1st Official Argument w/ FI? Am I wrong?

futureallen2015 · February 2014

Sooo....We have only been engaged for a couple months but have been talking about details here and there for our wedding. So, we have discussed this before but i try to cut the convo short before to avoid this argument but it went down last night!! He is a devout Christian. I am a Christian too but I tell him that he needs to loosen up a bit.

His stance: No alcohol at the wedding. No open bar. Not even wine for the toast.

Why: He hit me with some bible verses before stating that it is disrespectful to his family and friends.

My stance: Open Bar or Wine for the toast (at least).

Why: I come from a family that likes to drink even though I do not. I want them to enjoy themselves and feel comfortable.

His 2nd stance: Cupid Shuffle, Christian music, some jazz.

Why: Again, respect his family, friends and church members. He does not listen to secular music. at. all.

My 2nd stance: Play a variety: Christian, Jazz, Old school, some new school.

Why: We will have a variety of people there and again I want everyone that spends their money to travel to our wedding to enjoy themselves.

Seemingly small matters, but we bumped heads pretty hard on this last night. We bumped heads when setting a budget but not quite like last night. He is not even talking to me today. (And he called my cat ugly last night!! I don't play about my kitty!!) First of all, am I wrong? Any helpful advice for future discussions?

**One more thing, he asked me if it is fair for us to split the budget 50/50 or if I feel he should put in more. I got a little offended because he makes significantly more money than I do. Even though I am not keeping tally, (it shouldn't be that way) I feel in a small way that he should be happy to put forth a little more $$$. Once again, am I wrong??

dharmabunny · February 2014

futureallen2015 said:
(And he called my cat ugly last night!! I don't play about my kitty!!)

This gave me a giggle

Srsly, there's not really a right or wrong answe to this. Go back to your man, learn how to compromise instead of doing an internet "survey says" as ammo.

emmyg65 · February 2014

Neither of you is right or wrong; you just have different opinions. But it sounds like you have some major faith differences that go beyond wedding planning. Also, it's never a good idea to avoid discussion something because you're afraid of argument. It's a cliché, but good communication is the key to a healthy marriage! Learning to argue well is part of that.

JaxInBlue · February 2014

My first thought reading this is that most of this isn't a wedding planning question; this is a bigger question about how the two of you individually and together, practice your faith. His reasons for not wanting particular things seem to be rooted in how he sees his faith practice, particularly because he does not listen to secular music. In my opinion, this makes it harder to say definitely that someone is right or wrong, particularly because his positions, even if more conservative than yours, are not outside of proper hosting etiquette. All of your questions are things you need to talk about, again, without assuming it's an either/or proposition.

How do you treat alcohol in your home when your family visits? It's not rude, or even inconsiderate, to not provide alcohol at your wedding if it is not part how you would otherwise host guests. You can still have an amazing beverage selection - teas, -ades, mocktails, punches, non-alcoholic spritzers. Would he feel comfortable offering nonalcoholic beers and wines?

As to music, would it be possible to compromise on a specific play list, rather than general categories? I know it would take you more work, but could you two work with your DJ to develop enough of a playlist based around songs that you both agree can be played, regardless of their genre were you to look for the on iTunes? That way, you might be able to balance some more secular, popular music with Christian/jazz/instrumental but avoid songs contain objectionable language, too much innuendo, etc. Or, would you be willing to give him veto power over certain categories of more popular music. For example, would country be okay but you are willing to leave rap off?

Finally, what worked for us budget wise was to each contribute based on what we contributed to our household. That meant I put in less than he did, but we both agreed in advance about how much we'd spend. I think in this case, fair doesn't necessary mean equal and if you already share expenses unequally, and it would be hardship or a stress for you to each put in the same amount, it's only reasonable to carry over your prior financial planning.

GBCK · February 2014

So, with this splitting the budget 50/50 thing...are you guys not merging finances?
Are you waiting until the day of to merge them?
do you have budgets worked out for when you are married?

