Thoughts?

mrsjpgreenawalt · December 2014

Hi! My name is Caroline. SO's name is Jordan. I'm 18 and he's 24. I know, seems a little weird. We have a unique bond. We've decided that we want to get married, although, we don't have all the answers...

We went and looked at engagement rings today. I found one that I really like. He told the lady at the jeweler's that his budget was $20-$30K. Let's just say I don't agree. I told him NO MORE THAN $5K. He doesn't listen to me. The ring I picked out is "under budget" at about $15K. I love it, but I hate that it cost so much. My question here: Should I push him to keep to a lower budget?

My parents don't necessarily approve, but neither do his. Jordan and I have questioned the thought of eloping instead of a full-fledged wedding. The way I look at it - Elopement (?) is still just as legal as a "normal" wedding (unlike what most people think) with less people (as in less the 20), no wedding party, and no reception. So why not?

Like I said, my parents don't approve and they make less than $20K annually combined. They're divorced, but still can't contribute as much as what they would if they were married or if they actually thought this was a good idea. How do I approach them with the idea? They got married at 18 and 25 and had me less than 6 months later.

Any CONSTRUCTIVE thoughts/comments/ideas would be appreciated.

bethsmiles · December 2014

1) Your last comment won't go over well here. It's the internet honey, you can't tell people how to respond.

2) Eloping is running off to get married with just the two of you and no one else. If you invite anyone it isn't eloping and you must properly host your guests, no matter how few you invite, at a reception.

3) What don't your parents approve of? The budget for the ring (If that's the case, why would you even discuss this with them?) or the marriage? If they disapprove of the marriage I suggest listening to their concerns and giving them serious consideration. To me, it's a red flag that both sets of parents believe this is a bad idea.

4) If your SO is paying for the ring on his own, then the budget really is his decision. However, the two of you need to learn how to make financial decisions together. If you can't do that when setting a budget for a ring, then that's another red flag. Can your SO afford a 15K ring or is he planning on going into debt for the ring, because I never think that is a good idea and if he is planning on going into debt that is something that will affect both of you. You need to have an adult conversation with him about this.

ETA: 5) As for approaching your parents, you are adults making an adult decision. When you get engaged tell them. If they voice concerns listen to them but ultimately the decision is up to you. I do suggest hearing our your's and his parents concern before getting engaged though.

mrsjpgreenawalt · December 2014

Eloping is NOT running off and getting married. There's legitimate ways to elope. It's not a "irresponsible" thing. People do it for a multitude of reasons: small budget, more intimacy (less guests), etc. Check out www.elopepa.com to see what I mean.

bethsmiles · December 2014

No need to be so defensive. I didn't say it was irresponsible or illegitimate, you absolutely can elope if you want. But if you have guests it is, by definition, not eloping. And I only point this out because you said you didn't need to have a reception but also mentioned inviting guests. If you invite guests, you need to have a reception to thank them for coming to your ceremony.

And I just need to point out that the website you linked to even refers to eloping as running away.

And yes, there are elopement packages that include guests but that is just some venues' way of offering small, intimate wedding packages.

There are many posts on TK that have actually eloped and will tell you that if you invite guests, you didn't elope. You had an intimate wedding.

mrsjpgreenawalt · December 2014

He was engaged before and spent $30K. He's still paying it off... His ex turned abusive when he found out she was cheating on him... (including smearing her own blood on his car, throwing pots & pans, slitting his wrists, etc. AKA psycho)

I think my dad just doesn't want me to make the same mistakes him and my mom did. They got married young, had kids young, etc. They're now divorced. There's a major difference I think between my mom's situation and mine. She was a smoker, a crack addict, alcoholic. I'm not destructive to my future. I'm graduating high school and already accepted to Penn State University.

His parents miss his ex. They were together for four years and she got really close to his mom. They refuse to acknowledge the abuse, even though they witnessed it.

bethsmiles · December 2014

You definitely need to talk with him about the budget. It's ridiculous that he is still paying off a past engagement ring and is considering going into debt for another one.

