Priest's thoughts on BC

GJones27 · January 2011

So, this past week, my FI and I had our second premarital counselling session with our Orthodox Christian priest. I know my faith tradition is different from many of you on this board, but I thought you find his thoughts interesting. We had a discussion about birth control, and for me it answered some of the questions we were discussing a number of months ago on the big birth control thread.

Unlike Catholics, Orthodox Christians are allowed to practice birth control. I asked our priest what kinds were approved by the church, and he said as long as it doesn't prevent implementation of the embryo on the uterus lining, it's fine. I asked him if the Pill would qualify as an abortifacient, and he said no. He gave his blessing for us to use the Pill, and he said our reasons for waiting (i.e. wanting to finish grad school) are totally legitimate reasons for waiting to have children.

Anyways, just thought I would share. Of course, this shouldn't replace any discussions you might have with your own religious clergy, but I thought it would be informative for those of you wondering.

kellya01 · January 2011

Wow, thanks for sharing! We don't "ban" BC at my church as far as I know (southern baptist convention). That line about "as long as it doesn't prevent implementation of the embryo on the uterus lining" is interesting. I guess they have to be specific when it comes to these types of drugs. We aren't into our pre-marital counseling sessions yet, but I will definitely be talking with my pastor about it. My FI and I discussed it a couple of weeks ago too. It's an interesting question - take it or not - and I haven't resolved it yet.

GJones27 · January 2011

Yes, it is an interesting question. I should also add my priest said that things like IUDs are expressly forbidden, as that's a clear case of a drug/medical procedure intended to prevent implementation. We didn't talk about all the different types of methods and whether or not they're forbidden, but since the Pill is what I had been considering, I only asked him about that method.

I definitely recommend talking when you get the chance. I was lucky, as my priest was the one who brought up the question to begin with. I was too embarrassed to ask!

revived86 · January 2011

I'm glad you posted this, GJones. I consider myself basically a nondenominational/evangelical Christian, and usually the ins and outs of BC are not something that are really considered in those kinds of communities, unfortunately (or at least that's what I have experienced.) I'm glad to see that your priest brought it up to you guys, that's encouraging to hear.

Personally, I agree with your priest's view about only using hormonal BC that expressly intends to just prohibit fertilization rather than only stopping a fertilized egg from implementing into the uterus (i learned recently that the "official" terms for these two things are "contraception" vs "contra-implantation")

However, I do still draw a line between using IUD's or other "contra-implantation" devices and actually getting an abortion. For myself, I just don't feel comfortable using anything that could possibly allow an egg to fertilize, because ultimately I do believe that is a baby, but as a general rule, i think that as long as what you are doing is a *preventative* measure rather than a *reaction* to a pregnancy that you don't want, it shouldnt be considered the same as abortion.

And for any brides who are trying to decide what to use, I've been on NuvaRing for almost a year now and i LOVE it. Easiest thing ever and really doesnt have too many side effects as far as i've seen (altho i have gained weight since my wedding but i think that's just because of getting married, lol.)

Ready2BMrsWade · January 2011

It's interesting, I am also a member of a SBC church and have never really thought to talk to my preacher about BC. FI and I have but not with the preacher. I firmly believe that abortions are wrong but I also think God wants me to be smart about when I have a family and right now there is now way emotionally or financially I am able to have a child so I think BC is a necessary thing.And personally, I know of several examples of people who got pregnant while on BC so then, it was very apparently the will of God for them to have that child. To each there own though!

fpaemp2011 · January 2011

We have not spoken with our pastors (one of them being FI's dad...so...no...or my Conservative Southern Baptist pastors) but we did discuss this and research together. We decided that neither of us are comfortable with any form of hormonal bc or IUD, so we're going with FAM (charting & barriers). I just ordered Taking Charge of Your Fertility (TCOYF if you see it on another thread) and plan on getting a basal thermometer soon. I want to start charting asap so we're comfortable with the method before June. I do agree with being responsible in family planning, but neither of us are comfortable with HBC or any IUD currently available.

golden1215 · January 2011

Just a note about IUDs, there are hormonal kinds- Mirena- and non-hormonal kinds- ParaGard. I have the copper/non-hormonal kind that can be left in for up to 12 years and it simply kills the sperm that get far enough into your cervix. Sort of like spermicide on a condom. Paragard is the longest lasting, non-hormonal, reversible contraception available.

LeahVB2011 · January 2011

My mom used HBC so I'm guessing my dad (who is a SBC pastor and also my personal pastor) is okay with it. Personally, I will only use it until we decide we want to start trying (or I get pregnant). From then on, it's up to God on when we will have kids. I have considered FAM but I need to look into it more.