And, have you guys talked about where you stand on the role of religion and church in your lives?
and (I'm working on words for this one, it's going to be awkward)--lets assume that 10 years from now, re: faith/religion, one or both of you is in a very VERY different place. Have you talked about how to handle that?
(There's this human nature fallacy that we've discovered our 'truth'--that what we like/dislike/believe now is where we're going to stay. there was an article I can't find right now, recently that if you pinned down someone's favorite band 10 years ago, and asked someone hwo much they'd pay for a concert ticket to see them, they'd name a relatively low price. Ask them about their current fave and they'd name a higher price. ask them if they'd buy a ticket for a high price to see their current fave, 10 years from now, they'd say yes. But, really...they'd regret that in 10 years because we have grown/changed into what we like NOW, we haven't grown into what we'll like forever. Apply that to religion. I don't need to be with someone who likes all of my favorite bands or goes to church with me every sunday...but where my husband and I stand on music or religion now is NOT what it was 10 years ago)

I see some flags here that are more than just wedding stuff.

FiancB · February 2014

Hm. He definitely sounds WAY more conservative than you do, which is kind of an issue outside of wedding stuff. Like others said, hopefully you can find a compromise with clean music only, and maybe just one toast. It sounds like he's more afraid of people getting ripped and raucous, so hopefully he'll come around to that at least since nobody's going to get blasted off a glass of bubbly. He isn't wrong, but I kinda wonder what kind of arguments will happen in the future.

As far as budgeting goes, we plan on merging our finances. In a way I'm paying for it, but that's because I have a large chunk of money set aside from selling my truck. I consider it ours, just like this is our wedding. We haven't merged bank accounts but do go 50/50 on most things- it just happens that I have a large amount of money set aside so we're using that. I don't know if I like the 50/50 thing when he makes way more, I'd be worried if he'd be as stingy with, say, buying a house. It's unrealistic to split everything down the middle, and it makes you feel more like roommates than a cohesive unit.

ReturnOfKuus · February 2014

What's with Christians being anti-alcohol? Didn't Jesus provide the wine for a wedding once?

Anyway, he sounds super-fundie, and you sound... not. I don't predict the wedding being the last of this as an issue. And I have to ask: how has this not come up before? You say this is your first fight. How long have you been a couple?

HisGirlFriday13 · February 2014

ReturnOfKuus said:

What's with Christians being anti-alcohol? Didn't Jesus provide the wine for a wedding once?

Anyway, he sounds super-fundie, and you sound... not. I don't predict the wedding being the last of this as an issue. And I have to ask: how has this not come up before? You say this is your first fight. How long have you been a couple?

Yes, the Wedding at Cana.

However, a lot of right-wing Christians point to the Book of Genesis and Noah getting drunk and say that alcohol is bad. (There are other OT examples, but that's the big one).

OP, you and your FI need to get on the same page -- if he needs to "loosen up" as you say, then he's far more conservative than you are, and that has other ramifications -- does he believe the man should be the head of the household? Is he a firm believer in Eph.5:21-33? How will you handle disputes?

Are you two on the same page in other aspects of religion and faith? Those can be deal-breakers for couples.

ReturnOfKuus · February 2014

I would think that preferring the old testament to the new would make you Jewish, but what do I know?

GBCK · February 2014

There's also "no no, he turned it into grapejuice--virgin wine--it needed time to ferment before it became wine' hand wringing in WCTU-type circles. (<you guys know not to ask me how I know this :-P)

HisGirlFriday13 · February 2014

ReturnOfKuus said:

I would think that preferring the old testament to the new would make you Jewish, but what do I know?

I would think so, too, but the evangelical pastor friend of mine of whom I asked this has never been able to sufficiently explain to me why Noah trumps Jesus.

