The face of suicide . . . (heavy subject matter )

SmileDamnit · April 2014

I posted a few months ago about a missing woman case that I became rather obsessed with (here). The devastating outcome was that she was found dead, having hanged herself in a tree. I'm not sure why I became so invested in the outcome - I didn't know this girl, but she lived in Denver for a bit, she was close to my age and seemed to live a life full of adventure - so for some reason, I captivated by her life (and ultimately, her death). It made me really angry to find out she committed suicide and in hindsight, I think it's because I just couldn't comprehend it.

Anyway, a new article (here) was posted today on the UP Foundation FB page. It tells the beautifully tragic story of Josh & Leanne. If you've got a few minutes, I highly recommend reading it. I don't think I'll ever truly understand suicide, but her story has helped raise my awareness of the mental health issues that can lead to it.

SBmini · April 2014

That's so sad! My sister's best friend committed suicide a number of years back, so it's an issue I'm pretty close with. Having battled my own dark demons as a teen- I think it is very difficult for a lot of people to understand what goes through the minds of people who suffer from depression. The feeling that it will never get better is so overwhelming, and so few people understand which makes you feel that much more alone. But it does get better! With work, and love and sometimes medication, it does get better. And it is so very sad that Leanne and countless others didn't have the opportunity to see that.

jenna8984 · April 2014

Wow. I had not heard about that story over here on the East Coast. That is so, so sad. She appeared to have everything, I'm sure everyone who knew her was jealous of her travels and thought she had the perfect life. That is very eye opening.

SmileDamnit · April 2014

SBmini said: That's so sad! My sister's best friend committed suicide a number of years back, so it's an issue I'm pretty close with. Having battled my own dark demons as a teen- I think it is very difficult for a lot of people to understand what goes through the minds of people who suffer from depression. The feeling that it will never get better is so overwhelming, and so few people understand which makes you feel that much more alone. But it does get better! With work, and love and sometimes medication, it does get better. And it is so very sad that Leanne and countless others didn't have the opportunity to see that.
I'm sorry that you've had to personally deal with it. I simply can not imagine or even pretend to comprehend what it's like to walk in those shoes (both in loosing a loved one & suffering from depression). I'm glad to hear that you're in a better, safe place now. Fuck those demons!

jenna8984 said:

Wow. I had not heard about that story over here on the East Coast. That is so, so sad. She appeared to have everything, I'm sure everyone who knew her was jealous of her travels and thought she had the perfect life. That is very eye opening.

For me, too! And for a lot of her friends and acquaintances, as well. I went to a 5K event held in her honor a couple of months ago and heard so many people talk about how shocked they were b/c she seemed so happy, life seemed so perfect. It was obviously far from perfect. Just too sad.

**UGH - stupid formatting. Sorry!**

cupcait927 · April 2014

If I start in on this topic, I will end up writing a novel so I will just say that, from personal experience, it is not a selfish decision in the eyes of the person who's suffering. It's far, FAR from being selfish. I hear too many people say that people who commit suicide are selfish and I can guarantee you that they are not. This is an incredibly sad story but probably far more common that a lot of people realize.

SmileDamnit · April 2014

@shrekspeare - Yep. They had recently returned from a nearly two year trip around the world & extensively blogged about it along the way.

ckel24 said:

If I start in on this topic, I will end up writing a novel so I will just say that, from personal experience, it is not a selfish decision in the eyes of the person who's suffering. It's far, FAR from being selfish. I hear too many people say that people who commit suicide are selfish and I can guarantee you that they are not. This is an incredibly sad story but probably far more common that a lot of people realize.

I think that's where people get stuck. I'll be honest in that my initial, gut reaction was that if felt selfish. But in trying to understand it more, and in what I know about Leanne & her "story" (for lack of a better word), I honestly think she believed her act to be a very selfless one. And I absolutely agree that it's far more common than a lot of people realize, which is why I think it's so important to share the story and open the dialogue.

cupcait927 · April 2014

Niccirf said:

@shrekspeare - Yep. They had recently returned from a nearly two year trip around the world & extensively blogged about it along the way.

ckel24 said:

If I start in on this topic, I will end up writing a novel so I will just say that, from personal experience, it is not a selfish decision in the eyes of the person who's suffering. It's far, FAR from being selfish. I hear too many people say that people who commit suicide are selfish and I can guarantee you that they are not. This is an incredibly sad story but probably far more common that a lot of people realize.

