NWR: Combating entitlement/ungratefulness

WildMagelet · December 2013

Despite FI & BM having conversations with FSS (10) about being grateful for what you're given, saying thank you, gifts are not required, the true meaning of Christmas, etc. FSS still has problems with feeling entitled to get what he wants whenever he wants it and doesn't say thank you unless prompted (i.e. - If someone else says "Thank you for dinner" to the cook/host then he'll chime in, but he won't go out of his way to express gratitude on his own.)

We *don't* give him everything he asks for. We do what we can, when we can, but he still has to do chores for spending $ and he still gets told 'no' by all 3 of us parent-types. BMs parents I know will tell him no, FIs parents do but don't like to (when it comes to spending $) I think because they live further away.

We just had xmas at our house and he didn't say *anything* to either one of us. He looked over and tossed aside all judgy-like one clothing item that we bought him that wasn't name-brand, but even the name-brand clothes he prefers and the items he specifically asked for he didn't even feign appreciation or excitement about. He freaked out and went crazy over the newest electronic present from the grandparents (which wasn't given until after our normal gift exchange ritual) but he didn't say thank you to FI or I for fixing an elaborate meal or any of the gifts. FI pulled him aside and confronted him about it but he claims that he said "thank you." He made a point to say a general "thanks" to his dad before he left but still didn't say anything to me. He also didn't say anything to me about the gift my parents had sent for him.

I don't get it. His older sister (15) always acts sincerely appreciative and grateful, even if she secretly detests the gift that she's given. She is polite and says thank you for home-cooked meals and if we go out to eat. She says thank you for gifts, favors, and help received. I know both his parents have always told him to say thank you and be grateful for what he's given. I know FI, BM and I always say thank you for gifts at the time of opening and again at the end of our exchange. I know he is around when BM is working on teaching proper gift receiving manners to his baby half-sister (20 mos). He's constantly exposed to it, but for whatever reason it isn't clicking with him.

Talking thus far hasn't work. The one thing that sticks out in my mind is withholding presents the next time we'd normally give them (skipping presents for his birthday, donating his would-be gifts to the rescue mission, or giving gifts to his sisters for Valentine's Day or Easter). I feel like there has to be some sort of in-between that wouldn't potentially turn into "playing favorites." Making him shop second hand? Allowing him a budget for off-brand and letting him pay the difference if name brand is really that important? It's going to be months before we'd normally take him shopping again.

Any ideas? FI's at a loss as to what else to try (besides skipping gifts) and I don't have any bright ideas on this one.

HaileyDancingbear · December 2013

It kinda sounds like he doesn't really have a strong grasp on what money is worth, I imagine he feels like money grows on trees. It's hard for a kid to really grasp being thankful when they don't fully understand the time/effort/money that was spent on them.

How much is his allowance, is he able to buy things he wants, or do you chip in when he needs clothes etc? It might help to raise the allowance a bit, but in exchange stop chipping in for stuff he wants (Unless it's essential like underwear or socks or pajamas etc.) so if he wants to buy a brand name article of clothing, he'll have to pay for it himself.

I think it's a lot harder to spend $100 on one thing when you have to hand over a wad of money and then have an empty wallet, than it is to ask your parent to swipe a card. When I was younger, I used to be obsessed with buying juicy couture clothes (Lame. I only wanted them because my friend made me feel bad for not having them.) until I went into the store with my own money and decided I didn't want to spend $80 on a t-shirt, when I could go into a different store and get a whole outfit for that price.

Another thing, does he ever buy gifts for other people? He doesn't have to buy anything big obviously, but maybe on gift giving holidays get him to buy a $10-$15 gift for someone, just so he knows what it's like to be on the giving side. I think it might benefit him to feel how nice it is to be thanked and appreciated for generosity.

I feel like if you can find a positive way to teach your FSS to appreciate the idea of gift-giving, he'll learn a lot more than just having his presents taken away once. I feel like if you just take away his presents, maybe he'll start saying "Thank you," but chances are he'll just say it to appease you, not because he actually feels any more grateful than he did before. I'm not saying punishment is always bad, I'm just saying that punishment is for situations in which there is no positive way to handle it.

