Okcupid experiment - how do we feel about this?

Blue & White · July 2014

I'm on my phone so don't know if I can do a link but: http://money.cnn.com/2014/07/28/technology/social/okcupid-experiment/index.html

Cliffs notes: okcupid lied about compatibility and noticed people were more likely to have conversations with those you were "more compatible" with.

My issue with this and the Facebook one recently (and likely others I don't know about) is that...there's no informed consent? Or is there and I just didn't read the fine print of face book enough? I know when I was required to participate in psych experiments at college (a requirement for psych 101) I always had to sign an informed consent and could walk at any time if I felt uncomfortable. Plus, they had to debrief me on the results afterwards. How is this different?

bethsmiles · July 2014

I absolutely think it's unacceptable if they did not have informed consent and IMO sticking it someone in a huge wall of text to sign up for the site doesn't = informed consent. As a researcher you should make anyone participating in your study is 100% aware that they are participating. Yes, that leaves your research open to skewed data because people change when they know they are being observed but it's just something you have to learn to deal with in research.

This makes me super ragey actually.

eilis1228 · July 2014

I don't think there was necessarily "informed consent" in the sense that users signed a waiver that flat out stated they were participating in an experiment. I think the terms of service instead basically say that anything you post is the property of the website, and they can do whatever they want with that data, which apparently includes emotional manipulation. I'm on the fence with how I feel about it. I mean, with the Facebook experiment and this one, what harm was really done? But on the other hand, what else do they have planned in the future? How far will they go with the experiments? Plus, if they were to put a notice on the top of the screen saying they were doing an experiment and allow you the option to opt in or opt out, it would potentially change how and what you post and therefore skew the results. They have the ability to find out some really interesting trends/behaviors in modern society, so they could potentially come up with some groundbreaking findings... but at what cost to us? I'm pretty torn on the issue.

bookishgiraffes · July 2014

I'm torn with the issue. For example, as far as we know, there was no harm done. On the other hand, as a user of the site, I would have at least liked to have been aware, though I know that changes results and what not. Plus, like @eilis1228 said, how far could these experiments go, and to what cost?

I told my boyfriend jokingly that our whole relationship might have been based on a lie, since I messaged him because we had a high compatibility. But it seems to have worked for us regardless, so I can't complain too much!

bethsmiles · July 2014

I would argue that there is harm done. People are on OKCupid to find someone compatible with them. They use the services with the belief that they are being matched up with someone compatible and they were lied to and were connected with people the site believed they weren't compatible with. What if they missed out on finding someone awesome to date because the site decided to lie? I mean what if any of you missed out on meeting your SO because you were lied to?

I think it sucks. It's messing with people's lives and just because it wasn't physical harm or something more obvious doesn't mean harm wasn't caused.

[Deleted User] · July 2014

Yea, if OK Cupid lied I'd better break up with SO right now. He might not be who I thought he was!

Passing something off as truth (something calculated, for example) when it is a lie is complete crap. It could have been just as much of an experiment if they told you first "The compatibility factor may be true or may be adjusted/made up." and see if it affected peoples choices anyway. Would have been more honest, and still would have gotten a similar result. Something like taking away peoples' pictures? I don't care. They can e-mail you a picture, whatev, and you might be able to get past the physical stuff easier. But don't give someone information and pass it off as truth when it's not, at least not without making it blatantly clear that it may be false from the beginning.

lilacck28 · July 2014

I find it super annoying. That's a big waste of someone's time and emotional energy. I was lucky in that I was only online for two days before talking to Fiance, but he, and others, went through some crappy dates and crappy conversations that were kind of depressing. If those depressing things could have been avoided....

lilacck28 · July 2014

ps- I only read your "cliff notes", so my response was based on an off the cuff assessment

Blue & White · July 2014

@bethsmiles I'm feeling as you are for sure. I would like to think I would have low compatibility with a serial killer for instance - how does okcupid control for accidentally setting up stellar females like us with like...Christopher meloni's worst nightmare? It can't. It doesn't. So if it's manipulating data couldn't that legitimately be putting people at risk for more than just rejection? At least divorce (let's say our money or religious values aren't in line and we rush into things) or ya know, possibly something a lot worse.

If it makes any difference, we had these lame personality tests in Hs and I never got H as one of my matches! Our relationship might also be doomed

Blue & White · July 2014

Also just because there was no harm done doesn't mean it's right. As a chemist, I cannot inject random humans with what I think might be a cure for HIV without their consent. Even if I've proven it's harmless in lots of mice and pigs and monkeys.