Calypso1977 · January 2011

Unlike Catholics, Orthodox Christians are allowed to practice birth control.

just a small point. catholics are against ARTIFICIAL birth control. NFP is a method of birth control and it is allowed (and extremely effective).

I asked our priest what kinds were approved by the church, and he said as long as it doesn't prevent implementation of the embryo on the uterus lining, it's fine.

im curious abotu this statement. the Pill actually DOES prevent implantation because the Pill purposely thins your uterine lining so that hte embryo cannot implant.

i would check on the teachings of your church before making any decisions. while the priest may have told you the pill is ok, the church might be against it. priests can and do make errors or give misinformation.

regardless of whether one believes in the pill or not, i think it should be taken with extreme caution. i fear my 10+ years of pill use caused irreparable damage to my system, based on what ive observed in my cycles for the past 2 years of being on a natural method.

sister2groom · January 2011

I really liked Mark Driscoll's answer on this (BTW, he doesn't really espouse one particular method, just describes them and leaves you to follow your conscience).

http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/religionsaves/birth-control

Oh, and I think Calypso's right about the pill sometimes preventing implantation.

GJones27 · January 2011

To the previous two posters, we had a discussion on that point (i.e. the Pill being an abortifacient) on this board a number of months ago. Did you by any chance read the thread? If so, I don't want to be redundant, but if not, you might find that thread useful. One girl posted a link to the pro-life OBGYN doctors of America, who argue that the Pill doesn't really prevent implementation of the embryo on the lining of the uterus. Apparently, the idea that the Pill prevents implementation is based off an old misunderstanding, and if your body does release an egg, then the chemicals released by your body are so powerful, you lining is essentially made normal under those circumstances. I guess it's why women get pregant on the Pill often enough. Again, I don't mean to challenge your religious or moral beliefs, and I'm strongly against abortion. But I just wanted to share what my priest shared. He's well educated and oversees a major Orthodox church in a big city, but at least that was his opinion.

GJones27 · January 2011

P.S. I forgot to address your point on Catholics and birth control. I do know Catholics accept natural birth control, but when I hear and use the word "birth control," I automatically think of artificial birth control. Didn't mean to misrepresent Catholicism (I went to Catholic schools for eight years).

fpaemp2011 · January 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_priests-thoughts-bc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:8d044cfd-029f-4ddb-b6f2-49f5c782e3b7Post:cc4da4c1-856d-4855-8bed-cacbb853f748">Re: Priest's thoughts on BC</a>:
[QUOTE]I have considered FAM but I need to look into it more.
Posted by LeahVB2011[/QUOTE]

Leah (and anyone else interested), another knottie recommended the Christian Family Planning Network to me about 2 months ago.
Link: <a href="http://christianfamilyplanning.net/" rel='nofollow'>http://christianfamilyplanning.net/</a>

They are supportive of NFP or FAM. I'm part of the TTA (trying to avoid/abstain) group right now, and they have been incredibly supportive of just trying to figure it all out. I was a little surprised at how many sigs I recognized from here (TK in general...not just this board) but all the girls have been great.

kellya01 · January 2011

FPAEMP- thanks for posting the website about NFP. I read a bit about it on the Catholic Weddings board because I had heard it was a catholic thing. I have never taken HBC and wasn't really excited about starting it, but I was strongly considering starting it soon so that I am "regulated" and used to using it by the time the wedding comes around. My only difficulty now is I don't have health insurance. Hey, wait... maybe with the potential job opportunity, which should come with health insurance, I could actually afford HBC. Well, the jury's out on this one. I'll still talk with my pastor about what the church says on the matter, and my FI and I will come to a joint decision on it, because NFP as I understand it also requires the husband to be part of it (although I could be wrong).

fpaemp2011 · January 2011

kelly- NFP and FAM both require the husband to be in the loop so you both know when you're fertile. NFP is used by many Catholics, and requires either abstinence or openness to pregnancy during fertile times. FAM allows for use of barriers (condoms, diaphragms, spermicide, etc) during your fertile time. We were just thinking of using barriers and had not considered FAM or NFP until I read about it on here. I think it will be great to actually know what's going on with my body, and know when precautions should be taken before we plan on having a baby.

I am also a member of a conservative SBC church, and have never heard HBC being "preached against," so I don't know what your pastor will say. We did not talk to our pastors about this issue. It was discussed in several classes at our university, which prompted us to research it ourselves. All we did was read the websites of the HBC and IUD brands themselves.

kellya01 · January 2011

Oh! Okay, well that's all really good info. So we have some homework to do! My FI has been looking for things he can do... maybe this is something he can help research too. I was never really excited about having to take a pill every day, and IUD's give me the willies! So far I've enjoyed not having to remember any daily pills, but then again I also forget to take my daily vitamins, so I don't see that going very well.

