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Why are men held to different etiquette standards than women.

themuffinman16themuffinman16 member
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in Wedding Etiquette Forum
  In my neck of the woods, men have the tackiest bachelor parties, and it is standard.  They invite anyone they know, or even anyone their friends may know (not caring who is invited to the wedding).  They sell tickets to cover the cost of beer and food.  They even do raffles to set up the groom to help pay for the wedding.  If someone wins the raffle, which is a 50/50 split, they are coerced into giving their winnings to the groom. Could you imagine if a woman did this for a bridal shower? We would be tarred and feathered. My fiance is planning on the same thing for his bachelor party. I hope know one will think I am behind this, because I won't be there.
   This weekend, my fiance went to a friend's bachelor party. It was the tackiest bachelor party I could ever imagine.The groom picked out the venue, without even consulting his groomsmen, and the groomsmen had to pay for it, without any regard to their budget. The groom was even selling his own raffle tickets and trying to promote people to buy them. At the end of the bachelor party, the groom mentioned to a friend that it was the worst financial turnout for a bachelor party he has ever seen, and that he still has to pretty much pay for his entire wedding, because it did not put a dent in his cost. WOW. 
  The next day, he gets on facebook thanking everyone for their attendance and said that he did not meet his goal, so if anyone would like to buy raffle tickets (the raffle is over) or donate to his wedding, they can feel free to at any time.  Hi.... you don't have cancer, you weren't struck by a dump truck, rendering you a quadriplegic for the rest of your life.  You are having a wedding.  You chose this. It was not inflicted upon you, so don't ask for charity.  I am getting married a month after him.... has my fiance asked him to help cover the cost of our wedding?  This friend is getting married this weekend. I really do not want to go. It will be a shit show, for sure.  And my rsvps for my own wedding are due by this Wednesday.  He is not rsvping to our wedding until he knows how generous we will be with his wedding gift. WOW. Thankfully, this idiot is getting his ass handed to him on facebook about how rude he was to all of his guests. He has since deleted his post and edited it to just say, Thank you for coming to my bachelor party.
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Re: Why are men held to different etiquette standards than women.

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    themuffinman16themuffinman16 member
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    Fi's friend went overboard, but the basis of all stags around here are, still, a huge etiquette breach and I find it embarrassing.  All of the local stags in my area sell tickets to pay for food and drink (you see fliers advertised on bars or people you don't even know selling tickets on facebook). People around here still do a raffle to give the groom money, (making the winner of the raffle give the groom back the money.) Inviting people to the stag that aren't invited to the wedding.  Hell, most times, half the people at the stag don't even know the groom. That part. If any woman did any of these things for her bridal shower, no one would attend the wedding. If you keep it to those guidelines, men get a free pass, in this neck of the woods.
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    kns1988kns1988 member
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    That's absolutely not something that's done where I live. My FI is having a bachelor party that includes a few more guys than are actually in the wedding party, and I'm having a bachelorette party that includes more women than are in the wedding party. I think that's pretty standard, though. I have a few close friends that aren't bridesmaids, and they want to come to the bar with us. 

    But selling raffle tickets and raising money for the wedding? That's some crazy talk.
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    AddieCakeAddieCake member
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    Plenty of couples do stag and doe parties, and plenty of people find those socially acceptable, so this is not just on the men. I don't see them getting a free pass.
    What did you think would happen if you walked up to a group of internet strangers and told them to get shoehorned by their lady doc?~StageManager14
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    denisemoddenisemod member
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    MuffinMan I completely understand!! It's done the same where I live as well & I agree it seems so tacky! Maybe since they don't actually buy a gift they don't care since they're fed & there's an open bar? But they're still donating to some kind of raffle so I don't know. They break just about all etiquette rules & none of them seem to care!!
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    photokittyphotokitty mod
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    I've never heard of selling tickets or having a raffle until I read about it on here. The only tacky thing I ever hear about bachelor parties around here is "bad behavior of the drunken sort" - not the pathetic begging for money type. They pay for their own drinks and buy drinks for the groom, but that's about it. 

    It is common for the guy to have a say in what they do where they go...I think that's typical male behavior, they care more about what the guest of honor wants to do. Yet if the bride has an opinion is breaking etiquette...I asked if we could go to one bar instead of another and was told - no, they were planning it and I didn't getting any say. I thought that was ruder than me "trying to plan my own Bparty."
    :kiss: ~xoxo~ :kiss:

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    offensivekitten2offensivekitten2 member
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    I don't hold men to a different standard of etiquette. This dude sounds gross, regardless of whether or not he has a rack.



