Vent: Engaged for 2 days and already ridiculousness re: invites

GuitarSlayer · May 2014

Yay, officially engaged! He popped the question at one of the two coffee bars in Edinburgh where JK Rowling wrote HP. The ring is Gryffindor colours, and while I knew it was coming, I thought it was coming in August or December....not now. Two points to Ravenclaw (FI's Pottermore house...I hedge between Gryff and Slytherin

)

Anyway, we told both our families about the engagement (his threw a hissy fit over not receiving personal international phone calls, mine on skype were like 'grats' -- foreshadowing, hint hint') and we immediately stated that the wedding was going to be small -- 10-15 people, 20s max. We told both families that the people we could guarantee invites to were immediate family -- parents, siblings, and the partners of siblings. Both of us are introverted.

FI's father stated that we "forgot" people. We said we didn't -- we don't have the budget to include aunts, uncles, cousins, etc -- keep in mind that FI is from the South, and 5th cousins seem to have a reasonable expectation of invite. FFIL (probably at the insistence of FMIL) then sent a guest list of 13 people.

I had to reply and state, "I have a family too, and you just sent a 13 person list for the 10-15 people we're inviting. That's not going to happen." Some people might say the difference between 15 and 30 is nothing when their guest list is over 100, maybe, but when it's a 100% increase in population, it's a huge deal. FI and I are both PhD students, and I'm not quite sure where they think the money for this wedding is coming from. My parents don't do the money thing to help out kids unless it's dire. His parents went for broke on putting his brother thru college (it took 7 years) and paying for his wedding. We're not expecting them to pony up (especially since I am not the make and model of wife they wanted -- they're decidedly more into the religious submissive wife and ....I'm just nope.)

My parents are fine with us eloping, doing a small wedding, whatever -- as long as we can afford it without going into debt or begging off. They had a budget conscious wedding and reception back in the day. They're totally cool. FI is in agreement with me and supportive. FI's family is rapidly devolving into a crew of proxy Groomzillas. They will not be pleased when we announce our venue -- it's likely going to be in the UK instead of TX.

TL;DR: Groomzilla-by-Proxy Family want at least 30 people at this wedding, preferably 150+ in Texas, while FI and I want 10-15 in the UK. Let the festivities begin.

kmmssg · May 2014

A few things spring to mind on this:

1. That email reply should have come from your FI. You deal with your family, he deals with his. A curt reply like that (even though it is absolutely true) does nothing for any potential detente between them and you.'

2. FI needs to talk to his parents and tell them "Hey, Mom and Dad, I know you would like to see a bigger wedding like what is more common in our family, but that is not what we want. We are going to stick with the 15 people guest list we mentioned. We aren't going to change our mind on that and that discussion needs to be closed now." Then he needs to end any discussion or visit every time it is brought up again. EVERY TIME. If he doesn't engage in the conversation and leaves or hangs up if they keep bringing it up, hopefully they will stop.

3. Do not accept a single dime from them if they offer it. Once you do they get input on your plans. Not a dime.

4. Yeah, they will probably have quite the fit when you tell them it is in the UK, but that is your choice on where to get married. Are you British and he is American? International travel may preclude others from coming who are important to you so just be mindful of that. If you guys are living in the UK, it would make sense that you might want your wedding there.

5 Lastly - they may not back off and you may have to seriously ignore them and take up professional drinking until after the wedding.

As long as you are both on the same page in all of this you will be fine in the end. That doesn't mean they aren't going to make a lot of noise about this for a long time, but you choose how you react to that. You can choose to let it upset you and get you all riled up OR you can choose to let it roll off your back.

Good luck you to you both.

AddieCake · May 2014

Ugh. I'm sorry they are being so difficult. At least your fiance is backing you up with them.

GuitarSlayer · May 2014

kmmssg said:

A few things spring to mind on this:

1. That email reply should have come from your FI. You deal with your family, he deals with his. A curt reply like that (even though it is absolutely true) does nothing for any potential detente between them and you.'

