Since there are so many of these today... Help decide my future!

nefariousmango · May 2010

I'm graduating with my BS in August and have no further plans. My degree will be in molecular biology from a very competitive program but my grades are not spectacular and I have good lab experience from an internship with a world-renowned researcher, but he was never actually in the lab. I also am a semester away from an MFA in poetry (lol) that I have no real intention of finishing.

I haven't applied anywhere yet, and because of the timing I'll have until January to get any missing pre-reqs in order and take the GREs etc. Question is, what pre-reqs and exams do I need to take? To figure that out, I need to decide what I'm doing...

I love research, but an MS is basically worthless and a PhD takes a minimum of 5 years, during which I cannot "alter my immune status" (ie be pregnant) and we would like to start a family before we hit 30.

I think the best career option for having kids is being a vet, since I could have semi-normal hours and not spend all day playing with carcinogens and pathogens. Vet school is also a long program, but in theory I could be pregnant and FI wants to be a stay at home dad (he's a software engineer so he can work from home)

I could also do PA school or get my teaching license. The teaching thing would only take me 3 semesters (I did some during my MFA program) and PA school is 2-3 years.

Then there are PhD/DVM programs and DVM oncology programs (both ~8 years)...

Or I could work for a while...

WWYD???

chipypony · May 2010

It depends on money, you can be pregant while going to graduate school, its actually quite common (and I am in a science program) they cannot discriminate against you and as a TA you can get a couple weeks of paid maternity leave (at least at this school). Vet school is outragously expensive and you will end up spending most of your career trying to pay off your loans, its really not worth it and you can finish a PhD in 4 years without a masters, I have seen it done, its just dedication. Graduate school is free (at least for me) so no loans plus you get paid. PA school is only 2 years and you will be making (at least in CT) close to $60-70,000 to start. If I didn't want to get my PhD I would do that, you can make a good living, its a fun and stimulating job and you won't spend the rest of your life trying to pay it off. Vets can make good money, however, they have really poor working hours and it is not recommended to be pregnant while you are doing your work (especially towards the end) because you cannot be near some harmful chemicals and no x rays and chemo and such. It will be more difficult.

I have this same dilema, but my BF is on the other side of the country so no babies for me for a long time, even though we plan to get married while I am still in school. However, (at least for me) that brings up issues of name changing that I haven't figured out how to deal with yet.

dwest2201 · May 2010

Apply to any of the programs that really interest you and see where you are accepted and what type of funding you can get then go from there. I say this because then you can make an educated decision based on all the facts not what if's and you won't have to look back later with regrets.

chipypony · May 2010

Oh and the PhD DVM thing is not worth it. If you want to do research you can do just as much animal involved research and hands on and do some surgery and everything without being a DVM. They only accept about 2-3 students per year per program and you get paid to do your PhD but not to do your DVM. The programs i have looked at only take 7 years, 4 for your DVM and 3 for your PhD. A better option would be to do MD/PhD. I know UConn med school you can get tuition waivers and stuff for both programs (again they only take like 5-7 per year).

It's actually easier to get into med school than it is to get into vet school. There are way more applicants to vet school than there are spots where as there are way more medical schools. Vets look like they have good hours but it depends on if you do small animal or large animal. small animal you will probably be in a clinic and have to do occasional weekend and overnight hours (if you are at an emergency clinic) if you do large animal you are on call pretty much all the time (and well all know how cows love to have difficult labors in the wee hours of the morning)

nefariousmango · May 2010

Name changing is a big issue, I'm glad we're getting married before I'm published so I can change my name! My field is molecular genetics and oncology, and I have been unable to find any programs that accept people just for PhDs (and an MS alone is worthless). People keep telling me being a vet is bad for pregnancy and I keep thinking, not as bad as my current gig, where I work with the worlds strongest carcinogens every day and am exposed to antibiotic resistant strains of salmonella and e. coli! Also, all the researchers I know work ~60 hours a week for about $30k a year, and that just sucks. My old lab will find a cure for some cancers, they're so effing close, but the pharm company that develops that cure will get all the credit and all the money.

You're right about vet school, though. It's so expensive! At least all the PhD programs would pay me to be there, even if it's < min. wage

PA school is sounding better and better... plus there's one right down the street from us!

nefariousmango · May 2010

I'm on the medical response team for a horse rescue, I know large animal hours, lol! WTF is up with hard labors at 3 am, seriously? Most local practices have three vets so they rotate who's on call, I think that's reasonable enough.

I'm looking at CSU's DVM/PhD and I think my PhD stipend would cover enough of the vet school portion to make it affordable. However, like you said, they accept at most 4 people a year...

I don't want to do MD anything. I've never wanted to be a doctor and I know I'll just burn out in a program I'm not 100% interested in.

desertsun · May 2010

I think it depends on what you would ENJOY the most. It sounds like you have a passion for research. Why not go for that PhD and wait a bit longer to have kids? What are the downsides to waiting?

Ana_2985 · May 2010

Yes, I understand what you are saying about grad school and pregnancy. It is possible, but it could be very dangerous for some people depending on what you do (I'm in that situation as well).

