Don't know what to do (longish)

NavyBlue143 · July 2014

A few months back, we bought a truck from my dad. H never did the legwork required to get the registration in his name, and the registration sticker expired last month. I have reminded him, my dad has reminded him, nothing. On top of that, before H got a new tolltag for the new truck, he used some toll roads. My dad got billed for it. He contacted H and offered to pay it, H said no, he'd take care of it. So he emailed H a copy. This was a month ago. Last week my dad got a notice of nonpayment so he contacted H again and then emailed him another copy of the bill, now with a late fee attached.

I was visiting my parents today and my dad asked me about it. I took the bill and gave it to H when I got home. I asked him if he had called to take care of it. There's no phone number, he claimed, he sent an email after talking to my dad on Friday. I point out the phone number on the bill. He snaps back that he didn't have the bill, that my dad had it. I point out that my dad emailed him a copy, twice, so yes he did. Also, the number is on the mobile website. Well I was on the laptop, not the mobile website, he says. So I pull up the full site. The number is on the fucking home page! Rather prominently! He shrugs, oh well.

So I call, and once I get off hold, hand the phone to him. 10 minutes, taken care of. In the grand scheme of things, it's a toll bill he forgot about, NBD. However, he does this with our regular bills (which is why I pay all of them) medical bills, scheduling doctor's appointments and getting test results back, and even dealing with his dad about the money he owes for the house he rents from us and checking the mortgage website to make sure it was paid this month which it almost never is, the man is always at least a month behind. We have almost lost that house twice and he still won't do anything. He just lets things go unpaid, unresolved, whatever. I can't be the one who keeps pushing him to take care of his business. He is 32 years old.

I don't know if this is typical of ADHD or if it's just childish laziness. He seems to think it's just his ADHD so it can't be helped. I've expressed my frustration several times, he agrees it's unfair to me, promises to try harder, nothing changes, then he calls me a nag when I remind him he has bills to pay or things to do! I don't want to be a nag, but when I nicely remind or ask the first two times and there are no results, and we're up to our eyeballs in collection threats for his $23 medical bills and $6 tolls, and foreclosure threats on our rental house, I'm going to get angry. Then he does something. He acknowledges that he waits until I get angry because he can put it off until then, but then gets pissed at me for getting angry and claims nothing he does is ever good enough. I can't win, and it's becoming very, very tiresome. I'm tired of being a mother to my 32 year old husband. I'm contemplating separation. Help?

JCbride2015 · July 2014

Gosh, this sounds really hard to deal with. Hang in there.

First, I think you are generally correct that this isn't just ADHD. My dad has ADHD, it didn't even get diagnosed until he was about 40, and yeah he did some shitty impulsive stuff, but he was able to be a functioning adult and get his bills paid. I assume if your H knows he has ADHD he's being treated, so he should be able to handle paying bills. This mostly sounds like procrastination.

But the bigger problem I see is how he reacts to you. He's belittling your concerns and pushing the work off onto you. That's really unacceptable. Then he backs you into a corner by waiting until you're angry, then getting pissed you're angry.

This is also a danger for your own financial well-being, as I'm sure you know. If these are joint accounts being put into collection, that's bad for your credit report as well as his.

But really I think you've said exactly how you feel here: "He acknowledges that he waits until I get angry because he can put it off until then, but then gets pissed at me for getting angry and claims nothing he does is ever good enough. I can't win, and it's becoming very, very tiresome. I'm tired of being a mother to my 32 year old husband. I'm contemplating separation." You sound pretty fed up with the current state of things, and that is totally valid.

Do you have a viable plan for living alone if you separate? How do you feel about your relationship besides this issue? Would you have support from family and friends?

Do you think counseling is an option?

NavyBlue143 · July 2014

He is not on medication for his ADHD, if that's what you mean. I have asked him a few times to see a doctor or counselor about it. But it goes nowhere. We did see a counselor a year ago about these issues, and she specialized in ADHD among other things. She told him to schedule his free time down to the minute if that's what it took to get things done, and gave him some scheduling apps and ideas to try. He never did them. If I don't make the schedule or plan, it doesn't get done. He's gotten a little better over the year, but not much. Not enough, which is where he gets his nothing is ever good enough attitude. A slight improvement (which I acknowledge and praise) does not mean he gets to stop trying, but in his eyes it means I need to stop getting mad.

