OK, can someone please explain this to me?

CLoGreenEyes · September 2014

So, forgive me, but after being off the dating scene for over half a decade, I'm a little rusty (OK, a lot rusty). Can y'all please be my voices of sanity and tell me if I'm misunderstanding something?

I have gone on dates recently that were obviously dates. And then I have hung out with guys in a more casual way that, to me, doesn't seem like dating. According to my family and a few friends, ANY time a man asks to hang out, it's a date, even if they don't USE the word "date," because apparently men and women don't get together just to play nice and make friends. I just...I don't get that.

There are two specific situations I'm thinking of right now, where the gentleman in question knows (at least in general terms) that I'm not interested in dating anyone right now; we get together for what I think is a friendly meal/conversation/whatever; and there is some flirtation or other communication that makes me feel like he doesn't actually get it. I enjoy spending time with these guys due to shared hobbies and groups of friends but am not interested in dating them. So I guess I'm wondering if I'm crazy for pursuing a friendship with these people, and if it's even possible with the opposite sex? Is it a case-by-case basis? Am I making too big a deal since no has actually said anything about date vs. not date in the first place? (I'm guessing it's the last one, but some of my close confidantes have made me question myself.) I don't know, I'M SO CONFUSED.

I feel like they made a movie out of this once...

bethsmiles · September 2014

It's bullshit that anytime a man asks to hang out it's a date. Usually people who think that also think men and women can't be friends (which is also bullshit).

I totally understand your confusion though. Sometimes something that seems like a date to one person doesn't seem like a date to another person. The world would be so much easier if everyone just used the word "date" instead of being vague and beating around the bush.

I really don't think there's a hard line for what is a date vs. what isn't a date. I feel like as long as you make it clear you aren't interested in dating you can't be held responsible for someone choosing to ignore that fact.

Or you can take this advice:

Or preface every get together with a conversation similar to this:

CLoGreenEyes · September 2014

bethsmiles said:

It's bullshit that anytime a man asks to hang out it's a date. Usually people who think that also think men and women can't be friends (which is also bullshit).

I totally understand your confusion though. Sometimes something that seems like a date to one person doesn't seem like a date to another person. The world would be so much easier if everyone just used the word "date" instead of being vague and beating around the bush.

I really don't think there's a hard line for what is a date vs. what isn't a date. I feel like as long as you make it clear you aren't interested in dating you can't be held responsible for someone choosing to ignore that fact.

Or you can take this advice:

Or preface every get together with a conversation similar to this:

To bolded #1: THANK YOU, that's exactly my perspective.

Bolded #2: Yep, that's my philosophy. I feel like I've been very clear about what I'm (not) interested in, so until they use other vocabulary, I'm going to assume that hanging out is JUST hanging out. Just wanted to make sure I'm not insane for feeling that way.

I love that first gif!

phira · September 2014

In my opinion, unless both parties make it clear that it's a date, it's not a date. And I feel like every high schooler ever needs to learn that.

CLoGreenEyes · September 2014

@Phira, true that. I've gone on a few not-dates-that-turned-into-dates where you get there thinking it's one thing and then BOOM, suddenly the other party is trying to pay for stuff and be snuggly and whatnot, and it's just awkward and uncomfortable.

I just keep wondering if I've somehow gone my whole life missing the signal that says THIS IS A DATE. (Wouldn't surprise me if I have. I can be super oblivious like that.) But I guess the signal is when both people use the proper terminology and call it what it is.

jenna8984 · September 2014

I think it depends what you are doing when you hang out. I have tons of guy friends and we'll get together to watch football, or see an action movie, or BBQ. But we don't like go out to romantic restaurants together, that would be weird.

But no, you can definitely just be friends, keep the flirting to a minimum though so they don't go all postal and say you led them on. I think my guy friends are adorable but I don't flirt with them.

CLoGreenEyes · September 2014

@jenna8984, for sure. I'm definitely not a flirtatious person anyway - I think I come off as a sincere, kind person who genuinely cares about their lives. If that gets mistaken for romantic interest, I'm screwed, because that's kinda how I am with everybody.

And yeah, I definitely pay attention to *how* we hang out. It gets tough, though, when you start off expecting to grab a bite at a non-fancy, non-romantic restaurant, and suddenly your plans start morphing into nice dinner, mini-golfing, scenic walks in the park...