WildMagelet · December 2013

HaileyDancingbear said:

It kinda sounds like he doesn't really have a strong grasp on what money is worth, I imagine he feels like money grows on trees. It's hard for a kid to really grasp being thankful when they don't fully understand the time/effort/money that was spent on them.
How much is his allowance, is he able to buy things he wants, or do you chip in when he needs clothes etc? It might help to raise the allowance a bit, but in exchange stop chipping in for stuff he wants (Unless it's essential like underwear or socks or pajamas etc.) so if he wants to buy a brand name article of clothing, he'll have to pay for it himself.
I think it's a lot harder to spend $100 on one thing when you have to hand over a wad of money and then have an empty wallet, than it is to ask your parent to swipe a card. When I was younger, I used to be obsessed with buying juicy couture clothes (Lame. I only wanted them because my friend made me feel bad for not having them.) until I went into the store with my own money and decided I didn't want to spend $80 on a t-shirt, when I could go into a different store and get a whole outfit for that price.
Another thing, does he ever buy gifts for other people? He doesn't have to buy anything big obviously, but maybe on gift giving holidays get him to buy a $10-$15 gift for someone, just so he knows what it's like to be on the giving side. I think it might benefit him to feel how nice it is to be thanked and appreciated for generosity.
I feel like if you can find a positive way to teach your FSS to appreciate the idea of gift-giving, he'll learn a lot more than just having his presents taken away once. I feel like if you just take away his presents, maybe he'll start saying "Thank you," but chances are he'll just say it to appease you, not because he actually feels any more grateful than he did before. I'm not saying punishment is always bad, I'm just saying that punishment is for situations in which there is no positive way to handle it.

His mom is actually the one who does the allowance bit since he's there most of the time, so I'm not entirely sure. I know right now his allowance is being saved up towards extra expenditures & spending money for their vacation in Feb for a wedding.

I don't think he buys things with his own money for other people. He does occasionally make gifts, so he at least understands the time & effort part of that. Usually purchased gifts I believe he's given a budget and mom or dad pays.

I agree with the bolded. I don't think it is the best idea either nor do I think it would garner the results we're looking for.

Thanks for the suggestions. I think making him allocate some of his own hard-earned money towards other people and purchasing luxuries himself are both great suggestions. If nothing else we can do it here and with our purchases, but I'm willing to bet BM would be on board as well.

GrrArgh · December 2013

I need a freakin' acronym glossary >_<

afox007 · December 2013

Since he's only 10 I think a big part of it is that he just doesn't understand the value of money. FI's son had a similar sense of entitlement. He knows his mom is broke, but that FI makes "good money" so he doesn't think there should be a cap on what we buy. We had him do chores to save up to do one of the adopt a kid xmas presents and once he saw how many hours of chores were involved to earn the money for just the one gift he was way more grateful for his presents tonight, including the underwear my mom got him.

photokitty · December 2013

GrrArgh said:
I need a freakin' acronym glossary >_<

Agreed! Is BM now bio-mom as well as best man, bridesmaids, and Bob Marley?? Otherwise i can't figure out why the best man is shop involved in parenting the future step son...assuming i got that one correct.

artbyallie · December 2013

GrrArgh said:

I need a freakin' acronym glossary >_<

FI=fiancé

BM=(in this case)birth mother

FSS=future stepson

STARMOON44 · December 2013

I can't imagine a 10 year old reacting to his father's fiancée getting rid of gifts in a way that would be remotely productive.

How about suggesting his father prompt him to say thank you to people, and offering to help him select/purchase gifts for the people whol will be giving them to him?

He's 10. You talk as though he's a lost cause of selfishness, but he's probably still learning. Combine that with a combined family situation and I think you should cut the kid some slack.

WildMagelet · December 2013

STARMOON44 said:

I can't imagine a 10 year old reacting to his father's fiancée getting rid of gifts in a way that would be remotely productive. How about suggesting his father prompt him to say thank you to people, and offering to help him select/purchase gifts for the people whol will be giving them to him? He's 10. You talk as though he's a lost cause of selfishness, but he's probably still learning. Combine that with a combined family situation and I think you should cut the kid some slack

The not doing presents anymore wasn't my idea originally (I see I didn't clarify that in my OP). Also, I've known him since he was 2 so even if was my idea I doubt my status as dad's fiancée versus any other family member that's not a birth parent would be relevant. This isn't new, but it's something we thought he'd grow out of with age & experience but hasn't yet.

We do prompt him to say thank you and he does select gifts for other people for birthdays/holidays and he will say something when prompted, but not on his own. For whatever reason it just hasn't stuck.

I don't think he's a lost cause, we're just frustrated and FI's feelings were hurt by FSS's behavior yesterday so I came here looking for suggestions.

aurorajanette · December 2013

When I was a kid in the early 90's, my parents got me a subscription to a money management magazine for kids. It was a huge part in my learning the value of a dollar, as well as valuable investments, saving money, etc. I can't for the life of me remember what it was called, and I have no idea if it's still being made, but I think that something like that may be a present worth getting your FSS. To this day, I diligently keep track of all expenses, and am very aware of what I spend my money on, value and savings. I attribute it mostly to the magazine.

