Selfish much?

ou81also · December 2014

Without getting into a lot of detail regarding other potential Bridezilla-like behavior. My sister decided on not having children at her wedding. Wait. "No kids" is not the bridezilla part. Please read on...

She has two nephews (my kids), who will be almost 12 & 10 by the time she gets hitched. He has one niece and nephew, she guesses they are approx 5 & 7. That's it as far as family goes.

No kids at wedding. Got it. That's their prerogative and I could care less. But here's the kicker. She started stating that she wants the children to be there for the pictures at 3:00 (for a 5:00 ceremony). They can stay for the ceremony but then they must "disappear".

I don't think she's ever asked anyone if it was even possible to work it out logistically. I know she's only ever said to me "I want them there for pictures". She's never asked. As far as I know the grooms parents would be in charge of getting their grandchildren dressed and to pics b/c their dad is the best man; and the mother is not with their father (she will not be at the wedding). Of course her future in-laws are not going to make an issue of it to the bride or groom but I'm sure that's not top on the list of things they want to do that day either. Wait. I think this will all fall on the mother, as the grooms parents are not together either. This makes this more appalling! Poor woman can't even get her hair and make-up done if she's wrangling a 5 and 7 year old into dress clothes, I of all peopke know this!!!

Anyway, while arguing about how this isn't going to work for us she said "well my friends are excited to have a night out without their kids". Yes. They have toddlers, we all like to get away from toddlers. Her friends also not being asked to buy outfits and present their children to the photographer for 10 minutes, watch a 20 minute ceremony then get wisked away by a magical fairy. Side note: my kids also have school that day (she's getting married on a Friday) she could care less about that either it seems.

Besides the logistical nightmare this will cause, I think it's just plain rude to even demand this. Like rude to the 10th power. My father thinks that it's her day and I should give her what she wants (he also hates conflict). I love my Dad but I dont think I can pull this off without holding a grudge for a very, very long time. Thoughts?

jacques27 · December 2014

It seems unlikely that she'll see the error of her ways and magically see how rude and demanding she is being. I'm not a huge fan of kids in general, but I know darn well that children are people, not props, and deserve to be treated as such.

So, I personally would drop the discussions and just give her what she wants...a child-free wedding. Don't allow your children to be props or allow them to be involved at all. Have them go to school as planned and see if maybe you can arrange a sleep-over for them at a friends house to go home with after school. Then you show up to the wedding to support your sister and if she asks where the kids are, just say that logistically it didn't work out to bring them just for pictures, but they send their love and wish her a happy wedding day.

ETA: Oooh...or since she wants children to be seen but not heard - can you have life-size cardboard cut-outs of your children made to pose with you for the pictures instead?!? Cause that would be awesome - people who only want props will get what they want!

ou81also · December 2014

I am in love with you. That's a fabulous idea!!! He he he!!! Maybe she will be fooled into thinking the cut-outs are really them! LOL!

Yeah, I've lost all respect for her. On Christmas Eve she mentioned something about "having kids someday" and on Christmas Day she took my mothers seat at the table (she was last to the big table) I (half) joked "you're at the kids table, sis!" (She is the youngest and technically that's where she should have ended up anyway) she *actually* said "you chose to have kids, parents should sit with their children". I wanted to throw my wine in her face. Meanwhile her fiancée never came to the table. He was in the shower while everyone ate.

Oh boy. I can't wait until she gets hers!!!

ou81also · December 2014

PS we have already told her that its a logistical nightmare (hubby has said this too, his mom will be the one to pick up the kids from the bus that day and take them to her house). It's like she's still in denial and she's going to figure it all out for us. That's what I got from the argument anyway. Crazy, crazy, crazy.

jenajjthr · December 2014

jacques27 said:

ETA: Oooh...or since she wants children to be seen but not heard - can you have life-size cardboard cut-outs of your children made to pose with you for the pictures instead?!? Cause that would be awesome - people who only want props will get what they want!

This! I like this idea!

