Pre Marital Counseling PPD RANT

Re: Pre Marital Counseling PPD RANT

• hikebikebemerry member

  

  May 2014

  Breaking one of the Ten Commandments by lying to your parents is a great way to start out a God-based marriage!

  
  

  You get a gold star for holding back!

  

  
  

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• CMGragain member

  

  May 2014

  I am curious how the priest responded to this.  I believe that Canon Law does not allow for church PPDs.  A convalidation is the best that they can hope for, and that is not easily granted.
  

  

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• banana468 member

  

  May 2014

  You didn't ask how they passed the church questionnaire asking if they were married?
  
  We weren't allowed to tie the knot without our marriage license. If the church isn't aware of this you're going to need popcorn.

  Report8 Reply
• banana468 member

  

  May 2014

  Convalidations are OK in the church but they aren't to be viewed as a big wedding with the white dress and they need to be addressed as one and not a wedding.

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• HisGirlFriday13 member

  

  May 2014

  Also, convalidations often have a separate kind of pre-marital counselling that includes asking why you didn't get married in the Church and why you want to now.
  
  At least In my diocese, convalidations are difficult to obtain and require a lot more work than just a regular wedding.

  

  
  

  
  

  I'm gonna go with 'not my circus, not my monkeys.'

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• Jen4948 member

  

  May 2014

  I wonder what the priest or whoever was conducting the counseling had to say about the PPD.
  

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• [Deleted User] member

  

  May 2014

  It was a group class that is sort of a weekend course- the lady wasn't a priest but didn't really comment which surprised me...

  
  

  I suppose it could be a convalidation but she specifically said their doing their "real marriage" down there and that getting married before was all "hush hush" those were the two things that raised my eyebrows...

  
  

  They're doing it in S. Florida so I probably won't hear anymore about it FI was sitting next to me, he looked straight at me when she said that because he most definitely KNOWS how I feel about it.
  

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• itslizzyC member

  

  May 2014

  It sounds like its not a PPD but a convalidation. The church and devout Catholics do not see or recognize a civil marriage as a real marriage. The Sacrament is a necessity for it to be considered "real".
  
  My FI's parents eloped and it was hush hush for a while because they knew family wouldn't be happy because of their elopement or even recognize their wedding as real. Obviously a few months later the secret came out because lying as pointed out by PP is also against the Catholic faith. They eventually had their marriage convalidated. It was an extremely difficult process and very involved. There were tons of meetings and interviews with the priest but they also had to attend a group pre-Cana class with your typical engaged couple. As faithful Catholics they acknowledge that as their real marriage when they received the grace of the Sacrament. Cannon law 1157 states that a person must recognize that their original marriage or civil union was invalid in order to be granted convalidation.
  
  This typically does not include a reception or registry or bridesmaids because by definition when you receive a convalidation the Church and God then view your marriage as "real" or valid AND valid from the original union realizing you and forgiving you from any sin due to living out an invalid marriage. So it then acknowledges the fact that they have been married for X amount of years. See cannon law 1161. So you already had your party or if you eloped you chose not to have one.
  
  So the fact that she said they are having their real marriage not their real wedding only further makes me believe that this is the case.
  
  Sorry for the long post! But I do love my faith but by no means am I an expert! And I totally agree that if she decides to have a reception for this...even though most priests and dioceses would highly discourage it she would in fact be having a PPD.
  
  
  
  

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• Sugargirl1019 member

  

  May 2014

  itslizzyC said:

  It sounds like its not a PPD but a convalidation. The church and devout Catholics do not see or recognize a civil marriage as a real marriage. The Sacrament is a necessity for it to be considered "real".
  
  My FI's parents eloped and it was hush hush for a while because they knew family wouldn't be happy because of their elopement or even recognize their wedding as real. Obviously a few months later the secret came out because lying as pointed out by PP is also against the Catholic faith. They eventually had their marriage convalidated. It was an extremely difficult process and very involved. There were tons of meetings and interviews with the priest but they also had to attend a group pre-Cana class with your typical engaged couple. As faithful Catholics they acknowledge that as their real marriage when they received the grace of the Sacrament. Cannon law 1157 states that a person must recognize that their original marriage or civil union was invalid in order to be granted convalidation.
  