The rental house was his before we even met, so it doesn't affect me, but it will if he loses it and we try to buy a bigger house soon. Our joint bills are all paid by me, it's his medical bills and such that go to collection, mine get paid promptly.

My parents would gladly let me stay with them until I got on my feet. I work, so my bills would be paid. I don't want this marriage to fail, and I so badly want children, but although he'd be a great dad, he's a lousy partner and I won't bring a baby into this mess. It would only out more stress on me because I'd have to manage three lives instead of the two I manage now.

AddieCake · July 2014

This is definitely a serious issue. Something needs to be done to get him to be less nonchalant about important things like bills.

JCbride2015 · July 2014

Does he want kids? Have you tried explaining how you are reluctant to make him responsible for a child if he can't even be responsible for himself?

Does he know you're so fed up you're thinking of separation?

NavyBlue143 · July 2014

I told him about a month ago to fix this thing with his dad or I was gone. That I shouldn't have to nag him about something as important as keeping tabs on a house in his name. Nothing has been said or done.

He wants kids, but is in no hurry. He knows I won't have a baby until he straightens up his act and stops putting himself in danger of foreclosure. He knows I won't have a family with a man who can't take care of himself, because how is he supposed to help me with things like appointments and PTA and soccer practice? We live in a 3 bedroom house but have no room for a baby because he insists on having a hobby room and we have so many books we have a library. That's insane to me but perfectly acceptable to him.

The more I type, the more I wonder why the hell I've put up with this crap for two years.

CMGragain · July 2014

My son has severe ADD from birth trauma. (Oxygen deprivation)
Your husband should have received treatment as soon as he was diagnosed. ADHD (or ADD) is a medical condition, and it must be treated with medicine AND counseling. The fact that your husband never received this, I lay on his parents' doorstep. I am sure teachers begged them to get medical help for him.
He will always have ADHD, and, yes, this is typical behavior. Medication could change his life, but not if he refuses to take it. It is a form of brain damage. All the counseling in the world will not change this medical condition. It can help him learn to cope with it, but it won't change it.
My son has learned many ways of coping with his disability. For instance, his bills are paid automatically so he doesn't forget about them. He carries an electronic organizer with alarms to remind him of appointments. He screws up frequently, but he has learned to apologize when he does and to take responsibility.
If you are expecting your husband to change, this will not happen unless he is willing to seek medical help. If he is not willing, you are enabling him to continue being irresponsible. It is no more possible for him to remember things than it is for a quadriplegic patient to stand up and walk. Medication could change his life.
YOU need counseling to sort out your feelings. Why did you marry a man if you wanted him to change his basic behavior? Why are you acting as his mother? These are very important questions for you to ask yourself.

NavyBlue143 · July 2014

If he couldn't remember anything at all, it would be different. But he remembers or makes time to do things like bowling, D&D, when he played WoW he remembered when raids were without having to be reminded. He remembers birthdays, anniversaries, parties, concert dates, and when his favorite internet people release new blogs and videos. He never has to be reminded about fun things. It's just not fun stuff he drags his feet on or ignores. He's not incapable of remembering anything, and I don't appreciate being told I'm asking the impossible when research, a licensed therapist, and my own evidence tells me I'm not. He's even admitted to me that most things he doesn't actually forget so much as put off until he can't anymore because it isn't fun or pleasant.

And we did not live together before we got married, so while I knew he needed help staying on task, I wasn't aware how bad it was.

And I have stopped enabling him, aside from this toll bill because it would have affected my father had it gone to collections. If his medical bills or whatever go to collections, his problem. If he loses his house, I'm leaving him. I pay our joint bills because it affects me too, but otherwise I place the pile of bills before him and leave it to his judgement. I used to just pay those too, I don't anymore. This issue today just sent me over the edge.

