Would you be annoyed?

kaos16 · August 2014

DH and I are part owners in a bar nearby. Although we serve food from an attached restaurant that is all ages, the actual bar is strictly 21 and over. We have a bouncer on Friday and Saturday nights to enforce this. My sister is aware of this policy, as I have mentioned it multiple times to her, and we have a cousin who is still a few months shy of her 21st birthday who desperately wants to see the place but can't yet (it's new, only open about a month).

So on Saturday I saw a facebook post on my sister's page. It was of her and a group of work friends at my bar the past weekend. It was a memorial because one of the girls had passed away. That girl was only 20. After giving my condolences to my sister over the loss of her friend/coworker, I asked how the girl got into the bar at 20 years old. She stated that it was probably a fake ID, but that it didn't matter because the girl passed away anyway. She was annoyed with me, which I get. . . . my timing wasn't great.

From a business perspective, however, I need to know these things to try to avoid serving to underages patrons in the future, god forbid something happens. I'm annoyed with my sister for bringing underage people into my bar. I feel like that's a big slap in the face. Would you be annoyed? With that being said, what can I even do about it?

theartistformerlyknownas · August 2014

I would be beyond annoyed at my sister causing me to commit a crime.

I'd also fire the bouncer who was on duty the night a minor got in, and retrain the rest of them/give them better procedures to ensure identity (black light to check licenses, brighter light to see faces, asking questions like address to people who they're unsure about).

beethery · August 2014

I'd be telling the bouncers to keep an eye out for my sister and whoever she decides to bring if I were you.

bethsmiles · August 2014

Absolutely you should be annoyed and you need to address it. You need to explain to her what the consequences are for you and your business if you are found to be serving minors.

Maggie0829 · August 2014

beethery said:

I'd be telling the bouncers to keep an eye out for my sister and whoever she decides to bring if I were you.

This.

missdelilah · August 2014

I would be super annoyed, but unfortunately this isn't the time for you to be having this discussion with your sister. Do your bouncers have an electronic ID reader? My FI worked as a bouncer for a few years, and the bars he worked in had those, although he could often spot a fake really easily. You should fire the bouncer who was on duty that night, and hire one who's more experienced. I'm sorry your sister put you in such a situation. It was a completely dick move on her part.

banana468 · August 2014

She's probably emotionally raw but I would work really hard at carding everyone. And the next time your sister comes in, I'd ask the bouncer to really double check hers.

Do the bouncers know how to spot a fake? Will they quiz those who look really young? My favorite story from BIL when he was bartending in OH was when he spotted a fake CT ID. He lived in CT for his entire life until he went to college so when Bayshore, CT was listed as the town, he had a great time showing the kid the door.

kaos16 · August 2014

missdelilah said:

I would be super annoyed, but unfortunately this isn't the time for you to be having this discussion with your sister. Do your bouncers have an electronic ID reader? My FI worked as a bouncer for a few years, and the bars he worked in had those, although he could often spot a fake really easily. You should fire the bouncer who was on duty that night, and hire one who's more experienced. I'm sorry your sister put you in such a situation. It was a completely dick move on her part.

SIB:
We are looking into getting one. We have to convince the other 2 partners that it is a wise investment.

wandajune6 · August 2014

I'd be annoyed. I'd imagine that she doesn't realize the extent of the consequences of you being caught with underage drinks. I'd hope that she would care more if she understood, though it' shard to say for sure.

I'd definitely tell the bouncer to give extra scrutiny to anyone that your sister brings with her. If he/she catches a fake, I'd instruct them to make it an even bigger deal than they usually do (not necessarily with cops, but scare them badly).

It sounds like you also need better training for your bouncers.

climbingsingle · August 2014

lolo883 said:

I would be beyond annoyed at my sister causing me to commit a crime.

I'd also fire the bouncer who was on duty the night a minor got in, and retrain the rest of them/give them better procedures to ensure identity (black light to check licenses, brighter light to see faces/asking questions like address to people who they're unsure about).

Ditto this.

kaos16 · August 2014

I mean, I know that some fake ids are really good, and that everyone can make a mistake, bouncers included. I desperately want to hope that my sister didn't realize how old the girl was, but I find that very hard to believe. Also, my sister knows that I am an attorney (obviously) and how "by the book" we are trying to make the bar. Ugghh!

theartistformerlyknownas · August 2014

banana468 said:

She's probably emotionally raw but I would work really hard at carding everyone. And the next time your sister comes in, I'd ask the bouncer to really double check hers.

Do the bouncers know how to spot a fake? Will they quiz those who look really young? My favorite story from BIL when he was bartending in OH was when he spotted a fake CT ID. He lived in CT for his entire life until he went to college so when Bayshore, CT was listed as the town, he had a great time showing the kid the door.