You're absolutely right on the "his family is his, hers is hers" matter. We've agreed on that from the start. We created a shared wedding email in order to deal with stuff like this, and this is where the conversation took place. FFIL keeps speaking ONLY to FI as if I don't exist even though the address is FI.and.GuitarSlayer@whatevs.net, and we sign the emails together. This was the third or fourth email in the chain emphasising that the wedding is small. We explained that we need to properly host people, that we're not expecting a shower or anything because the guest list is so small, etc etc etc. His response was "you don't have to invite everyone, but you have to invite these people: 13 names." This is after we told them multiple times that the wedding is small, intimate, and 10-15, 20 max. FI leaned over my shoulder while I wrote it and gave his approval. There was more to the email than that, but I didn't feel like rewriting the novel.

2. FI needs to talk to his parents and tell them "Hey, Mom and Dad, I know you would like to see a bigger wedding like what is more common in our family, but that is not what we want. We are going to stick with the 15 people guest list we mentioned. We aren't going to change our mind on that and that discussion needs to be closed now." Then he needs to end any discussion or visit every time it is brought up again. EVERY TIME. If he doesn't engage in the conversation and leaves or hangs up if they keep bringing it up, hopefully they will stop.

There were already several talks with them before the proposal about different things in the relationship, per FI (who's sitting next to me). They refuse to change their minds about other things, such as the fact we didn't want to spend $5k on an engagement ring. FI ultimately got the ring in the UK because of their very strong opinions -- I think the ring (which I adore!) is less than $100. Who cares, we love it and we're engaged -- but they clearly have opinions on $$$ = how much love. We're choosing the fights early so I'm not doing my viva for my degree while WWIII rages.

3. Do not accept a single dime from them if they offer it. Once you do they get input on your plans. Not a dime.

Nope! Not happening!

4. Yeah, they will probably have quite the fit when you tell them it is in the UK, but that is your choice on where to get married. Are you British and he is American? International travel may preclude others from coming who are important to you so just be mindful of that. If you guys are living in the UK, it would make sense that you might want your wedding there.

I'm doing my PhD here in the UK. FI is very conservative in the moral sense, so he won't cohabitate before the wedding, so we have to get married before I move back to the States. Also, the UK location will solve the whole invitation problem one way or another, but even if the wedding was in the States, it'd still be smaller than they'd want it. Should something happen and the wedding is moved to the States, we don't want them saying "now you can invite more people!" No, the invite list is a hard cap, whatever continent we have it on.

5 Lastly - they may not back off and you may have to seriously ignore them and take up professional drinking until after the wedding.

Yup. FI doesn't drink, but I told him I'd support him if he started. I watched my FSIL get dragged around a bit, though she stood her ground on certain matters. FI has already said that ultimately, if they throw hissy fits and don't come, their loss. Again, mine are just like "whatevs, tell us when."

As long as you are both on the same page in all of this you will be fine in the end. That doesn't mean they aren't going to make a lot of noise about this for a long time, but you choose how you react to that. You can choose to let it upset you and get you all riled up OR you can choose to let it roll off your back.

Good luck you to you both.

Thanks! I agree that we'll be ok, but I anticipate several "dying on hill" incidents.

OliveOilsMom · May 2014

Since you and FI are on the same page. You are paying for your own wedding. I think you should get rid of the wedding email address. You are planning what you want and don't need your FILs input. Stop talking about the wedding with them, except to tell them the dates and any travel information they need. And your FI should be free to tell them why you no longer talk wedding with them because they are not listening to what you are actually planning, so they are only on a need to know basis.

GuitarSlayer · May 2014

OliveOilsMom said:

Since you and FI are on the same page. You are paying for your own wedding. I think you should get rid of the wedding email address. You are planning what you want and don't need your FILs input. Stop talking about the wedding with them, except to tell them the dates and any travel information they need. And your FI should be free to tell them why you no longer talk wedding with them because they are not listening to what you are actually planning, so they are only on a need to know basis.