I don't know you well enough to pick an option, but based on your post I would NOT go to graduate school. It doesn't sound like you're that into it. You will be miserable during grad school/research if your heart isn't really in it. At least in my experience.

I don't know much about vet school either, but my aunt is a vet and her hours don't interfere with her family life at all. It sounds like you're more interested in this option as well.

Do what makes you happy. Don't settle for what is convenient or makes the most sense.

catemeg · May 2010

I have heard nothing but WONDERFUL things from PAs that I know about their career and having made the choice to do PA school.

Really, it gives you an excellent career, enormous flexibility, and not nearly as much liability as doctors.

My brother's girlfriend is having a similar crisis (go to med school, go to PA school, become a nurse practitioner, do something medicine related without an advanced degree, etc.) and after all the advice we've gathered from doctors, surgeons, nurses, NP, PA, etc. it seems resoundingly in favor of PA school.

Good luck!

chipypony · May 2010

I have a friend who just started PA school (today actually) and it seems like such a good program. If I could go back knowing what I know now, I probably would, but I have too much time invested in graduate school to quit. It is not for everyone. You can get away with a Masters depending on what field you persue. A masters in something like Animal Science with a concentration in drug discovery is all you need to work as a reserach person at a pharm company and they make good money. You can still do research but not have to work as much as a PhD. I know when Pfizer came to talk to my senior class when I was an undergrad their salary was like 60,000+ a year with only a masters, they had flexible plans for mothers and stuff, it was neat. I should have considered that. But while research is good, I think being a PA is really cool. You can be an ER PA and do fun stuff or be some kind of surgery PA. In CT I think cardiac PA's get paid the best. Just make sure you do well on the GRE's if required, my friend had a perfect 4.0 and graduated in 3 years from a top university and she had a hard time getting in.

nefariousmango · May 2010

Yeah, my major GPA is a 3.8 and my MFA GPA was a 3.9 but my overall undergrad GPA is a 2.9- totally sucks! I need to rock my GRE to get in anywhere, luckily I'm pretty good at these things (I did super well on my SATs).

notquiteblushing · May 2010

I said vet school but aren't there any kind of reseach jobs you can do with just your bachelors? Grad school is so long and expensive and I prefer money.

zipis1 · May 2010

I just have to say, vets do not have normal hours. Seriously. Their hours actually suck.

At the three offices I've worked at, the vet(s) would be there before 8am and not leave til 9pm or later on a regular basis (this was often true of the vet techs too. I was once there at 8am and didn't leave til almost 1am - yes you read that right, and the vet was there longer - that's how busy we were that day -_-). Saturdays were always worked with some Sundays, and they were constantly on call. I don't think any of the vets ever got off before 8pm, and then they always took home boxes of files to work on while there. It's a very, "You do not leave until EVERYTHING is done" sort of career where your social life is pretty much nil. So if hours are one of your criteria I really wouldn't recommend it.

chipypony · May 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_there-many-of-today-decide-future-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:5becf2a7-e9cc-4a20-8612-fcbd474aab60Post:0728cba9-d8eb-4580-b124-bb94aefb1174">Re: Since there are so many of these today... Help decide my future!</a>:
[QUOTE]I said vet school but aren't there any kind of reseach jobs you can do with just your bachelors? <strong> Grad school is so long and expensive and I prefer money</strong>.
Posted by notquiteblushing[/QUOTE]

Thats a common misconception, most (maybe even all) graduate science type programs at the PhD and many at the masters level have a tuition waiver and a stipend so students don't actually pay to be there, and there is no loan. If you are good with finances you can actually save money while you are in school. My stipend is low, very low but I refuse to turn the heat on and don't turn many lights on or use much electricity and my electric bill averages about $12. I save about $300 from a month in a savings account (and thats paying for two horses too)

Narwhal · May 2010

Ohh tell me more about this tuition waver. I am interested.

I'm having the same issue trying to figure out what to do with my career too, mango. I'm getting my B.S in psychology.. I started with the intention of getting my M.A in marriage and family therapy, but then I wanted to do more clinical stuff, which would require a PhD.. then I thought social work would be a good idea, and that's an M.A too.. but now I'm thinking about neuroscience, which I would either need an MD or a PhD. My plan now is to apply for all my programs I'm interested in and see where it goes from there.

Timelines change, I know, but I really don't want to push back babies until I finish 8 years of school.

chipypony · May 2010

It really depends on the program, I didn't have to do anything special, it was part of my package that they offered in order to get me to attend. There are a couple different ways to get a waiver, one is you can be a TA and work for the department (this is what I do) you do 20 hours of work a week (not usually) and the department pays your tuition and you get a monthly stipend, (this depends on the level of the program and cost of living in your area) or you can be a research assistant where you work for a professor doing work not related to your exact thesis and you can get paid that way. Some professors will just pay for you out of their grant (if they have that much money this is usually the real famous professors).

