Not sure what to do, not wanting two ceremonies

nohojax · October 2014

Hi all,

Here is my situation: my FI is Catholic and I am Catholic (his dad is a deacon and he was raised very religious, my mom is Catholic and my dad is Jewish so my upbringing was less strictly Catholic, but I have been baptized, penanced, first communioned, confirmed, and mildly emotionally tortured in private Catholic school, as has he). We definitely want to have any future child baptized.

However - I don't want a Catholic wedding ceremony. I want my (gay) best friend to officiate, I'd like to get married outdoors, I want us to write cheesy vows and have it be a celebration of us and our relationship, and although we attend mass at an absolutely beautiful church, that just doesn't feel like "us." I never envisioned a Catholic ceremony. However, my FI and my mom both did envision that.

I thought about having a small, immediate-family-only Catholic ceremony and then the large outdoor civil ceremony, but that doesn't sit well with me - mainly because I don't want two ceremonies. My FI said he will be on board with whatever decision I make, my mother maybe less so but I think she'll be okay with it if I choose to have a non-Catholic ceremony. From internet research I've learned that the Catholic church will likely be willing to baptize future child as we are both Catholic, it is the first marriage for both of us, and we will be happy to convalidate our marriage as a sacrament. I'm reaching out to see if there's an option that I'm missing. (Luckily, I have a lot of time to think about it - we're not getting married until late 2016, when I'll be done with nursing school.) Thanks in advance for any insight and ideas.

AddieCake · October 2014

You should not have 2 ceremonies. You and your fiance need to get on the same page about the kind of wedding you want. There is going to have to be compromise or concession here.

holyguacamole79 · October 2014

nohojax said:

Hi all,
Here is my situation: my FI is Catholic and I am Catholic (his dad is a deacon and he was raised very religious, my mom is Catholic and my dad is Jewish so my upbringing was less strictly Catholic, but I have been baptized, penanced, first communioned, confirmed, and mildly emotionally tortured in private Catholic school, as has he). We definitely want to have any future child baptized.
However - I don't want a Catholic wedding ceremony. I want my (gay) best friend to officiate, I'd like to get married outdoors, I want us to write cheesy vows and have it be a celebration of us and our relationship, and although we attend mass at an absolutely beautiful church, that just doesn't feel like "us." I never envisioned a Catholic ceremony. However, my FI and my mom both did envision that.
I thought about having a small, immediate-family-only Catholic ceremony and then the large outdoor civil ceremony, but that doesn't sit well with me - mainly because I don't want two ceremonies. My FI said he will be on board with whatever decision I make, my mother maybe less so but I think she'll be okay with it if I choose to have a non-Catholic ceremony. From internet research I've learned that the Catholic church will likely be willing to baptize future child as we are both Catholic, it is the first marriage for both of us, and we will be happy to convalidate our marriage as a sacrament. I'm reaching out to see if there's an option that I'm missing. (Luckily, I have a lot of time to think about it - we're not getting married until late 2016, when I'll be done with nursing school.) Thanks in advance for any insight and ideas.

Don't have two ceremonies. You are right that your future children can be baptized Catholic regardless of your marriage status. BUT your convalidation may be more difficult since you and FI are currently Catholic.

Stop looking at your church as just a wedding venue. And it's not a matter of whether or not the church is "you," but the fact is that you are Catholic and marriage is a sacrament.

Also, it's really not relevant that your beat friend is gay. It doesn't make him any more or less qualified to officiate your ceremony.

You and FI need to get on the same page and agree on what kind of MARRIAGE you want.

CMGragain · October 2014

It is impossible for you to have two wedding ceremonies. If you have a ceremony in the church, that will be your only wedding ceremony. The priest will have you sign the legal documents. Anything else is just a show. If I were a guest and found out that you were married in the church, and that the ceremony I was invited to wasn't real. I would be insulted.
Convalidations are not usually granted just because you wanted an outdoor ceremony, and I think you should be married in the church if you plan to continue to be practicing Catholics. It would be hard to explain to your children why you can't participate in the Eucharist.