We're reaching that latter point now. We just got an email from (likely) FMIL that called our email "sarcastic." We responded that we are confused -- we meant everything we said about not having money, having a small wedding, and everything else. Essentially, they are in denial. We're going to keep the wedding email just so we have venues and stuff talking to us through there rather than through personal email, plus my own mother will know "on of 1 to bleeding to death in a burning house, how important is this email?" by just looking at the sender.

kmmssg · May 2014

GuitarSlayer said:

kmmssg said:

A few things spring to mind on this:

1. That email reply should have come from your FI. You deal with your family, he deals with his. A curt reply like that (even though it is absolutely true) does nothing for any potential detente between them and you.'

You're absolutely right on the "his family is his, hers is hers" matter. We've agreed on that from the start. We created a shared wedding email in order to deal with stuff like this, and this is where the conversation took place. FFIL keeps speaking ONLY to FI as if I don't exist even though the address is FI.and.GuitarSlayer@whatevs.net, and we sign the emails together. This was the third or fourth email in the chain emphasising that the wedding is small. We explained that we need to properly host people, that we're not expecting a shower or anything because the guest list is so small, etc etc etc. His response was "you don't have to invite everyone, but you have to invite these people: 13 names." This is after we told them multiple times that the wedding is small, intimate, and 10-15, 20 max. FI leaned over my shoulder while I wrote it and gave his approval. There was more to the email than that, but I didn't feel like rewriting the novel.

2. FI needs to talk to his parents and tell them "Hey, Mom and Dad, I know you would like to see a bigger wedding like what is more common in our family, but that is not what we want. We are going to stick with the 15 people guest list we mentioned. We aren't going to change our mind on that and that discussion needs to be closed now." Then he needs to end any discussion or visit every time it is brought up again. EVERY TIME. If he doesn't engage in the conversation and leaves or hangs up if they keep bringing it up, hopefully they will stop.

There were already several talks with them before the proposal about different things in the relationship, per FI (who's sitting next to me). They refuse to change their minds about other things, such as the fact we didn't want to spend $5k on an engagement ring. FI ultimately got the ring in the UK because of their very strong opinions -- I think the ring (which I adore!) is less than $100. Who cares, we love it and we're engaged -- but they clearly have opinions on $$$ = how much love. We're choosing the fights early so I'm not doing my viva for my degree while WWIII rages.

3. Do not accept a single dime from them if they offer it. Once you do they get input on your plans. Not a dime.

Nope! Not happening!

4. Yeah, they will probably have quite the fit when you tell them it is in the UK, but that is your choice on where to get married. Are you British and he is American? International travel may preclude others from coming who are important to you so just be mindful of that. If you guys are living in the UK, it would make sense that you might want your wedding there.

I'm doing my PhD here in the UK. FI is very conservative in the moral sense, so he won't cohabitate before the wedding, so we have to get married before I move back to the States. Also, the UK location will solve the whole invitation problem one way or another, but even if the wedding was in the States, it'd still be smaller than they'd want it. Should something happen and the wedding is moved to the States, we don't want them saying "now you can invite more people!" No, the invite list is a hard cap, whatever continent we have it on.

5 Lastly - they may not back off and you may have to seriously ignore them and take up professional drinking until after the wedding.

Yup. FI doesn't drink, but I told him I'd support him if he started. I watched my FSIL get dragged around a bit, though she stood her ground on certain matters. FI has already said that ultimately, if they throw hissy fits and don't come, their loss. Again, mine are just like "whatevs, tell us when."

As long as you are both on the same page in all of this you will be fine in the end. That doesn't mean they aren't going to make a lot of noise about this for a long time, but you choose how you react to that. You can choose to let it upset you and get you all riled up OR you can choose to let it roll off your back.

Good luck you to you both.
Thanks! I agree that we'll be ok, but I anticipate several "dying on hill" incidents.

Oh my, you have your hands full with them! Sounds like you guys have each other's back here and that is imperative. Stand firm (as it seems you are) and keep details to a minumum. Good luck!!

