase used on the baby name board of Thebump that I LOVE. It's the acronym NMS for not my style. That very politely says 'I would NEVER do what you're doing and will tell you so, but I'm not judging you and your toad plague'. On TK I've witnessed a lot more vibe of 'you are ridiculous and your wedding is INAPPROPRIATE and rude and guests will hate you if you ....'. I think there should be 10,000 times more NMS and the real thrashings saved for truly horrifying suggestions where you actually do fear for the safety of the guests.  The wedding I want is NMS for 99% of TK. That's fine. I'm enjoying reading/posting anyway. I don't tell you your weddings are stupid, but I get really cranky when you tell people who aren't like you that their weddings are.
    Posted by anssett[/QUOTE]
    I don't want you to think I am singling you out.  I think you and I see things pretty differently, and as far as I am concerned, that's ok.  What you write has a lot of validity.  In fact I agreed with it pretty thoroughly initially.  Then I gave it a bit more thought.  So I guess I disagree-- somewhat. 
    NMS is actually a good answer, most of the time.  On the Bump - where people are sharing their baby names, birth plans, parenting advice, nursery decor- that is all stuff that people are guaranteed to have different opinions about.  Different taste, different visions, etc.  I think it's pretty likely that if someone said they were planning on delivering their child in the midst of the local public library, the response would be stronger than NMS. 

    I think that just like in real life- sometimes the response to a particular poster on ALL these boards (maybe some are exempt, but certainly I've seen it in on all the international boards in the 8 years I have been posting) is not just a response to <em>the poster </em>and/or <em>the question</em> but ends up being somewhat archetypical.  Ask a cash bar question anywhere, and the RUDE! UNACCEPTABLE! and TACKY!  responses will fly even if you are stripper and holding the wedding at your club where the law requires drinks to be purchased.  Ask the Can I kick my MOH out? question, and even if she murdered your parents, slept with your Fi and bombed a federal building you will have at least one respondent tell you that you are Bridezilla.  SW and a few other boards have the knee jerk response to the vow renewal question.  I think it's just plain dumb net intelligence to pop onto a board, not read a line of who or what is previously written, and then start asking your questions.  Add to that that we all have our pet peeves (type "isle" I dare you!  and not just wedding related - I read a post on another board about people who pronounce it EXpresso), and hot button issues, and you may slam head on into a thrashing you hadn't planned on.  The internet isn't for sissies. 

    Overall, I don't disagree that the world could be a nicer place. ~Donna
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_why-answer-at-all?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:35Discussion:581cdb82-0d1a-47ca-a022-45036e8b1cc0Post:3dd4adcb-392a-4efc-a763-e77b77df10fa">Re: Why answer at all?</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why answer at all? : I don't want you to think I am singling you out.  I think you and I see things pretty differently, and as far as I am concerned, that's ok.  What you write has a lot of validity.  In fact I agreed with it pretty thoroughly initially.  Then I gave it a bit more thought.  So I guess I disagree-- somewhat.  NMS is actually a good answer, most of the time.  On the Bump - where people are sharing their baby names, birth plans, parenting advice, nursery decor- that is all stuff that people are guaranteed to have different opinions about.  Different taste, different visions, etc.  I think it's pretty likely that if someone said they were planning on delivering their child in the midst of the local public library, the response would be stronger than NMS.  I think that just like in real life- sometimes the response to a particular poster on ALL these boards (maybe some are exempt, but certainly I've seen it in on all the international boards in the 8 years I have been posting) is not just a response to the poster and/or the question but ends up being somewhat archetypical.  Ask a cash bar question anywhere, and the RUDE! UNACCEPTABLE! and TACKY!  responses will fly even if you are stripper and holding the wedding at your club where the law requires drinks to be purchased.  Ask the Can I kick my MOH out? question, and even if she murdered your parents, slept with your Fi and bombed a federal building you will have at least one respondent tell you that you are Bridezilla.  SW and a few other boards have the knee jerk response to the vow renewal question.  I think it's just plain dumb net intelligence to pop onto a board, not read a line of who or what is previously written, and then start asking your questions.  Add to that that we all have our pet peeves (type "isle" I dare you!  and not just wedding related - I read a post on another board about people who pronounce it EXpresso), and hot button issues, and you may slam head on into a thrashing you hadn't planned on.  The internet isn't for sissies.  Overall, I don't disagree that the world could be a nicer place. ~Donna
    Posted by right1thistime[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>I'm not offended at all. Everyone is allowed their opinion, and if they express it politely I'm almost always willing to listen. </div><div>
    </div><div>There is certainly a spectrum of 'oh no, don't do that'. The gentle side is NMS. The horrified side is delivering babies in public libraries (or perhaps live animal sacrifice at the altar?). Not everything is the end of the world just because you (read anyone) don't agree with it. I wish people had a better sense of that spectrum and expressing it accordingly (particularly on TK). I, too, am annoyed by people who post questions that are regularly answered because they assume their situation is unique. That's ridiculous and bad research. </div><div>
    </div><div>One pattern I've notice with myself on these boards is hearing people who sound like they want to break out of the industry mold of a wedding, but they're scared. They don't have the self confidence to do what would really make them happy and feel special. When I see posts like that I get very encouraging and supportive. I feel like the general vibe of TK is still to tell these people to get back into the mold and that upsets me.

