Wedding Party

Brooke...help the stupid wannabe law student

Fail.

I've obtained two letters of recommendation from my boss and another from a professor I've worked with throughout college. You know the little waiver thing about not seeing it? Well, I took the first one to my boss and asked her if she wanted me to sign it and she said no because she was going to show me the letter anyway and it made no difference to her.

Then I took the second form to my prof and SHE said I should sign it because it looks better that way. My boss has already mailed hers in. Now I'm panicking. A lot. I think it's going to look really weird to have 2 different waivers, like I don't trust my boss or something. It's not at all what I intended I just didn't think the waiver thing was necessary unless the person writing the letter asked for you to sign it. I mean...I don't want to see them anyway

Crap. I should have just signed the damn thing.

Do you think I could call LSAC and somehow send in another waiver or something? Please help me... *whimper*
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Re: Brooke...help the stupid wannabe law student

  • Hmmmm...

    Do you have pre-law advisors at your school?  This is a question best posed to them.  Different schools will treat waivers differently.  If I remember correctly from my LOR experience, I was told to sign the waiver even if your recommender was going to show you the letter anyway to give the impression that you had nothing to hide.  However, that info is about 5 years old and things could really change.  So long story short, see what your prelaw advisor has to say.  At the very least a general grad school advisor should be able to help you out.

    I will say this: Schools will look at your LORs, but almost always after they've looked at your numbers (LSAT and GPA) and decided they want you.  So I don't see it as necessarily being a dealbreaker.  

    Hope that helps.  Keep me posted on what your advisor says!
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  • My prof is a grad school advisor and she told me that usually people sign them for the "nothing to hide" thing. I think I'll just leave it as is. They're not mandatory for the schools I'm applying for and I think if I make a big deal about it, that might make it worse.

    Thanks, Brooke. =)
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  • So I totally don't want to rain on your dreams, but there is a lot of truth to this article, and I think it's worth considering: http://www.slate.com/id/2272621/
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  • tldhtldh member
    First Comment
    edited October 2010
    Ditto Brooke.

    In the past couple of years, firms have been laying off entire classes of attorneys and not doing any type of summer internships.  It's going to be like this until the baby boomers retire.  We are up against a grey ceiling and if law follows every other business, the next generation (Gen X) will be doing the work that was done by three boomers.  That's not going to leave a lot for the generation that follows us.

    Have you thought about any other profession?  I was in journalism (I know, not a good profession right now either) and had managed to get into a TV news station as a production assistant before I went to law school.  What made me give up my dream of being a TV news reporter for law is another story for another time.
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  • I saw that article this morning and thought of you guys.  :/
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  • Here's the rosier picture of the situation, from arguably the most widely-read law blog, which I personally disagree with but it does make some points that are also worth considering: http://abovethelaw.com/2010/07/in-defense-of-going-to-law-school/
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  • There really does need to be a limit for law school admissions though.  Too many people go because they don't know what else to do with their lives and they think it's big money.
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  • At one point, it was a safe bet.  Not anymore.  Not by a long shot.  Hopefully in 3-4 years it'll be a different picture, but there's such a backlog of experienced attorneys it's hard to break in to an entry-level position :(
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  • I'm with brooke and the others saying 1) this isn't a big deal about your letters and 2) think long and hard about whether you really want to be a lawyer. I'm also class of '11 and while I've got a job, my fiance is having a really, really hard time. Talk to attorneys in the market that you want to work in. I am very lucky because I was able to get a scholarship, but I would be freaking out if I was $100k in debt in this market. 
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  • bablingbrookebablingbrooke member
    5 Love Its Combo Breaker First Comment
    edited October 2010
    Gah!  That was so not my goal!

    I just want you to make an informed decision.  People go to law school all. the. time. without knowing what they want to do with it, thinking it will open 100 doors, and thinking it automatically leads to a six-figure salary.  About 5 years ago, there was quite a bit of truth to that.  But its' not anymore.  However, with the bad economy, people are running to it as a safe harbor and it's really anything but.

    Going to law school so you can start your own company is a bit of a gamble.  Law school teaches you very little about running your own business, besides the general law of corporations and the business/ethics of running your own firm [ETA: and tax].  And while you do learn contracts, you also learn about them in business school.  If you want to run your own business, an MBA program (many of which you can take while working) may be your best bet; DH has an MBA and actually tutored me when I took corps since he basically took the class when he was getting the MBA.  With regard to IP, sometimes it can be better to retain outside counsel to work out the kinks in contracts, particularly since the old adage of "anyone who represents himself has a fool for an attorney" is true more often than not :)

    What does your grad advisor have to say about how law school fits in with your long-term goals?  