CMGragain · July 2014

My severely ADD son is a computer software engineer, employed by a large corporation supporting national defense. Obviously, he can function, with the help of medication. When something is in his field of interest, he has an amazing memory. For many ordinary things, he does not. He procrastinates, just like your husband. He once forgot about a final exam in college, and he had to retake the class.
Like I said, your husband cannot control much of his behavior without a lot of effort and medication. The part of his brain that governs organization is not working properly. (Pre-frontal lobe). This also affects impulsiveness and anger. Stimulant medication is often successful because it stimulates the brain receptors, and allows it to function more like a normal brain. This does not affect intelligence or personality. Unfortunately, these medications have side affects that can be unpleasant.
There are many therapists. You have seen one. He should be evaluated by a Psychiatrist (This is a medical condition!) who will work together with a psychologist (therapist) to help your husband - IF he wants to change. I hear that YOU want him to change. Does HE want to change?

RebeccaB88 · July 2014

I have ADD (not ADHD). The thing about ADD is that yes, it is a difference in how the brain processes different things, like organization and external stimuli. It's a medical condition. It also affects the way you get things done in day to day life, UNLESS you put the time and energy into learning skills to overcome the disorder so you can do the same things that everyone else does.

It is NOT an excuse to hide from responsibility. Procrastination of unpleasant things in favor of more pleasant things is a hallmark of ADD. The brain remembers things that give us pleasure. So yes, he can remember gaming stats, but paying his car insurance gets pushed aside, especially if making that payment means he has less money to game with. But it sound like he is content to blame everything on his ADD, as if he's a victim of it, not someone who could be in control of it if he chose to be. And that's a very childish, immature thing to do.

All the therapy, taking medication, using reminders, following a schedule, setting and making appointments, etc, are all things that are by their very nature, against the ADD brain. They require foresight, thought, and attention - all things that ADD people find difficult to impossible to do. The medication and therapy help make it possible to concentrate more, slow down thought processes, and follow a plan, but only if you take the medication (which involves making and going to the doctor, getting the prescription filled, taking it daily, then repeat the next month...) and put effort into the therapy process. If he can't or isn't willing to do that, then you have a choice to make. Only you can make that choice.

I still, to this day, struggle with procrastination. I hate making phone calls. Even if it's just to make an appointment, something simple, it's easy for me to put it off. Same with bill paying. It's work to follow a payment plan, check my e-bill statement each payday to see what's next to be paid, keep track of what I can't pay electronically, etc. My mortgage payment is on auto debit from my checking account, but I pay other bills manually online because of my payday schedule. It's something I have to stay on top of every week, or yes, things get cut off because I space out. It's not that it's unpleasant to do (calling to pay a late bill to get a service restored is way more unpleasant), but it's just not 'important' to our brains, if that makes sense. But, I'm an adult and I have responsibilities. So I slap myself a few times and do it, because, you know, the adult thing.

I had to get help for myself as an adult, because I was a kid in the 1970s, when ADD was a brand new diagnosis, and a lot of doctors didn't believe it was real yet. They thought that kind of behavior should be 'disciplined out' of a kid. There was also only ADHD - the hyperactivity component was considered mandatory. I don't have that, mine is ADD - inattentive type, and I was able to hide my lack of attention pretty easily in elementary school, and do just enough to slide by after that (even in college). Only Ritalin existed, and you had to have a severe case to get it prescribed. It was only when I was an adult and I realized that my procrastination, memory problems, inattentiveness, and restlessness was a major problem and I needed help, went and paid for my own testing, and started Adderall. I only wish we'd known what I know now, back then.

@NavyBlue143 - what did your H do in these situations before you got married? Did he let everything go to collections or get shut off, and was he constantly trying to dodge lawsuits or getting services back on? Or did his parents do stuff for him? Did he not live on his own where he'd need to handle this stuff? I'm just thinking, if this is an ongoing thing, then you may well never be able to buy a house, because his credit may never recover.

misshart00 · July 2014

How did he function and pay bills before you got married?

NavyBlue143 · July 2014

@misshart00‌ He didn't. His mortgage payment was always late and his electricity was turned off every few months. Some bills like water, cell, and insurance are auto debited, but others he claims he's been screwed over on before and so he wants to see the bill first. Now I pay bills and we have a google calendar of when things are due. It doesn't help much because it sends one reminder and if he can't do it right then, he forgets. So I just do it. I used to pay his medical bills too but have phased that into being his responsibility, hoping to eventually asign other bills to him as he improved. It hasn't been going well. He did finally pay one massive one the other day, six months after we initially got it.

