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Chit Chat

NWR: I finally sent a "come to Jesus" email (vent-y and long)

JCbride2015JCbride2015 member
5000 Comments 500 Love Its Second Anniversary First Answer
edited March 2014 in Chit Chat
I haven't posted about this much, but I'm currently partnered with the world's laziest law student on a very important and time-sensitive project.  It's for our law clinic and we have a real client-- nothing about this is practice, it's very real.  We are preparing our client for a very important hearing next Tuesday.

She is constantly late, turns in the bare minimum of work, is unresponsive to emails/texts/phone calls, and cancels or reschedules important meetings at the last minute.  She has a list of excuses as long as her arm.  My prof and I have both talked to her about it gently, to no avail.

Well, the past day or two was really the final straw.  She turned in this completely shoddy document, late.  The prof emailed both of us to say it wasn't enough and she asked for a list of other documents.  My partner was MIA all morning.  Finally I just picked up the slack and did what I could.

I called her around noon and she was vague about what she was doing all morning.  Then she emailed me to say she forgot to mention on the phone that she can't get much work done this week because she has a paper due tomorrow (fair enough) and two banquets to attend.  I lost my fucking shit.  Really?  Fine, take tonight off and do your paper.  But you can't get "much" work done all week because you have two banquets to attend?

I swear I heard Knottie voices in my head saying it was time for a come to Jesus talk.  I emailed her and I just told her, we are all busy but time management is a skill you just have to learn.  I have a lot of stuff on my plate (academic stuff, unlike her social events).  Heck, I'm the Notes editor for my law journal and our notes competition is running this week!  It's the busiest week of the year for me!  But I just DO IT, because we have a client.

She was not very receptive.  She got sort of passive-aggressive.  Then: the paper magically isn't due tomorrow after all, it's due next week so she should have more time.

And the cherry on top.  After all of this, in our meeting with our prof this afternoon, Prof asks if we can turn around a doc by tonight to send to the client.  Partner says that she can't start it until 9pm because she has to go to a basketball game and the party at the bar before the game starts at 6pm.  You should have seen my prof's face.  It was hilarious.  I told my partner 9pm was too late and we need to just get it done before she goes to the game, then the prof added that "there will be plenty of celebration at the game, you don't need to pre-game too."

At least I got this off my chest to her (and now to you ladies), and the professor seems to know what's going on.

Seriously?  How does somebody like this get into law school?  And a good one at that?

(Edited to remove some extraneous stuff, I realized this was way too long)
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"I'm not a rude bitch.  I'm ten rude bitches in a large coat."

Re: NWR: I finally sent a "come to Jesus" email (vent-y and long)

  • I'm shocked! She should be kicked out for this. Good luck with everything; I know it will all come together based on your hard work and commitment!

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  • I know some REALLY dumb people who are super book-smart and test very well. A few of them went to medical school, law school, and quite a few who became teachers (think Cameron Diaz in Bad Teacher). If I ever win the lottery, I'm buying an island somewhere and getting away from all teh stupidz.
    ~*~*~*~*~

  • A lot of people get into law schools like that, because you don't need a lot of time management to get through undergrad and do ok on the LSAT.  If you have resources, it's even easier.  

    Sadly, there are lawyers who act like this too.  I can't tell you how many clients have walked through my door with jacked up cases because their previous counsel couldn't get it together and properly work the case, either because they were lazy or disorganized.

    On the bright side, it's good that your prof is recognizing what's going on.  It's also good that you are dealing with this.  This won't be the last time in your career that you have to work with a crappy partner.  It's good practice.  
  • We actually had a girl at my store not show up for work.  Which is not very unusual as I work with a lot of lazy people who don't have their shit together.  When one of the managers got her on the phone hours after her shift had been scheduled to start, her excuse was her alarm hadn't gone off for her 2pm shift and she didn't wake up on her own because she had been out partying with her friends the night before and got shitfaced.  Who tells their boss this? *shakes head*
  • ew, that would piss me off.  I would be very concerned that my professional advancement could  be effected by someone else's lack of responsibility and hope that your professor is helping you get through this crappy experience.  Is it an to just do it yourself? I am sure that would suck, but at least it gets done and you do not have to stress about her.  Seems like she has had plenty of opportunities to fix her mistakes and is not taking it seriously.  I am sure you would love to go pre-game at a bar and attend a basketball game but NO you are getting your work your done, like she should be.  People like that piss me off so badly!!   The professor needs to have a come to jesus talk with her--maybe law school is not for her!  It is one thing if she wants to ruin her career, but yours should not be effected, and right now it is.  Unfortunately there will always be people like that, so yes you have to deal with it and it probably will not be the last time you have to, but I sure hope the professor and school know what kind of student she is and you can get a new partner soon.  
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    Anniversary
  • Geesh... I would be so pissed.
  • A lot of people get into law schools like that, because you don't need a lot of time management to get through undergrad and do ok on the LSAT.  If you have resources, it's even easier.  

