NER/NWR cutting off a family member

crunchymamaof2 · May 2014

I know this isn't really related to anything on the boards but I've come to really value your opinions and since you all have nothing invested in my life I'll get honest thoughts.

I'm going to make this 26 year story as short as possible. I lived with my mother and eventually my step dad and half brother until I was about 11. Even hen I spent much of the time at my grandparents; they took me to Disney, Maine, Rhode Island, I had a room at their home, we were very close. My mother and SF got married, divorced, together, separated more times than I can count. One time when they got back together she picked me up early from school and said she was moving in with him but since she knew I wanted to stay in my hometown I'd be living with my grandparents until they found a new place. I was 11 and I'm sorry, not my decision to make. I never lived with my mother again (aside from a few months around age 20). My mother was very into partying and often had the "flu" or a "migraine" on the weekends. My grandparents raised me.

I'm now 26 and things have been very bad with my mother since. Particularly since having our first son. She randomly decides when she wants to be my mother and it causes tension. Things got even worse when our second son was born 1.5 years ago. She got pissed because I didn't personally call her to let her know I was in labor (sorry I was too busy trying not to give birth in the elevator). My in laws called my aunt who called everyone else since they were watching our oldest. She "punished" me by not showing up until 12 hours later and stayed all of 10 minutes. Our son was in the nicu for 3 weeks and all she asked was when she could see him. That's it.

recently!man assortment of things that have happened that have made me lose all respect for her and my SF.
-claimed my grandparents tried to steal her parental rights and she only let me stay with the. For both of our safety. This is the biggest bunch of bullshit (she lived across he hall from us at one point and always had her legal rights intact). We feel she has created this web of lies to place the blame on others and now believes those lies. She can't accept any responsibility.
-neither of my boys know who their grandfather is (my SF) because they've barely ever seen him. Our youngest has seen him once or twice. They live 10 minutes away and he claims it's because he feels my husband doesn't like him and it's awkward. My husband is usually working so he wouldn't have to see him.
-my mother sees the boys like, once every few months, and gets pissed that we don't go out and do things or that I won't let her have the boys alone. They don't know you! And she only wants to see them when she can brag about how she's grandma of the year to her coworkers.
-during wedding planning I tried involving her, asked her opinions, asked her to go to things, but the only thing she was interested in was her dress and making sure her and my dad got recognition. They got announced as my parents and I did the father daughter dance. All our wedding pictures that include her are terrible as she's making a pissy face, even during the ceremony when she didn't know her pic was being taken.
-she thinks our family has all sided against her and hates her and moans abou how selfless she is and how she's busts her ass to help everyone but "just gets shit on constantly". -only talks to me to ask when she can see the boys. Doesn't ask how they are. Doesn't ask how we are. Didn't say happy Mother's Day, couldn't even like a Facebook post wishing my husband a happy birthday. But then she asks about our dog. Wtf.

Okay, basically I'm insanely hurt that she could just give me up, and now that I'm a mother I can't even fathom doing it to my children. All I've ever wanted from her is a "sorry, I made some bad choices but thought I was doing what was best.". Instead I just get excuses and she throws everyone else under the bus. She can't accept any responsibilty. I've owned up to my pettiness. She blames me for not see her grand kids but she only wants to see them when others can witness her as grandma of great. She's a heavy smoker so the kids aren't allowed at her home or in her car. I'm disgusted at how she's treated my aunt and grandparents when they've bent over backwards for her. Obviously some stuff has gone on but I know for a fact that crap she's involved me in are lies. She has no interest in my family, only herself. I'm done with her and have been for awhile. I out my feelings aside initially so our kids could have a relationship with her but she's shown she doesn't care so I'm completely done now. I'm ready to cut her out of our lives. Absolutely nothing positive comes from contact with her. I know once I do she's going to lose it and blame and tell everyone she can how she was wronged and play the victim card. That's her MO- being the victim.