  This typically does not include a reception or registry or bridesmaids because by definition when you receive a convalidation the Church and God then view your marriage as "real" or valid AND valid from the original union realizing you and forgiving you from any sin due to living out an invalid marriage. So it then acknowledges the fact that they have been married for X amount of years. See cannon law 1161. So you already had your party or if you eloped you chose not to have one.
  
  So the fact that she said they are having their real marriage not their real wedding only further makes me believe that this is the case.
  
  Sorry for the long post! But I do love my faith but by no means am I an expert! And I totally agree that if she decides to have a reception for this...even though most priests and dioceses would highly discourage it she would in fact be having a PPD.
  
  
  
  

  I thuink you did an excellent job explaining that situation! You and HisGirlFriday will get along well.

        
  

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• VulgarGirl member

  

  May 2014

  I'm pretty glad this thread exists because friend of a friend...lets call her BF (bitch face), got hitched 8 years ago in a civil ceremony in the UK but decided to forgo a church wedding over there because none of her friends or family would've been able to come. Then BF and her husband move back to the states and she plans a big huge blowout PPD. And keeps saying it's because it has to be in the eyes of the church (they're Catholic) for it be real. But based on what @itslizzyc said...she might've broken some rules there. Because yes, there was a wedding party, a registry, a huge reception, and she said on more then one occasion this was her wedding. In fact she still says they're "newlyweds" and that they've been married 8 years. And I'm like sweetie, either you just got married or you've been married 8 years, not both. 

  
  

  She likes to pass a lot of judgement. A lot. She's been encouraging her best friend to have a PPD (said best friend says no way she needs that money to buy a house and it sounds stupid), she tells me I won't really be married because 1) I'm not getting married in a church and 2) our state doesn't recognize same sex marriage and 3) neither does her church (of which I don't belong) so she likes to repeat to me we won't "really" be married. I like to tell her to fuck off. 

  
  

  So now, I'm gonna side eye her big to do because apparently, while having a convalidation would have been fine, dandy and necessary for their faith (which I respect, your faith is your faith and it's not my place to decide if it's right or wrong), the big to do with the reception and registry made it a PPD. 

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• KGold80 member

  

  May 2014

  MagicInk said:

  I'm pretty glad this thread exists because friend of a friend...lets call her BF (bitch face), got hitched 8 years ago in a civil ceremony in the UK but decided to forgo a church wedding over there because none of her friends or family would've been able to come. Then BF and her husband move back to the states and she plans a big huge blowout PPD. And keeps saying it's because it has to be in the eyes of the church (they're Catholic) for it be real. But based on what @itslizzyc said...she might've broken some rules there. Because yes, there was a wedding party, a registry, a huge reception, and she said on more then one occasion this was her wedding. In fact she still says they're "newlyweds" and that they've been married 8 years. And I'm like sweetie, either you just got married or you've been married 8 years, not both. 

  
  

  She likes to pass a lot of judgement. A lot. She's been encouraging her best friend to have a PPD (said best friend says no way she needs that money to buy a house and it sounds stupid), she tells me I won't really be married because 1) I'm not getting married in a church and 2) our state doesn't recognize same sex marriage and 3) neither does her church (of which I don't belong) so she likes to repeat to me we won't "really" be married. I like to tell her to fuck off. 

  
  

  So now, I'm gonna side eye her big to do because apparently, while having a convalidation would have been fine, dandy and necessary for their faith (which I respect, your faith is your faith and it's not my place to decide if it's right or wrong), the big to do with the reception and registry made it a PPD. 

  Holy shit. She actually said that to you? What a bitch.
  

  

  
  

  
  

  
  

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• sofakingmad member

  

  May 2014 edited May 2014

  But isn't a Civil Union different than an actual marriage?  At lease in IL, Civil Unions are only recognized by the state and not by the federal government.