    Sadly, there are lawyers who act like this too.  I can't tell you how many clients have walked through my door with jacked up cases because their previous counsel couldn't get it together and properly work the case, either because they were lazy or disorganized.

    On the bright side, it's good that your prof is recognizing what's going on.  It's also good that you are dealing with this.  This won't be the last time in your career that you have to work with a crappy partner.  It's good practice.  
    The bolded is so true.  There are so many book-smart people here whose parents support them and paid for expensive prep classes.  I only prepped for the LSAT with a book, went to a #20-ish school, was bored and got straight As, then transferred to my current school which is very highly ranked.  The people here are nerdier, but not necessarily smarter.  Mostly I just think they were able to achieve through LSAT prep classes what it took me my whole 1L year to prove.  Makes me sort of bitter.

    And yeah this girl is well-off and I don't think she's worked a day in her life.
    erinlin25 said:
    ew, that would piss me off.  I would be very concerned that my professional advancement could  be effected by someone else's lack of responsibility and hope that your professor is helping you get through this crappy experience.  Is it an to just do it yourself? I am sure that would suck, but at least it gets done and you do not have to stress about her.  Seems like she has had plenty of opportunities to fix her mistakes and is not taking it seriously.  I am sure you would love to go pre-game at a bar and attend a basketball game but NO you are getting your work your done, like she should be.  People like that piss me off so badly!!   The professor needs to have a come to jesus talk with her--maybe law school is not for her!  It is one thing if she wants to ruin her career, but yours should not be effected, and right now it is.  Unfortunately there will always be people like that, so yes you have to deal with it and it probably will not be the last time you have to, but I sure hope the professor and school know what kind of student she is and you can get a new partner soon.  
    Unfortunately it's a semester-long project and we are partnered until late April.  It's an ongoing process so it's not just a single thing I can get done on my own.  There are definitely times like this morning I've just bitten the bullet and done things myself, but I still have to work with her.  And I'm also concerned that if I just steamroll over her and do it all myself, I will end up looking like I'm in the wrong for freezing her out.

    Thanks for the encouragement, everybody.  It's just one more in a long line of learning experiences during work and law school...
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    "I'm not a rude bitch.  I'm ten rude bitches in a large coat."

  • Definitely had a few partners like that when I was in school. There was this one kid in my French class who would go out to the club and rage every Thursday night, then consistently leave during our Friday morning quiz to go puke, and then he couldn't figure out why I didn't want to work with him on the final project.

    Good for you for standing up to her. Unfortunately some people just don't get it, and we have to be satisfied with knowing that the real world is going to bite them in the ass.
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  • That sucks.  I wish I could tell you that it gets better after law school, but it won't.  There are plenty of lazy lawyers who are very good at passing off their work and/or passing of your work as theirs. 

    The good news is that no one can get away with this type of behavior forever.  It looks like this person is already starting to tarnish her reputation as a lawyer before she even is one.  Keep your chin up, it sounds like your professor is aware of the problem--I would use that to your advantage.  To the extent possible, try to clearly divide up work in front of your professor (either in meetings or via email).  Make it clear what tasks are yours and what tasks are your partners.  Without violating any client confidentiality, can you share generally what the case is about and what your role is?  
    Don't worry guys, I have the Wedding Police AND the Whambulance on speed dial!
  • @NYCBruin Yes I can give an overview.  Our client is a public charter school and we are working for them simultaneously on two tasks:
    1) Due process for student discipline hearings, using technology to streamline all the paperwork and ensure the hearing officer does everything correctly.  We're building a program to walk the hearing officer through the steps and generate all paperwork.
    2) The urgent thing that just came up is that the school just found out their co-location plan is being changed to reduce their classroom space, so we are working on preparing them for the public hearing next week to fight it.

    We are pretty much responsible for doing everything; our professor is mostly just the go-between and gives everything a final look.  

    We just made an actual written pseudo-contract agreement, which details some things like timeliness and responsiveness, and posted it to the shared class folder.  We also agreed we are going to keep a running Wiki page of which tasks belong to which person, and when those tasks are due.  All of this will be in writing and can easily be checked by the prof.  I'm planning to document the hell out of everything we are each supposed to do, so the lines are very clear.