I don't think I can actually keep up with this business. My brain does not have the capacity to deal with this level of tomfoolery. Crazy dog lady it is.

eilis1228 · September 2014

While I think it's crazy that you have to explicitly say whether or not it's a date, I've heard stories from friends who have had to explicitly say it's not a date... one story in particular is always hilarious to tell about my friend L, who has been with her husband since they were in high school, so she's never really been single... but her husband didn't really socialize with her friends when she was in college, and he had a weird work schedule as a firefighter/EMT. Anywho, so L meets a friend, we'll call him X, in one of her classes, and they find out they're in a few classes together. Cool, she has a buddy now for those classes. They hang out a few times outside of class during the day to catch meals or study or whatever. All strictly platonic, studious events. 6 months go by, and X asks L what she's up to later on because X wants L to meet his parents. She was confused and thought that was sweet, but said she was busy with her boyfriend or something. X is hurt and dumbfounded. He told L he thought they were dating, and he wanted to introduce his girlfriend to his parents... apparently X's parents were sooo excited to meet L. I mean, wow. Just crazy. Obviously that guy had some social issues, but she found herself in a few similar situations throughout the years. It doesn't hurt to find a way to confirm whether or not you're on a date with someone to be on the safe side. You just never know.

CLoGreenEyes · September 2014

@eilis1228, wow, your poor friend! How awful that she had to explain that um NO we haven't been dating for the past six months! Super awkward.

Not anywhere near that bad, but C didn't know at the beginning of our relationship that date =/= girlfriend and boyfriend right away. On our first date he answered a call while we were out and was like, "Hey, I'm driving my girlfriend home, can I call you back?" Liiiiiiiiittle premature, buddy.

500days · September 2014

Similar to @eilis1228's story. I was planning a 5 year reunion event with an old friend from high school. We texted a lot about the event and went to restaurants and bars to scope out venues. The entire purpose of it all was to select a venue and that was it. After we found the place for the reunion he asked if I wanted to eat dinner with his family one night. I explained that I had dinner prepped at home with my BF. He got all cold shoulder after that, since 90% of planning was done. At the time I had been with FI (then BF) for almost 2 years. Some people are crazy.

bethsmiles · September 2014

BF and I, being the grand romantics that we are, didn't even really realize we had started dating. About a month in someone asked if we were officially a couple yet and that spurred a conversation of "Hmm..have we been going on dates?" "Oh yeah, I guess so" "Well then it's been about a month, I guess we can be exclusive" and we went from there.

CLoGreenEyes · September 2014

ERG. Okay, so the dude I was gonna go climbing with tomorrow just texted me like, "Hey, let's do dinner instead" and just named this new pretty nice Italian place nearby. Is this a situation in which maybe I want to confirm what the hell I'm actually agreeing to? Or just assume he actually listened when I not so subtly explained my not-ready-to-date-ness? Because this perplexes me - he specifically wanted to go climbing when he texted earlier this week.

I know I'm probably way overthinking this, but this sort of thing just stresses me out. I swear I am a generally competent and decisive person in every other area of my life.

[Deleted User] · September 2014

I'm biased. my H and I hung out in college (as just friends), but he was just biding his time until I was ready to be more than just friends. twice (both times we dated). also, both times we dated, I had to make the first move (kissing him) to get us past the friend zone.

I think, unless he starts trying to put some moves on you, just let it go and have fun. you've told him, no need to make it awkward or weird by bringing it up again, especially when you don't even know if he is thinking about it! if you were very honest and open about it when you told him, then I don't think you need to keep bringing it up.

speakeasy14 · September 2014

You're not going crazy. Unfortunately the new trend is vagueness. No one dates anymore. The trend is hanging out. When BF and I first hung out, that's what I thought we were doing, hanging out. So I showed up in sweatpants and a hoodie, thinking I was hanging out with one of my guy friends. He was surprised I dressed like that for a date. There was a serious conversation after that.

I wish real dating still existed so that it is clear what is and is not a date. I would contact the guy and confirm what is going on, it sounds like a date.

lennonkdc · September 2014

So its possible that Climber Guy is just biding his time b/c he really likes you, and likes spending time with you and wants to let you know he's BF material when you're ready. If the fact that he's changed plans on you bothers you then speak up, tell him you were looking forward to climbing, and maybe you can get some wings and beer afterwards. If he presses the issue tell him you're just not up for a fancy night and that if he wants to reschedule so he can check out the new place then you're fine with it.

