I got the job! BUT...

climbingsingle · August 2014

I don't know if I want to take it. I'm so torn, you guys. I don't know what to do. Help!

The base salary is a tad higher at the new job. However, there are no bonuses and I get a very large year end bonus here.

The benefits are 10x better, but I'd end up contributing more than double what I do now for medical. But I would have dental, which I don't have now. I've had to pay out of pocket for all of my dental work.

I'm senior management here. I report directly to the owner. I have an assistant, among other people that report to me. I have a lot of freedom here. If I need to leave early or take a day off, it's never a problem.

At the new job, I'd be just a purchasing agent, working in a cube farm with 6 other agents. I don't know about room for advancement. The two purchasing managers there have been there for 20 years. I'd essentially be reporting to 3 people.

My company now is very small. And I can wear jeans to work every day. The other place is business casual, which means I'd have to buy all new work clothes. But that could be fun.

Commute doesn't really matter. It's only 2 miles past where I'm working now.

The new place is a very large company. It's been years since I've worked at a company that large.

Another perk of the new place - HUGE discounts on wine.

I told them about my wedding and time off. It didn't seem like a problem at all.

The reason I started looking for a job was that I've been unhappy here. But because this is such a small company, I end up doing so many different things each day. I almost worry that I'd be bored at the new place. But I'd have much less responsibility, which can sometimes be a good thing.

I need to give them an answer by Thursday. AHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AddieCake · August 2014

Vibes that you will know what to do and that what is best for you to happen will be the choice you make!

StitelME · August 2014

First of all- Congrats on the job offer in the first place! At least you get to make the choice!

Second - Take a breath. I feel like, in today's economy etc. this is a very good problem to have.

Third - This is all about the priorities you have for your life and career. Do you like not having to report to a bunch of other people and having the work flexibility you have now or would you prefer to trade that in for a less flexib (from what you say) environment that comes with less responsibility but a bit more money and benefits?

I would think about the reasons you have been feeling unhappy at your current job and really think about whether simply moving jobs would fix them or if you are potentially trading them in for a different type of unhappiness.

I wish you good luck making your decision!

southernbelle0915 · August 2014

Do you need the extra money?

If not, I probably wouldn't take it. It doesn't even sound like a lateral move - you'd be going from senior management to cube farm. I don't think I'd ever do that unless there was some HUGE motivating factor behind it.

Have you tried to negotiate with the new company? I would and let them know you at least need to have this be a lateral move - in terms of title/management, not in terms of money - for you to consider it.

I did that at my current job when I went from a small mom and pop company to a corporate giant. They pushed back a lot, but I was pretty firm that it wouldn't make sense otherwise. I think they "got" it.

OliveOilsMom · August 2014

Anyway you can speak to your current employer? Tell them you got offered another job and see what they will offer you to stay? If you don't want to go that route, make a pros and cons list for both jobs.

Also, since you will be marrying soon, have you thought about whose benefits you will keep? If FI has spectacular benefits, that is a moot point for your current job and potential new job.

manateehugger · August 2014

southernbelle0915 said:

Do you need the extra money?

If not, I probably wouldn't take it. It doesn't even sound like a lateral move - you'd be going from senior management to cube farm. I don't think I'd ever do that unless there was some HUGE motivating factor behind it.

Have you tried to negotiate with the new company? I would and let them know you at least need to have this be a lateral move - in terms of title/management, not in terms of money - for you to consider it.

I did that at my current job when I went from a small mom and pop company to a corporate giant. They pushed back a lot, but I was pretty firm that it wouldn't make sense otherwise. I think they "got" it.

I was about to suggest this as well. You don't have to accept what they place down on the table the first go around (and often, you shouldn't). I'd talk to them about you concerns on advancement, explaining how you are currently senior management at a small company, and you've developed management skills you'd like to retain.

Also, for benefits, incentive plans, salary and what not, I'd work out your total cash compensation for both positions for a better comparison if you haven't already.

climbingsingle · August 2014

I did let them know that it would be a pay cut for me, since there's no bonus. She asked what number I'd be more comfortable with and I told her. She said she would speak to the VP.

I don't necessarily need the extra money. We're pretty comfortable now.

I'm so torn if I should speak to my current boss. He knows I've been unhappy here and told me the other day not to leave.

FI runs his own business, so I will definitely be carrying the benefits.

manateehugger · August 2014

ClimbingBrideNY said:

I did let them know that it would be a pay cut for me, since there's no bonus. She asked what number I'd be more comfortable with and I told her. She said she would speak to the VP.