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    NYCMercedesNYCMercedes member
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    This is not a male/female thing at all!
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    beetherybeethery member
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    FMIL hosted FSIL's bridal shower. They had a 50/50 raffle and I had no fucking idea what that meant until now and I just got douche chills. UGH.
    --

    I'm the fuck     out.

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    melissamusicmelissamusic member
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    Wow. I've never heard of something like that! That's awful!
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    theartistformerlyknownastheartistformerlyknownas member
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    We don't have stag and doe parties here, but FI did seem to think he could invite whoever the hell he wanted to his bachelor party. I found out his friend Joe was invited, said "but honey, Joe isn't invited to the wedding. He shouldn't have been invited to the bach party." "So? Guys go to each other's bachelor parties all the time no matter what. We don't care if we're invited to the wedding or not." "Well... no. Get me Joe's address and we'll add him to the guest list." Grrrr.
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    KatieinBklnKatieinBkln member
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    I could go on, AT LENGTH, about the patriarchy and how it creates social mores that hold men and women to different standards...but I have to agree with PPs, this particular case seems to be un-gendered.

    Yikes, though. Yikes. 
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    annathy03annathy03 member
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    lolo883 said:
    We don't have stag and doe parties here, but FI did seem to think he could invite whoever the hell he wanted to his bachelor party. I found out his friend Joe was invited, said "but honey, Joe isn't invited to the wedding. He shouldn't have been invited to the bach party." "So? Guys go to each other's bachelor parties all the time no matter what. We don't care if we're invited to the wedding or not." "Well... no. Get me Joe's address and we'll add him to the guest list." Grrrr.
    Yeah, I caught H on this, thankfully before they invited guys to the bachelor party.  He'd intended to invite a bunch more guys that weren't invited to the wedding "Because guys just see it as a party, not a wedding event.  I've been to bachelor parties where I wasn't invited to the wedding, it's totally normal".  NOPE NOPE NOPE. There were one or two he REALLY wanted to invite that we added to the wedding guest list so he could.

    I don't give guys a pass more than women.  I think they are less likely to say, check TK and more likely to be clueless (H didn't know it wasn't kosher to put "Adult only" on the invite and would have if I'd not done them), but FFS everyone knows asking for money is rude.  The "50/50" thing makes me want to vomit a little, those are for charity.  Wedding =\= charity.
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    MairePoppyMairePoppy mod
    First Anniversary First Answer First Comment 5 Love Its
    edited June 2014
    Back in the 70s, when I was married, those types of stag parties weren't unusual. The stags were organized by the gm or FOG, FOB, never by the groom. They would sell tickets to whoever wanted to attend, without regard to the wedding guest list. My husband would buy tickets for grooms he hardly knew as a good will gesture. He usually didn't attend the parties. My husband declined his brothers offer to throw a stag for him. His friends were disappointed. 

    Even though stag fundraisers were common back then, they weren't socially acceptable. I also believe that brides that tell us that 'Stag and Does' are acceptable, know, deep down, that they aren't. 

    Am I the only one who is  bothered by the word 'stagette?' The female counterpart to a stag is a doe.

                       
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    thisismynickname2thisismynickname2 member
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    lolo883 said:
    We don't have stag and doe parties here, but FI did seem to think he could invite whoever the hell he wanted to his bachelor party. I found out his friend Joe was invited, said "but honey, Joe isn't invited to the wedding. He shouldn't have been invited to the bach party." "So? Guys go to each other's bachelor parties all the time no matter what. We don't care if we're invited to the wedding or not." "Well... no. Get me Joe's address and we'll add him to the guest list." Grrrr.

    STUCK in BOX

    I've had pretty much an identical situation with FI, except since it hasn't happened yet, FI now knows he can't invite someone to his party who isn't invited to the wedding.  Yes, I said "he can't invite".  Because men just plan their own- clutch your pearls. 
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    InkdancerInkdancer member
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    That's gross. I would yank a knot in FI's tail if he tried to pull anything like that.
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    theartistformerlyknownastheartistformerlyknownas member
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    annathy03 said:
    lolo883 said:
    We don't have stag and doe parties here, but FI did seem to think he could invite whoever the hell he wanted to his bachelor party. I found out his friend Joe was invited, said "but honey, Joe isn't invited to the wedding. He shouldn't have been invited to the bach party." "So? Guys go to each other's bachelor parties all the time no matter what. We don't care if we're invited to the wedding or not." "Well... no. Get me Joe's address and we'll add him to the guest list." Grrrr.
    Yeah, I caught H on this, thankfully before they invited guys to the bachelor party.  He'd intended to invite a bunch more guys that weren't invited to the wedding "Because guys just see it as a party, not a wedding event.  I've been to bachelor parties where I wasn't invited to the wedding, it's totally normal".  NOPE NOPE NOPE. There were one or two he REALLY wanted to invite that we added to the wedding guest list so he could.