So my question is how should I go about this? I wanted to write her a note explaining my feelings but not sure if it's worth it as I know her reaction. But if I just continue to fade into the background (unfriend her, continue distancing myself, etc) I know she'll confront me. Maybe I just need reassurance? I don't know. But thanks for listening to me ramble.

larrygaga · May 2014

If it was me, I would cut all ties and have the feeling-note ready for if and when she confronts me.

smalfrie19 · May 2014

Wow..I feel like we have the same mom...I have been.going through a lot of this lately

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

I am so, so, so sorry for you. I can't even imagine how hard that is.

I have personal experience from the other side -- being the spouse of the adult child who did the cutting off.

DH has no relationship with his parents. He was largely raised by his grandparents, specifically his grandmother. He hasn't set foot in his parents' house in more than 15 years. He didn't invite them to our wedding (although they crashed it anyway). He doesn't call them on Mother's Day and Father's Day, we don't see them on holidays unless BSC granny forces it, etc.

But the trouble DH has is that BSC granny believes all the drama and problems in her son's (DH's father's) life is because of her DIL, DH's mother. She refuses to accept that her molly-coddling and babying of her son enabled him to grow up to be a feeble, weak-minded, non-functional adult, who then got a girl pregnant and got married.

BSC granny bought DH's parents a house, and paid for it, when they got pregnant with DH -- and now she's upset that DH's mother may inherit it if DH's father dies, and she's upset that it's in poor condition, she's upset that he's not more thankful. Well, you raised him to expect to have everything handed to him, so that's what he's used to.

DH's father spent DH's childhood drunk and/or high -- and, FTR, anyone who tells me pot doesn't have long-term lasting consequences needs to meet this man -- and both participated in verbal abuse and neglect of his children (DH and his younger siblings) or stood by while the mother (an unmedicated woman with serious mental health issues) beat them.

BSC granny insists it's 'all [DIL's] fault and [Son] would never have done that otherwise.' Well, either way, he did.

It's coming to a head because DH refuses to be in a room with his parents, and his brother (the only sibling anyone cares about; the meth-head crack-whore sister no one gives a shit about) refuses to attend any family events where they'll be.

So now BSC granny is being forced to choose -- her favourite grandson (DH) and his wife (me, whom she hates) and our future children (I'm not PG, so this is not an issue yet), over her son, whom she's always favoured and coddled and made excuses for.

DH never formally 'cut ties' with his parents -- he didn't send a text or a letter or anything that said, 'You know, you were really shitty parents and I fucking hate you, and go DIAF because I never want to see you again.' He just stopped calling them or seeing them or visiting them or talking to them or returning their phone calls.

When we got engaged, they found out through BSC granny, and DH's father called him and left a message that said, 'Why didn't you tell us?' DH didn't respond. When we saw them next, at BSC granny's insistence, they asked again, and DH said, 'Well, we told HisGirl's parents first, then granny, and then the important people in our lives.' The implication, of course, was that they weren't important, so that's why they didn't get told.

I think this is a question of controlling the outcome. You know that, no matter what, there's going to be a confrontation with your mother. So you have to choose how you want that -- do you want to send the letter and say, 'I'm cutting you out and here's why' and have the confrontation that way, or do you want to fade out of her life -- block her on SM, change your phone number if necessary, etc. -- and then have the confrontation that way?

Let me reassure you that you're doing the right thing, you really are. Your duty is to protect your children. Your mother failed as a parent. Some people aren't cut out for parenthood, and that's OK. But her behaviour has indicated that she's never going to change, so you have to change instead.

grumbledore · May 2014

Our stories are somewhat similar, and I can tell you that for me, it's been worth it to mostly remove my mother from my life.

She occasionally pops up and pretends to be mother and grandmother of the year, but the truth is that the only time she sees me, my brother, or my daughter is when we go to her. And I just can't be bothered anymore.