I think a lot of women at my church take HBC but no one really talks about it. I know that my pastor has one session of our pre-marital counseling that is all about sex, children, conceiving, etc and he warned us ahead of time that it was important and he felt that we should cover it because we may not know the right questions to ask.

Thanks for the info!!! :-)

leannalyn · January 2011

This is a bit of a loaded topic for my first post on this board, but it's right up my ally, so I wanted to let you ladies know about another resource. I'm in medical school and planning on going into OB/GYN. My mentor since high school is an amazing, Christian OB/GYN. If you go to cmda.org (CMDA= Christian Medical & Dental Association), you can do a doctor search for Christian doctors in your area. There is an option to search for a specific specialty, such as OB/GYN.

If you can find a Christian doctor in your area, I think this is a really wise idea. A lot of times, unless you educate yourself and ask really specific questions, doctors don't offer up information about how different forms of contraception work, mostly because they assume most patients don't care. Being proactive about finding out this information, and having an OB/GYN that shares your views on abortion can help you to make a good decision. If you cannot find a Christian doctor to visit, be sure to educate yourself on the types of birth control that are out there, and how they work. This way you will be able to ask your doctor the right questions, and your doctor will be happy to answer them.

I saw that someone made a comment about all IUDs being "contra-implantation". This actually isn't true. There are only 2 IUDs approved by the FDA and on the market today. Paraguard is the copper IUD--it works by releasing copper into the uterus, which kills the sperm and prevents fertilization. This is a great option if you are concerned with putting hormones into your body. Mirena is the hormonal (progesterone) IUD, and the company actually hasn't done studies to prove how it works. Most doctors agree that it likely works by preventing implantation of a fertilized embryo, which most Christian doctors agree is the equivalent of performing an abortion. As far as oral contraception goes, the vast majority work by preventing ovulation, thereby preventing fertilization from occurring.

As far as family planning goes, this is unfortunately the most unreliable form of birth control. It is very effective for couples who chart very carefully and when the woman has a very regular cycle. Unfortunately, this is not true for many women, and it can be nearly impossible to predict when ovulation will occur. Though I wouldn't ever discourage this method if it is important to the couple, I would stress that they be aware of the fact that they are more likely to get pregnant than with other forms of contraception, especially if they choose not to use condoms. Surprise pregnancies do happen, so make sure you have a plan for how you will handle this (financially, emotionally, support system, etc) if it were to happen.

It's exciting for me to see people out there who are incorporating their faith into their medical decisions, that is definitely not the norm with my patients! Congratulations to everyone on their upcoming marriages

Calypso1977 · January 2011

As far as family planning goes, this is unfortunately the most unreliable form of birth control. It is very effective for couples who chart very carefully and when the woman has a very regular cycle.

i completey disagree. BC is only as effective as the person using it wants it to be, meaning, if you dont chart properly, it wont work. if you dont remember ot take your pill, it wont work. if you dont remember to put a condom on, or dont put it on properly, it wont work.

now the "rhythm method" IS completley ineffective as it assumes everyone has a 28 day cycle. therefore, if you are irregular, then yes, it wont work. but FAM is NOT the rhythm method. the two shoudl not be confused. in fact, FAM is often taught to couples trying to get pregnant since it is very simple to pinpoint exactly when youll ovulate.

i urge you to do some additional research on FAM before spreading the myth that it is ineffective.

GJones27 · January 2011

Calypso, can you provide the board with any evidence that that method is effective? Personal experience? How would you know it's the actual method rather than existing infertility or difficulty conceiving? If it's worked in the past, how do you know it won't fail in the future despite doing it properly? I apologize for challenging your beliefs just a little bit... I've read in numerous places that your method is not entirely effective and I'm trying to understand your point of view better.

DramaGeek · January 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_priests-thoughts-bc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:8d044cfd-029f-4ddb-b6f2-49f5c782e3b7Post:f4843a07-4494-4c80-bcd5-4f570b7295c0">Re: Priest's thoughts on BC</a>:
[QUOTE]Calypso, can you provide the board with any evidence that that method is effective? Personal experience? How would you know it's the actual method rather than existing infertility or difficulty conceiving? If it's worked in the past, how do you know it won't fail in the future despite doing it properly? I apologize for challenging your beliefs just a little bit... I've read in numerous places that your method is not entirely effective and I'm trying to understand your point of view better.
Posted by GJones27[/QUOTE]
Not Calypso, and I'm not sure there's any data out there (and I don't really care enough to research it :-P ), but I know several families with perfectly spaced pregnancies, done using FAM or NFP. One in particular has 4 children, all 3 years apart, exactly like they wanted. Others avoided with no problems for several years before deciding to TTC and conceived easily in the first 2-3 months of trying. I realize it's all anecdotal, but it's enough for me to believe that if a person <em>wants to, </em>it can and will work. That said, my understanding is it takes a while to get the charting down and I'm lazy, so we haven't tried it.

