Nativity

[Deleted User] · December 2014

I have no problem with religious holidays etc. But I work in HR... where we're kind of supposed to be "neutral." You know, we're those people who make you call it the holiday party instead of the Christmas party.

And there's a shit ton of Christmas decorations up in my department and a NATIVITY set up underneath the Christmas tree.

Anyone else think this is weird in an HR setting?

AddieCake · December 2014

I don't think it is weird at all. Everyone should be able to put up whatever holiday decorations they want. It's a tad ironic, yes, but not weird.

[Deleted User] · December 2014

I guess it's not weird if it's in your personal office or cube, but this is the first thing you see when you walk into our space.

You're right; ironic is probably the better word though.

doeydo · December 2014

Are there any other religious winter holiday decorations?

[Deleted User] · December 2014

doeydo said:

Are there any other religious winter holiday decorations?

No. Everything else is "secular" Christmas. Garland. Stockings w/ our names on them. Christmas tree w/ all the decorations.

CMGragain · December 2014

Bring in a menorah. That should make your statement.

IrishPirate60 · December 2014

My mom, who worked for a state agency that enforced civil rights, would be dragging out a menorah and stringing the lights on the Hanukkah bush.

holyguacamole79 · December 2014

Is it the company's decorations, or is it specific to one person?

lyndausvi · December 2014

I can't say I've ever seen a nativity scene in a HR department. Or any company I've worked at. Just "secular" decorations. That said, I have a seen a bunch of menorahs, so I don't see how it would be much different.

I personally hate when people get all PC when it comes to holiday decorations. I say put out everything. Nativity scenes and menorahs and whatever any other religion wants to display.

amelisha · December 2014

I do think it's ironic but at least it's passive, you know? Not a lot of people are legit offended by the presence of a nativity, I don't think.

However, I filled in for a friend in a pinch working fancy holiday parties at a fancy hotel this weekend, where the lead partner of the law firms (both nights!) hosting these company parties got up and said grace before dinner, though, and I was legitimately kind of shocked. They weren't general, vague non-denominational graces either, they were all Heavenly Fathers and Lord Jesuses and Biblical references. And long. Like five solid minutes long.

I really don't care what people believe but don't do it at work functions, particularly when you're inflicting it on everyone. Like...maybe it would have been one thing if we were talking a dozen people whom the managing partner probably knows very personally, but we're talking over a hundred people (one was three hundred...) who doubtless had a variety of religious beliefs, and a formal event where people were seated and a captive audience. It was painful and I could see how uncomfortable some people were.

Viczaesar · December 2014

I vote you add a menorah and a festivus pole.

[Deleted User] · December 2014

holyguacamole79 said:
Is it the company's decorations, or is it specific to one person?

Company decorations.

[Deleted User] · December 2014

Viczaesar said:
I vote you add a menorah and a festivus pole.

A Festivus pole would kick ass. We'd be here til next December with the "Airing of Grievances" though!

holyguacamole79 · December 2014

FeeleyToBe said:

holyguacamole79 said:
Is it the company's decorations, or is it specific to one person?
Company decorations.

Yeah, even as a faithful Catholic, I'd side-eye this a bit. There should also be a menorah.

climbingsingle · December 2014

holyguacamole79 said:

FeeleyToBe said:

holyguacamole79 said:
Is it the company's decorations, or is it specific to one person?
Company decorations.
Yeah, even as a faithful Catholic, I'd side-eye this a bit. There should also be a menorah.

I'm not catholic anymore, but ditto. If it's company decorations, they should be recognizing other holidays too. I don't know that I've ever seen a nativity in any of the places I've worked. Just Christmas trees and menorahs.

steph861 · December 2014

ClimbingBrideNY said:

Is it the company's decorations, or is it specific to one person?
Company decorations.
Yeah, even as a faithful Catholic, I'd side-eye this a bit. There should also be a menorah.
I'm not catholic anymore, but ditto. If it's company decorations, they should be recognizing other holidays too. I don't know that I've ever seen a nativity in any of the places I've worked. Just Christmas trees and menorahs.