    FYI: In class so won't be responding as quickly as I'd like tonight :(
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  • Brooke's motive was the same as mine.  I know I went to law school with people who didn't really have a good reason to be there and I'm sure she's still in classes with these people.

    If you are planning on running your own company, you won't have time to do the legal work for it - it really is a full time job which is why firms have managing partners who either have a reduced caseload or no caseload at all.  Law school will not prepare you to run a company.  My school had a joint JD/MBA program that you could do if you wanted to go into business law.

    Also, to be an IP attorney, you need to have a background in engineering or natural science like chemistry or biology. 
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  • bablingbrookebablingbrooke member
    5 Love Its Combo Breaker First Comment
    edited October 2010
    Tricia is so right about IP--I go to an IP-magnet school and the only people IP firms are hiring are people who have technical backgrounds.  Totally forgot to mention that whole ball of wax.  You CAN go into IP law, you just shouldn't expect to get a lot of jobs from it.  Most require that you sit/be eligible for the patent bar, and you need a science or technical degree for that.

    And yes, I go to school with a lot of people who have no business being here.  And they've realized it.  And they want out.  Many a beer has been shared over "why did I come here" moaning and groaning.
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  • Well my actual music industry advisor is a useless person (don't even get me started). A music industry prof told me that my plans to go to law school were probably sound because a bachelor's degree is a "high school degree" nowadays. My clarinet professor (music major thing) has been the most helpful with grad school applications and such. I didn't do a prelaw program because our school doesn't really have one to speak of and I didn't think about law until nearly the end of my college career. I'm thinking I should visit my school of choice, tell them my plans, and see what they say about it.

    I have thought about an MBA. I was actually considering doing a joint degree (MBA/JD) through the university that I want to go to, but I wasn't sure if an MBA was a good idea. From what you're describing, though, it might be the best option. Though I've noticed most MBA programs want you to have some work experience first (makes sense) so I would probably wait a couple years.

    And Brooke, I'm glad you're telling me these things. I'm upset about the not so bright outlook right now, but I want to know the good and the bad so I don't go wandering into something like an idiot. I'm going to keep doing my research, praying about this, and just be as smart as possible about the next steps in my life.

    As your H has an MBA could you ask him what he would recommend for me?
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  • I think you need to talk to a pre-law advisor specifically, rather than a prof from the music department.  Given what I know as a 3L, I can tell you that he really doesn't seem to know what he's talking about here.  He's feeding you the line of "you can do anything with a law degree" but for what you want to do, I'm not sure it will necessarily help you get there.  It's such an expensive and time-consuming proposition that I would want to hear more from people who are in the legal industry.  See if your school's alumni program has anyone in the industry w/ a law degree.  See if the industry even employs attorneys!

    I will definitely ask DH about whether an MBA would be beneficial for what you want to do.  From where I'm standing, I can tell you that I think it's a lot more useful to get an MBA than a JD if you want to start a business.  Hands down.
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  • I am talking to someone in the Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces right now about my plans. He's going over my resumes and is going to speak to the Dean of Admissions he knows at my university of choice. He's been really helpful so far. I think I'll have a candid talk with him about what would be my best options right now.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_brookehelp-stupid-wannabe-law-student?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:8c797e35-02aa-45a6-ab73-1b8b168bf530Post:ea9d431a-4d08-44c7-aa2d-d62d1e30d00e">Re: Brooke...help the stupid wannabe law student</a>:
    [QUOTE]Brooke's motive was the same as mine.  I know I went to law school with people who didn't really have a good reason to be there and I'm sure she's still in classes with these people. If you are planning on running your own company, you won't have time to do the legal work for it - it really is a full time job which is why firms have managing partners who either have a reduced caseload or no caseload at all.  Law school will not prepare you to run a company.  My school had a joint JD/MBA program that you could do if you wanted to go into business law. Also, to be an IP attorney, you need to have a background in engineering or natural science like chemistry or biology. 
    Posted by tldh[/QUOTE]

    Oh my god, I'm so glad you told me that. =/ I certainly do not have a degree in that...ugh...
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  • tldhtldh member
    First Comment
    edited October 2010
    If you can stand it, here's one more bit of advice I don't think we've told you yet.  If you enter law school for any reason other than loving the law, you're going to have a hell of a hard time.  There is no rational reason to spend the amounts of time law students spend studying and what you will go through studying for the bar exam and then actually taking it is just torture.  