I think the trick is consistency, if plans seem to be morphing, speak up if you're not ok with it. You don't have to go along to get along. You don't want to date, so don't let yourself get railroaded into a date.

minskat30 · September 2014

Agree with all the advice of the PPs. Just curious though...are you attracted to the guy at all? I know you don't want to date right now but if you are don't close the door just yet, KWIM? If you are attracted to him and not ready and if he knows what he is doing he'll wait it out like @CocoBellaF hubby.

Just also want to put it out there that some men view it is a challenge when you don't want to date and just "hang out" with them. Hopefully that isn't this dude but if he starts making moves, I'd shut it down then if you don't want any part of it.

CLoGreenEyes · September 2014

lennonkdc said:

So its possible that Climber Guy is just biding his time b/c he really likes you, and likes spending time with you and wants to let you know he's BF material when you're ready. If the fact that he's changed plans on you bothers you then speak up, tell him you were looking forward to climbing, and maybe you can get some wings and beer afterwards. If he presses the issue tell him you're just not up for a fancy night and that if he wants to reschedule so he can check out the new place then you're fine with it.

I think the trick is consistency, if plans seem to be morphing, speak up if you're not ok with it. You don't have to go along to get along. You don't want to date, so don't let yourself get railroaded into a date.

This is all what came to mind as I was thinking about this last night, so I'm going to see if maybe we can grab lunch there next week. Thanks for the thoughts, everyone! I feel kind of silly asking, but y'all always calm me down, and the different perspectives really help.

CLoGreenEyes · September 2014

minskat30 said:

Agree with all the advice of the PPs. Just curious though...are you attracted to the guy at all? I know you don't want to date right now but if you are don't close the door just yet, KWIM? If you are attracted to him and not ready and if he knows what he is doing he'll wait it out like @CocoBellaF hubby.

Just also want to put it out there that some men view it is a challenge when you don't want to date and just "hang out" with them. Hopefully that isn't this dude but if he starts making moves, I'd shut it down then if you don't want any part of it.

Good questions. I am really just not interested in him. He's an attractive guy, very nice, and fun to be around - he's the kind of person I would set up with a friend, because he really is a great person. But I just don't feel anything like that.

I hope he's not going to turn out like that either. I was really excited about having a new climbing buddy, I haven't done that in ages and was happy to find someone I could do that with. I don't think he'd be blatantly disrespectful of any boundaries, but something to keep in mind.

eilis1228 · September 2014

If you aren't comfortable being super explicit about date vs. hanging out, you could always invite a third or fourth person out with you guys to lunch or climbing or whatever. It would definitely let him know that you don't see that event as a date.

I do think it's a good idea to opt for lunch at that fancy place instead of dinner. He may not completely understand it's not a date, but it does help doing daytime things instead of going out during normal dating hours.

helloliv · September 2014

I have been in the exact same position, and I'm finding it's happening more now that I've been single for awhile. As @speakeasy14 above said, the new vagueness trend is seriously obnoxious. And there seem to be a lot of men who believe hanging out is a date. Case in point, my boss and I go to the same bar every day for lunch. One of the bartenders and I got to talking about music one day and he said that six or seven of the bartenders were going out to this show next week, and would I want to come along. I've been trying to be more open to doing things with people and making new friends, so I said sure. I gave him my number to let me know when I could pick up the ticket. He's been texting often, and one of the bartenders asked me if I was excited for my date. I'm now in the position of trying to tactfully make it known that I am in no way interested.

My best guy friend, Pat, maintains that in a male/female friendship, there is usually one person who, even if they aren't actively pursuing the other, would be open to dating the other person. (In case you're curious, in the me/Pat situation, that person is me, haha.) I think there is truth to that. I don't think it means that guys/girls can't be just friends, but it's something to consider.

speakeasy14 · September 2014

Modern dating in a nutshell. Sorry I couldn't resist.

lennonkdc · September 2014

I second @eilis1228, I don't think lunch is a good idea. I would just say point blank, "I was hoping to go climbing friday, but if you want to reschedule thats fine. I'd hate for you to waste you're smooth date moves on me, but if you really want to check out X place, my friend so and so and you might really hit it off."

I do have to say a guy who likes you probably will need to hear "I don't want to date you" vs. "I'm not into dating right now" fair or not society is full of guys thinking that they can wait it out/sweep a girl off her feet when she isn't looking. Be forward but kind. You're not interested in dating, that means you don't want to date anyone, not even a little. What you do want is friends.

On the flip side, if the guy is looking to date, cut him loose- Because its not fair to take up the time of someone you don't want to date if they are looking for love.

OK, can someone please explain this to me?

Re: OK, can someone please explain this to me?

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