Me neither. I'd be a little weirded out if I saw a nativity scene in any office, but the fact that it's HR (and they're company decorations!) is even weirder.

lyndausvi · December 2014

ClimbingBrideNY said:

Is it the company's decorations, or is it specific to one person?
Company decorations.
Yeah, even as a faithful Catholic, I'd side-eye this a bit. There should also be a menorah.
I'm not catholic anymore, but ditto. If it's company decorations, they should be recognizing other holidays too. I don't know that I've ever seen a nativity in any of the places I've worked. Just Christmas trees and menorahs.

Isn't a menorah just as much of a religious symbol as a nativity scene? I fail to see the difference in having one over the other.

steph861 · December 2014

lyndausvi said:

ClimbingBrideNY said:

Is it the company's decorations, or is it specific to one person?
Company decorations.
Yeah, even as a faithful Catholic, I'd side-eye this a bit. There should also be a menorah.
I'm not catholic anymore, but ditto. If it's company decorations, they should be recognizing other holidays too. I don't know that I've ever seen a nativity in any of the places I've worked. Just Christmas trees and menorahs.

Isn't a menorah just as much of a religious symbol as a nativity scene? I fail to see the difference in having one over the other.

That's the point - to make a statement about political correctness (or lack thereof).

doeydo · December 2014

lyndausvi said:

ClimbingBrideNY said:

Is it the company's decorations, or is it specific to one person?
Company decorations.
Yeah, even as a faithful Catholic, I'd side-eye this a bit. There should also be a menorah.
I'm not catholic anymore, but ditto. If it's company decorations, they should be recognizing other holidays too. I don't know that I've ever seen a nativity in any of the places I've worked. Just Christmas trees and menorahs.

Isn't a menorah just as much of a religious symbol as a nativity scene? I fail to see the difference in having one over the other.

I think the point is to be more inclusive of other religious holidays and not just have Christian and secular decorations.

Viczaesar said:

I vote you add a menorah and a festivus pole.

And a kinara and Lord Ganesha statue.

AddieCake · December 2014

I feel like if anyone has an issue with the nativity and lack of other religions' holiday decorations, then they should say something about it. If it is that big of a deal to you, speak up.

holyguacamole79 · December 2014

The only time I've seen a a nativity in a place of work is in a small company or a church. I mean, if someone brought it into their own cube, nbd.

Viczaesar · December 2014

doeydo said:

lyndausvi said:

ClimbingBrideNY said:

Is it the company's decorations, or is it specific to one person?
Company decorations.
Yeah, even as a faithful Catholic, I'd side-eye this a bit. There should also be a menorah.
I'm not catholic anymore, but ditto. If it's company decorations, they should be recognizing other holidays too. I don't know that I've ever seen a nativity in any of the places I've worked. Just Christmas trees and menorahs.

Isn't a menorah just as much of a religious symbol as a nativity scene? I fail to see the difference in having one over the other.

I think the point is to be more inclusive of other religious holidays and not just have Christian and secular decorations.

Viczaesar said:

I vote you add a menorah and a festivus pole.

And a kinara and Lord Ganesha statue.

Kinara! I was trying to remember what that's called. I have a lovely one made out of soap stone.

Kahlyla · December 2014

lyndausvi said:

I can't say I've ever seen a nativity scene in a HR department. Or any company I've worked at. Just "secular" decorations. That said, I have a seen a bunch of menorahs, so I don't see how it would be much different.

I personally hate when people get all PC when it comes to holiday decorations. I say put out everything. Nativity scenes and menorahs and whatever any other religion wants to display.

That's what our City Hall does. They have a huge Nativity scene, a giant menorah, beautiful lit trees, snowmen, reindeer, etc. Whatevs, I'm an atheist, and I love it all. LOVE Christmas and everything about it. Pushing one belief system is what would piss me off (which, yeah, is kind of what's happening in this case).