As far as thanking people for meals cooked, I think that's something that you need to just lead by example with. Most kids have no idea how much money it costs to make a big meal, or the time committement that goes into it. I think for the most part, they really don't get that concept. I think that if you want to show him how much of a committement it is, invite him to help you prepare the meal next time, or take him grocery shopping with you, and point out the cost of items as you go through the store, maybe comparing it to you or your FI's hourly wage. Sometimes even I will make purchases based on how many hours I have to work to be able to purchase something (ie. 'is this really worth a full 6 hours of pay?').

CrazyCatLady3 · December 2013

I'm not a child development expert but I think you need to just lead by example and not stress over it so much. Once he gets older the concepts of gratitude and politeness will make more sense to him.

RebeccaB88 · December 2013

CrazyCatLady3 said:

I'm not a child development expert but I think you need to just lead by example and not stress over it so much. Once he gets older the concepts of gratitude and politeness will make more sense to him.

Uh, he's 10, not 2. Well old enough to at least know how to fake some kind of positive reaction and speak up with his own thank you. They all are leading by example. They are getting in his face about it. He doesn't care. In my family, there would absolutely be no more gifts, at all, ever, until that kid learned some level of gratitude. And, he would know exactly what is happening and why because he would be informed of it in no uncertain terms, and it would be explained repeatedly as needed until it sunk in. I know that something similar was done to a cousin when I was younger, and eventually it did work, but there was a lot of back and forth dialogue with her about it. She also learned through that how far or not far her babysitting money went when she wanted something, and that if you blow money on something unimportant or impulsive, it's not there when you need something important. I think he's had plenty of time to learn. But, if you do decide to stop gifts, the information needs to come from his dad and biomom, not stepmom. They need to make it clear to him that stepmom and grandparents are only enforcing the parents wishes. Would his sister have any influence over him? TK really needs to give me my paragraphs back, dammit. Sorry that makes it so hard to read.

RebeccaB88 · December 2013

Double post

Liatris2010 · December 2013

I'd box up all his gifts and tell him he can't have any of them until he's written a thank you card to every person whose given him a gift or cooked him a meal. If they aren't mailed by new year's anything that hasn't been mentioned in a thank you card goes to goodwill.

I hated writing TY cards as a kid, but I'm glad my mom made me do it because now they are second nature. I'm sitting next to a box of stationery right now, ready to write my Christmas thank yous.

KeptInStitches · December 2013

When I was a kid in the early 90's, my parents got me a subscription to a money management magazine for kids. It was a huge part in my learning the value of a dollar, as well as valuable investments, saving money, etc. I can't for the life of me remember what it was called, and I have no idea if it's still being made, but I think that something like that may be a present worth getting your FSS. To this day, I diligently keep track of all expenses, and am very aware of what I spend my money on, value and savings. I attribute it mostly to the magazine.

As far as thanking people for meals cooked, I think that's something that you need to just lead by example with. Most kids have no idea how much money it costs to make a big meal, or the time committement that goes into it. I think for the most part, they really don't get that concept. I think that if you want to show him how much of a committement it is, invite him to help you prepare the meal next time, or take him grocery shopping with you, and point out the cost of items as you go through the store, maybe comparing it to you or your FI's hourly wage. Sometimes even I will make purchases based on how many hours I have to work to be able to purchase something (ie. 'is this really worth a full 6 hours of pay?').

Was it maybe called Zillions? That stopped being printed in 2000 apparently, but maybe it survives online under the Consumer Reports website.

CLI242009 · December 2013

artbyallie said:

GrrArgh said:

I need a freakin' acronym glossary >_<

FI=fiancé
BM=(in this case)birth mother
FSS=future stepson

Thank you!!!! I was sitting here thinking it was FSS = Future special snowflake?? o.O lol

Anaelsea · December 2013

Frankly, it takes a strong grown man to put a teenager/young man in his place.

A real man needs to put the pressure on him, or make him work for his food, or rent. These days we'll give kids everything. I would give him an envelope that reads, we spent X amount to pay for your meal tonight, if you express gratitude by doing the dishes, we will give you your gift. Your choice, you can A: sulk, B:call us assholes, or C: join the family as a human being. Or sit him down and have him watch scared straight on TV when hes alot older(they take first time offenders to prison and the lifers convince the teenagers not to be thiefs etc). Anyways, im super passive aggressive, so id prally guilt him into being grateful, but it takes a mans man from what ive seen, to check a younger man into being upright. My cousin was sent up to live with my uncle in the summers, and he came back well mannered (my uncle is a no BS construction worker lol).