Ugh my scientific integrity alarm is pinging all over this shiz

LabLove86 · July 2014

It makes me pretty annoyed. But at the same time - what if BF and I were one of those couples? And he responded because we had 93% compatibility - but REALLY we only had 22% or whatever . . . . then we wouldn't be together now. I do ultimately think its hurtful and disrespectful. BF and I were potentially one of those people lied to - and I don't like that.

KeptInStitches · July 2014

Oh I'm so angry. I'm so angry. I wouldn't trust online dating because of this (moot point because, well, FI but still). You like to think people still have integrity - I'm with you, @blue and @bethsmiles.

eilis1228 · July 2014

I definitely understand the outrage. I'm not at all downplaying the severity of conducting experiments without consent. It's highly unethical, and I do not want to be an unwilling participant in any experiment. I would like to know how my personal information is being used, especially when it's essentially being used against me.

That being said, these websites are businesses. For Facebook, a huge facet of their business is determining what to put on your news feed. They look at who you recently friended, who you comment on the most, whose statuses you liked, recent life events, recent search history, location check ins, etc. Their entire business model essentially depends on tailoring your news feed and its ads to each individual user. It makes total sense that they would try to add an emotional element to it. And again, they're a business. We willingly input our personal information on this website, and we sign the terms of service. Are they super shady with how they manipulate the data? Yes, without a doubt. 100% shady. They're notorious for it. Lord knows what else they've done with the data we voluntarily enter.

Similar explanation for OK Cupid and other dating websites. Their business is based on an algorithm that's supposed to determine emotional compatibility with a stranger. They ask you to answer all sorts of personal questions in order to find potential matches for you. The article posted didn't provide their reasoning for the experiment, but my assumption (which of course may be wrong) is that they were trying to further refine their algorithm. After all, their continued success is based on how well that algorithm works. They've probably done other similar experiments as well. I can't remember which specific dating site does this, but I know one of them regularly publishes "findings" like girls who say they like beer on their profiles are more likely to have one night stands, etc. They've been doing this sort of thing for years, so I guess I'm just a little surprised at the sudden uproar.

All of that being said, the OK Cupid's guy reaction is total bullshit. Super douchey. "That's what websites do." Can we not be so cocky? Can we provide a bit more explanation to the millions of people who use your service and feel betrayed right now? Can we not highlight the ethical issues that come with experimentation without consent? Facebook did a much better job of explaining and subsequently apologizing to the public.

So, as I said, I'm a bit torn. The findings from the research may prove helpful in some important way later down the road that we can't yet foresee, but the method is downright awful. Also, I acknowledge that I'm willingly inputting personal data on websites that are in fact businesses, and their business involves data manipulation. I'm not really surprised or outraged that they're doing this sort of thing when I legally signed off on it when I approved the terms of service. Yes, a heads up would have been preferred. It's an act of good faith to the public in a time when internet privacy concerns are becoming a major issue and will ensure that users continue to use your service. It's really a win-win for them to let us know that they're studying us. Even if they only say, "Hey, we're running an experiment right now. Do you mind if we use your data?" and provide no other explanation to try and keep the data from being skewed, it still lets users know they're potentially being manipulated and lets them opt out. I don't really see how those websites will suffer from that, and it provides additional legal cushioning should a lawyer decide to attempt to do a massive class-action lawsuit (although I don't think that sort of thing would hold up in court because of the terms of service).

My problem with the whole thing is how these experiments will evolve. This is just baby stuff compared to what they could and may possibly already be doing with all of the data they have. Will they learn from all of this backlash? Are these websites working on how to go about conducting experiments with their users in a more ethical way? And who else is running similar experiments? I mean, we upload our lives to Google, Facebook, Twitter, The Knot, etc. but have no idea what's being done with our personal information. It's hard not to use these services though when so much of our social world revolves around them. So, I'm torn. On the one hand, I'm creeped out and nervous. This whole thing reminds me of that Robin Williams movie "One Hour Photo." On the other hand, I voluntarily provided the data to businesses that manipulate data.

I guess the only way to really avoid this sort of thing is to stop putting personal information online.

/novel

bethsmiles · July 2014

Personally, I don't think "they're a business" really cuts it. Unethical is unethical and there would be hell to pay in academics if you did research on people without their INFORMED consent. The business world shouldn't get away with this bullshit just because they are a business. And OKcupid didn't just look at their data, they LIED to people. They changed what people were seeing just to experiment with them. They fucked with people's lives and it's 100% unacceptable. Besides the whole informed consent issue, the lying is what is really pissing me off.