We did talk this evening, and while he's been under enormous stress at work (also a software engineer) he acknowledges that it isn't an excuse, and that if he knows he won't be able to stay on track that he needs to be honest and tell me rather than say he'll take care of it. That way I can help him focus rather than resent him after the fact. He knows I'm at a breaking point, but he doesn't know how to fix it, so he just carries on and waits for the fallout like he always did before I came along and like his parents did. We're going back to counseling once he's no longer working 80 hour weeks, and he is going back to his doctor to see about getting on medication. He's been putting it off but knows he can't anymore. He admits he's been putting off handling his dad because he just doesn't have the emotional capacity right now. That's fair, his job is immensely stressful right now and his dad is a huge jackass. I told him once this project is over, he had to take care of it for good, but we'll table it until then because for the moment the man is caught up anyway. Project is over in another week. One more week won't matter.

I'm ill equipped to handle this because my parents are super responsible people, and anything less was never, ever excusable. So I need tools for recognizing when he's overwhelmed and needs help, because I expect him to be able to just do it. We both need a game plan for getting him organized and on a schedule. He needs to find a way to manage rather than just make excuses. And he has to want to change for himself, not just to keep me around. He doesn't like being stuck in his life, he doesn't like where he is or how he handles things. He knows he needs help. Obviously what we're doing isn't working, so we're going to try to improve if we can. I'm not giving him a free pass, and I let it be known that I expect a better effort to manage his disorder, and I'll do what I can to support and encourage but I won't take over for him anymore. He can't just expect me to take care of everything because it's easier. I'm not naive, I know we'll struggle with this forever, but I also know he has been coasting lately, and that's my fault as well as his. He is capable of better. I'm a big believer in show, don't tell, so we'll see if once he's done being a slave to his job he will make good on his promises to get help. He knows it's his last chance.

lyndausvi · July 2014

My husband is anal about paying rent/mortgage and the car payment. He is NEVER late with those. Even though they are on auto-pay he double checks to make sure they are paid.

Other bills like electric, credit cards and medical bills he sounds just like your H. It use to drive me crazy.

Now some people might think that is unfair to me to be solely responsible for all those and I get it. Now granted I'm the queen of justification, but how I look at it is I had most of those bills before I met DH and I will have most of them if DH was no longer around (for whatever reason). Why NOT be responsible for them just because we are married?

We all have strengths and weaknesses in this world. I'm a horrible cook. DH is horrible at paying certain bills. Our strengths are the opposite.

So for my own sanity I choose to take on the bill paying role. Trust me when I say DH has other roles instead.

NavyBlue143 · July 2014

Also, @CMGragain‌ please understand, my younger brother has Aspergers, so I do understand that my husband may not ever be able to function on the same level as I do. I have experience in that regard, although with a different disorder. Although I do not always like it, I do understand and try to adjust my expectations accordingly. I do not always succeed, but I do try to be mindful of his limitations. My frustration is the attitude of "I have this disorder, so I can't." He probably will not ever be able to function as I do since his brain is simply not wired that way, but I find it very hard to believe that he cannot find a way to manage better than he is now.

CMGragain · July 2014

NavyBlue143 said:

Also, @CMGragain‌ please understand, my younger brother has Aspergers, so I do understand that my husband may not ever be able to function on the same level as I do. I have experience in that regard, although with a different disorder. Although I do not always like it, I do understand and try to adjust my expectations accordingly. I do not always succeed, but I do try to be mindful of his limitations. My frustration is the attitude of "I have this disorder, so I can't." He probably will not ever be able to function as I do since his brain is simply not wired that way, but I find it very hard to believe that he cannot find a way to manage better than he is now.