I went to a niece's wedding on a Friday, but did get to take my kids. Had to get the youngest from school early to make it on time though. Invite time was 15 minutes earlier than "real" time so guests wouldn't be late. So I feel the pain on having to rush to get kids out of school, dressed up, to a location for pics and a ceremony.

But then your added kicker, they don't get to stay for food and cake. You have to find a person to come get them, take them away, have a third set of clothes for them, and feed them. Yeah....this mom would be saying no. Either they stay for the entire event or they don't come at all. Other guests do typically understand that children that are family are exempt from the "no children" policy. Especially if there are only 4 of them.

ou81also · December 2014

jenajjthr said:

This! I like this idea!

I went to a niece's wedding on a Friday, but did get to take my kids. Had to get the youngest from school early to make it on time though. Invite time was 15 minutes earlier than "real" time so guests wouldn't be late. So I feel the pain on having to rush to get kids out of school, dressed up, to a location for pics and a ceremony.

But then your added kicker, they don't get to stay for food and cake. You have to find a person to come get them, take them away, have a third set of clothes for them, and feed them. Yeah....this mom would be saying no. Either they stay for the entire event or they don't come at all. Other guests do typically understand that children that are family are exempt from the "no children" policy. Especially if there are only 4 of them.
I know. Would you ask an adult to come to the ceremony but not the reception??? Ugh.

simcal18 · December 2014

ou81also said:

I am in love with you. That's a fabulous idea!!! He he he!!! Maybe she will be fooled into thinking the cut-outs are really them! LOL! Yeah, I've lost all respect for her. On Christmas Eve she mentioned something about "having kids someday" and on Christmas Day she took my mothers seat at the table (she was last to the big table) I (half) joked "you're at the kids table, sis!" (She is the youngest and technically that's where she should have ended up anyway) she *actually* said "you chose to have kids, parents should sit with their children". I wanted to throw my wine in her face. Meanwhile her fiancée never came to the table. He was in the shower while everyone ate. Oh boy. I can't wait until she gets hers!!!

Wait a second--just because she's the youngest sibling, you think she should sit with your children while you sit with the adults? I actually agree with her that if there aren't enough seats for all of the adults at the "big" table, then it should be parents sitting with their kids, not whoever happens to be the youngest of a group of grown ass adults. That's pretty damn demeaning of you. And did someone tell her fiance when dinner would be, or did you all just choose to eat without him while he was in the shower?

lovegood90 · December 2014

bostonbride2015 said:

ou81also said:

I am in love with you. That's a fabulous idea!!! He he he!!! Maybe she will be fooled into thinking the cut-outs are really them! LOL! Yeah, I've lost all respect for her. On Christmas Eve she mentioned something about "having kids someday" and on Christmas Day she took my mothers seat at the table (she was last to the big table) I (half) joked "you're at the kids table, sis!" (She is the youngest and technically that's where she should have ended up anyway) she *actually* said "you chose to have kids, parents should sit with their children". I wanted to throw my wine in her face. Meanwhile her fiancée never came to the table. He was in the shower while everyone ate. Oh boy. I can't wait until she gets hers!!!

Wait a second--just because she's the youngest sibling, you think she should sit with your children while you sit with the adults? I actually agree with her that if there aren't enough seats for all of the adults at the "big" table, then it should be parents sitting with their kids, not whoever happens to be the youngest of a group of grown ass adults. That's pretty damn demeaning of you. And did someone tell her fiance when dinner would be, or did you all just choose to eat without him while he was in the shower?