I guess I see it as, if I view Jesus' birth as a fictional story, then why would I consider a Nativity scene any more offensive than a scene from the Nutcracker, or a Santa-and-sleigh? It's a tableau that's relevant to the season.

lacqueredlover · December 2014

Yeah I would think that's kind of weird. The nativity is pretty religious. I'm fine with "santa" christmas for company decorations but bringing the religious side in is just odd to me. At my office building, they have a gigantic christmas tree with a train set underneath it and a tiny menorah.

but outside, there are disco ball looking Reindeer on top of the 3 entrances with hoof prints leading up them and a sled with 3 reindeer missing so it looks like they escaped. It's hilarious.

dcbride86 · December 2014

As someone who will (hopefully) be an employment/EEO lawyer within the next year, my jaw literally dropped when I saw that. You're right - HR should absolutely be neutral. Doing that is asking employees to say they felt alienated. But then again, I'm usually overly cautious because I want to make sure no lawsuits can come up, and nobody can show any alienation.

dcbride86 · December 2014

lyndausvi said:

I can't say I've ever seen a nativity scene in a HR department. Or any company I've worked at. Just "secular" decorations. That said, I have a seen a bunch of menorahs, so I don't see how it would be much different.

I personally hate when people get all PC when it comes to holiday decorations. I say put out everything. Nativity scenes and menorahs and whatever any other religion wants to display.

Personally, I agree with you. But I think HR departments have to be overly cautious - some people would get offended by a nativity scene, and it's much better in the long run to just avoid all of that

princessofgenovia · December 2014

When I worked in a hotel we did a big huge Christmas tree in the middle of the lobby and then one of our accountant people would come up and he'd set up a tiny Christmas village with snow, and then right next to it a nativity scene. All of it his own stuff.

Well one year we had a new girl on staff who was Jewish and she asked if she could be allowed to set up a menorah and maybe some dreidels or something. Boss man said sure go for it. She sets up her stuff next to his. She never made a big deal of anything and even complimented him on how nice his nativity scene was and how he obviously enjoyed setting this stuff up.

He threw a fit when her Hanukkah stuff was next to his Christmas stuff because this was the Christmas season and it was about Jesus! Not the Jews! So HR got involved and then the only thing we could have was the tree because that's not straight up Christian (hell it has pagan roots) and some poinsettias because no one had been offended over those.

chibiyui · December 2014

princessofgenovia said:

When I worked in a hotel we did a big huge Christmas tree in the middle of the lobby and then one of our accountant people would come up and he'd set up a tiny Christmas village with snow, and then right next to it a nativity scene. All of it his own stuff.

Well one year we had a new girl on staff who was Jewish and she asked if she could be allowed to set up a menorah and maybe some dreidels or something. Boss man said sure go for it. She sets up her stuff next to his. She never made a big deal of anything and even complimented him on how nice his nativity scene was and how he obviously enjoyed setting this stuff up.

He threw a fit when her Hanukkah stuff was next to his Christmas stuff because this was the Christmas season and it was about Jesus! Not the Jews! So HR got involved and then the only thing we could have was the tree because that's not straight up Christian (hell it has pagan roots) and some poinsettias because no one had been offended over those.

I love any and all Christmas displays, but I can't STAND people who get upset over other religious decorations. No bro, December is not just for Christians. If you want to get pissy over a menorah, you don't get any creches.

I forget, did anyone post about this yet?
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/12/04/satanic-temple-approved-for-capitol-holiday-display/

Anyway, specifically to the OP, I'd see if it's possible to add a menorah to the holiday decor. Just because while yes, anyone uncomfortable with the nativity can speak up, doesn't mean they'll feel okay speaking up. I don't think it's too far-fetched to suggest that some employees feel like speaking against an already established work culture that makes them feel uncomfortable, could hinder their job security or upward movement.

abbyj700 · December 2014

Yeah - for HR this is pretty awful.

I work at a small company- all consultants. Technically, no employees. And we have secular shit all over our office, it looks like Christmas threw up. And we're having a Holiday Party, not a Christmas party - as we are a pretty open group with many different religious and spiritual beliefs.

But my favorite decoration in the whole office is this picture taped to the bossman's brother's cube.

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