Uh Oh, Bad PR

Oface4eva · June 2013

http://wonderwall.msn.com/movies/michael-douglas-oral-sex-gave-me-cancer-1754050.story

I can see the connection, but all I can think is "saddddd"

DixieNormous330 · June 2013

way to give people and excuse to receive but not give. ~grump.~

Oface4eva · June 2013

That was my thought exactly---I almost posted "LIKELY STORY"

dharmabunny · June 2013

Eh, cancer geek is actually "glad" to hear this aired out on the public, since there's a growing body of research in H+N cancers showing HPV infection. It's not only a women's nasty cervical albatross to bear anymore, and a dude's "eh, whatever"

PMeg819 · June 2013

dharmabunny said:

Eh, cancer geek is actually "glad" to hear this aired out on the public, since there's a growing body of research in H+N cancers showing HPV infection. It's not only a women's nasty cervical albatross to bear anymore, and a dude's "eh, whatever"

This. I am interested to see if in a few years we'll also hear about increased anal cancers from HPV. Get yo' girls AND boys vaccinated against HPV folks.

dharmabunny · June 2013

PMeg819 said:

dharmabunny said:

Eh, cancer geek is actually "glad" to hear this aired out on the public, since there's a growing body of research in H+N cancers showing HPV infection. It's not only a women's nasty cervical albatross to bear anymore, and a dude's "eh, whatever"

This. I am interested to see if in a few years we'll also hear about increased anal cancers from HPV. Get yo' girls AND boys vaccinated against HPV folks.

I think there's already a good body of evidence showing evidence of HPV in anal cancers as well. Its amazing how Puritanical American medicine didn't think of this sooner.

PMeg819 · June 2013

There is, I phrased it badly. I meant more it coming to light from a Hollywood perspective.

SBmini · June 2013

One of my clients does a lot of tobacco cessation work. We were all rolling our eyes at this yesterday. The man smoked for many years, but no, his habit didn't cause his cancer, a little virus did! Take responsibility of your actions sir.

Heffalump · June 2013

SBmini said:

One of my clients does a lot of tobacco cessation work. We were all rolling our eyes at this yesterday. The man smoked for many years, but no, his habit didn't cause his cancer, a little virus did! Take responsibility of your actions sir.

WTF? It's not necessarily either/or, since both are risk factors. See also:

"So how does HPV infection, which is often symptomless, cause cancer? As the virus infects the layers of epithelial cells that coat the throat and surrounding areas, it can interrupt the cells’ normal function and cause genetic mutations. If the body’s immune system fails to identify and destroy these abnormal cells, they may continue to grow and ultimately form a cancerous tumor. The CDC notes that factors such as alcohol and tobacco use may aggravate this transformation." http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/explainer/2013/06/michael_douglas_hpv_why_oral_sex_can_cause_oral_cancer.html

NOLABridesmaid · June 2013

Did you say anal cancer? I know cancer can grow anywhere, but those poor people.

Those poor people.....

SBmini · June 2013

Heffalump said:

SBmini said:

One of my clients does a lot of tobacco cessation work. We were all rolling our eyes at this yesterday. The man smoked for many years, but no, his habit didn't cause his cancer, a little virus did! Take responsibility of your actions sir.

WTF? It's not necessarily either/or, since both are risk factors. See also:
"So how does HPV infection, which is often symptomless, cause cancer? As the virus infects the layers of epithelial cells that coat the throat and surrounding areas, it can interrupt the cells’ normal function and cause genetic mutations. If the body’s immune system fails to identify and destroy these abnormal cells, they may continue to grow and ultimately form a cancerous tumor. The CDC notes that factors such as alcohol and tobacco use may aggravate this transformation." http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/explainer/2013/06/michael_douglas_hpv_why_oral_sex_can_cause_oral_cancer.html

I'm not seeing any evidence being pointed to in any article that says that based on the type of cancer he had that it can be 100% correlated to HPV. The fact is, you have a far greater chance of getting throat cancer from tobacco than you do from oral sex.

According to the Oral Cancer Foundation 42,000 will be diagnosed with oral cancer this year. When compared with the CDC's statistics this means 20% will be some result of HPV, while 60% will be a direct result of tobacco.

I think Mr. Douglas is in denial of how his smoking and drinking has affected his health.

PMeg819 · June 2013

You can look at pathology. For instance, patients with EGFR mutations in lung cancer typically do no have a history of smoking/tobacco abuse. With out seeing his path/mutation status you really have no idea. Additionally, he may have tested positive for a cancer causing strain of HPV.

dharmabunny · June 2013

One, I think it was noted that the pathology was consistent with HPV infection, and I want to say that his cancer tested positive for HPV

Two, I would try a little harder not to confuse risk factor with contractual certainty. It's a pretty bad oversimplification.

Three, I'm sure he spent plenty of hanging on his bad bad smoker/drinker cross. I'd say it was likely the very first thing his oncologist thought. He's had throat cancer a looooong time. That kind of "ownership" doesn't really accomplish anything other than satisfying some public health smug righteous indignation.

dharmabunny · June 2013

Plenty of time

Heffalump · June 2013

Exactly ^^^. They can type your strain pretty easily (I used to manage DNA microarrays that did just that), and it's pretty clear now which strains are closely correlated with increased risk of cancer. 16 and 18 were the big ones a few years ago, and they may have identified others since.

SB, you don't know enough to say whether the ultimate cause of his cancer was smoking, drinking, HPV, or a combination thereof.

mrsconn23 · June 2013

NOLABridesmaid said:

Did you say anal cancer? I know cancer can grow anywhere, but those poor people.

Those poor people.....

One of my supervisors died from it. It was pretty terrible.

SBmini · June 2013

dharmabunny said:

One, I think it was noted that the pathology was consistent with HPV infection, and I want to say that his cancer tested positive for HPV Two, I would try a little harder not to confuse risk factor with contractual certainty. It's a pretty bad oversimplification. Three, I'm sure he spent plenty of hanging on his bad bad smoker/drinker cross. I'd say it was likely the very first thing his oncologist thought. He's had throat cancer a looooong time. That kind of "ownership" doesn't really accomplish anything other than satisfying some public health smug righteous indignation.

As I said, none of the articles I read validated the claim, they just said that Douglas was blaming HPV with no proof that it was true. If there is evidence otherwise, I take back what I said.

PMeg819 · June 2013

I would think that if he said he got SCC HN via HPV that someone would have said to him, probably an oncologist, that was the case. Most people are fairly aware that long term tobaccoism can cause cancer and other chronic health conditions. Most people are not aware that HPV causes anal, cervical, and head and neck cancers.Seriously, there are several of us on this board that work in oncology and specifically with patients/research. We kinda know what we're talking about.

Uh Oh, Bad PR

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