Also, I still would ASK your parents what their concerns are rather than making assumptions. You may be right in your assumptions but they could have other concerns as well.

Why do you want to get married before college? Is there a reason to not wait until you've finished your degree?

My BF and I met our first day of college and decided to wait to get engaged until we finished college and I have to say, I have no regrets from that decision. It has been great for our relationship and allowed us to change and grow together during that time without the additionally stresses of a marriage.

You will do a lot of changing in college, everyone does. You aren't even out of high school yet. You haven't lived in the real world. Give your self to become an adult before making a life-long commitment.

phira · December 2014

mrsjpgreenawalt said:

Hi! My name is Caroline. SO's name is Jordan. I'm 18 and he's 24. I know, seems a little weird. We have a unique bond. We've decided that we want to get married, although, we don't have all the answers...
We went and looked at engagement rings today. I found one that I really like. He told the lady at the jeweler's that his budget was $20-$30K. Let's just say I don't agree. I told him NO MORE THAN $5K. He doesn't listen to me. The ring I picked out is "under budget" at about $15K. I love it, but I hate that it cost so much. My question here: Should I push him to keep to a lower budget?
My parents don't necessarily approve, but neither do his. Jordan and I have questioned the thought of eloping instead of a full-fledged wedding. The way I look at it - Elopement (?) is still just as legal as a "normal" wedding (unlike what most people think) with less people (as in less the 20), no wedding party, and no reception. So why not?
Like I said, my parents don't approve and they make less than $20K annually combined. They're divorced, but still can't contribute as much as what they would if they were married or if they actually thought this was a good idea. How do I approach them with the idea? They got married at 18 and 25 and had me less than 6 months later.
Any CONSTRUCTIVE thoughts/comments/ideas would be appreciated.

phira · December 2014

mrsjpgreenawalt said:

Eloping is NOT running off and getting married. There's legitimate ways to elope. It's not a "irresponsible" thing. People do it for a multitude of reasons: small budget, more intimacy (less guests), etc. Check out www.elopepa.com to see what I mean.

phira · December 2014

mrsjpgreenawalt said:

He was engaged before and spent $30K. He's still paying it off... His ex turned abusive when he found out she was cheating on him... (including smearing her own blood on his car, throwing pots & pans, slitting his wrists, etc. AKA psycho)
I think my dad just doesn't want me to make the same mistakes him and my mom did. They got married young, had kids young, etc. They're now divorced. There's a major difference I think between my mom's situation and mine. She was a smoker, a crack addict, alcoholic. I'm not destructive to my future. I'm graduating high school and already accepted to Penn State University.
His parents miss his ex. They were together for four years and she got really close to his mom. They refuse to acknowledge the abuse, even though they witnessed it.

bethsmiles · December 2014

@Phira - You are wise, I totally should have quoted!

mrsjpgreenawalt · December 2014

...?

anyway, My dad won't talk to me about Jordan with regards to anything. I've tried and always get met with silence.

phira · December 2014

1) Eloping really does mean that you are getting married alone, without any guests, and it's typically (though not always) spontaneous. If you're having about 20 guests, then you're having a small wedding, and you need to properly host people. I get wanting a small wedding; that's what my brother and his fiancée are planning for their wedding. I also get wanting to elope because I wanted to elope.

2) If your significant other wants to spend thousands of dollars on an engagement ring and this makes you uncomfortable, and he's already paying off the money he spent on his last engagement, then it really sounds like he is not making the best financial decisions. While you can't control how much someone spends on an engagement ring that they're purchasing for you, that doesn't mean that it's a meaningless thing. In your case, I would be really hesitant to commit this fully to someone who needs to get their financial shit together. If this is how he is right now with his finances, then there's no reason to believe that this is going to change after the engagement ring is purchased.

3) If you're 18, and he's 24, and he was with his last significant other for 4 years, how long have you been together?