Jen4948 · October 2014

If you want to be a practicing Catholic and have your ceremony recognized as valid by the Church, then it does mean that you need to marry in the Church according to their rules, even if that's not what you'd personally prefer for your wedding. Especially if that's really what your FI wants. It would perhaps be nice if the Church's rules for what constitutes a valid Catholic wedding were not so strict, but they are what they are.

I'd instead focus on planning those elements of the wedding that are entirely up to you and your FI.

artbyallie · October 2014

I don't understand how, if you and your groom are practicing, believing Catholics, that you would want anything but a valid Catholic ceremony. You are at least right in thinking that you shouldn't do two. The second would be nothing but a performance since you would already be married. I'm also not sure why you bring up your best friend's sexuality since I don't see how it's relevant. Regardless of orientation, you can't have some random person officiate a ceremony if you also need it to be recognized by the Church.

Tangent: Perhaps I should start identifying my friends by their orientation. That could get confusing. I know multiple people of the same orientation. Except pansexual. Only one friend has told me they identify as such.

nohojax · October 2014

Hi there, thanks for some helpful input. The point of mentioning my friend's orientation is that homosexuality is not exactly endorsed by the Catholic church, which is just one of the reasons I am iffy on having a big church wedding. To be clear - this ceremony issue is not a point of contention with my FI. Jen4948 had some really helpful comments, and artbyallie's mention of "believing Catholics" made me realize that my reluctance to have a Catholic wedding is deeper seated than just wanting to get married outdoors and write our own vows, and is something I'll have to figure out myself and with my FI and family. Thanks everyone for weighing in - luckily I have a year or so to do my soul-searching.

holyguacamole79 · October 2014

nohojax said:

Hi there, thanks for some helpful input. The point of mentioning my friend's orientation is that homosexuality is not exactly endorsed by the Catholic church, which is just one of the reasons I am iffy on having a big church wedding. To be clear - this ceremony issue is not a point of contention with my FI. Jen4948 had some really helpful comments, and artbyallie's mention of "believing Catholics" made me realize that my reluctance to have a Catholic wedding is deeper seated than just wanting to get married outdoors and write our own vows, and is something I'll have to figure out myself and with my FI and family. Thanks everyone for weighing in - luckily I have a year or so to do my soul-searching.

I'd encourage you to look into some Pre-Cana so you can do this soul searching with your FI and a member of the clergy.

lyndausvi · October 2014

DH and I and were both raised Catholic (up to and including confirmation). We are not practicing though. Both of our families still do. All our parents attend church on a weekly basis. All my siblings go to church weekly. I have nieces and nephews in Catholic HS and Catholic college. Cousins who are dean of a Catholic school. I even have nuns and priests second cousins.

I always wanted a beach wedding. That meant no Catholic wedding. We were both on the same page with that choice. My parents (who paid) were fine, as it was not a surprise since I've said that I wanted a beach wedding for as long as I can remember. DH's mom wasn't thrilled, but got over it (well at least in public she did). The entire family (even the nuns) supported our choice. Especially since we were not practicing. Doesn't mean they were not disappointed, but they still supported us.

If you want an outdoor wedding have one. but own your decision. In the Catholic church you can't have it both ways. You either follow the rules or you don't.

That all said, if you are still practicing and plan on having kids raised in the church I would have a Catholic ceremony. I feel like it's the right thing to do as a practicing Catholic. If I was still practicing I would have picked the church over a beach wedding, no question. One reason I didn't even consider the church was because I didn't attend anyway. It would have been hypocritical IMO.

banana468 · October 2014

nohojax said:
Hi there, thanks for some helpful input. The point of mentioning my friend's orientation is that homosexuality is not exactly endorsed by the Catholic church, which is just one of the reasons I am iffy on having a big church wedding. To be clear - this ceremony issue is not a point of contention with my FI. Jen4948 had some really helpful comments, and artbyallie's mention of "believing Catholics" made me realize that my reluctance to have a Catholic wedding is deeper seated than just wanting to get married outdoors and write our own vows, and is something I'll have to figure out myself and with my FI and family. Thanks everyone for weighing in - luckily I have a year or so to do my soul-searching.