  
  

  I have friends who have a Civil Union, but if they wanted to make their marriage official for federal purposes, they would still have to get married.  

  

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• VulgarGirl member

  

  May 2014

  KGold80 said:

  MagicInk said:

  I'm pretty glad this thread exists because friend of a friend...lets call her BF (bitch face), got hitched 8 years ago in a civil ceremony in the UK but decided to forgo a church wedding over there because none of her friends or family would've been able to come. Then BF and her husband move back to the states and she plans a big huge blowout PPD. And keeps saying it's because it has to be in the eyes of the church (they're Catholic) for it be real. But based on what @itslizzyc said...she might've broken some rules there. Because yes, there was a wedding party, a registry, a huge reception, and she said on more then one occasion this was her wedding. In fact she still says they're "newlyweds" and that they've been married 8 years. And I'm like sweetie, either you just got married or you've been married 8 years, not both. 

  
  

  She likes to pass a lot of judgement. A lot. She's been encouraging her best friend to have a PPD (said best friend says no way she needs that money to buy a house and it sounds stupid), she tells me I won't really be married because 1) I'm not getting married in a church and 2) our state doesn't recognize same sex marriage and 3) neither does her church (of which I don't belong) so she likes to repeat to me we won't "really" be married. I like to tell her to fuck off. 

  
  

  So now, I'm gonna side eye her big to do because apparently, while having a convalidation would have been fine, dandy and necessary for their faith (which I respect, your faith is your faith and it's not my place to decide if it's right or wrong), the big to do with the reception and registry made it a PPD. 

  Holy shit. She actually said that to you? What a bitch.
  

  Yup, not all at once though, just here and there. If I say "Oh for our wedding we're planning on booking Flock of Seagulls to play" she'll say "For your commitment ceremony, you aren't really getting married", or "After we get married we're thinking of honeymooning on the rings of Saturn" I get "But you won't really be married, so it's just a vacation". And she gets my shut up before I shut you up you dumb bitch face, then I ignore her and just keep on talking. 

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• VulgarGirl member

  

  May 2014

  DragonBlood13 said:

  But isn't a Civil Union different than an actual marriage?  At lease in IL, Civil Unions are only recognized by the state and not by the federal government.

  
  

  I have friends who have a Civil Union, but if they wanted to make their marriage official for federal purposes, they would still have to get married.  

  For gay people yes. But for straight people it usually means, married in a legally binding way but not done in a church or not by a priest/pastor/minister.

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• sofakingmad member

  

  May 2014 edited May 2014

  MagicInk said:

  DragonBlood13 said:

  But isn't a Civil Union different than an actual marriage?  At lease in IL, Civil Unions are only recognized by the state and not by the federal government.

  
  

  I have friends who have a Civil Union, but if they wanted to make their marriage official for federal purposes, they would still have to get married.  

  For gay people yes. But for straight people it usually means, married in a legally binding way but not done in a church or not by a priest/pastor/minister.

  My friends are straight and only had a Civil Union, as in the gay marriage kind.

  
  

  They did it for health insurance purposes, which is definitely eyeroll worthy.

  
  

  But in the end, they aren't technically married and would have to go to the courthouse again to sign the proper documents.

  
  

  I'm just trying to see if the OPs story is the same.

  

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• selenathegreat member

  

  May 2014

  My quick Googling reveals that civil unions for opposite-sex couples exist in six states in the US. Not in the South, or I'd have tried to get one.

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• grumbledore member

  

  May 2014

  I was reading this thread last night and turned to my FI and finally got around to asking - how the hell did his friend with the Catholic mass PPD a couple of years ago pull it off?

  
  

  Come to find out, he doesn't know all the details but did hear the priest and the bride's wife's mother having a heated argument right before the ceremony because he asked her for the marriage license and she told him, "Oh, that's all set, it's already been filed."  He was livid and didn't want to carry on with the ceremony, and apparently she threatened a lawsuit and he ended up giving in and going forward with the ceremony.
  