I don't necessarily need the extra money. We're pretty comfortable now.

I'm so torn if I should speak to my current boss. He knows I've been unhappy here and told me the other day not to leave.

FI runs his own business, so I will definitely be carrying the benefits.

I think it then comes down to what exactly you're unhappy about and how much current boss can do (or is willing to do) to change it.

StitelME · August 2014

PDKH said:

ClimbingBrideNY said:

I did let them know that it would be a pay cut for me, since there's no bonus. She asked what number I'd be more comfortable with and I told her. She said she would speak to the VP.

I don't necessarily need the extra money. We're pretty comfortable now.

I'm so torn if I should speak to my current boss. He knows I've been unhappy here and told me the other day not to leave.

FI runs his own business, so I will definitely be carrying the benefits.

I think it then comes down to what exactly you're unhappy about and how much current boss can do (or is willing to do) to change it.

@PDKH took the words right out of my mouth.

theartistformerlyknownas · August 2014

What are your options for advancement at the current company? It sounds like it's very flat - if you report right to the owner, I don't imagine there's much room for growth.

I honestly wouldn't pay too much attention to whether the title is "senior management" at the new place. Especially in large companies - titles don't matter. Different companies play around so much with titles and structures that it's really not comparable from place to place. I'm friends with a woman here who has also worked at the same last two places as me. 2 jobs ago she was a VP - a title they only gave her to keep her from quitting; lots of people were VPs without even being managers. Then she was a senior something or other at the last place. Current job, she's analyst level. She's still doing the same level of work though, and has gotten pay raises with each move.

littlemushroom · August 2014

Think about it logically and come to a decision. Feel good about that decision, and that it is the right way to go based on all the information. Then sleep on it. How you feel about that decision in the morning when you get up will tell you if it was the right one or not.

Here is two anecdotes as to why that is what works for me:

FI had just gotten a new job at a local company in town after moving in with me when he was offered a position at a company an hour away. We talked about it, he weighed all the pros and cons, and we made a decision together. We went to sleep feeling secure and happy with the decision.

The next morning in the shower I had a sick feeling in my stomach that it was the wrong decision. FI texted me a half hour later saying he wanted to take the other job, and I immediately agreed that it was the right way to go. That change of mind felt great, he took that job, and is incredibly happy despite the hour commute. At no time did that decision feel like the wrong one.

For me, I interned at a huge, prestigious law firm in a major city during the summer between my second and third year of law school. They offered me a job with a 6 figure salary, and all logical things to consider pointed to it being a great opportunity and one I shouldn't turn down. Right after I accepted the offer, I felt like it was the wrong way to go for me. But since there was no logical reason to turn it down, I just went with it. I HATED that job with a passion, was completely miserable the entire time I was there and left within in a year. I should have listed to my gut, and really regret accepting that job.

Bottom Line: If something doesn't feel right, it isn't. If this new job doesn't feel right, then wait for the next opportunity. I am not sure how going from senior management to one of the underlings is a good career move, especially if you want to move back into management in the future (which I assume since you noted the apparent lack of advancement opportunities).

climbingsingle · August 2014

I do want to stay in management. I enjoy it. Years ago, I worked for a large company. I was there for 8 years. I was unhappy and found a new job. And about 2 months after I started the new job, I was completely miserable. I hated it. I was constantly micromanaged and my boss ended up being a huge jerk. I guess that's why this has me so hesitant.

wandajune6 · August 2014

The PPs have made lots of great points. I'd ask just one more question: do you know what type of work you want to be doing further down the line?

If this new job gets you closer to what you want to be doing eventually, think about it as a stepping stone rather than a destination. If it gives you the right connections, skills, or even just the right name on your resume, there's value that's worthy of consideration.

If you don't have a plan beyond your next move (which is totally ok!), then base it off of lifestyle and money.

Maggie0829 · August 2014

lolo883 said:

What are your options for advancement at the current company? It sounds like it's very flat - if you report right to the owner, I don't imagine there's much room for growth.

I honestly wouldn't pay too much attention to whether the title is "senior management" at the new place. Especially in large companies - titles don't matter. Different companies play around so much with titles and structures that it's really not comparable from place to place. I'm friends with a woman here who has also worked at the same last two places as me. 2 jobs ago she was a VP - a title they only gave her to keep her from quitting; lots of people were VPs without even being managers. Then she was a senior something or other at the last place. Current job, she's analyst level. She's still doing the same level of work though, and has gotten pay raises with each move.