I just can't imagine not wanting to see my child/grandchild. It hurts but not as much as it used to.

*hugs*

beethery · May 2014

You are doing the right thing for you, and a note isn't necessary. You don't owe your mother a damn thing.

climbingsingle · May 2014

I'm really sorry. It sounds like you are absolutely doing the right thing. You've gotten some great advise here. I'd also just cut her off and would have the letter ready to go once she contacts you. I'd then block her so she wouldn't have any way to contact (Facebook, phone number, etc.).

kmmssg · May 2014

I was raised by a toxic aunt and if she were still alive I would have cut ties with her. I have used this analogy many times, "don't go to a dry well looking for water to quench your thirst." Your mom is a toxic dry well.

The note would become ammunition that she could show the world and gain much sympathy - she would use it against you and it would most likely work.

I really encourage you to do some counseling if you can. I did that with issues from my aunt and it was incredibly liberating and healthy. It might help you in setting boundaries with her and cutting ties.

She will never be the mom you want her to be and most likely isn't even capable of it. Move on and have a fulfilling life with your own children and husband.

jdluvr06 · May 2014

I'm really sorry you are having to make this decision. I'm really sorry to all you guys who have such crummy parents. I don't have any advice but hugs to all of you.

tortoisebride · May 2014

Don't write a note. She'll never understand. Just stop engaging with her. It's painful but she dug this hole herself.

I'm in no way qualified to make a diagnosis and I suggest you shouldn't either, but you may find it useful to seek information on dealing with people who have Narcissistic Personality Disorder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

crunchymamaof2 · May 2014

Thank you all so much. You've described her perfectly- she absolutely would use any type of note to gain sympathy. I am in counseling with has helped me get to this point. I'm so tired of her guilt tripping me. Even now I feel sick to my stomach thinking about actually typing my goodbye to her. I almost feel like I'm supposed to at least try as she is my mother but DNA doesn't make you a parent. I get no happiness fm our relationship and she acts like she can't stand all of us anyways. I need to cut things now as my oldest is getting old enough to get things. My mother tries to be the cool aunt and talks crap about my aunt to my cousin and I will not stand for that with my kids.

I'm sorry so many of you are in similar situations. But I appreciate your support so much!

phira · May 2014

I've been estranged from my dad for the better part of 10 years, since I was 17. If you look up narcissistic personality disorder, it's basically like they interviewed my dad and just recorded the results as a disorder.

The initial estrangement happened when I was in high school after my parents had separated, and before that, we'd been known to go for several months without speaking, so I think that the estrangement kind of carried on for a while because at first, he expected me to just cave at some point. He did make some efforts to force contact (birthday gift, Valentine's day gift--???--coming to my graduation), which I ignored.

The second time, there was an inciting incident (a huge, scathing email he sent me in reply to a very short, "Dad, these things you're doing are hurtful" email I sent). After I got the email, I didn't reply, and I went about cutting off all contact. I made sure I was financially squared away (he had a brokerage account that was supposed to have been signed over to me a year earlier), I had my mom help me arrange a property swap so I could get some of my stuff from his house and return some of his stuff, and I stopped replying to his emails. He got the picture pretty quickly. He hasn't been trying to force contact since, as I suspect that he's playing extra-victim about it. The first time, it was very, "Oh, please, take me back! I am just a poor father who has no idea why his daughter won't talk to him!" Now, it's more like, "Why is this vindictive lady punishing me? Alas!"

Anyway. With people like your mom, there's no way to logic her into understanding why you need to cut off contact. I'd start off by assembling Team You: your husband, your grandparents, your in-laws, your friends--everyone who can help protect you when your mother and possibly your stepfather push back at an estrangement. If there's anything that's in her possession, whether it's finances, rights, or some of your belongings, decide what you need to get back, and what you can do without. Come up with plans: How will you protect your kids? How will you prevent her from coming into your home?