    </div>
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_why-answer-at-all?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:35Discussion:581cdb82-0d1a-47ca-a022-45036e8b1cc0Post:a6b2e287-0ebd-459b-aa71-f530ddbb2f78">Re: Why answer at all?</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why answer at all? : I'm not offended at all. Everyone is allowed their opinion, and if they express it politely I'm almost always willing to listen.  There is certainly a spectrum of 'oh no, don't do that'. The gentle side is NMS. The horrified side is delivering babies in public libraries (or perhaps live animal sacrifice at the altar?). Not everything is the end of the world just because you (read anyone) don't agree with it. I wish people had a better sense of that spectrum and expressing it accordingly (particularly on TK). I, too, am annoyed by people who post questions that are regularly answered because they assume their situation is unique. That's ridiculous and bad research.  One pattern I've notice with myself on these boards is hearing people who sound like they want to break out of the industry mold of a wedding, but they're scared. They don't have the self confidence to do what would really make them happy and feel special. When I see posts like that I get very encouraging and supportive. I<strong> feel like the general vibe of TK is still to tell these people to get back into the mold and that upsets me</strong>.
    Posted by anssett[/QUOTE]

    <div>I completely disagree.   The wedding industry is about one think -- making money.  The wedding industry will suggest all types of cutesy things that are HORRIBLE etiquette because they want YOUR MONEY and don't give a d*mn about being polite to your guests.   Most TK posters (at least those of us who have been around a while) won't hesitate to tell people not to listen to the wedding industry!</div><div>
    </div><div>However, some things are done over and over and over, not because they are boring, but because it's the most polite thing to do.  Yes, having a chair for every person at the wedding might seem boring and overdone, but it's rude not to have seating, so we will point out EVERY TIME that chairs (or some substitute) should be provided.    </div>
    DSC_9275

  • sorry to threadjack but Avion, congrats on baby!
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_why-answer-at-all?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:35Discussion:581cdb82-0d1a-47ca-a022-45036e8b1cc0Post:fcac7339-7310-4a0f-af96-c0e1163cc929">Re: Why answer at all?</a>:
    [QUOTE]sorry to threadjack but Avion, congrats on baby!
    Posted by Marrin713[/QUOTE]

    <div>Thanks!  We're super-excited:-)</div>
    DSC_9275
  • Best thread jack news EVER!  Congrats!!
  • Congrats Avion!
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  • Oh have to weigh in again, and late again, Congratulations, Avion!
    ~~Mendi~~ ...Everyone has their price; mine's chocolate Photobucket
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_why-answer-at-all?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:35Discussion:581cdb82-0d1a-47ca-a022-45036e8b1cc0Post:fcac7339-7310-4a0f-af96-c0e1163cc929">Re: Why answer at all?</a>:
    [QUOTE]sorry to threadjack but Avion, congrats on baby!
    Posted by Marrin713[/QUOTE]

    Shoot!  I've been out of town, just back from New Orleans and missed the news.  I am VERY happy for you.  Congratulations!!!  ((((HUGS))))
  • Congratulations Avion!!! ((hug))
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