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Etiquette

NWR: Emily Post

edited June 2014 in Etiquette
So sometimes people get on the etiquette board and try to have a reference point for etiquette rules. Is Emily Post a good one? I asked a question on another board, but still do not feel like the answers match other posts I have read. I am still confused and was hoping to get something more than opinions to help me decide what to do. Should I consider Emily Post as a good reference?

Re: NWR: Emily Post

  • huskypuppy14huskypuppy14 Boston Suburbs member
    2500 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    Miss Manners is the preferred one around here. Emily Post is good, if the info actually came from Emily Post herself (so an older etiquette book). If it's a recent book or blog, then it's Emily Post's family, who has sold out to the wedding industry, and is not a good source. 

    Hope that helps!
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    pinkshorts27luckysnorkelMairePoppy
  • Her decedents are giving some advice under her name that would make Emily roll in her grave. I recommend Miss Manners. 

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    MairePoppy
  • JCbride2015JCbride2015 Dirty Jerz member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Second Anniversary First Answer
    The old Emily Post books actually written by Emily Post are good.  The current Emily Post Institute is terrible.  

    Miss Manners "Guide to a Surprisingly Dignified Wedding" is the best.

    Also, common sense will get you a long way.  Etiquette means putting your guests' comfort first.
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    "I'm not a rude bitch.  I'm ten rude bitches in a large coat."

  • CMGragainCMGragain member
    10000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 25 Answers
    edited June 2014
    "Emily Post" is now an organization which is run by descendants of the late etiquette expert.  Their current advice is very liberal, especially concerning invitation wording.  If the Emily Post gurus tell you that something is wrong, believe it! 
    The most conservative etiquette guide is currently Miss Manners, a.k.a. Judith Martin. She still hates pre-printed RSVP cards, which are used by most brides since the 1980s.   Most people fall somewhere in between the two.
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  • For the record, it is not wedding related.
  • huskypuppy14huskypuppy14 Boston Suburbs member
    2500 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    Doesn't matter. Advice still stands.
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  • Doesn't matter. Advice still stands.
    I understand that lol. I was just trying to clarify. 
  • Can you tell us what your question is about?
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  • JCbride2015JCbride2015 Dirty Jerz member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Second Anniversary First Answer
    CMGragain said:
    "Emily Post" is now an organization which is run by descendants of the late etiquette expert.  Their current advice is very liberal, especially concerning invitation wording.  If the Emily Post gurus tell you that something is wrong, believe it! 
    The most conservative etiquette guide is currently Miss Manners, a.k.a. Judith Martin. She still hates pre-printed RSVP cards, which are used by most brides since the 1980s.   Most people fall somewhere in between the two.
    This is a good point, actually.  If Emily Post Institute thinks something is wrong, it's really fucking wrong. 
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    "I'm not a rude bitch.  I'm ten rude bitches in a large coat."

    rajahmdluckysnorkelhuskypuppy14
  • Baby Sowers for second children. Emily Post said yes, but it might have been the institute. I have read articles and posts on here and have gotten mixed reviews. I went to the bump and posted. A few ladies responded with the same answers. I have worked so hard to host my wedding guest properly, that I don't want to turn around and look like an idiot with the baby shower that I have already offered to host.

    The only thing I found online from Miss Manners said that a full blown shower inviting everyone they mother knows is a no-no, but a less formal gathering of family and close friends is fine. I spoke to some of the women in the family (my mom and one aunt) to see what they think about the second baby small shower. They said they thought the small gathering was appropriate.

    I already offered to throw the shower, and started buying gifts (way before offering to host because I love to buy for babies).
    MairePoppy
  • You might find that some people are reluctant to attend a shower for someone who is having a second child.  It is generous of you to offer, but do be sensitive to the feeling of any guests.  Personally, I don't think I would attend, but I might buy a gift after the baby is born.
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  • HaileyDancingbearHaileyDancingbear Arkham Asylum member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Baby Sowers for second children. Emily Post said yes, but it might have been the institute. I have read articles and posts on here and have gotten mixed reviews. I went to the bump and posted. A few ladies responded with the same answers. I have worked so hard to host my wedding guest properly, that I don't want to turn around and look like an idiot with the baby shower that I have already offered to host.

    The only thing I found online from Miss Manners said that a full blown shower inviting everyone they mother knows is a no-no, but a less formal gathering of family and close friends is fine. I spoke to some of the women in the family (my mom and one aunt) to see what they think about the second baby small shower. They said they thought the small gathering was appropriate.