  
  

  So, I guess that's one way to get your Catholic mass PPD.  Just lie until it's possibly too late and then play the litigation card.

  
  

  In fairness, apparently FI's friend (the groom) didn't know any of this went down as she planned the entire wedding while he was in Iraq.

  
  

  

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• littlestmonkey member

  

  May 2014

  A civil ceremony in the UK would be the equivalent of a JoP wedding here

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• CrazyCatLady3 member

  

  May 2014

  selenathegreat said:

  My quick Googling reveals that civil unions for opposite-sex couples exist in six states in the US. Not in the South, or I'd have tried to get one.

  In NY, any couple (heterosexual or homosexual) can register as domestic partners to get on your partner's health insurance without being married.  Not sure if that's the same as a "civil union," but it's a similar concept.

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• sweetwisconsin member

  

  May 2014

  grumbledore said:

  I was reading this thread last night and turned to my FI and finally got around to asking - how the hell did his friend with the Catholic mass PPD a couple of years ago pull it off?

  
  

  Come to find out, he doesn't know all the details but did hear the priest and the bride's wife's mother having a heated argument right before the ceremony because he asked her for the marriage license and she told him, "Oh, that's all set, it's already been filed."  He was livid and didn't want to carry on with the ceremony, and apparently she threatened a lawsuit and he ended up giving in and going forward with the ceremony.
  

  
  

  So, I guess that's one way to get your Catholic mass PPD.  Just lie until it's possibly too late and then play the litigation card.

  
  

  In fairness, apparently FI's friend (the groom) didn't know any of this went down as she planned the entire wedding while he was in Iraq.

  I feel sorry for the Priest. Our church (Lutheran Missouri Synod) requires the license to be turned in to the chruch one week prior to the ceremony.

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• sofakingmad member

  

  May 2014

  scribe95 said:

  I don't think there is such a thing as a civil union for straight people. You either are married legally - signed the marriage certificate etc - or you are not. 

  Not in IL.  You can have a Civil Union between a heterosexual couple that is ONLY recognized in the state and not on the federal level.  

  
  

  http://www.illinoiscivilunions.com/
  

  
  

  This law is special because it does something that no other civil union law does. It permits all couples to enter into a civil union. That’s right, all couples—not just same sex couples, but opposite sex couples, too. Since there are only half a dozen other states which have civil union laws, we’re pretty special for just having a civil union law. But we’re extra special because only ours allows both gay and straight couples to form this kind of legal relationship.
  

  

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• HisGirlFriday13 member

  

  May 2014

  MagicInk said:

  I'm pretty glad this thread exists because friend of a friend...lets call her BF (bitch face), got hitched 8 years ago in a civil ceremony in the UK but decided to forgo a church wedding over there because none of her friends or family would've been able to come. Then BF and her husband move back to the states and she plans a big huge blowout PPD. And keeps saying it's because it has to be in the eyes of the church (they're Catholic) for it be real. But based on what @itslizzyc said...she might've broken some rules there. Because yes, there was a wedding party, a registry, a huge reception, and she said on more then one occasion this was her wedding. In fact she still says they're "newlyweds" and that they've been married 8 years. And I'm like sweetie, either you just got married or you've been married 8 years, not both. 

  
  

  She likes to pass a lot of judgement. A lot. She's been encouraging her best friend to have a PPD (said best friend says no way she needs that money to buy a house and it sounds stupid), she tells me I won't really be married because 1) I'm not getting married in a church and 2) our state doesn't recognize same sex marriage and 3) neither does her church (of which I don't belong) so she likes to repeat to me we won't "really" be married. I like to tell her to fuck off. 

  
  

  So now, I'm gonna side eye her big to do because apparently, while having a convalidation would have been fine, dandy and necessary for their faith (which I respect, your faith is your faith and it's not my place to decide if it's right or wrong), the big to do with the reception and registry made it a PPD. 

  As a practicing Catholic and a catechist, I would just like to say, your bitch-face friend is full of shit, can go DIAF, can suck my tit, and can kiss my lily-white Irish ass.
  