    I don't give guys a pass more than women.  I think they are less likely to say, check TK and more likely to be clueless (H didn't know it wasn't kosher to put "Adult only" on the invite and would have if I'd not done them), but FFS everyone knows asking for money is rude.  The "50/50" thing makes me want to vomit a little, those are for charity.  Wedding =\= charity.
    Are we with the same man? FI gave me that same exact sentence. "It's not a wedding event, it's a baseball game and a night at the casino." "Yes but you wouldn't be GOING with all the dudes you know if you weren't getting married." "Yes I would." "Fine but you're NOT." (FTR, his best man did coordinate it all for him, FI just provided the names and numbers of the people to invite.)

    FI did also breach the rule of not assuming you can read people's minds/make decisions for them, and I didn't find out in enough time to do anything about it. He told me the other day that he didn't invite my BIL or my sis/MOH's BF because he "didn't want them to feel like they had to drive all this way to come" (~2 hours). I think they would have loved to go with him, and told him he should have let them make that decision on their own rather than just not inviting them. "But, they would have felt pressured to go, and that's a long drive." An invitation isn't a subpoena! Don't put words in their mouth! The tickets are already bought though and I'm not willing to B-list them if anyone drops out. :(
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    annathy03annathy03 member
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    lolo883 said:
    annathy03 said:
    lolo883 said:
    We don't have stag and doe parties here, but FI did seem to think he could invite whoever the hell he wanted to his bachelor party. I found out his friend Joe was invited, said "but honey, Joe isn't invited to the wedding. He shouldn't have been invited to the bach party." "So? Guys go to each other's bachelor parties all the time no matter what. We don't care if we're invited to the wedding or not." "Well... no. Get me Joe's address and we'll add him to the guest list." Grrrr.
    Yeah, I caught H on this, thankfully before they invited guys to the bachelor party.  He'd intended to invite a bunch more guys that weren't invited to the wedding "Because guys just see it as a party, not a wedding event.  I've been to bachelor parties where I wasn't invited to the wedding, it's totally normal".  NOPE NOPE NOPE. There were one or two he REALLY wanted to invite that we added to the wedding guest list so he could.

    I don't give guys a pass more than women.  I think they are less likely to say, check TK and more likely to be clueless (H didn't know it wasn't kosher to put "Adult only" on the invite and would have if I'd not done them), but FFS everyone knows asking for money is rude.  The "50/50" thing makes me want to vomit a little, those are for charity.  Wedding =\= charity.
    Are we with the same man? FI gave me that same exact sentence. "It's not a wedding event, it's a baseball game and a night at the casino." "Yes but you wouldn't be GOING with all the dudes you know if you weren't getting married." "Yes I would." "Fine but you're NOT." (FTR, his best man did coordinate it all for him, FI just provided the names and numbers of the people to invite.)

    FI did also breach the rule of not assuming you can read people's minds/make decisions for them, and I didn't find out in enough time to do anything about it. He told me the other day that he didn't invite my BIL or my sis/MOH's BF because he "didn't want them to feel like they had to drive all this way to come" (~2 hours). I think they would have loved to go with him, and told him he should have let them make that decision on their own rather than just not inviting them. "But, they would have felt pressured to go, and that's a long drive." An invitation isn't a subpoena! Don't put words in their mouth! The tickets are already bought though and I'm not willing to B-list them if anyone drops out. :(
    Yes, apparently your FI and my H are twins.  "It's just golf and drinking with the guys!"  He at least knew not to plan his either, he just gave the contact info to his best man for the invites.
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    adverb1129adverb1129 member
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    I agree the women and men are held to different standards of behavior- especially with weddings and etiquette.  My DH was all for money dances and tiered receptions and it was up to me to put my foot down.  But I also found that friends and family could be very condescending to DH whenever he voiced an opinion on the wedding.  It was just assumed that he didn't know what he was talking about when it came to weddings.

    Guys can be lucky though- I'm pretty sure that if anything went wrong at the wedding then I would be blamed for it and not DH.
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    sophhabobophasophhabobopha member
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    I don't think it's a gender issue, but Fi is etiquette clueless. He thought our wedding should be BYOB because that's what everybody does for BBQs. Uh, no.
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