Yeah, if someone told me to sit at the kids table I'd probably throw wine in THEIR face. How condescending.

short+sassy · December 2014

Admittedly, I'm pretty thick-skinned. This would have gone no further than the first mention. I would have responded with, "I'm sorry, Sis, that is a logistical nightmare I cannot do. I can either bring my children to all of it or none of it. I'm happy to do either. What is your preference?" She could proceed to fling and flail as much as she wanted...one cannot do what one cannot do (or reasonably chooses not to do). Rinse and repeat with, "I'm not doing that. Let me know your preference when you decide."

thespeshulestsnowflake · December 2014

lovegood90 said:

bostonbride2015 said:

ou81also said:

I am in love with you. That's a fabulous idea!!! He he he!!! Maybe she will be fooled into thinking the cut-outs are really them! LOL! Yeah, I've lost all respect for her. On Christmas Eve she mentioned something about "having kids someday" and on Christmas Day she took my mothers seat at the table (she was last to the big table) I (half) joked "you're at the kids table, sis!" (She is the youngest and technically that's where she should have ended up anyway) she *actually* said "you chose to have kids, parents should sit with their children". I wanted to throw my wine in her face. Meanwhile her fiancée never came to the table. He was in the shower while everyone ate. Oh boy. I can't wait until she gets hers!!!

Wait a second--just because she's the youngest sibling, you think she should sit with your children while you sit with the adults? I actually agree with her that if there aren't enough seats for all of the adults at the "big" table, then it should be parents sitting with their kids, not whoever happens to be the youngest of a group of grown ass adults. That's pretty damn demeaning of you. And did someone tell her fiance when dinner would be, or did you all just choose to eat without him while he was in the shower?

Yeah, if someone told me to sit at the kids table I'd probably throw wine in THEIR face. How condescending.

Some of it depends on family though. I was put at the 'kids' table at Thanksgiving, but then again so were my two uncles, who are both older than my mother. Actually there was only one 'kid' at the table, by age at least (she was 15, the rest were 18 and up) Then at Christmas I was put at the 'adult' table and complained about it.

But in this case it sounds more like an insult to her age.

lovegood90 · December 2014

thespeshulestsnowflake said:

lovegood90 said:

bostonbride2015 said:

ou81also said:

I am in love with you. That's a fabulous idea!!! He he he!!! Maybe she will be fooled into thinking the cut-outs are really them! LOL! Yeah, I've lost all respect for her. On Christmas Eve she mentioned something about "having kids someday" and on Christmas Day she took my mothers seat at the table (she was last to the big table) I (half) joked "you're at the kids table, sis!" (She is the youngest and technically that's where she should have ended up anyway) she *actually* said "you chose to have kids, parents should sit with their children". I wanted to throw my wine in her face. Meanwhile her fiancée never came to the table. He was in the shower while everyone ate. Oh boy. I can't wait until she gets hers!!!

Wait a second--just because she's the youngest sibling, you think she should sit with your children while you sit with the adults? I actually agree with her that if there aren't enough seats for all of the adults at the "big" table, then it should be parents sitting with their kids, not whoever happens to be the youngest of a group of grown ass adults. That's pretty damn demeaning of you. And did someone tell her fiance when dinner would be, or did you all just choose to eat without him while he was in the shower?

Yeah, if someone told me to sit at the kids table I'd probably throw wine in THEIR face. How condescending.

Some of it depends on family though. I was put at the 'kids' table at Thanksgiving, but then again so were my two uncles, who are both older than my mother. Actually there was only one 'kid' at the table, by age at least (she was 15, the rest were 18 and up) Then at Christmas I was put at the 'adult' table and complained about it.

But in this case it sounds more like an insult to her age.

People 18 and up do not belong at a kids' table. That's so ridiculous.

thespeshulestsnowflake · December 2014

lovegood90 said:

thespeshulestsnowflake said:

lovegood90 said:

bostonbride2015 said:

ou81also said:

I am in love with you. That's a fabulous idea!!! He he he!!! Maybe she will be fooled into thinking the cut-outs are really them! LOL! Yeah, I've lost all respect for her. On Christmas Eve she mentioned something about "having kids someday" and on Christmas Day she took my mothers seat at the table (she was last to the big table) I (half) joked "you're at the kids table, sis!" (She is the youngest and technically that's where she should have ended up anyway) she *actually* said "you chose to have kids, parents should sit with their children". I wanted to throw my wine in her face. Meanwhile her fiancée never came to the table. He was in the shower while everyone ate. Oh boy. I can't wait until she gets hers!!!