This. At my company we can pretty much make up our own titles because no one really cares what your title is because many times it doesn't really explain what you actually do.

manateehugger · August 2014

Maggie0829 said:

lolo883 said:

What are your options for advancement at the current company? It sounds like it's very flat - if you report right to the owner, I don't imagine there's much room for growth.

I honestly wouldn't pay too much attention to whether the title is "senior management" at the new place. Especially in large companies - titles don't matter. Different companies play around so much with titles and structures that it's really not comparable from place to place. I'm friends with a woman here who has also worked at the same last two places as me. 2 jobs ago she was a VP - a title they only gave her to keep her from quitting; lots of people were VPs without even being managers. Then she was a senior something or other at the last place. Current job, she's analyst level. She's still doing the same level of work though, and has gotten pay raises with each move.

This. At my company we can pretty much make up our own titles because no one really cares what your title is because many times it doesn't really explain what you actually do.

This makes the compensation analyst in me want to pitch your companies a deal for new classification and pay structures.

But I would be cautious - HR sucks in a lot of (most? all?) companies, but some people do have their shit together. When they have their shit together, titles can matter and correlate with pay.

Ask to see a job description and read what the job is really doing and reporting relationships and compare it to titles in the job market.

Maggie0829 · August 2014

PDKH said:

Maggie0829 said:

lolo883 said:

What are your options for advancement at the current company? It sounds like it's very flat - if you report right to the owner, I don't imagine there's much room for growth.

I honestly wouldn't pay too much attention to whether the title is "senior management" at the new place. Especially in large companies - titles don't matter. Different companies play around so much with titles and structures that it's really not comparable from place to place. I'm friends with a woman here who has also worked at the same last two places as me. 2 jobs ago she was a VP - a title they only gave her to keep her from quitting; lots of people were VPs without even being managers. Then she was a senior something or other at the last place. Current job, she's analyst level. She's still doing the same level of work though, and has gotten pay raises with each move.

This. At my company we can pretty much make up our own titles because no one really cares what your title is because many times it doesn't really explain what you actually do.

This makes the compensation analyst in me want to pitch your companies a deal for new classification and pay structures.

But I would be cautious - HR sucks in a lot of (most? all?) companies, but some people do have their shit together. When they have their shit together, titles can matter and correlate with pay.
Ask to see a job description and read what the job is really doing and reporting relationships and compare it to titles in the job market.

Yeah, our pay structure is more determined on length of time with the company then what your title is. Now if I made a huge leap to actually being a manager of a group of people, then yeah I would probably get a (very small) raise. But unless you make a huge leap in regards to what work you will be doing the titles in our company are worthless.

Cookie Pusher · August 2014

My company is so small that titles don't really matter for the most part. I could ask for whatever title I wanted and it wouldn't matter - I'm the only person in my department!

mysticl · August 2014

PDKH said:

Maggie0829 said:

lolo883 said:

What are your options for advancement at the current company? It sounds like it's very flat - if you report right to the owner, I don't imagine there's much room for growth.

I honestly wouldn't pay too much attention to whether the title is "senior management" at the new place. Especially in large companies - titles don't matter. Different companies play around so much with titles and structures that it's really not comparable from place to place. I'm friends with a woman here who has also worked at the same last two places as me. 2 jobs ago she was a VP - a title they only gave her to keep her from quitting; lots of people were VPs without even being managers. Then she was a senior something or other at the last place. Current job, she's analyst level. She's still doing the same level of work though, and has gotten pay raises with each move.

This. At my company we can pretty much make up our own titles because no one really cares what your title is because many times it doesn't really explain what you actually do.

This makes the compensation analyst in me want to pitch your companies a deal for new classification and pay structures.

But I would be cautious - HR sucks in a lot of (most? all?) companies, but some people do have their shit together. When they have their shit together, titles can matter and correlate with pay.
Ask to see a job description and read what the job is really doing and reporting relationships and compare it to titles in the job market.

I used to work at a place that had supervisors and managers. Those tittles were significant because they indicated where the person landed in the hierarchy. There were different types of supervisors and managers and those other words indicated which department they belonged to.

climbingsingle · August 2014

The job titles definitely mean something at my current job and the possible new job. I'm the director of purchasing now, with a dual title of customer service manager. If I took the new job, I'd be a purchasing agent.

Maggie0829 · August 2014

ClimbingBrideNY said:

The job titles definitely mean something at my current job and the possible new job. I'm the director of purchasing now, with a dual title of customer service manager. If I took the new job, I'd be a purchasing agent.

So then it would be a step down.