LondonLisa · May 2014

Just an FYI, it is very hard to get married in the UK unless one of you is an EU citizen. And even then you have you be a resident of the country for a month beforehand. If you want to get married in a church you usually have to be an active member, or you both go at least twice a month for 6 months beforehand. You Fi would need a visa to get married which is hard if you are not an EU citizen.

laurenstlouis · May 2014

I agree with what the PPs said, but honestly, I'm mostly here for the Harry Potter references in your first paragraph! (I'm a Slytherin, FI is a Hufflepuff, haha!) Congratulations on your engagement and yay Harry Potter!

Whatever happens with your FI's family, I hope everything turns out well. I can only advise you both to remain firm (but not rude!) with your FI's family and just let them know that this is how it's going to be. Hopefully they'll come around eventually.

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

Good luck to you! It sounds like they're unpleasant people, and you'll have several hills to die on.

Keep us posted.

GuitarSlayer · May 2014

LondonLisa said:

Just an FYI, it is very hard to get married in the UK unless one of you is an EU citizen. And even then you have you be a resident of the country for a month beforehand. If you want to get married in a church you usually have to be an active member, or you both go at least twice a month for 6 months beforehand. You Fi would need a visa to get married which is hard if you are not an EU citizen.

It's actually easier than you think in my case. It's not a true "destination wedding" since I live here and am Anglican. Because I'm here on a three year PhD programme, I'm considered a temporary permanent UK resident - weird, but since I'm here for longer than 9 months as a student, I am permanent until my visa expires in 5 years.

My visa is fine with me marrying anyone other than a British citizen. We're both US citizens, but I have an established presence. FI would have to visit me for a week before we announced our intent to marry/gave notice -- from that point, we can get married after 3 weeks but before a year passes. He gets a visitor to marry visa, and we get married within 6 months. As long as we document our giving notice, moneys spent, and venues booked, the visa for him is no problem.

GuitarSlayer · May 2014

HisGirlFriday13 said:

Good luck to you! It sounds like they're unpleasant people, and you'll have several hills to die on. Keep us posted.

Don't worry. I'll pop some popcorn for the board.

Jen4948 · May 2014

Best wishes and lots of luck!

wrigleyville · May 2014

GuitarSlayer said:

My visa is fine with me marrying anyone other than a British citizen. We're both US citizens, but I have an established presence. FI would have to visit me for a week before we announced our intent to marry/gave notice -- from that point, we can get married after 3 weeks but before a year passes. He gets a visitor to marry visa, and we get married within 6 months. As long as we document our giving notice, moneys spent, and venues booked, the visa for him is no problem.

Dear Future DW Brides Who End Up Getting Screwed and Have to Have a PPD in Mexico:

THIS is how it's done. It's called research and planning.

LondonLisa · May 2014

GuitarSlayer said:

LondonLisa said:

Just an FYI, it is very hard to get married in the UK unless one of you is an EU citizen. And even then you have you be a resident of the country for a month beforehand. If you want to get married in a church you usually have to be an active member, or you both go at least twice a month for 6 months beforehand. You Fi would need a visa to get married which is hard if you are not an EU citizen.

It's actually easier than you think in my case. It's not a true "destination wedding" since I live here and am Anglican. Because I'm here on a three year PhD programme, I'm considered a temporary permanent UK resident - weird, but since I'm here for longer than 9 months as a student, I am permanent until my visa expires in 5 years.

My visa is fine with me marrying anyone other than a British citizen. We're both US citizens, but I have an established presence. FI would have to visit me for a week before we announced our intent to marry/gave notice -- from that point, we can get married after 3 weeks but before a year passes. He gets a visitor to marry visa, and we get married within 6 months. As long as we document our giving notice, moneys spent, and venues booked, the visa for him is no problem.