4) I say this to everyone who mentioned getting shit about being "too young" for marriage: if your relationship is the right one for you, then it's the right one for you, regardless of whether or not you're married. That's not to say that marriage isn't something that you should ever want, or that it's unimportant, or that there's some magical age when you have to be to get married after only X years. But it sounds like you're in quite the rush to get married, and given your age, the fact that college seems like some sort of deadline for you, your significant other's debt and financial outlook, and your parents' situation getting married and having children young, I'm really not sure why you're in such a hurry.

phira · December 2014

@bethsmiles No worries!

I think I could have quoted everything in one post, buuuuuut I'm pretty tired so whatever.

mrsjpgreenawalt · December 2014

It's pretty fair to say that I'm in a hurry. Why? I have no clue exactly.

I was in an abusive relationship and so was he. We understand each other very well. We have the same goals for our lives.

Well, and the fact that my grandmother isn't too keen on living together unless we're married... and I can not handle another single minute around my mentally-ill sister... I have to move out. My health (mentally and physically) deteriorated while I was living with my dad and sister. I have an anxiety disorder so screaming bloody murder at 3 am when no one is hurting you is not going to end well. I'm a couple years older than her (and certainly bigger), but she's had me in a fetal position crying and shaking out of fear. She's nuts.

bethsmiles · December 2014

Oh and I just wanted to add: BF's parents got married very young (18 & 20). They are still happily married 30+ years later. However, they don't recommend getting married young to anyone! In fact, their advice and their stories from their early years of marriage are part of why we decided to wait. So your parents outlook on their marriage/divorce may be playing into why they don't think you should get married but that doesn't make it any less valid. BF's parents who are still married might tell you the exact same things they would.

phira · December 2014

mrsjpgreenawalt said: It's pretty fair to say that I'm in a hurry. Why? I have no clue exactly.I was in an abusive relationship and so was he. We understand each other very well. We have the same goals for our lives. Well, and the fact that my grandmother isn't too keen on living together unless we're married... and I can not handle another single minute around my mentally-ill sister... I have to move out. My health (mentally and physically) deteriorated while I was living with my dad and sister. I have an anxiety disorder so screaming bloody murder at 3 am when no one is hurting you is not going to end well. I'm a couple years older than her (and certainly bigger), but she's had me in a fetal position crying and shaking out of fear. She's nuts. So, if you've (both) just gotten out of abusive relationships, I highly highly highly recommend spending significant time healing before getting married or making any sort of huge relationship commitment. It's very easy for an okay-but-not-great relationship to feel like a forever-and-totally-perfect relationship when you're just out of an abusive one.

It does sound like you need to GTFO of your current living situation. Marrying your significant other so you can live together according to the rules of one family member is not a good solution to getting out of a really bad home situation. It can be really tempting, and to be honest, it can feel like it's the only way to escape, and that's okay. But I know that there are people who can help you find somewhere else to live. And even if moving in with your SO was the best solution, marrying him is unnecessary. Yes, your grandmother would disapprove, but I think that she's not going to necessarily approve of you marrying this person right now either, maybe? And your father would certainly still be just as unhappy.

mrsjpgreenawalt · December 2014

Both of the abusive relationships ended earlier this year. His in January, mine in April.

phira · December 2014

mrsjpgreenawalt said:

Both of the abusive relationships ended earlier this year. His in January, mine in April.

That's really not a very long time, especially for you, and especially if you're only 18.

bethsmiles · December 2014

mrsjpgreenawalt said:

Both of the abusive relationships ended earlier this year. His in January, mine in April.

That's practically a blink of an eye.

The more you post, the more red flags I see. You're very young, not even out of high school, you just (yes, just - it hasn't even been a year!) got out of an abusive relationship, he doesn't have good financial decision making skills, and both your families are against this.

Go to college. Be independent. Learn who you are independent of being in a relationship.

Swazzle · December 2014

lunardaydreaming · December 2014

To echo what PPs have said, it sounds like there are many red flags in your situation. And by that I do not mean you're "wrong", shouldn't get married, don't love your boyfriend, or aren't justified in your feelings. I mean that you're not living in a health environment and you've both been through traumatic experiences. You said that your family won't really discuss your boyfriend with you. What will happen if you do elope and get married? Are you prepared to deal with the feelings of your parents and your boyfriend's parents? If your families aren't going to be accepting or approving of your marriage either way, why not move in together first?