Calypso1977 · January 2011

i have been using it to avoid pregnancy for almost 2 years. not one single scare. i know exactly when im ovulating. the biggest reason it fails is not the method, btu rather lack of self control. you have to be strong enough to forego sex when you are during your fertile phase. its foolproof as there are several indicators of fertility, all pertaining to your cervical mucus, position of your cervix, temperature. if all the signs line up, you know you are fertile or infertile. if there's any doubt, we personally err on the side of caution and abstain. i think this is where hte method can and does fail. people take chances.

a ton of gals on teh catholic board are using it with success, and i know a few ladies on the E board who also chart not for religious reasons, but for health. if anyone wants further discussion on the method, i urge you to come over to the catholic board, we have several threads over there and a lot of collective knowledge.

also, on the bump, there are tons who use it to achieve pregnancy. i know several ladies who were able to get pregnant on the first or second try. that's whats great abotu it. becuase you know exactly when youre fertile, you can use it to avoid or achieve.

check out www.tcoyf.com its a great website of information.

How would you know it's the actual method rather than existing infertility or difficulty conceiving?

you could make that argument abotu any method of BC.

newlyseliski · January 2011

I've had irregular cycles since I was 14... my first doctor's standard operating procedure was just to put me on the pill. Rather than helping... it masked a whole host of health issues that I never would have discovered had I not advocated to be switched to a different medication. My next doctor tested many different hormone levels and discovered that I have polycystic ovarian syndrome and was also able to detect that I had Hashimoto's thyroiditis and papillary thyroid cancer. I had my thyroid removed when I was 17 and am on metformin now for PCOS, which has made a world of difference in regularizing my cycles to a more normal length instead of the unpredictable gaps of 2-6 months at a time! The pill does not treat or "fix" PCOS, even though it is most often prescribed for it.

My fiance and I started taking Creighton Method NFP classes 9 months before our wedding date because I knew in advance of my health issues that might affect my charting. We have not technically begun applying it yet (we've abstained our entire relationship and intend to do so until our wedding night)... I could confidently say that we could have sex today and I would not get pregnant because I know that I am not fertile and will not have my period for at least 9 more days. Charting is a bit more work than taking a pill or getting an IUD, but the self-knowledge and avoidance of taking in extra hormones that your body doesn't need is well worth it!

agapecarrie · January 2011

NFP is designed for women with irregular cycles, otherwise one wouldn't need it, they could just count the calender.

It is extremely effective (more so than any other kind of artificial birth control). It is based on symptoms...the body tells you when you are fertile.

Condoms get credit for preventing a pregnancy when over 3/4 of the time one wouldn't have occurred anyway. So the failure rate is actually way higher than given.

When charting, I discovered problems that I never would have found without charting,which were then fixed.

mcdol3 · January 2011

GJones - I recently stopped using BCP for health reasons and the fact it was really screwing with my body. 4 different pills in 2 years and breakthrough bleeding on all of them at different times. My FI and I decided together to use NFP.
I know it works because a: we're not pregnant. b: my two sisters have used it and perfectly spaced out their children like the wanted them to be.
I had an NFP course and the teacher-couple we had has 6 children. All of them perfectly planned. They used it to TTA for a few years and then when they decided to have kids, it was simple.
The nice thing about NFP is that you can use it to TTA one month and TTC the next.
It's as effective as people make it. My FI and I are both fully aware of what my body is doing (he actually keeps the chart, not me although I check to make sure he got everything I told him lol).
I know you didn't ask for NFP information, but as someone who was on the pill for 10 years, I can tell you it's made a world of difference to FI and I.

mica178 · January 2011

Can I clarify a few points? Once upon a time, I started the OB/Gyn interest group at my medical school, so I know a bit about birth control.

1. There are two main types of oral contraceptive. There's the combined pill and the progestin-only pill. The combined pill has estrogen and progestin, and it prevents ovulation. The progestin-only pill works to thicken the cervical mucosa but also to make the endometrial lining less hospitable for implantation. So the Physicians for Life group is against the progestin-only pill because in the case that sperm get past the cervical mucosa, fertilization is possible but not implantation. If you believe that human life begins at fertilization, the progestin-only pill is a no no.