I wouldn't be really sneaky about getting any of your stuff back, by the way. Like, you don't have to tell her, "I want [x, y, z] back because I'm cutting you off." But, "Mom, I'm coming over to get a bunch of my stuff that you have, and I'm returning some of your stuff. When is a good time for you?" You don't have to sneak over and take stuff when she's unaware or anything.

When you are all squared away--and it might never feel like exactly the right time, so once property is sorted out and you have safety plans with your kids and your team--a very short message will suffice. Like I said, you can't logic her into getting why this is happening. She's always going to feel like you're victimizing her, so don't fight it. I recommend email over phone for this--she can't interrupt.

"Mom, for well over [x] years, I have been really unhappy with our relationship. I know you're not going to change, and I am not asking for you to change. But I'm just not capable of having a relationship with you. Until I am, and I might not ever be, please do not contact me, my husband, his family, or my children."

Block her phone number (hell, change your numbers), block her on all social media, have her emails sent to trash (or a special DEMONSPAWN folder), and make sure your friends and family know what's going on. Make it clear: you have told your mother not to contact you, and you'd appreciate it if they didn't pass on any messages to you from her. And, even more importantly, that if she comes by saying that she's supposed to take care of your children, or something like that, it's NOT true.

Honestly, I would treat the situation as if you were leaving an abusive romantic relationship. Changing your number, blocking contact, making sure that you have plans to keep your children (and yourself!) safe, having a network of people who are on your team who can help protect you, etc. I don't think that your mother or stepfather would do anything as dangerous or violent as an abusive partner, but I do think that they're going to be banging on your door, sending angry messages, and trying to get other family members to intervene on your behalf.

So, be as prepared as you can be before cutting off contact; when you do cut off contact, make it short, make the boundaries clear, and don't worry about explaining yourself; and maintain your boundaries and expect your "team" to maintain them, too.

You are not being a bad daughter. I promise. I promise you SO hard. You're in an impossible situation; it's not of your making, and you can't fix it. Getting out isn't giving up--it's taking your life back.

Jen4948 · May 2014

I'm very sorry. My mother is being toxic to me and there is a possibility that I will have to live with her if I can't find a new apartment in a few weeks-and it's her fault I even have to look for a new apartment. Long story, but the abridged version is that she insisted that certain demands of hers had to be complied with as a condition of help that I didn't want to have to ask for-and those demands got my lease torpedoed by my landlord.

short+sassy · May 2014

I suggest you still write the note...and just don't give it to her. Let that be your good-bye to her, but just for yourself.

Back in my single days, when I was having a hard time either getting over an ex-b/f or getting over how badly he treated me. I would write a long letter and just spew onto it all things I wish I could say to him. All the wrongs I wanted him to acknowledge and apologize for. It found it to be really lightening. It felt like, by taking the hurtful memories and transferring them to paper, helped to take them from rattling around in my head.

I never sent the letters. I'd just throw them in some forgotten file in my computer. I might come across one 1-2 years later when I was cleaning things out and that was cathartic also. I'd be like, "This loser? Phew! I have thought about him in forever. So GLAD he's gone!," and then I'd delete the letter.

crunchymamaof2 · May 2014

I did it. I sent her a message. I modeled it after what you suggested @phira. I feel good about my decision I just hate confrontation and the anticipation if her response. Otherwise this was that's decision for my family. No more worrying about having family get together so secretly without her and stressing over if she'll find out. No more getting upset when our son asks where she is. The relationship didn't exist anyways, this just finalized it.

Now I wait for the shitstorm.

jdluvr06 · May 2014

(((Hugs)))

Jen4948 · May 2014

<<<hugs>>>

kmmssg · May 2014

big hugs for you.

phira · May 2014

Lots and lots of hugs.

I think that some people are really sad for me that I don't have a relationship with my dad. But I'm so much happier. SO much happier. Yes, I'd love it if I had two loving parents instead of one. Yes, I'd love it if my dad were capable of working on his issues. But I don't have two loving parents. My dad is not going to change. So this is the best way to handle it.