Do I think Facebook should have informed people of their experiment? Yes. But at least they didn't lie. They didn't make up shit and put it on people's newsfeed, your newsfeed still showed things you friends were doing, they just changed what showed up. OkCupid flat out lied. A 90% match showed up as a 10% match on a site where people are assuming their matches mean something and indicate the potential of a possible relationship. It's seriously fucking with people and it's total bullshit.

It's an unethical business practice and an unethical research practice and the more I think about it the more pissed off I get.

Blue & White · July 2014

Yep, I don't think businesses should get a pass that other businesses (i.e. pharmaceutical companies) wouldn't get to perform scientific research.

[Deleted User] · July 2014

bethsmiles said:

Do I think Facebook should have informed people of their experiment? Yes. But at least they didn't lie. They didn't make up shit and put it on people's newsfeed, your newsfeed still showed things you friends were doing, they just changed what showed up. OkCupid flat out lied. A 90% match showed up as a 10% match on a site where people are assuming their matches mean something and indicate the potential of a possible relationship. It's seriously fucking with people and it's total bullshit.

I'm not saying what OKCupid did was right necessarily, but I do have an issue with evaluating any legal "harm" or "damage" because there is no mathematical basis for whether two people are compatible or not. Why are people trusting a website to evaluate their compatibility with another person in the first place? There are so many factors that play into their algorithm...Have people told the truth? Are people with more common traits necessarily more compatible? Are people with different backgrounds less attracted to each other? How does an algorithm account for traits that are more or less desirable to any one individual?

By nature, the whole idea of an algorithm determining your compatibility with another person is an experiment. If OKCupid only showed accurate algorithm results and you never dated the man of your dreams because he was only listed as 20% compatible with you, is OKCupid liable for misrepresenting your compatibility? If you date someone the site lists as 97% compatible and the relationship fails miserably is that OKCupid's fault?

The entire point of the experiment is that people are susceptible to the power of suggestion. If you don't want to make decisions based on data a 3rd party is providing, don't rely on a 3rd party to make your decisions for you.

(and I'm betting their wall of legal hoopla covers this legally in one way or another, whether anyone scientifically considers that to be "informed consent" or not. This was not a scientific study - it's business research)

500days · July 2014

@allusive007- I was thinking the same thing while I was just reading the article, "How ironic, relationships are experiments in themselves". I need more processing time to get a solid stance on it all. I haven't ever used a dating site, so it's hard for me to understand. Do people pay monthly? Is that why they are upset too?

bethsmiles · July 2014

Oh I'm sure their legal bases are covered, still doesn't make it right. There are plenty of things that are legal, that are wrong. Honestly, I'm kind of appalled some of you don't see how this is entirely unethical. Basically to me, what you're saying is "Well you trusted a 3rd party so it's okay for them to take advantage of that trust because it's the internet."

ETA: I don't know why anyone would think businesses should be held to lower ethical standards than academics and as Blue & White pointed out some aren't such are pharmaceutical companies. So if businesses are going to start pretending they are scientists and doing experiments then they need to be held to the same ethical standards as everyone else. They don't get a free pass.

Blue & White · July 2014

It's weird to me that it seems that scientific ethics is different than real life ethics apparently. Or at least that's what I'm getting from this conversation.

I'm very confused about the whole matter, especially because so many people (not necessarily the above posters) "don't trust scientists" or "don't trust doctors". If scientists are held to a higher standard than a company and we don't trust them, why should we potentially trust a company to give us suggestions on a life partner?

I get that you usually get more than one rating to decide whether you're going to live together forever, etc., but in the rare instance that you meet a Criminal Minds candidate, you're most certainly going to blame the "compatibility rating".

[Deleted User] · July 2014

@500days - OKcupid is free. That's definitely why I chose to use it instead of something more reputable, haha.

loves2shop4shoes · July 2014

I think it's an outrage. People are on your website to make love connections, not to serve as free guinea pigs for you.

If I were on OKC, I'd promptly cancel my account.

Ollie08 · July 2014

I have a lot of the same thoughts as @allusive007. There's a great possibility that BF and I were part of this experiment. We always joke that according to OKC we were destined to fail with a ridiculously low compatibility rating. But he sent me a message, and I liked what he had to say so I responded. And we took it from there. I never joined OKC because of their "% matches", I joined it for a greater pool of prospects. And I didn't let their percentages, whether low or high, determine who I chose to respond to, or message. I read the prospect's profiles, I read their messages, and I made my decision based on how I felt about that.