I got quizzed by a bartender in college once... it was the bar I'd been going to 2-3 times a week for probably 6 months. She asked me to recite my birth date and address, still didn't believe it was my ID (knew it was real, just thought it was "borrowed"), and asked for more proof. I pulled out my college ID, library card, about 6 credit cards, check book and a piece of mail I had in my purse, all with the same name on them, and slapped them all down on the bar with a deadpan look on my face. She got the idea. I got my long island.

afox007 · August 2014

I think my biggest concern is actually the picture. Is your bar easily recognizable in it? Not only is it proof that you have had underage customers, anyone under 21 who sees it might think its a great place to go since clearly they can get in.

PineapplePopsicles · August 2014

wandajune6 said:

I'd be annoyed. I'd imagine that she doesn't realize the extent of the consequences of you being caught with underage drinks. I'd hope that she would care more if she understood, though it' shard to say for sure.

I'd definitely tell the bouncer to give extra scrutiny to anyone that your sister brings with her. If he/she catches a fake, I'd instruct them to make it an even bigger deal than they usually do (not necessarily with cops, but scare them badly).

It sounds like you also need better training for your bouncers.

Yes, if the word got out that you can't get a fake ID past the bouncers at such & such bar, you may have less problems. There is a bar here in town that is known for NEVER checking ID's, so i would think the opposite word of mouth would work, too.

afox007 · August 2014

lolo883 said:

banana468 said:

She's probably emotionally raw but I would work really hard at carding everyone. And the next time your sister comes in, I'd ask the bouncer to really double check hers.

Do the bouncers know how to spot a fake? Will they quiz those who look really young? My favorite story from BIL when he was bartending in OH was when he spotted a fake CT ID. He lived in CT for his entire life until he went to college so when Bayshore, CT was listed as the town, he had a great time showing the kid the door.

I got quizzed by a bartender in college once... it was the bar I'd been going to 2-3 times a week for probably 6 months. She asked me to recite my birth date and address, still didn't believe it was my ID (knew it was real, just thought it was "borrowed"), and asked for more proof. I pulled out my college ID, library card, about 6 credit cards, check book and a piece of mail I had in my purse, all with the same name on them, and slapped them all down on the bar with a deadpan look on my face. She got the idea. I got my long island.

I had a similar issue right after I turned 21 since I was only 17 in my ID photo. I had gained weight and bleached my hair so they were convinced I had taken my sisters ID. After knowing my address, spelling of my complicated middle and last name, bday, and license number the bartender asked me to sign my name since "signatures don't change". Mine had changed dramatically it went from perfectly written cursive to my first initial followed by a scribble. I did not get my drink

theartistformerlyknownas · August 2014

afox007 said:

banana468 said:

She's probably emotionally raw but I would work really hard at carding everyone. And the next time your sister comes in, I'd ask the bouncer to really double check hers.

Do the bouncers know how to spot a fake? Will they quiz those who look really young? My favorite story from BIL when he was bartending in OH was when he spotted a fake CT ID. He lived in CT for his entire life until he went to college so when Bayshore, CT was listed as the town, he had a great time showing the kid the door.

I got quizzed by a bartender in college once... it was the bar I'd been going to 2-3 times a week for probably 6 months. She asked me to recite my birth date and address, still didn't believe it was my ID (knew it was real, just thought it was "borrowed"), and asked for more proof. I pulled out my college ID, library card, about 6 credit cards, check book and a piece of mail I had in my purse, all with the same name on them, and slapped them all down on the bar with a deadpan look on my face. She got the idea. I got my long island.
I had a similar issue right after I turned 21 since I was only 17 in my ID photo. I had gained weight and bleached my hair so they were convinced I had taken my sisters ID. After knowing my address, spelling of my complicated middle and last name, bday, and license number the bartender asked me to sign my name since "signatures don't change". Mine had changed dramatically it went from perfectly written cursive to my first initial followed by a scribble. I did not get my drink

Well that's ridiculous.

VulgarGirl · August 2014

afox007 said:

I think my biggest concern is actually the picture. Is your bar easily recognizable in it? Not only is it proof that you have had underage customers, anyone under 21 who sees it might think its a great place to go since clearly they can get in.

Honestly...when I was under 21 we all knew which bars had the most laxed ID policies and which ones had bouncers who could never spot a fake. So yeah ^this is what I'd be worried about as well. Once word gets around (and it will) that it's easy for underage kids to get into, they will. Or at least they will try.

southernbelle0915 · August 2014

Your sister sounds young and immature. I would ask her if she knew the girl was 20 at the time and talk to her about how much trouble you could get in if you're caught admitting/serving underage. It's no small potatoes and could ruin your business. Does she understand that?

Of course it's not entirely her fault if the girl acted like or lied and said she was 21 and had an ID good enough to fool your bouncer. There are awesome fake IDs out there, so as long as you have reasonable safeguards in place, I think you could easily defend this if you need to.

lyndausvi · August 2014

Would I be annoyed? Yes.

I would put my energy back into the staff though. Assuming they know your sister it's possible they look the other way to be nice. Some owners make their bouncers do that. Hello, how often have our the Jenner girls or other underage celebs in bars?

Just remind staff about carding and that your sister's friends are NOT to be given special treatment. If they are underage they do NOT get it. Period.

lyndausvi · August 2014

southernbelle0915 said:

Your sister sounds young and immature. I would ask her if she knew the girl was 20 at the time and talk to her about how much trouble you could get in if you're caught admitting/serving underage. It's no small potatoes and could ruin your business. Does she understand that?