I'm glad you've looked into the visa rules and it works for you! However, the Church rules are fairly strict and even if you are CoE there are rules about where you can marry. You have to either be an active member of the church for 6 months or be at the local Parish church where you live. Obviously, unless you want a registry office wedding then that is fairly straight forward.

beethery · May 2014

GuitarSlayer said:

LondonLisa said:

Just an FYI, it is very hard to get married in the UK unless one of you is an EU citizen. And even then you have you be a resident of the country for a month beforehand. If you want to get married in a church you usually have to be an active member, or you both go at least twice a month for 6 months beforehand. You Fi would need a visa to get married which is hard if you are not an EU citizen.

It's actually easier than you think in my case. It's not a true "destination wedding" since I live here and am Anglican. Because I'm here on a three year PhD programme, I'm considered a temporary permanent UK resident - weird, but since I'm here for longer than 9 months as a student, I am permanent until my visa expires in 5 years.

My visa is fine with me marrying anyone other than a British citizen. We're both US citizens, but I have an established presence. FI would have to visit me for a week before we announced our intent to marry/gave notice -- from that point, we can get married after 3 weeks but before a year passes. He gets a visitor to marry visa, and we get married within 6 months. As long as we document our giving notice, moneys spent, and venues booked, the visa for him is no problem.

You are on your fucking game, and I LOVE IT. Good job!

GuitarSlayer · May 2014

@LondonLisa we're going to talk to my vicar tomorrow. I have some problems with consistent attendance (PhD = I make my own hours, which may mean 5:30 am bedtimes which are not friendly toward 8 am/10:30 am services.), but I am known to the parish already since last autumn, so between now and the wedding, I should be able to string 6 months of consistent service attendance.

NYCMercedes · May 2014

OP, the more you write, the more impressed I am with you! Way to go!

phira · May 2014

My only advice is to have as short an engagement as possible because his family is NOT gonna let this go and you're doing everything you can to mitigate the situation already. Bleh. Drinks for everyone!

kla728 · May 2014

Serious props to you on being so on top of all this nonsense.

Congratulations and to heck with the proxy haters!

monkeysip · May 2014

Ditto pps---good for you for doing your research and trying to handle everything as reasonably as possible!

Sucks FI's family is being ridiculous, but it's good FI is backing you up! Hope you have a wonderful wedding (despite the crazies!)

OnceUponAVine · May 2014

I'll give you the best piece of advice I've learned on this site: You & Fiance make decisions together then You handle your family and Fiance handle's their family.

Good luck, stick to what you & your fiance want, and congrats!

GuitarSlayer · May 2014

Thanks for the support, everyone. I think we're going to need it. And a clever gif.

LondonLisa · May 2014

GuitarSlayer said:

@LondonLisa we're going to talk to my vicar tomorrow. I have some problems with consistent attendance (PhD = I make my own hours, which may mean 5:30 am bedtimes which are not friendly toward 8 am/10:30 am services.), but I am known to the parish already since last autumn, so between now and the wedding, I should be able to string 6 months of consistent service attendance.

I'm so glad you're on top of this. A lot of people are still realy surprised by the rules (even locals!). Also, depending on your university, they sometimes have beautiful chapels that you could easily demonstrate ties to. Sorry your inlaws are being annoying but it sounds like your Fi is handling it. Good luck

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

Count me as a other person very impressed by your on-top-of-it-ness when it comes to the legal stuff! You go girl!

I ditto @phira‌ in suggesting a VERY short engagement. The less time they have to complain, the better.

GuitarSlayer · May 2014

@phira and @HisGirlFriday13, the engagement is probably going to be 18 months or more; the exact 'when' will be set once I'm reasonably confident of my graduation date. We wanted at least one of us to have their PhD before we wed -- looks like it will be me! I'm ahead of schedule now, but stuff happens.

@OliveOilsMom 's advice is probably what we're going to do -- no more talk about the wedding with them. FI does have to drop the location bomb this summer though. We're hoping his parents can get over the guest list and location over the course of a year, so that they will still have 6 months to get their passports and bookings set; despite these difficulties, FI wants them there, and I want them there for FI's sake.

Vent: Engaged for 2 days and already ridiculousness re: invites

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