You've also not been together for very long. You said your boyfriend had been engaged in the past, and is now still paying off the expense of that ring. You've already voiced your concerns about the budget, and picked out a ring you liked. Why does he want to push you to make another choice? Is this the same thing that happened in the past? Maybe you both need to get some support for yourselves, both having been in abusive relationships.

I give you kudos for getting out of your abusive relationships, and I hope the best for you both. But take some time to think about why you have to be married before you move in together. I know you said your grandmother wouldn't approve, but is that a good enough reason?

[Deleted User] · December 2014

mrsjpgreenawalt said:

It's pretty fair to say that I'm in a hurry. Why? I have no clue exactly.
I was in an abusive relationship and so was he. We understand each other very well. We have the same goals for our lives.
Well, and the fact that my grandmother isn't too keen on living together unless we're married... and I can not handle another single minute around my mentally-ill sister... I have to move out. My health (mentally and physically) deteriorated while I was living with my dad and sister. I have an anxiety disorder so screaming bloody murder at 3 am when no one is hurting you is not going to end well. I'm a couple years older than her (and certainly bigger), but she's had me in a fetal position crying and shaking out of fear. She's nuts.

none of these are reasons to get married. you would benefit far more from individual counseling and couples'/pre-marital counseling than you would getting married right now. I realize that is not the romantic fairy-tale you're looking for right now, but it's obvious you and your SO each have your own individual issues that need to be addressed before even thinking about marriage.

buddysmom80 · December 2014

Here's my CONSTRUCTIVE comment:

You are 18 years old, live your life before settling down, marrying someone is not an easy way out at all. You want to get married for the right reasons not for the "my sister is crazy, I need to GTFO". Get a job, pack your shit and spread your wings if you want.

At 18 I was not even thinking about getting married! I wasn't even thinking about it until I was 30. You know why? Because I was having FUN. I'm not saying marriage isn't fun, but single girl fun and married girl fun are two different things.

buddysmom80 · December 2014

Here's my CONSTRUCTIVE comment:

You are 18 years old, live your life before settling down, marrying someone is not an easy way out at all. You want to get married for the right reasons not for the "my sister is crazy, I need to GTFO". Get a job, pack your shit and spread your wings if you want.

At 18 I was not even thinking about getting married! I wasn't even thinking about it until I was 30. You know why? Because I was having FUN. I'm not saying marriage isn't fun, but single girl fun and married girl fun are two different things.

speakeasy14 · December 2014

I haven't read anything yet, but just want to state, you should change your screen name immediately. By sharing your boyfriend's first name, and having your screen name be his last name, it makes it extremely easy for people to find you.

That being said... now going to read everything...

Ok you are 18. At 18 I thought I wanted to be married to the guy I was dating too. Turns out I had a lot of growing up to do. Enjoy this time because you're going to look back and wish you hadn't rushed growing up.

Have you asked your parents why they do not approve? If they were your age when they were married, are now divorced, and living below the poverty line( $20k is poverty); then maybe they do not want you to make the same mistakes they made and are trying to protect you. Part of being an adult is to be able to communicate. So prove that you are an adult and can handle their reasoning for why they think you should not be getting married at 18. If you do not like their response, do not run off and get married. That will just cause more problems.

loves2shop4shoes · December 2014

Oh boy. Please bear in mind the following:

1. It's your life. I don't know you. I have no dog in this fight.
2. I am actually saying all of this with concern and CONSTRUCTIVE advice.

You are 18 years old, and you've been dating your BF for 8 months. That is NOT a long time. In my opinion, it is very hard to know someone well enough to marry him after 8 months. Especially at 18, when you're still learning who YOU are.