When my son was in the 6th grade, he had a classmate who also had ADHD. Both boys were supposed to go to the nurse to get their meds at the same time.
One day, I was in the school for some reason, and both boys came running down the hall and slammed right into me. My son stopped and said, "Mom! Are you all right? I'm so sorry I was running in the hall. I shouldn't have done that." The other boy got up and ran away without a word. Well, I ran after him and grabbed him while my son was apologizing. The other boy yelled, "It's not my fault! I have ADD!" I informed him that having ADD was no excuse for rude behavior, and I insisted he do the right thing and apologize. He did, mostly because I scared him. (Former teacher.)
The other boy was expelled for giving out his ritalin to classmates. We heard later that his mother had been selling his meds on the street, too. He wound up with Social Services, and eventually in juvinal detention. Very sad.
My son has worried me his entire life. I have done as much as I can for him. He is 31 years old. He's on his own, now. I pray for him every day. He is a good, moral, loving man, but he is a MESS!! At least he has a job that suits him, and is self supporting. I don't know if he will ever find a woman who is willing to take him on as he is, but if he ever finds her, I will be the sweetest MIL ever! The poor girl! I know what she will go through.
Not all medications works for all ADHD. I hope your husband is lucky enough to find one that helps. My son said (at age 7) that it was like a miracle from God. He told me that now he could keep his mind calm, like other people. I cried.

lc07 · July 2014

I admittedly did not read all of the PPs. But please be careful. In many states you are liable for your spouse's debt regardless of who racked it up if it occurred during your married life. (I'm not a lawyer but I have a little experience with divorce in the state I live in). Collectors can come after you, legally, and you would have to sue your H (or ex-H) to be re-paid.

I strongly suggest counseling at least once weekly. You are in a partnership that is not a partnership at this point. I'm really sorry, OP.

kmmssg · July 2014

I have ADD and was diagnosed in my 40's. Just the diagnosis was a great weight lifted off my shoulders. I realized I wasn't the failure I thought I was and that I had a medical condition. I take Concerta and wish I could take a higher dose. I have to max out at 36mg because if I go to 52 it makes my heart race and we aren't even going there. I also have chronic depression - that is a really sucky combo. What I don't procrastinate with from the ADD gets covered by the depression.

@CMGragain - thank you for sharing your experiences with your son. I have been dealing with this for 8 or 9 years now and I appreciate reading things from your perspective. I don't have a lot of peers my age who have ADD (as far as I know anyway) so I haven't really talked to many others about it besides my doctor and a counselor. Thanks for sharing!

@RebeccaB88 - thank you also for sharing your experience. This really has made me feel better and to also think about other things I can do to manage this more efficiently.

NavyBlue143 · July 2014

lc07 said:
I admittedly did not read all of the PPs. But please be careful. In many states you are liable for your spouse's debt regardless of who racked it up if it occurred during your married life. (I'm not a lawyer but I have a little experience with divorce in the state I live in). Collectors can come after you, legally, and you would have to sue your H (or ex-H) to be re-paid.

I strongly suggest counseling at least once weekly. You are in a partnership that is not a partnership at this point. I'm really sorry, OP.

This is why I won't let the man have a credit card. He's on mine in case of emergency, but only because his problem is not poor impulse control but rather inabilty to pay a bill. He mentioned getting a credit card a few days ago and I just looked at him and asked him if he would honestly pay it off every month or if I'd have to remind him. He dropped the subject. I cannot handle one more account to keep tabs on. I can't.

The way I understand it, they cannot come after me for debts aquired before the marriage. So his mortgage woes are his own. A defaulted credit card he swears he paid off that collectors keep harrassing him about is his own problem. He wants to bury his head in the sand, fine. He knows I won't bail him out. Now his only debts are these medical bills, which do get paid off eventually. I don't want you thinking we're under a mountain of unpaid bills. He just waits til the damn things go to collections or we get a notice that they will, and I get furious. Then he pays it so I won't yell anymore. His credit never will recover if he's content to let things go to collections before he acts. And that's something we will discuss in counseling.

emmyg65 · July 2014

This is a very serious issue that needs to be addressed right now. First, his inability to stay on top of basic tasks is having a negative impact on your lives. But more important, he's refusing to take responsibility for his actions, which I find very troubling.

I have ADD and have developed many coping strategies to minimize its impact on my life. For example, I have my accounts set up so that all my bills are paid automatically. I keep lists and use my phone to prompt me with reminders.

Admittedly, my ADD is pretty mild, but a good therapist can teach your husband skills for coping with his ADHD even if it's more severe. Using his disease as a crutch is unacceptable. Get thee to counseling, stat.

Don't know what to do (longish)

Re: Don't know what to do (longish)

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