    Most of my days as a 1L started at 8:00a.m. and I didn't turn off the desk lamp until 1:00 a.m. the next morning because you have to learn an entirely new way of thinking and writing.  This was before I made it onto the school's Moot Court team which is another level of stress and time commitment.  Law Review is the same.

    Your life will change and so will you if you go to law school.  Brooke is lucky that she found a guy who rolled with it.  There were only a handful of people at graduation that I started out with as a 1L who were still with the person they were dating/married to at the start.  I met DH as a 3L so I had already morphed - he got a glimpse of what he missed this summer though.  His mantra was "It's only for three months."

    There's a saying that the three things guaranteed to seriously test a relationship are first year of law school, first year of medical residency and a national political campaign.
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  • It helped that DH is the kind of person who needs his alone time.  He got it in spades during 1L.  He had to deal with me bursting into tears for no reason, never going to sleep at the same time, and listening to hours of me talking about law (which he really liked to listen to--if your FI is an INTJ, you've got it made in the shade).  Also I was basically like a pregnant woman in that he had to go to the Thai place after 11 pm more than once :)

    I think I had a disproportionate number of friends stay coupled up from 1L to 3L.  Of my group of friends, I was the only engaged one, one was married, and the rest were in long-distance relationships.  One LD couple broke up (and she started dating another guy in the circle of friends late in 1L--they're still together), the other three couples are now married.  Exceptions that prove the rule, I guess.

    Truly, don't go to law school unless you love the law.  It is all-consuming in your first year and head-above-the-water your second year.  When I was 17 I knew I wanted to be a PD, and in my 3L I still do (9 years between them).  I love being in court, I love representing people.  The luster hasn't worn off for me.  Now you don't have to be crazy like me to get through law school, but it does help :)
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  • tldhtldh member
    First Comment
    edited October 2010

    Relationships lasting might have something to do with they type of school you are in.  Sounds like yours is pretty friendly where mine was cutthroat.  When a set number of "F"s have to be given out it's going to make everyone intense and short tempered.

    DH also has an MBA.  He still remembers all the legal cases he learned and thought they were landmark cases.  Cannot for the life of him understand why I've never heard of them but can give the year, case name, majority opionion and dissent of many others.  Totally different focus.

    I don't know if you saw it a year or so ago, but some attorney found a list of symptoms of a mental illness (not OCD but something along lines).  It fit the profile of pretty much every attorney so I think we all may be just a little nuts.

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  • I do think you have to be a bit of a masochist to stay in law school.

    Kate, I asked DH about his thoughts on an MBA program for what you want to do.  He said if the choice comes down to MBA vs. JD, MBA is the better option for you.  However, he said that if you want to start a production company, you're better off joining an existing one and then eventually branching out to do your own thing.  I have to say that it doesn't sound like a terrible idea.  I'm a bit of an insomniac and have watched dozens of THS on E! and every music producer or musician w/ his own production company started off in the business before starting his own company (I want to say it was Simon Cowell who started in the mail room at some record company and worked his way up).  You may know about the theory and art of music, but the business can be very different, and my (totally uninformed) impression is that you need to really know someone to break in.  Obviously such jobs are hard to get, but if that's your dream, go after it with both hands.  Raking in 5-6 figure law school debt while you wait for the economy to improve is not something I could see helping you in this regard, but I don't want to piss away your dreams.

    Bear in mind also that LSAT scores are good for 5 years and LSAC will hold your LORs for something like 6 years, so you have lots of time to make this decision.  One of the best decisions I made was to work for two years after taking the LSAT to make sure I was making the right call.  I'm so glad I took the time--it gave me maturity, work ethic, teambuilding and analytical skills (all of which are VITAL in law school)...and picked up a spouse along the way :)  Taking a few years to do something else is advice I give to EVERYONE I know who is thinking about law school.  All my friends who did it (which is most of them) are happy they did.  If you do decide to eventually pursue a career in law, it really helps you when applying for jobs to have some professional experience beyond one or two summer internships that you did in college or law school.  It doesn't need to be at all law-related, and I would recommend that it not be.  Just be sure you can talk about what you learned from it.
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