FiancB · February 2014

I thought about this some more and I think this might have some major problems in the future. Like maybe sex, or pretty much EVERYTHING concerning kids, if you're planning on having them- it sounds like the two of you will probably have some extremely different parenting styles, and may both be fairly stubborn (not necessarily a bad thing, just an observation).

Like I can only imagine what would happen if you guys disagree on whether kiddo should be circumcised, or if you want to wait on a baptism, or if teenage kiddo turns out to be gay or something. TBH I could be biased because I can't relate to people like this at all, but yeah... sounds like he has some really strong opinions and schemas and I'll just leave it at that.

mrsconn23 · February 2014

I agree with GBCK and FiancB. This goes beyond booze or no booze and what music to play at your reception.

I mean, every time you disagree, is he going to pull out the bible and start beating quoting it? Are you going to roll your eyes and tell him to lighten up?

You describe him as 'devout'. People who I envision in my life as devout are not willing to stray too far (or at all) from their convictions. If you guys are not on the same level, you really need to discuss it. It's not fun or comfortable, but neither is living a stifled existence where you feel you can't be yourself around your spouse.

Vivandiere8 · February 2014

HisGirlFriday13 said:

ReturnOfKuus said:

I would think that preferring the old testament to the new would make you Jewish, but what do I know?

I would think so, too, but the evangelical pastor friend of mine of whom I asked this has never been able to sufficiently explain to me why Noah trumps Jesus.

And here I have always thought the story about Noah was about not getting drunk, and not disrespecting your father even if he is drunk. There wasn't anything in that story forbidding the drinking of wine. I mean by that logic we shouldn't eat fruit (because of Adam and Eve), or get married, have sex, have kids, or ride on donkeys, because there are too many stories in the Bible of people messing up when involving those things...

I've heard the "Jesus really made grape juice argument"... Which is kind of weird when the head waiter is so confused as to why the groom would save the best wine/grape juice for last when he should have served it first. And that it was apparently going to be such a huge embarrassment when they ran out of the wine/grape juice too son. From knowing the nature of these drinks... kind of sounds like they were talking about wine.

I guess I will have to find someone who thinks this way and have a friendly little debate about it because it just doesn't quite compute in my mind.

HisGirlFriday13 · February 2014

Hey, it doesn't compute in my mind either, but that's what my friend said.

His rationale is that if Noah hadn't drunk the wine at all, he wouldn't have gotten drunk.

I think that's a moderation argument not an abstention argument, but what do I know?

Meanwhile, I'm having a delicious glass of red wine right now!

LondonLisa · February 2014

I agree with PP- I hate to say it but I think this is some fundamental discord in your life approaches and religion. Religion, lifestyle etc is something that cannot be compromised upon unless BOTH parties are willing to meet half way. It sounds like he sees himself as the "leader" of the household and expects you to be submissive. What happens when you have children and you disagree on how to raise them? What happens if you don't like the church he selected? Are you going to be put down everytime you would like a glass of wine with dinner? Are you not going to friend's houses for dinner if they serve wine with it? etc etc

I think you guys should speak to a counselor and really discuss how you see your future life, religion, children etc. I would be wary of going to a pastor, as religion is the source of your disconnect so they may be biased one way or the other. You need to ask yourselves the tough questions and really see if he is willing to compromise on things.

Your post raised major red flags and I would get it sorted now instead of waiting until after the wedding and being stuck. I'm sorry you are going through this.

edandy · February 2014

I didn't read all of it, but if you two can't come to terms over religious differences and are arguing about it then you need to sort that out BEFORE getting married. You both need to decide what sort of things you want out of life and how you want to live it. Normally I wouldn't worry about fights but when it comes down to religious differences it affects more than the alcohol at your wedding. It affects a lot of things. Please work it out before you seal the deal.

FiancB · February 2014

Vivandiere8 said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

ReturnOfKuus said:

I would think that preferring the old testament to the new would make you Jewish, but what do I know?

I would think so, too, but the evangelical pastor friend of mine of whom I asked this has never been able to sufficiently explain to me why Noah trumps Jesus.