  Her convalidations means less than jack shit since she apparently missed the 'love thy neighbour' memo. Ask her about the log in her eye and see what she says.

  

  
  

  
  

  I'm gonna go with 'not my circus, not my monkeys.'

  Report6 Reply
• May14TXbride member

  

  May 2014

  MagicInk said:

  I'm pretty glad this thread exists because friend of a friend...lets call her BF (bitch face), got hitched 8 years ago in a civil ceremony in the UK but decided to forgo a church wedding over there because none of her friends or family would've been able to come. Then BF and her husband move back to the states and she plans a big huge blowout PPD. And keeps saying it's because it has to be in the eyes of the church (they're Catholic) for it be real. But based on what @itslizzyc said...she might've broken some rules there. Because yes, there was a wedding party, a registry, a huge reception, and she said on more then one occasion this was her wedding. In fact she still says they're "newlyweds" and that they've been married 8 years. And I'm like sweetie, either you just got married or you've been married 8 years, not both. 

  
  

  She likes to pass a lot of judgement. A lot. She's been encouraging her best friend to have a PPD (said best friend says no way she needs that money to buy a house and it sounds stupid), she tells me I won't really be married because 1) I'm not getting married in a church and 2) our state doesn't recognize same sex marriage and 3) neither does her church (of which I don't belong) so she likes to repeat to me we won't "really" be married. I like to tell her to fuck off. 

  
  

  So now, I'm gonna side eye her big to do because apparently, while having a convalidation would have been fine, dandy and necessary for their faith (which I respect, your faith is your faith and it's not my place to decide if it's right or wrong), the big to do with the reception and registry made it a PPD. 

   

   

   

  Hahahaha....I can't stop laughing at the bolded

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• hikebikebemerry member

  

  May 2014

  MagicInk said:

  I'm pretty glad this thread exists because friend of a friend...lets call her BF (bitch face), got hitched 8 years ago in a civil ceremony in the UK but decided to forgo a church wedding over there because none of her friends or family would've been able to come. Then BF and her husband move back to the states and she plans a big huge blowout PPD. And keeps saying it's because it has to be in the eyes of the church (they're Catholic) for it be real. But based on what @itslizzyc said...she might've broken some rules there. Because yes, there was a wedding party, a registry, a huge reception, and she said on more then one occasion this was her wedding. In fact she still says they're "newlyweds" and that they've been married 8 years. And I'm like sweetie, either you just got married or you've been married 8 years, not both. 

  
  

  She likes to pass a lot of judgement. A lot. She's been encouraging her best friend to have a PPD (said best friend says no way she needs that money to buy a house and it sounds stupid), she tells me I won't really be married because 1) I'm not getting married in a church and 2) our state doesn't recognize same sex marriage and 3) neither does her church (of which I don't belong) so she likes to repeat to me we won't "really" be married. I like to tell her to fuck off. 

  
  

  So now, I'm gonna side eye her big to do because apparently, while having a convalidation would have been fine, dandy and necessary for their faith (which I respect, your faith is your faith and it's not my place to decide if it's right or wrong), the big to do with the reception and registry made it a PPD. 

  The next time that she says this- just say, "Well I'll be more married than you were for the first 8 years or your sham of a marriage, you attention-seeking-sack-of-shit."

  
  

  
  

  

  
  

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• VulgarGirl member

  

  May 2014

  @hikebikebemerry I'm gonna have to remember that.

  
  

  Also I'm laughing so hard I had to put my head down for a second.

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• IrishPirate60 member

  

  May 2014

  To clarify: the Catholic church does recognize that civil marriages are indeed valid. It does not recognize them as sacramental. It's an in-house thing, in some ways, but the bond itself is real. If you'd been married at the courthouse, divorced, and now wanted to marry someone in the Catholic church, you'd be asked about that previous marriage and, if you were a baptized Christian, you'd be given information about an annulment. Yes, even if you aren't Catholic.

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