I wonder if OKC had only done the study on poorly matched people by doubling their compatibility score, if there would be as much of an outrage. If people would care as much if they didn't feel like they were missing out on "the one" or whatever.

Personally, I'm more pissed about Facebook adjusting my news feed to control my mood than I am at OKC for refining their algorithms. I worry that because they conducted the study without anyone's consent and showed people more negative posts etc, that it could have sent someone further into depression, or possibly pushed them over the edge into suicide. I just feel like Facebook had a more sinister "study" than OKC.

Either way, no matter what the study was, both companies should have had to opt-in subjects.

[Deleted User] · July 2014

I never said I thought what OKCupid did was morally or ethically "right". I just said that I didn't see any reason why they should be legally liable for their actions and that I feel there is a level of personal responsibility that everyone should exercise when making decisions for themselves. It has nothing to do with the fact they are an internet-based company.

bethsmiles · July 2014

I don't think anyone ever said that they should be legally liable for it...

ETA: Actually I kind of do they they should be legally liable. I know they aren't, I'm sure their lawyers covered their bases. But I just don't get the double standard for research ethics.

[Deleted User] · July 2014

@BethSmiles - How else would you regulate this kind of thing if there are not legal means? Expecting companies to hold themselves to a high ethical standard (though admirable) is naive. In lieu of legal options, the only way I know of to "vote" on how I want a company to treat me is with my wallet.

bethsmiles · July 2014

That's why I added that I actually would prefer for it to be illegal. If we are going to have standard ethical practices for research they should apply to everyone.

Blue & White · July 2014

@bethsmiles I hear ya. Like @allusive007 said, most people can only judge businesses by how they affect their wallets. Sure, there are classes in business ethics, but does that happen in real life business practices? Maybe not. And apparently there's no backlash. The public will likely forget about this report in a week or so.

In academic research, if you falsify your data (or engage in other such practices, like oh, not getting informed consent for your research subjects) you become a pariah. You have to leave academia, likely forever. You also may lose a lot of industry job prospects as well.

Ethics has always been a tightrope, but the tightrope is wider for some industries than others. Just like the path to success is easier for some than others. It's crazy, but it's true.

bethsmiles · July 2014

Blue & White said:

@bethsmiles I hear ya. Like @allusive007 said, most people can only judge businesses by how they affect their wallets. Sure, there are classes in business ethics, but does that happen in real life business practices? Maybe not. And apparently there's no backlash. The public will likely forget about this report in a week or so.

In academic research, if you falsify your data (or engage in other such practices, like oh, not getting informed consent for your research subjects) you become a pariah. You have to leave academia, likely forever. You also may lose a lot of industry job prospects as well.

Ethics has always been a tightrope, but the tightrope is wider for some industries than others. Just like the path to success is easier for some than others. It's crazy, but it's true.

Yup that right there is what is probably making me so ragey about this whole issue.

lilacck28 · July 2014

I didn't meet FI on ok cupid. I met him on a different site. But after meeting him, he told me he was also on OKcupid and about the %match thing. I was totally intrigued. I love online quizzes and personality tests. It's a character flaw.

I joined just to see my % of compatibility with Fiance and others. I completely ignored people with low matches, and gave more of a shot to those with high. My bad. (In my defense, I looked around and saw that people who answered questions similarly to mine were the ones with high percentage matches. Questions about politics and religion and kids and sexuality. And that similarity was something I wanted. I looked at some people with really low scores at first too... and no way in hell would I want to be in the same room with those people.)

If Ok cupid changed that data, as in, changed the answers to questions, then I'd be really upset. If they just changed the number, which didn't match up with the questions, then I'd probably have realized it. (yeah, I still didn't read the actual article. I probably shouldn't be commenting.)

bookishgiraffes · July 2014

Like @lilacck28, when I was on there, I was also really reading people's answers to questions, because I liked to see how people justified/expanded their answers with their own thoughts and what exactly we had in common to make us have high percentage ratings. So I guess the reason why I'm not totally pissed about the falsified percentages (in my own personal use of OKC) is that BF's answers and mine lined up for the important things, and that's what mattered to me.

Though now that I have had more time to think about it, I do see how it's unethical and manipulative. There should at least be some warning that it is happening or an ability to opt in or out.

Okcupid experiment - how do we feel about this?

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