And here I have always thought the story about Noah was about not getting drunk, and not disrespecting your father even if he is drunk. There wasn't anything in that story forbidding the drinking of wine. I mean by that logic we shouldn't eat fruit (because of Adam and Eve), or get married, have sex, have kids, or ride on donkeys, because there are too many stories in the Bible of people messing up when involving those things...

I've heard the "Jesus really made grape juice argument"... Which is kind of weird when the head waiter is so confused as to why the groom would save the best wine/grape juice for last when he should have served it first. And that it was apparently going to be such a huge embarrassment when they ran out of the wine/grape juice too son. From knowing the nature of these drinks... kind of sounds like they were talking about wine.

I guess I will have to find someone who thinks this way and have a friendly little debate about it because it just doesn't quite compute in my mind.

Well, we probably shouldn't ride donkeys, I mean it's kind of uncomfortable and they are usually little and smell kind of funny.

Seriously though I don't get it either. If Jesus can turn water into grape juice and he's God and all that, is it so hard to believe he can turn water into some nicely aged wine?

Maybe I'm just biased since I think a life without wine is no life at all.

futureallen2015 · February 2014

Thank you all for your input!! I agree that this does go beyond wedding planning, however, we have discussed many things from raising children to what church we would want to go to and even some finanical investments we want to make together. Like I said, I am a Christian too but yes he would probably qualify as a fundie as one poster mentioned. We have had our differences and discussed ways that we can compromise on future things. I am cool with that.

However, when it comes to the wedding he seems to be tooo uptight. I think for him it is all about the perception of things. He is a leader in his church so he feels as though maybe it makes him look like a hypocrite if he does anything that goes against the principles of his religion. So, yes, he is a bit conservative, which I like to an extent. HOWEVER... He was also a frat boy and continues to be very involved with the fraternity. So, he was involved in the parties and all the things frat boys do except extreme things such as getting drunk or sleeping around, etc. So, he has a lighter, fun side to him but again I think it is the perception.

We have talked since I posted this and it seems that he is loosening up a tad bit as he got into an argument with one of his CHRISTIAN friends about the same subject!! His friend is similar to him. They are in the same frat, has a leadership position in the church, devout Christian his whole life. I literally laughed my butt off and am glad that he is starting to get his panties out of a bunch.

short+sassy · February 2014

Glad to hear you all have discussed religion and raising children, because I was also getting some red flags from the original post.

On the specific items you mentioned, if one person has a strong aversion to alcohol at their wedding, that is an issue I could understand and give in on (though it sounds like he is softening). However, I feel differently about the music. Music is personal preferences and for a person to insist that only the music THEY like is played is very selfish and ridiculous. It's one thing to insist on no inappropriate music being played, but there is certainly tons of secular music to choose from that does not fall in that category.

I hear ya on the finances. But, to be fair, he didn't say, "I'll only pay half," he asked you your opinion on if things should be split 50/50 or if he should put in more. I realize it would have felt better if he had just offered to pay more since he makes more, but this may have just been his way of bringing up the subject with you.

OnionBreath · February 2014

Will you be happy if you have a dry wedding?
Will you be happy if you his song selection?

Does one mean more to you than the other?

Will your guests stay if you have neither? (Honestly, if I went to a wedding that had no alcohol and started blaring Christian music, I'd do my best to stay long enough for the cake and then I'd be out. ).

Perhaps a compromise is to have a dry wedding and a mixture of songs.

Or can you have spiked punch and non-alcoholic punch available? This way the theme of the wedding isn't the alcohol?

The Christians I know drink alcohol and listen to non-Christian music too. I think he's being unreasonable if he can't compromise. If he's unwilling to compromise on this, what happens in the future when you have a more important decision to make?

1st Official Argument w/ FI? Am I wrong?

Re: 1st Official Argument w/ FI? Am I wrong?

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