I think that's where people get stuck. I'll be honest in that my initial, gut reaction was that if felt selfish. But in trying to understand it more, and in what I know about Leanne & her "story" (for lack of a better word), I honestly think she believed her act to be a very selfless one. And I absolutely agree that it's far more common than a lot of people realize, which is why I think it's so important to share the story and open the dialogue.

FI and I have had heated arguments about this. He grew up with a cousin that he was very close with. This cousin appeared to have the best life - had a good job, lived in California, traveled, was always happy and upbeat. And one day he killed himself. FI is still mad about it to this day; he says that his cousin was so selfish and FI is so angry with him. I used to try and tell him that not everybody is as happy on the inside as they appear on the outside and he still didn't understand. I finally got really honest with him one night and broke through to him. I helped him realize that when someone commits suicide, they honestly believe they are doing the most selfless thing that they can. They are trying to protect themselves and protects other. The people they leave behind are allowed to be sad, to be hurt, to wonder what they did wrong and what they could've done to help but to be angry at the person who died is the wrong emotion. I'm glad that you were able to see past the "selfish" side of it, which I do understand is a valid first reaction, and see suicide for what it really is and why people do it.

pinkcow13 · April 2014

I remember you posting about this story, and reading about it. I think the problem with suicide is that there is such a stigma associated with mental illness. I think that as a society, we don't believe that someone is sick unless we see it. It's the same with postpartum depression or postpartum psychosis. I too do not think that a person who commits suicide is selfish. It may seem like a selfish act to a normal person, but we have no idea what inner demons others wrestle with. I'm sorry for anyone that has dealt with this in any form.

themuffinman16 · April 2014

That is so awful. My heart goes out to her family. My grandma committed suicide on Christmas Eve. She was such a selfless person. After she took her life I realized suicide is not a selfish act. People are so bogged down in the depths of depression, that all logic and hope escape them. Their depression will not let them see anything beyond their problems, and it seems like there are no solutions. DO whatever it takes to get a handle on depression, talk to a therapist, take medication, if necessary. I firmly believe if depressed people knew how much they would be missed, they never would do such a thing. Sending love and hope out to anyone facing depression, and anyone grieving the loss of someone who lost the battle with depression.

natswild · April 2014

I've been there twice, the first time I was suicidal for 10 years (12-22), the second was for 4 years (32-36). I didn't show any outward signs that I was suicidal, until I tried the first time. I had a completely useless counselor after that-my second visit with her I was in one of my extremely rare manic phases, so I was "cured"-considering I was still suicidal for 7 years after that, she was certainly full of shit, but that made things more difficult at home, as my family no longer believed that I was suicidal, and that I just wanted attention (particularly my mother).

One of the biggest problems with being suicidal, in my experience, is that there were few counselors who took me seriously. There was only one teacher in all of my high school years who recognized that I was in trouble.

It totally drives me around the bend when people refer to suicide, or attempted suicide, as selfish. The only time I consider it selfish is when one part of a couple says something along the lines of "if you leave, I will kill myself". That is being extremely manipulative, and they are not necessarily suicidal, but more seeking attention. My brother's ex was like that, as is his current girlfriend.

Having been suicidal, I know intimately about just how bleak the world seems, and that it never feels like it will get better. In my case, the first time, which I gradually pulled myself out of, was caused by sexual abuse, severe bullying, and an extremely domineering mother. The second time was having the memories come back full force and being unable to cope with all of the feelings, and having come face to face with my abuser more than once.

It wasn't until I moved and found a different counselor, that I was finally able to get past it, and finally conquered the suicidal feelings. Since then, I've certainly felt depressed, but that is entirely different from being suicidal. There definitely needs to be more awareness, not just with the general public, but also, and maybe especially, with the mental health field.

*apologies about the novel*

SBmini · April 2014

Suicide is both selfish and selfless. What it is is backwards. You don't want to worry people about your feelings while you are suffering through depression, so you selflessly bottle it all up. Only to turn around and hurt them all by ending your life. Neither action is healthy or appropriate. Being selfish and calling attention to your problems in order to get the help you need is a far better outcome for everyone.