Ditto @lyndausvi. Just make sure that you don't book anything until you figure out what you want. The Church won't just let you have a ceremony on no notice so you need to determine what the priority is and then begin to make plans.

I wouldn't have a secular ceremony with the premise that you'll just have a convalidation later. Many parishes don't take kindly to that and won't let it happen. Also keep in mind that getting married outside the church automatically means you're no longer a Catholic in good standing and therfore you are unable to receive Sacraments or be a sponsor for Confirmation or serve as a God parent. Only you can decide if that's something important to you.

artbyallie · October 2014

I'm glad you've decided to think more carefully about the reasons for having or not having a Catholic wedding. Hopefully you and your fiancé will be able to work out what role you want religion to play in your marriage and your lives. Definitely an important conversation to have.

MobKaz · October 2014

nohojax said:

Hi all,
Here is my situation: my FI is Catholic and I am Catholic (his dad is a deacon and he was raised very religious, my mom is Catholic and my dad is Jewish so my upbringing was less strictly Catholic, but I have been baptized, penanced, first communioned, confirmed, and mildly emotionally tortured in private Catholic school, as has he). We definitely want to have any future child baptized.
However - I don't want a Catholic wedding ceremony. I want my (gay) best friend to officiate, I'd like to get married outdoors, I want us to write cheesy vows and have it be a celebration of us and our relationship, and although we attend mass at an absolutely beautiful church, that just doesn't feel like "us." I never envisioned a Catholic ceremony. However, my FI and my mom both did envision that.
I thought about having a small, immediate-family-only Catholic ceremony and then the large outdoor civil ceremony, but that doesn't sit well with me - mainly because I don't want two ceremonies. My FI said he will be on board with whatever decision I make, my mother maybe less so but I think she'll be okay with it if I choose to have a non-Catholic ceremony. From internet research I've learned that the Catholic church will likely be willing to baptize future child as we are both Catholic, it is the first marriage for both of us, and we will be happy to convalidate our marriage as a sacrament. I'm reaching out to see if there's an option that I'm missing. (Luckily, I have a lot of time to think about it - we're not getting married until late 2016, when I'll be done with nursing school.) Thanks in advance for any insight and ideas.

For most couples who marry within the Catholic Church, they do so because they see God as every bit a part of the "us" and their relationship. If you do not see it in that light, then it makes sense that this sacrament is not for you.

BlueBirdMB · October 2014

I'm Jewish, very non-religoius, but I did have certain things I envisioned when I got married. My husband is Hindu. Every. single. person. we've heard of in the family and outside the family who were both religions (actually we knew quite a few Jewish/Hindu marriages), had two ceremonies, but we were dead set on having one. My husband's family through a fit. They wanted all or nothing- we either had a full Hindu-only ceremony, or a ceremony with nothing Hindu at all. I just couldn't understand this mind set. It was a huge source of stress. We hired a celebrant, which is like a JP, but has been trained in traditions from many religions. We incorporated traditions from both religions and at the end of the day, both of our families thought it was a beautiful ceremony. Now I realize that if you're Catholic, you have to get married in the Church. But if you don't see meaning in it, then you shouldn't do it. Don't let your families dictate your ceremony- your ceremony should be what's important to you two only.

cafarrie · October 2014

My DH and I were married in the Catholic church and our priest gave us the option to write our own vows. As long as we had the official Catholic Sacrament language in there well we could add whatever we wanted (we didn't exercise this option). Some priests are more relaxed than others when it comes to your own vows. If that's something important to you, ask your current priest about it, or try to find one that's open to the idea. Your gay best friend could do a reading or something along those lines!

nohojax · October 2014

That's great news, cafarrie, thank you!! And thanks everyone for the input.

holyguacamole79 · October 2014

Cafarrie's anecdote is more the exception than the rule ... I wouldn't count on finding a priest willing to do that.

flantastic · October 2014

cafarrie said:

My DH and I were married in the Catholic church and our priest gave us the option to write our own vows. As long as we had the official Catholic Sacrament language in there well we could add whatever we wanted (we didn't exercise this option). Some priests are more relaxed than others when it comes to your own vows. If that's something important to you, ask your current priest about it, or try to find one that's open to the idea. Your gay best friend could do a reading or something along those lines!