    I already offered to throw the shower, and started buying gifts (way before offering to host because I love to buy for babies).
    Ok, I don't have kids nor do my friends have any, so I am completely clueless about this- Why would this be considered rude, what reasons have people given you?  I don't see why the second kid should be any less celebrated than the first.  

    If you have trouble deciding between one source, it might just be best to analyze the answers you receive on both sides and see who has the best argument either for or against.  Honestly unless the people against it can explain why having a second shower would actually inconvenience or offend anyone, I'd just do it.  I view etiquette as just avoiding upsetting people (Within reason, some people are nuts) which is why I wouldn't split a couple on my invites, but IDGAF which fork I eat a salad with.  
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    Teddy917
  • Baby Sowers for second children. Emily Post said yes, but it might have been the institute. I have read articles and posts on here and have gotten mixed reviews. I went to the bump and posted. A few ladies responded with the same answers. I have worked so hard to host my wedding guest properly, that I don't want to turn around and look like an idiot with the baby shower that I have already offered to host.

    The only thing I found online from Miss Manners said that a full blown shower inviting everyone they mother knows is a no-no, but a less formal gathering of family and close friends is fine. I spoke to some of the women in the family (my mom and one aunt) to see what they think about the second baby small shower. They said they thought the small gathering was appropriate.

    I already offered to throw the shower, and started buying gifts (way before offering to host because I love to buy for babies).
    Ok, I don't have kids nor do my friends have any, so I am completely clueless about this- Why would this be considered rude, what reasons have people given you?  I don't see why the second kid should be any less celebrated than the first.  

    If you have trouble deciding between one source, it might just be best to analyze the answers you receive on both sides and see who has the best argument either for or against.  Honestly unless the people against it can explain why having a second shower would actually inconvenience or offend anyone, I'd just do it.  I view etiquette as just avoiding upsetting people (Within reason, some people are nuts) which is why I wouldn't split a couple on my invites, but IDGAF which fork I eat a salad with.  
    It is considered rude by people who feel that the purpose of a shower is to welcome a woman to motherhood not to celebrate the specific baby.  Many also feel that the parent(s) should have kept everything from for the first baby and therefore it's "gift grabby" to have a second shower when they should have most (obviously you can't reuse some things) of what they need.  

    I personally don't have a problem with them because if I'm close to you I'm going to get a gift for the baby regardless of it being your first or your tenth.  
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  • APDSS22APDSS22 O-K-L-A-H-O-M-A is OK member
    Fifth Anniversary 1000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer

    Baby Sowers for second children. Emily Post said yes, but it might have been the institute. I have read articles and posts on here and have gotten mixed reviews. I went to the bump and posted. A few ladies responded with the same answers. I have worked so hard to host my wedding guest properly, that I don't want to turn around and look like an idiot with the baby shower that I have already offered to host.

    The only thing I found online from Miss Manners said that a full blown shower inviting everyone they mother knows is a no-no, but a less formal gathering of family and close friends is fine. I spoke to some of the women in the family (my mom and one aunt) to see what they think about the second baby small shower. They said they thought the small gathering was appropriate.

    I already offered to throw the shower, and started buying gifts (way before offering to host because I love to buy for babies).
    Ok, I don't have kids nor do my friends have any, so I am completely clueless about this- Why would this be considered rude, what reasons have people given you?  I don't see why the second kid should be any less celebrated than the first.  

    If you have trouble deciding between one source, it might just be best to analyze the answers you receive on both sides and see who has the best argument either for or against.  Honestly unless the people against it can explain why having a second shower would actually inconvenience or offend anyone, I'd just do it.  I view etiquette as just avoiding upsetting people (Within reason, some people are nuts) which is why I wouldn't split a couple on my invites, but IDGAF which fork I eat a salad with.  
    I believe the theory is you are throwing the shower to help the soon-to-be parents transition to parenthood much like a wedding shower showers the couple with gifts to help them set up their new home.  It's for the couple, not the baby.  The idea is that most of the gifts can be used again for subsequent children (not diapers, but the crib sheets, onesies, stroller, etc.)

    It's somewhat tacky to constantly invite presents from people.  A little get together to celebrate a life entering the world with cake and refreshments is tasteful but it's easy to go overboard into the Tacky Zone.  Just be sensitive to possible problems and try to host the event with as much class as possible.

  • Baby Sowers for second children. Emily Post said yes, but it might have been the institute. I have read articles and posts on here and have gotten mixed reviews. I went to the bump and posted. A few ladies responded with the same answers. I have worked so hard to host my wedding guest properly, that I don't want to turn around and look like an idiot with the baby shower that I have already offered to host.