Of course it's not entirely her fault if the girl acted like or lied and said she was 21 and had an ID good enough to fool your bouncer. There are awesome fake IDs out there, so as long as you have reasonable safeguards in place, I think you could easily defend this if you need to.

sounds like a normal 21 year old who has friends who haven't quite made the cut yet. That time sucks. Half or more of you can go out together, the others can't. Been there, done that.

Not an excuse to put your sister's business in jeopardy. but I find their actions to be normal when some of you are barely of age and some are just short.

kaos16 · August 2014

lyndausvi said:

southernbelle0915 said:

Your sister sounds young and immature. I would ask her if she knew the girl was 20 at the time and talk to her about how much trouble you could get in if you're caught admitting/serving underage. It's no small potatoes and could ruin your business. Does she understand that?

Of course it's not entirely her fault if the girl acted like or lied and said she was 21 and had an ID good enough to fool your bouncer. There are awesome fake IDs out there, so as long as you have reasonable safeguards in place, I think you could easily defend this if you need to.

sounds like a normal 21 year old who has friends who haven't quite made the cut yet. That time sucks. Half or more of you can go out together, the others can't. Been there, done that.

Not an excuse to put your sister's business in jeopardy. but I find their actions to be normal when some of you are barely of age and some are just short.

Oh no, my friend. . . .my sister is a grown-ass 34 year old adult. . . . she happens to work in the restaurant industry so when she goes out with friends after work, it's all ages of employees it seems. servers/bussers/cooks, etc.

lyndausvi · August 2014

kaos16 said:

lyndausvi said:

southernbelle0915 said:

Your sister sounds young and immature. I would ask her if she knew the girl was 20 at the time and talk to her about how much trouble you could get in if you're caught admitting/serving underage. It's no small potatoes and could ruin your business. Does she understand that?

Of course it's not entirely her fault if the girl acted like or lied and said she was 21 and had an ID good enough to fool your bouncer. There are awesome fake IDs out there, so as long as you have reasonable safeguards in place, I think you could easily defend this if you need to.

sounds like a normal 21 year old who has friends who haven't quite made the cut yet. That time sucks. Half or more of you can go out together, the others can't. Been there, done that.

Not an excuse to put your sister's business in jeopardy. but I find their actions to be normal when some of you are barely of age and some are just short.

Oh no, my friend. . . .my sister is a grown-ass 34 year old adult. . . . she happens to work in the restaurant industry so when she goes out with friends after work, it's all ages of employees it seems. servers/bussers/cooks, etc.

ah. So she is using her connections. Yeah, this needs to be addressed with the staff. Staff take care of others in the "biz". I've seen it before. Your staff needs to know that under no circumstances does sister get special treatment by getting underage people in the place. No warning, if you see one of her underage friends in there they are fired.

brideofginger · August 2014

beethery said:

I'd be telling the bouncers to keep an eye out for my sister and whoever she decides to bring if I were you.

I agree with this. I waited tables for several years in college, and while the opportunity to party with underaged drinkers (in private homes 99.9% of the time) would often present itself, a group of us would usually just go to an actual bar to avoid any concerns regarding age. I love my friends and family, but I don't lose-my-livelihood-or-maybe-even-my-freedom love them. I would even be willing to go so far as to potentially tell the bouncers not to admit my sibling at all anymore if I thought this was going to be a continual concern with her friends.

southernbelle0915 · August 2014

lyndausvi said:

southernbelle0915 said:

Your sister sounds young and immature. I would ask her if she knew the girl was 20 at the time and talk to her about how much trouble you could get in if you're caught admitting/serving underage. It's no small potatoes and could ruin your business. Does she understand that?

Of course it's not entirely her fault if the girl acted like or lied and said she was 21 and had an ID good enough to fool your bouncer. There are awesome fake IDs out there, so as long as you have reasonable safeguards in place, I think you could easily defend this if you need to.

sounds like a normal 21 year old who has friends who haven't quite made the cut yet. That time sucks. Half or more of you can go out together, the others can't. Been there, done that.

Not an excuse to put your sister's business in jeopardy. but I find their actions to be normal when some of you are barely of age and some are just short.

We've all been there. I had older friends and a fake ID, so I definitely get it.

But I think there's a difference between not caring if some random bar is out of compliance with the law and not caring if your sister's bar is out of compliance with the law. That's where I think the immature and poor judgement piece comes in.

The fact that she's 34 is just...yea, I'd be annoyed to say the least.

afox007 · August 2014

Another concern that I just thought of is how/when did her friend pass away? I'm hoping that it wasn't the result of drunk driving after having left your bar.

kaos16 · August 2014

afox007 said:

Another concern that I just thought of is how/when did her friend pass away? I'm hoping that it wasn't the result of drunk driving after having left your bar.

Oh my gosh, no! Thank goodness! She was tragically hit by a car crossing the street at 12:30 in the afternoon a week later.

Would you be annoyed?

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