At least- this is how it was for me. I kept everything bottled up because I didn't want to be a bourdon. But what kept me from ever going through with it was that I didn't want to hurt my loved ones.

natswild · April 2014

It's very easy to look at it as being selfish if you've never been suicidal, easy to say you should do this, why didn't you do that, it's not a big deal. Trust me, I've heard it all. The pain you feel when you're suicidal is all-encompassing, literally nothing else can get through. You literally feel like the world will be better off without you (even though that's never the case).

That being said, I am very glad that I didn't succeed in my attempt, there's so much that I have experienced that I would not have otherwise.

SmileDamnit · April 2014

natswild said:

It's very easy to look at it as being selfish if you've never been suicidal, easy to say you should do this, why didn't you do that, it's not a big deal. Trust me, I've heard it all. The pain you feel when you're suicidal is all-encompassing, literally nothing else can get through. You literally feel like the world will be better off without you (even though that's never the case).

That being said, I am very glad that I didn't succeed in my attempt, there's so much that I have experienced that I would not have otherwise.

To me, it seems like suicide is an irrational reaction (solution? decision?) made in an effort to stop debilitating pain. Pain felt personally and/or the projected pain (burden?) felt by loved ones. I think everyone would agree that it is never the right choice, but what people struggle to understand is that the suicidal person doesn't feel like there is any other choice to be made.

Learning more about it, and hearing about the though processes of those who have experienced it (both personally or by way of a loved one) reminds me not to judge anyone else's reality - good OR bad. Painful realities are often covered by happy facades.

CMGragain · April 2014

When someone commits suicide, they are not thinking about other people. They are in tremendous pain, and they want the pain to stop. That is all.

cupcait927 · April 2014

When someone commits suicide, they are not thinking about other people. They are in tremendous pain, and they want the pain to stop. That is all.

That's not true for everyone. When I thought about it and when my family members thought about it, it was because they were thinking about other people. You don't want to be a burden to anyone and you convince yourself that everyone else will be okay even if you're gone, that they will be better even. It's not fair to make sweeping generalizations such as you did.

FiancB · May 2014

That's so sad. I felt nauseous reading it and was tearing up by the end. I think it's great that he's raising this awareness though. It sounds like she was the last person people would think would do this, and that's important.

Suicide is a subject that's really... prominent? to me. I dealt with depression and know so many others that have. I just found out a good friend of mine recently attempted- she has borderline personality, and from what I understand she blacked out and wasn't even aware of what she was doing. 3/5 of our groomsmen had fathers that committed suicide, and one of those groomsmen FI helped stop from killing himself.

There's a girl I never met, but was friends with the people I made friends with freshman year of high school. She killed herself in the 8th grade.

I never hold it against people that do this. It really is impossible to see past your own pain and all too easy to believe that people are better off without you.

ETA: a lot of people do have trouble coping after a return from a trip, especially to third world countries.

CMGragain · May 2014

Perhaps my thought didn't come across as I meant them. A person who is thinking about suicide or attempts it is in tremendous pain. This is foremost in their minds. They do often rationalize that people will be better off without them, but their motivation is to escape pain, either physical or emotional, or both. Sometimes they want to escape pain in the future. This happens a lot in senior communities. My late mother lived in a beautiful high rise building for seniors, and suicide was definitely a problem, especially with the men who didn't want to face Alzheimer's or Cancer. Depression, which is a physical disability, is also linked with suicide.

SmileDamnit · May 2014

@FiancB: I cried reading it at work today. FI & I were just talking about them last night for some reason so she was already at the forefront of my mind. It feels a little silly to say the article brought me some closure (because really, who am I to need closure from the death of a stranger??), but it did.

pinkcow13 · May 2014

Niccirf said:

@FiancB: I cried reading it at work today. FI & I were just talking about them last night for some reason so she was already at the forefront of my mind. It feels a little silly to say the article brought me some closure (because really, who am I to need closure from the death of a stranger??), but it did.

I know how you feel. I read the news every single day, and follow major stories (the Casey Anthony trial, Laci Peterson,etc) from inception. I have always been like this, not sure why. I just become fascinated with certain cases. I think because I feel that it could happen to me or someone I know. I read a few books on the Lacy Peterson case, but the one her mom wrote brought me "closure." I think sometimes as human beings we become attached to certain people or situations, even if we are not directly involved. At least in my case, I can see myself or my best friend in these women (more so the victims, not the presumed killers), so I think it affects me more.

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