    The only thing I found online from Miss Manners said that a full blown shower inviting everyone they mother knows is a no-no, but a less formal gathering of family and close friends is fine. I spoke to some of the women in the family (my mom and one aunt) to see what they think about the second baby small shower. They said they thought the small gathering was appropriate.

    I already offered to throw the shower, and started buying gifts (way before offering to host because I love to buy for babies).
    Ok, I don't have kids nor do my friends have any, so I am completely clueless about this- Why would this be considered rude, what reasons have people given you?  I don't see why the second kid should be any less celebrated than the first.  

    If you have trouble deciding between one source, it might just be best to analyze the answers you receive on both sides and see who has the best argument either for or against.  Honestly unless the people against it can explain why having a second shower would actually inconvenience or offend anyone, I'd just do it.  I view etiquette as just avoiding upsetting people (Within reason, some people are nuts) which is why I wouldn't split a couple on my invites, but IDGAF which fork I eat a salad with.  
    A baby shower isn't a celebration for the kid. How can it be, it's still in the uterus. The baby shower is to help the mom (and dad!) prepare for parenthood. Somewhat like a bridal shower. So a baby shower for a second child would be like a bridal shower for a vow renewal.



    Some people give leeway if it's been awhile since the first child. Others if it's a different gender. I personally don't agree with either of those reasons, especially the gender one. Little Baby Boy isn't going to lay awake crying into his breast milk just because his onesie is *gasp* pink.

    Some people in my circle don't care. Usually those are the mothers in my circle. Others don't mind "sprinkles" which are just much smaller versions of a shower.

    OP, what Miss Manners is talking about is probably a "sprinkle." You would invite just the people the mom-to-be is most close with. Her mom, maybe her MIL (SO's mother), maybe sisters, best friends, that sort of thing. It honestly really does depend on the MTB and how her social group works. I honestly think that if it gets to the point where YOU feel uncomfortable, then there is probably a reason for it lol.

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    luckysnorkel
  • Baby Sowers for second children. Emily Post said yes, but it might have been the institute. I have read articles and posts on here and have gotten mixed reviews. I went to the bump and posted. A few ladies responded with the same answers. I have worked so hard to host my wedding guest properly, that I don't want to turn around and look like an idiot with the baby shower that I have already offered to host.

    The only thing I found online from Miss Manners said that a full blown shower inviting everyone they mother knows is a no-no, but a less formal gathering of family and close friends is fine. I spoke to some of the women in the family (my mom and one aunt) to see what they think about the second baby small shower. They said they thought the small gathering was appropriate.

    I already offered to throw the shower, and started buying gifts (way before offering to host because I love to buy for babies).
    Ok, I don't have kids nor do my friends have any, so I am completely clueless about this- Why would this be considered rude, what reasons have people given you?  I don't see why the second kid should be any less celebrated than the first.  

    If you have trouble deciding between one source, it might just be best to analyze the answers you receive on both sides and see who has the best argument either for or against.  Honestly unless the people against it can explain why having a second shower would actually inconvenience or offend anyone, I'd just do it.  I view etiquette as just avoiding upsetting people (Within reason, some people are nuts) which is why I wouldn't split a couple on my invites, but IDGAF which fork I eat a salad with.  
    A baby shower isn't a celebration for the kid. How can it be, it's still in the uterus. The baby shower is to help the mom (and dad!) prepare for parenthood. Somewhat like a bridal shower. So a baby shower for a second child would be like a bridal shower for a vow renewal.



    Some people give leeway if it's been awhile since the first child. Others if it's a different gender. I personally don't agree with either of those reasons, especially the gender one. Little Baby Boy isn't going to lay awake crying into his breast milk just because his onesie is *gasp* pink.

    Some people in my circle don't care. Usually those are the mothers in my circle. Others don't mind "sprinkles" which are just much smaller versions of a shower.

    OP, what Miss Manners is talking about is probably a "sprinkle." You would invite just the people the mom-to-be is most close with. Her mom, maybe her MIL (SO's mother), maybe sisters, best friends, that sort of thing. It honestly really does depend on the MTB and how her social group works. I honestly think that if it gets to the point where YOU feel uncomfortable, then there is probably a reason for it lol.

    Another situation where leeway is often given is if the pregnancy was lost prior to birth or the baby died shortly after birth.  In those case people do want to celebrate the new pregnancy and it's not uncommon for parents in those situations to have gotten rid of everything because it is just too painful to look at.  
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  • Second showers usually get side-eyed if they are big. The traditional goal of a shower is to help the new parents 'set up shop' so to speak. By the second kid, they should be using hand-me-downs, not shaking everyone down like a money tree.