For some schools when you apply you check off a box saying you want to be considered as a TA, and sometimes you have to write what classes/experience you have that would help you TA certain classes. I am in an Animal Science program so I TA classes about genetics and production of different livestock speices because thats where my expertise is. I don't know about psychology though, but neuroscience you are almost guranteed to get funding

noelle24 · May 2010

Maybe it's just this post, but it came across a little bit like "Hmm... how about vet school today? Yeah!". A PhD and vet school are things you should really WANT to do. Also, I know that vet school is extremely competitive, and that you need to establish your desire to be vet first. Grad school is a long, hard road, and vet school would be expensive.

I'm in a PhD program because I thought it was the next thing to do after getting my bachelor's, and it hasn't exactly been the best decision. Luckily, if I leave, a master's isnt' completely worthless for me. Anyway, I digress... don't choose lightly. I vote work for a year, volunteer to work with animals, and figure out what you really WANT to do. Trust me, it's much better than getting a few years into your degree and realizing you rather do something else. It's much harder to switch because "you've already invested so much time (and/or money)". God, how I hate that phrase right now.

nefariousmango · May 2010

Noelle- That's sort of where I'm at, not wanting to spend time/money in something I'm not 100% into. I really, really love the research I've been doing and would love to continue it, but I don't want to do my PhD in this lab because, well, the PI is an asshole and I was relieved when my internship ended. I miss doing my lab work, though. I loved figuring everything out, understanding every details so I could go back to every single step and figure out where I went wrong, or more often which reagent was bad (I took over a project that hadn't been active for years so most of the ligases were no longer viable, but they cost a small fortune so I had to prove that they were bad before I could get new ones).

Anyway, the only reasons not to do a PhD are 1) the kids thing (There's a contract that I have to sign to be in these labs that says I won't alter my immune status, no joke) and 2) we love where we live, and I can commute to PA school or vet school from here, but there are no PhD programs that interest me here. I'm applying to a few programs overseas... we'll see.

I have always wanted to be a vet, like I said above I've been on the horse care team and ER medical response team at a horse rescue for over 2 years. I've gotten quite good at diagnosing and handling a large variety of problems thanks to the wide pool of situations AC seizes horses from. Really, I got sidetracked from the vet track by how much I love molecular genetics, but I am passionate about both paths.

PA school, however, really doesn't excite me.

chipypony · May 2010

Don't waste your time in something thats not exciting. What about doing a PhD program in the vet school, many people don't realize that the vet schools also do PhD programs that don't require you to be a vet. I have never heard of a PhD program not allowing you to become pregnant, thats considered discrimination, although there's no way in hell you would want to do it, grad school is stressfull enough.
My only caution is while in vet school being pregnant is also going to be difficult, you have to do clinical rotations during some summers and if you want to do large animals that will be dangerous. I guess you will have to weight you options.
I can say it wasn't an easy decision for me, if all goes well its going to take me 4.5 years to finish 2 masters and a PhD by then I will be 26. Then I will probably have to do a postdoc and I want to be finished having kids by age 30, its going to be tight.

nefariousmango · May 2010

Yeah, I'm turning 25 so the pressure is really on about kids! I think they can get away with the contract because it's a real hazard to be pregnant when you're working with antibiotic resistant bacteria and the strongest carcinogens known to man for over 40 hrs a week. They can't prevent me from being pregnant, they just waive all responsibility for my health and survival in the case that I'm dumb enough to alter my immune status. Getting kicked by a cow is at least somewhat avoidable... although I would really hate to be pregnant and working with large animals like that.

I'll probably apply to CSU's PhD in oncology, but the research I really like is being done at Berkeley and in Australia (where I'll also apply but am unlikely to get in). I'm also really interested in the role of protein misfolding in carcinogenesis so I need to read up a bit more and see if anyone's doing anything interesting there.

chipypony · May 2010

Thats the hard part, I am doing pretty cutting edge genetics research that is only done at about 3 places in the US, even if I wanted to be closer to BF I can go to Missouri or Georgia, I might as well stay here its not that much closer.

Narwhal · May 2010

School decisions are too hard.

noelle24 · May 2010

Sorry nef, I missed the part about the horse care team, etc. That's what I get for only reading the OP. I'm chalking it up to my horrible day yesterday.

As for the kids thing, unless you know you'll have trouble getting pregnant, I don't think you have to worry too, too much if you wait until 30 to have kids. Just a thought.

nefariousmango · May 2010

It's true, we could have kids after 30. I dunno, you know how it is when you have this idea in your head of what your life timeline should be, sometimes it's hard to let go.

leia1979 · May 2010

I don't think I understood 40% of that conversation (just too far outside my field), but it does sound like you're not enthused about PA school, so maybe that's not the way to go.

I will say thank you for making me feel like an underachiever.

I'm 30, we're not planning on having children, but I'm still too lazy to go get an MBA (working full time and going to school on the weekends for three years does not appeal to me...not to mention the $80k+ tuition to go someplace sufficiently snobby).

I know I'm a bit spreadsheet-crazy, but maybe you could make a list of pros and cons for each choice.

Since there are so many of these today... Help decide my future!

Re: Since there are so many of these today... Help decide my future!

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