While a marriage to your BF may temporarily solve your living situation issues, that is 100% NOT a reason (or should even be AMONG the reasons) to get married. If your living situation is untenable, move out. Get a roommate or work two jobs. Do what you have to do, but get out. Jumping from under your parents roof to under your BF's roof isn't going to solve your problems.

Also, it's a HUGE red flag that your BF is so financially irresponsible. When you get married, your finances combine in the eyes of the law. So, you've got major credit card debt? So does he. He has 100k in student debt? So do you. Either of you defaults on a loan? The collections people will come after BOTH of you. You may not have realized that, but it's 100% the truth. Your BF was engaged before and is still paying that ring off? Why? Did he not sell the ring after the engagement ended? You DO know that legally, NO MATTER WHAT, unless they got married, that engagement ring is HIS, right?

Anyway, the fact that someone SO young would spend THAT kind of money (which he OBVIOUSLY didn't have) on an engagement ring indicates that he is NOT financially responsible. And the fact that he wants to spend THAT kind of money on a ring for you (which he cannot afford) while he's ALREADY in debt just tells me that this is not the kind of person you want to combine your finances with, unless you want to be bankrupt by 25.

I'm just telling you that there are all kinds of red flags in this relationship, and I would not get engaged to him. I think you need to get into counseling about your previous abusive relationship, untenable living situation, and your desire to get married to a guy you've known for 8 months. At 18.

I seriously hope you heed my advice. Good luck.

cu97tiger · December 2014

Just no. You're 18, you haven't graduated from high school, you've never lived on your own, and two of your reasons for wanting to get married are 1) to get out of the house you live in with your sister and 2) because your grandmother doesn't believe in living together before marriage. None of that sounds adult or mature. @loves2shop4shoes and other PPs have hit the nail on the head with the finances already.

You should go to college. Live on campus. Then live off campus. Learn to pay your own bills, make your own money, and make your own decisions. If, after you're comfortable with the idea of living by yourself, you still want to marry this guy, then do it.

Like @bethsmiles, my parents were married young (19 and 20) and are still together (42 years later), but if I had tried to do the same thing, they would have had serious reservations. Because at 18, you still think you'll be the same for the rest of your life. And you expect your relationship will stay the same, and you'd be wrong on both counts.

bride2b71614 · December 2014

Do they have dorms at Penn State?? If so, maybe you should move into one when you go on campus...I understand wanting to move in with a boyfriend, and get married super young...but the more you are posting, the more it seems like you are using a marriage as a convenient way to get out of your current living situation... rather than marrying someone for the right reasons. You have not been together long, and I would strongly suggest spending more time in a relationship with your bf before moving in with him. Please get your financial Ducks in a row as well, and please do not go further into debt by having him purchase a ring well beyond your means.

ETA: Grammar

thespeshulestsnowflake · December 2014

Do you have a job or plan to have one while in college? Does your BF have a job and is he out of college? Can you guys afford living expenses, let alone the basics for a wedding (marriage license, officiant)?

GoldenPenguin · December 2014

I can't.

Dignity100 · December 2014

Just reading this - there's been a lot of good advice, so I'm probably just re-typing it.

You're 18 - allow yourself to be young. Most people at 18 years old don't even have a complete understanding what career path they want to follow when they "grow up" because you change so much between 18-22 yrs old (and even past then). If you two are meant to be together, you'll still be together when you graduate college. After college - start your career and then a year after that see if the timing is right to get engaged. MOST of the girls on here will tell you - the person they would have married at 18 is way different than the person they would have married at 25.

Your BF already has a lot of debt from a previous engagement it sounds like. Let's just say he has has 10K of that left to pay and then he gets you a ring for the 30K... that's 40K worth of debt. What about car and other debt? Marriage is not always easy - throw financial debt on top of it as well as learning to live together and college stress.

You've told us why you're looking to rush into marriage - your home situation and your grandmother not believing in living together before marriage; but what's his reasoning? How long was he with his ex before they were engaged and then before they called it off. Those I know that have been in abusive relationships and then got out have been extremely conservative/slow in future relationships because of their past "baggage". For you two to be rushing into an engagement/marriage, something seems a little off.

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