Why are you unhappy with your current job?

manateehugger · August 2014

Maggie0829 said:

ClimbingBrideNY said:

The job titles definitely mean something at my current job and the possible new job. I'm the director of purchasing now, with a dual title of customer service manager. If I took the new job, I'd be a purchasing agent.

So then it would be a step down.

Why are you unhappy with your current job?

Yeah, if it's not pay or management opportunity or flexibility, what is it?

NYCMercedes · August 2014

It sounds to me that this job isn't really a step up, between the pay, the title, the cube farm, and all the other variables you mention. All together, it sounds like a lateral transfer (at best) into the unknown. I would keep looking for a job you really want, as opposed to a position that simply gets you out of your current predicament. Congrats on receiving the offer. That shows you have some valuable and marketable skills. Keep looking.

climbingsingle · August 2014

Maggie0829 said:

ClimbingBrideNY said:

The job titles definitely mean something at my current job and the possible new job. I'm the director of purchasing now, with a dual title of customer service manager. If I took the new job, I'd be a purchasing agent.

So then it would be a step down.

Why are you unhappy with your current job?

Stupid boxes!!!
The owners are sometimes extremely hard to work for. One tends to micromanage every single person here, including the VP of sales.
The other owner has a temper. It's not abusive, but there are times when there is yelling and cursing.
Things have been extremely disorganized in the factory, which directly affects my job in many ways. However, that does seem to be improving a little.
They treat the men here better than the women.

And I know I could very easily run into these problems at a new place, which again, makes me hesitant to leave. The devil you know and all that. I will say though that there are good things here. Any time I've asked for a raise or more vacation time, I've gotten it. They do seem to value me and my work. When my ex trashed all of my stuff in my old apartment, they all rallied around me and offered whatever help and support I needed.

climbingsingle · August 2014

NYCMercedes said:

It sounds to me that this job isn't really a step up, between the pay, the title, the cube farm, and all the other variables you mention. All together, it sounds like a lateral transfer (at best) into the unknown. I would keep looking for a job you really want, as opposed to a position that simply gets you out of your current predicament. Congrats on receiving the offer. That shows you have some valuable and marketable skills. Keep looking.

And this is a good point too.

theartistformerlyknownas · August 2014

Maggie0829 said:

lolo883 said:

What are your options for advancement at the current company? It sounds like it's very flat - if you report right to the owner, I don't imagine there's much room for growth.

I honestly wouldn't pay too much attention to whether the title is "senior management" at the new place. Especially in large companies - titles don't matter. Different companies play around so much with titles and structures that it's really not comparable from place to place. I'm friends with a woman here who has also worked at the same last two places as me. 2 jobs ago she was a VP - a title they only gave her to keep her from quitting; lots of people were VPs without even being managers. Then she was a senior something or other at the last place. Current job, she's analyst level. She's still doing the same level of work though, and has gotten pay raises with each move.

This. At my company we can pretty much make up our own titles because no one really cares what your title is because many times it doesn't really explain what you actually do.

For a while they did allow everyone to make up their own titles for their business cards. That's how we ended up with someone calling himself "Data Commander."

Otherwise, there are managers of people and managers of things, so being a "manager" doesn't mean you're in charge of anyone. I was supervising an entire team, including Senior Analysts, while I had an Analyst title. They eventually changed it to "Senior Analyst, Manager." Um, that means nothing outside of this office, thanks.

Cookie Pusher · August 2014

I have an associate title, but I manage the whole office. In a previous job, I held a manager title and had zero authority.

cupcait927 · August 2014

@climbingbrideny how are you feeling about the offer now that you've had a chance to sleep on it?

climbingsingle · August 2014

I'm 85% sure that I'm going to decline the offer.

cupcait927 · August 2014

I think that would be a wise decision. From everything that you've posted here, it sounds like it would almost be a step down from where you are now and you could still encounter the same work place issues that you have now. Keep us update though!

climbingsingle · August 2014

cupcait927 said:

I think that would be a wise decision. From everything that you've posted here, it sounds like it would almost be a step down from where you are now and you could still encounter the same work place issues that you have now. Keep us update though!

It definitely feels like a step back. I've worked really hard to get where I am. I will definitely keep you updated! The search continues!

climbingsingle · August 2014

Update: I contacted the company to let them know I was declining the offer. And honestly, I feel good about it! I'm going to keep looking for something that's a better fit for my skill set.

Thank you everyone for the advice!!! I really appreciate it.

I got the job! BUT...

Re: I got the job! BUT...

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