    The prof suggested the written agreement and Wiki, and I noticed none of the previous teams had similar docs in the class folder.  I think it's because the prof sees how flaky this girl is.
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    "I'm not a rude bitch.  I'm ten rude bitches in a large coat."

  • @NYCBruin Yes I can give an overview.  Our client is a public charter school and we are working for them simultaneously on two tasks:
    1) Due process for student discipline hearings, using technology to streamline all the paperwork and ensure the hearing officer does everything correctly.  We're building a program to walk the hearing officer through the steps and generate all paperwork.
    2) The urgent thing that just came up is that the school just found out their co-location plan is being changed to reduce their classroom space, so we are working on preparing them for the public hearing next week to fight it.

    We are pretty much responsible for doing everything; our professor is mostly just the go-between and gives everything a final look.  

    We just made an actual written pseudo-contract agreement, which details some things like timeliness and responsiveness, and posted it to the shared class folder.  We also agreed we are going to keep a running Wiki page of which tasks belong to which person, and when those tasks are due.  All of this will be in writing and can easily be checked by the prof.  I'm planning to document the hell out of everything we are each supposed to do, so the lines are very clear.

    The prof suggested the written agreement and Wiki, and I noticed none of the previous teams had similar docs in the class folder.  I think it's because the prof sees how flaky this girl is.
    Sounds like you have the right idea.  I would keep a running record of whose responsible for what and hopefully your partner will step up her game on her own and/or your prof will realize based on the Wiki page that your partner is not doing her job and take actions herself.  

    I would ride it out this way for a bit and see if anything changes. 
    Don't worry guys, I have the Wedding Police AND the Whambulance on speed dial!
  • Calling a few things JC-

    1) If this is how she prioritizes things, she will not pass the bar exam (I'm assuming she's planning on taking the NY/NJ barzam) as she will not put in the time and effort required to handle that bitch.

    2) If she does manage to pass, she'll get herself disbarred within 3 years, (leaving room for warnings and suspensions) due to malpractice, plus land herself several lawsuits

     

    I know how bad things can be, JC, PM me for my email address should you need further law school specific venting!

  • People like this truly amaze me with how tight the job market is these days. I don't know much about the process of becoming a lawyer but this sounds like a good opportunity for some brag points and if I were here I would be bending over backwards trying to set the stage for a good letter of recommendation or reference out of this professor and to do well with this case and she is blowing it. 

    I mean really, a basketball game? At least make up a fake part time job. 
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  • Calling a few things JC-

    1) If this is how she prioritizes things, she will not pass the bar exam (I'm assuming she's planning on taking the NY/NJ barzam) as she will not put in the time and effort required to handle that bitch.

    2) If she does manage to pass, she'll get herself disbarred within 3 years, (leaving room for warnings and suspensions) due to malpractice, plus land herself several lawsuits

     

    I know how bad things can be, JC, PM me for my email address should you need further law school specific venting!

    Eh I know plenty of lazy people who basically did nothing all summer, crammed for two weeks and passed the bar.  The bar exam is basically an exercise in memorization, so to the extent that comes naturally for this lady, she may very well pass with little effort.

    Like I said, there are unfortunately many unprofessional attorneys out there practicing.  She may not get disbarred, but she is already developing a reputation for being lazy.  It will catch up to her at some point.  Depending on who JC's professor is, it's quite possible that the partner has already done irreparable harm to her career.  As annoying as this is JC, this is a good learning experience and an opportunity to shine in front of your professor.  
    Don't worry guys, I have the Wedding Police AND the Whambulance on speed dial!
  • @NYCBruin and @Chipmunk415 I really appreciate your insight as working attorneys.  This girl is a 2L and I'm pretty sure she's never had a real job, so she might get a rude awakening at her summer firm.

    She actually reminds me a lot of the girl in my summer class who was the only one no-offered in the entire firm, which hadn't happened in several years.  Nervous giggling, unprofessional attire, can't keep up with deadlines.
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    "I'm not a rude bitch.  I'm ten rude bitches in a large coat."

  • I've been practicing law for a little over 8 years.  If she continues to work that way in the real world, she's not going to be working very long.  Hello disbarment. 

    But take a deep breath, it will get better (says the former notes editor who also simultaneously had to deal with real clients/cases and a full class load). Do what you need to do to represent your client right and do well in your clinic. The rest will sort itself out.
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