Anaelsea · December 2013

The younger the better, put him in boyscouts

Kerigirl9 · December 2013

Although I agree with the concept of the post, and fully agree that children need to be taught manners, I think this may be going a little too far.

Seems as though I'm in the minority here but to expect a 10 year old to thank his/her parents/stepparents for cooking an elaborate meal is a little ridiculous. He's 10 and children are the most selfish people on the planet. I cant imagine he has any idea what went into cooking that meal. I don't recall thanking my mother for cooking for me until I was a teenager. Its not that I didn't appreciate it... It just didn't occur to me.

And OP I'm sure it didn't even dawn on him to thank you for the gift your parents sent. Hopefully if they had been there he would have thanked them directly. Lets face it.... Getting clothes is not as much fun for a 10 year old as getting electronics so I'm not surprised at that reaction either.

His 15 year old sister SHOULD have better manners than him. I don't think you can compare the two.

Just keep enforcing and rewarding good behavior and model properly and he should come around. Withholding gifts seems like an extreme measure IMO.

s-aries8990 · December 2013

Can your FI have him write thank you notes for gifts? I think FI and BM need to get together, have a conversation about him, and then each have a separate conversation with him on separate, different, and multiple occasions.

I agree with Kerigirl - a 10 year old won't say thank you for a meal, but maybe it's time to have him help out with the "meal time chores" like helping prep, cook, set the table, or clean up? If they understand what goes into "putting on" a meal, they'll be more inclined to seem appreciative, even if they don't say thank you.

aurorajanette · December 2013

KeptInStitches said:

When I was a kid in the early 90's, my parents got me a subscription to a money management magazine for kids. It was a huge part in my learning the value of a dollar, as well as valuable investments, saving money, etc. I can't for the life of me remember what it was called, and I have no idea if it's still being made, but I think that something like that may be a present worth getting your FSS. To this day, I diligently keep track of all expenses, and am very aware of what I spend my money on, value and savings. I attribute it mostly to the magazine.

As far as thanking people for meals cooked, I think that's something that you need to just lead by example with. Most kids have no idea how much money it costs to make a big meal, or the time committement that goes into it. I think for the most part, they really don't get that concept. I think that if you want to show him how much of a committement it is, invite him to help you prepare the meal next time, or take him grocery shopping with you, and point out the cost of items as you go through the store, maybe comparing it to you or your FI's hourly wage. Sometimes even I will make purchases based on how many hours I have to work to be able to purchase something (ie. 'is this really worth a full 6 hours of pay?').
Was it maybe called Zillions? That stopped being printed in 2000 apparently, but maybe it survives online under the Consumer Reports website.

After googling it, I think it was Zillions. It was such a great publication for kids. Too bad it's not printed anymore.

smalfrie19 · December 2013

Anaelsea said:

The younger the better, put him in boyscouts

this I agree with!

huskypuppy14 · December 2013

smalfrie19 said:

Anaelsea said:

The younger the better, put him in boyscouts

this I agree with!

Personally, I was in girl scouts which is a great organization (not affiliated with boy scouts). But I would never put my future son in boy scouts- the organization is discriminatory and religiously motivated. (Sorry, just my two cents.)

WildMagelet · December 2013

Although I agree with the concept of the post, and fully agree that children need to be taught manners, I think this may be going a little too far.

Seems as though I'm in the minority here but to expect a 10 year old to thank his/her parents/stepparents for cooking an elaborate meal is a little ridiculous. He's 10 and children are the most selfish people on the planet. I cant imagine he has any idea what went into cooking that meal. I don't recall thanking my mother for cooking for me until I was a teenager. Its not that I didn't appreciate it... It just didn't occur to me.

And OP I'm sure it didn't even dawn on him to thank you for the gift your parents sent. Hopefully if they had been there he would have thanked them directly. Lets face it.... Getting clothes is not as much fun for a 10 year old as getting electronics so I'm not surprised at that reaction either.

His 15 year old sister SHOULD have better manners than him. I don't think you can compare the two.

Just keep enforcing and rewarding good behavior and model properly and he should come around. Withholding gifts seems like an extreme measure IMO.

I'm not disagreeing with you about which gift he would consider better, I was just giving a specific example of two extremes. He didn't even seem appreciative of the specific items he had asked for that we had purchased for him.

I believe you misunderstood the intention of my comment. She had better behavior in this regard when I met her at age 8 than he does now at 10.

I appreciate all of the comments I've gotten on this thread so far and have been passing the suggestions along as I read them. Thanks, ladies!

NWR: Combating entitlement/ungratefulness

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