    I prefer it when people do small intimate gender reveal parties for second children, where the point is to just have a 'yay babies!' party.

    Now, there are of course exceptions. Say there was a miscarriage and the mother threw out all her original stuff because it was too painful to keep. Or if she got divorced and dumped a lot of personal items to move out and start a new life and family. There are always exceptions.
    Don't make me mobilize OffensiveKitten

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    Anniversary

  • I'm from Ontario (just to give reference) and we very rarely give second showers.  However, we usually have a get-together for new babies and usually buy a little outfit or something for the new baby.  The only time I ever heard a second shower mentioned was for my cousin who had just gotten rid of all (yes, ALL) of her baby stuff because she wasn't planning on having another child.  The baby was also a boy when she had had girls.  A second shower was mentioned as a passing thought but never happened. 
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  • HaileyDancingbearHaileyDancingbear Arkham Asylum member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Ah I see, thanks guys.  Although I don't fully agree with the idea that the parents might not need anything.  Even for the second kid, you still could use stuff- I mean first off, diapers are always useful. If every guest didn't know what the parent already had and just brought diapers to be safe, that would still be super useful to the new parent.  Also, you never know what baby clothes got ruined by the first kid.  Maybe that onesie that the parent got at the first shower fell victim to a big diaper leak and got thrown away.  Maybe baby 2 is going to be a few pounds heavier than baby 1 and the old stuff won't even fit.  Of course again this is just my opinion and I admit I don't know a lot about this subject.  

    I do think it could be doable for OP, especially given how etiquette-concsious she seems, to avoid having a shower that seems too big or gift-grabby.  And I think it would be more rude to offer a shower then just change your mind than to just have the second shower.  
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  • APDSS22APDSS22 O-K-L-A-H-O-M-A is OK member
    Fifth Anniversary 1000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    As an additional thought: last weekend the husband and I were invited to a baby shower thrown for a work friend of my husband.  He is significantly older than his soon to be bride so he already has children but this will be her first.  Since most of the people were work acquaintances of the soon to be daddy, there were going to be a lot of guys present.  They did a "huggies and chuggies" everyone showed up with diapers and the hosts provided refreshment in the form of beer, lemonade and traditional chips and salsa, cookies, etc.  It was basically a regular party with a pile of diapers in the corner and I liked it immensely. 

    [Deleted User]
  • Ah I see, thanks guys.  Although I don't fully agree with the idea that the parents might not need anything.  Even for the second kid, you still could use stuff- I mean first off, diapers are always useful. If every guest didn't know what the parent already had and just brought diapers to be safe, that would still be super useful to the new parent.  Also, you never know what baby clothes got ruined by the first kid.  Maybe that onesie that the parent got at the first shower fell victim to a big diaper leak and got thrown away.  Maybe baby 2 is going to be a few pounds heavier than baby 1 and the old stuff won't even fit.  Of course again this is just my opinion and I admit I don't know a lot about this subject.  


    I do think it could be doable for OP, especially given how etiquette-concsious she seems, to avoid having a shower that seems too big or gift-grabby.  And I think it would be more rude to offer a shower then just change your mind than to just have the second shower.  
    The idea is that the baby shower helps new parents to be set up to be first time parents.

    As I said above, baby showers for multiple children are like bridal showers for vow renewals. Should brides register every five years if their plates chip? Same goes for onesies.
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    huskypuppy14
  • MairePoppyMairePoppy Connecticut mod
    Moderator Ninth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its
    A small, casual baby shower is fine. The invitees are free to decline the invitation if they don't want to attend. If I was invited to one, I would bring a smaller gift than I would for the first - diapers, onesies, nightgowns etc... That said, my crowd usually gives showers for first babies.
                       
  •    In my family it's common to have a shower for every baby. We like to get together and eat cake and we all like to shop for presents. I threw one for my sister, her second child was 17 years after her first. Same father, it was a surprise :)

       I asked on etiquette hell about it first. They said absolutely not, even if she had her last baby 17 years ago she should have kept all the stuff. My thought was "who would keep all the stuff for 17 years and some of it is probably no longer considered safe!" not to mention her first was a girl and this one is a boy. 

       What I ended up doing was throwing a family only part and only invited one or two close friends who specifically asked and weren't around for the first child. I didn't do games, it was just to socialize and eat and look at cute baby stuff. Someone may have side-eyed me, but I doubt anyone invited did. My family is etiquettely inept and my Brother-in-laws family is even more so and I doubt anyone noticed. The few friends there asked to come. 

       A lot of times if the kids are closer the second showers in our family are for diapers and other consumables only and don't include a lot of friends. It's just how we roll.  
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