2. The copper IUD does work by making the endometrial lining of the uterus less hospitable for implantation as a major component of its efficacy. It does so by irritating the lining. So while it is also spermacidal, it's still considered a no no among people who believe that life begins at fertilization.

3. NFP is effective, at least as effective as any birth control used diligently. Most birth control fails come from improper use (not using the condom for the whole sexual act, miss-timing pills, etc.), not from a failure of the method. Many people in medicine mistake NFP for the rhythm method, which has a high failure rate. NFP is rarely taught in medical schools, so many non-Christians are not aware of its workings. But I have read TCOYF and find that it makes complete endocrinological sense.

catarntina · January 2011

I had a very similar reaction to NFP. I'm Catholic. I went to my Deacon to start marriage prep, and he said that we had to attend a class to learn about NFP. H and I looked at eachother like, "This guy is crazy! I don't want 15 kids!" The Deacon said, "Ah. I get that look a lot. Please just keep an open mind."

After the first class, I was completely shocked at how scientific this is! I am an engineer, and I was so thrilled all the science behind it. I make charts and graphs all the time, this was great!

But, I was still slightly skeptical... Does this really work? Again, I'm engineer, I needed facts, numbers... So I did my own research -- not research sponsored by the Church. I googled effectiveness of NFP. It was shown to be 98% effective if used correctly. Birth Control pill is 99%, condoms are even less because they can break or be defective.

The symptothermal method (STM) is a form of natural family planning (NFP) that enables couples to identify accurately the time of the woman's fertile phase by measuring her temperature and observing cervical secretions. In the largest, prospective study of STM, the researchers found that if the couples then either abstained from sex or used a barrier method during the fertile period, the rate of unplanned pregnancies per year was 0.4% and 0.6% respectively. Out of all the 900 women who took part in the study, including those who had unprotected sex during their fertile period, 1.8 per 100 became unintentionally pregnant.

Source: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070221065200.htm

This shows that if you abstain during fertile times, the rate of unplanned pregnancy is 0.4%.

Religious reasons, aside. I was so happy with this method from a scientific standpoint, that I am now telling all my girlfriends about it. When I was on BCP (I had heavy bleeding, severe cramping, and irregular cycles so the doc wrote a script), I was paying $50 a MONTH. H and I looked at the cost of condoms... and my jaw dropped. I was so depressed on BCP. I laid on the couch, I couldn't get up. They tried switching pills. Nothing. I didn't want to have anything to do with anybody. It was awful. Since getting off the pill, everything has been looking up.

Now, Catholics also believe that you should be open to children. If you get pregnant while actively abstaining during fertile times, then God really wanted you to have that kid and it should be construed as a blessing. Not a burden. It took me a while to come to that conclusion myself.

bel138 · January 2011

As another who was all about OB/GYN in medical school, I want to ditto everything that mica said. It's all about compliance. And I'm currently participating in a large scale study of the Creighton Method. Researchers know there is a need for a better designed modern study to prove what everyone here has said, so they're finally doing it.

Also, maybe you should revisit the menstrual cycle including the hormone fluctuations and symptoms. True Fertility Awareness programs are based on solid science. There is no logical way it SHOULDN'T work if practiced correctly (just like all other froms of contraceptives). It's not like your body all of a sudden pops out an egg without any warning.

Jay&Marissa · January 2011

i completey disagree. BC is only as effective as the person using it wants it to be, meaning, if you dont chart properly, it wont work. if you dont remember ot take your pill, it wont work. if you dont remember to put a condom on, or dont put it on properly, it wont work.

I totally agree. We have been using FAM/NFP for 6 months with success and my parents used it successfully for 25 years. It's all about how diligent you are with it. We've both gotten to know my cycle very well (pretty regular, but it does vary a bit) and it has done wonders for our communication as a married couple. Plus I never have to worry about any side effects and they don't call the post-fertile phase the "honeymoon period" for nothing!

It's actually very sad that the science behind NFP is not taught in med school (at least most of the time). My husband is in his first year right now and I will be very interested to see what he is taught. My FIL and MIL both went to med school in the eighties and were not taught anything. My FIL went into OB/GYN. My MIL said that when they learned the method for their own use she couldn't believe that none of it was ever taught to them in med school.

Jay&Marissa · January 2011

Oh, and FWIW, I know more "oops" babies born on the birth control bill than NFP...and I know a lot of Catholics.

Calypso1977 · January 2011

yes, i know at least 3 oops babies as a result of the pill. in both cases, they were baby #3 and no exactly ideal for the families that had them.

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