And, if he were an ex-boyfriend instead of my dad, NO ONE would be pressuring me to keep him in my life. No one would be all, "Oh, isn't it sad that you two don't talk anymore?" Bleh.

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

phira said:

Lots and lots of hugs.

I think that some people are really sad for me that I don't have a relationship with my dad. But I'm so much happier. SO much happier. Yes, I'd love it if I had two loving parents instead of one. Yes, I'd love it if my dad were capable of working on his issues. But I don't have two loving parents. My dad is not going to change. So this is the best way to handle it.

And, if he were an ex-boyfriend instead of my dad, NO ONE would be pressuring me to keep him in my life. No one would be all, "Oh, isn't it sad that you two don't talk anymore?" Bleh.

THIS is probably the most profound thing I've ever heard in regards to estranged family relationships. Brava, brava, brava, @phira!!

If you escape an abusive marriage or relationship, no (sane, thinking, rational) person thinks you should still be friends with your ex. They realise your ex was a douchecanoe and you're better off alone.

So why should it be any different for family members? If your mother or father is abusive, then why should you allow them any entry into your lives? The relationships are not really different -- they're ones of intimacy and emotions, and they're ones built on trust and respect.

If any of those elements are missing, the relationship fails.

phira · May 2014

@hisgirlfriday13 That analogy actually only occurred to me back in September because my sister was asking if I could just invite my dad "as a friend" to the wedding. In the moment, I couldn't figure out how to explain to her how irrational that was. After I got home, J and I were talking about it, and I finally pinpointed it.

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

@phira -- it's brilliant!!

crunchymamaof2 · May 2014

She never responded to me. Instead she unfriended myself, my 2 aunts (one being her aunt and 1 her sister) and my grandparents. She still hasn't taken down the pictures of our youngest she has as her profile and cover photo. Even though I asked her too (the pictures look like it's her child and have really bothered my husband and I). Would I just be being a bitch if I reported the photos? I just don't want her associating with my children period. And well, part of me just wants to be a bitch lol.

tortoisebride · May 2014

crunchymamaof2 said:

She never responded to me. Instead she unfriended myself, my 2 aunts (one being her aunt and 1 her sister) and my grandparents. She still hasn't taken down the pictures of our youngest she has as her profile and cover photo. Even though I asked her too (the pictures look like it's her child and have really bothered my husband and I). Would I just be being a bitch if I reported the photos? I just don't want her associating with my children period. And well, part of me just wants to be a bitch lol.

Don't report the photos. It's just adding fuel to the shitfire. Also, congrats on her not responding and doing the social media cutting off herself! That's so much better than getting a giant toxic email. Trust me. I've had those. You'll probably get some randomly in the future. For now, she's gone. Leave it. Take a deep breath and go get a celebratory ice cream cone with your boys (do not tell them it's a Ding Dong the Witch is Defriended ice cream cone though).

tortoisebride · May 2014

P.S. you are so lucky her relatives are on board with you. It sucks when they're not.

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

I would also report them. They're your kids, not hers, so you get to make the call.

And I agree with bracing for the shitstorm. It's coming.

phira · May 2014

I'm on the fence about reporting the photos, but I wouldn't be all, WHY DID YOU REPORT THEM if you did report them.

I am so so so so relieved on your behalf that her reaction was to defriend and shut down because the worst when there's all this BUT WHYYYY whining. Phew!

crunchymamaof2 · May 2014

Thank you for all you support. You all gave me the final push I needed. I feel.....nothing! Relief. But no regret or anxiety

Kauris · May 2014

If writing the note will help you get these thoughts out of your head and heart, write it. You can always keep it and burn it later, or shred it. It could be a very healing thing for you to do, for yourself. Good luck and all the hugs!

NER/NWR cutting off a family member

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