I've seen this happen once - it was allowed by a Jesuit from California, for those of you who know what the stereotype might mean

Haven't looked into whether adding your own stuff to the vows is a legitimate church-sanctioned option, but most priests I've heard say that it almost cheapens what you're truly promising, and the vows that millions of people have been saying for years and years, if you try to "make it your own" with anecdotes or by including less meaningful promises like "I promise never to leave the toilet seat up," even if that's an in-joke with the two of you. IMHO, customizing your vows usually makes them worse, not better.

As for the best friend - yes, find a role for him! Why can't he be in your BP, or read, etc.?

AprilH81 · October 2014

Can you share your personal vows in a letter before the wedding or speak them to each other during a First Look or other non-ceremony time?

OliveOilsMom · October 2014

H & I wrote letters to each other that we opened the morning of our wedding. They were basically what our personal vows would have been, if we didn't have a Catholic wedding.

Also, most of your post is about you and your desire for the outdoor wedding, but your FI is Catholic too. Does your FI realize what the consequences will be if there is no Catholic ceremony? He needs to be in this discussion just as much as you. Not being able to receive Communion is a big deal.

Also, your friend will be allowed to do a reading or stand on your side in your WP. It's not like he is forbidden from entering a Church, just because of his sexual orientation.

holyguacamole79 · October 2014

OliveOilsMom said:

H & I wrote letters to each other that we opened the morning of our wedding. They were basically what our personal vows would have been, if we didn't have a Catholic wedding.

Also, most of your post is about you and your desire for the outdoor wedding, but your FI is Catholic too. Does your FI realize what the consequences will be if there is no Catholic ceremony? He needs to be in this discussion just as much as you. Not being able to receive Communion is a big deal.

Also, your friend will be allowed to do a reading or stand on your side in your WP. It's not like he is forbidden from entering a Church, just because of his sexual orientation.

VERY true. I had several LGBT friends and relatives at our wedding. Our priest was actually happy to see them (he's known my family for 30+ years).

southernbelle0915 · October 2014

OliveOilsMom said:

H & I wrote letters to each other that we opened the morning of our wedding. They were basically what our personal vows would have been, if we didn't have a Catholic wedding.

Also, most of your post is about you and your desire for the outdoor wedding, but your FI is Catholic too. Does your FI realize what the consequences will be if there is no Catholic ceremony? He needs to be in this discussion just as much as you. Not being able to receive Communion is a big deal.

Also, your friend will be allowed to do a reading or stand on your side in your WP. It's not like he is forbidden from entering a Church, just because of his sexual orientation.

All of this.

I understand wanting to get married outside (I did) and I can understand wanting to have a friend officiate. But your FI wants to get married in the Catholic church. Your mothers opinion is irrelevant since it's not her wedding. This is between you and your FI. And you must be willing to compromise and realize when the stakes are high for one or both of you, as they are here. That's what marriage is all about.

May I suggest a few things that would help you compromise?

Get married in the church.
Have a tented reception outside in a beautiful park.
Ask your friend to stand up on your side or a reader. Or ask him/her to lead a prayer before dinner.
If your priest won't allow you to write your own vows, write each other letters with personalized vows. You can do as @OliveOilsMom did and open them the morning of or as DH and I plan to do and open them on your anniversary.

nohojax · October 2014

Thanks all. Yes I understand (from my extensive googling) that writing our own vows would be the exception and not the rule for Catholic ceremonies, but it's nice to know there's a possibility. It's something to talk to the priest about - and there definitely wouldn't be any silly inside jokes, just things that I want to say to him to make it more personal to our relationship. And if we can't, the letters are a great idea. There are two readings for the Mass, I believe - we were going to have FI's dad do one and my mom do the other, but I'm sure I will find a role for my friend...maybe responsorial psalm or something at the reception. (We're not having a bridal party - my sister and FI's sister will be witnesses.) And good news - I just found out we can use the banquet hall at my dad's soccer club for free, and they already have tables, chairs, linens, plates, etc., and it's only a few minutes from our church!

Not sure what to do, not wanting two ceremonies

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