Wait a second--just because she's the youngest sibling, you think she should sit with your children while you sit with the adults? I actually agree with her that if there aren't enough seats for all of the adults at the "big" table, then it should be parents sitting with their kids, not whoever happens to be the youngest of a group of grown ass adults. That's pretty damn demeaning of you. And did someone tell her fiance when dinner would be, or did you all just choose to eat without him while he was in the shower?

Yeah, if someone told me to sit at the kids table I'd probably throw wine in THEIR face. How condescending.

Some of it depends on family though. I was put at the 'kids' table at Thanksgiving, but then again so were my two uncles, who are both older than my mother. Actually there was only one 'kid' at the table, by age at least (she was 15, the rest were 18 and up) Then at Christmas I was put at the 'adult' table and complained about it.

But in this case it sounds more like an insult to her age.

People 18 and up do not belong at a kids' table. That's so ridiculous.

In my example's case, it's hardly a kids' table. We more joke around with the term, since there are multiple tables when the entire family is together. But I can see in cases where it is a more literal kids' table, it would be ridiculous.

simcal18 · December 2014

thespeshulestsnowflake said:

lovegood90 said:

thespeshulestsnowflake said:

lovegood90 said:

bostonbride2015 said:

ou81also said:

I am in love with you. That's a fabulous idea!!! He he he!!! Maybe she will be fooled into thinking the cut-outs are really them! LOL! Yeah, I've lost all respect for her. On Christmas Eve she mentioned something about "having kids someday" and on Christmas Day she took my mothers seat at the table (she was last to the big table) I (half) joked "you're at the kids table, sis!" (She is the youngest and technically that's where she should have ended up anyway) she *actually* said "you chose to have kids, parents should sit with their children". I wanted to throw my wine in her face. Meanwhile her fiancée never came to the table. He was in the shower while everyone ate. Oh boy. I can't wait until she gets hers!!!

Wait a second--just because she's the youngest sibling, you think she should sit with your children while you sit with the adults? I actually agree with her that if there aren't enough seats for all of the adults at the "big" table, then it should be parents sitting with their kids, not whoever happens to be the youngest of a group of grown ass adults. That's pretty damn demeaning of you. And did someone tell her fiance when dinner would be, or did you all just choose to eat without him while he was in the shower?

Yeah, if someone told me to sit at the kids table I'd probably throw wine in THEIR face. How condescending.

Some of it depends on family though. I was put at the 'kids' table at Thanksgiving, but then again so were my two uncles, who are both older than my mother. Actually there was only one 'kid' at the table, by age at least (she was 15, the rest were 18 and up) Then at Christmas I was put at the 'adult' table and complained about it.

But in this case it sounds more like an insult to her age.

People 18 and up do not belong at a kids' table. That's so ridiculous.

In my example's case, it's hardly a kids' table. We more joke around with the term, since there are multiple tables when the entire family is together. But I can see in cases where it is a more literal kids' table, it would be ridiculous.

She's being told to sit with her 9 and 11 year old nephews, so in this case the term "kids' table" appears to be pretty darn literal. I'm still trying to figure out in what world OP thinks that is appropriate. If this is how she treats her sister, it's no wonder her sister wanted a kid-free wedding.

abbyj700 · December 2014

I agree with PP's - just tell your sister the kids have school and a sleep over and leave it at that. Then come the day of the wedding if she asks - repeat they are at school and a sleepover. It's rude of her to invite any guest to just pictures and the ceremony - same goes for kids. So just stand your ground.

The only child we had at our wedding is my step daughter. No other children were welcome - including DH's nephews. Actually - they were half of the reason we opted not to have kids at the wedding. The number of children, their age and how they are related does not have to have baring on them being invited.

And quit trying to send your sister to the kids table because she's younger than you. It sounds rather rude. Our kids table consists of anyone from 88 to 2. Break up the tradition of banishing kids to a room - mingle with people of all ages so that this is no longer an issue!

larrygaga · January 2015

You guys are both wrong in your actions and words.

Sorry beeth, I forget.

beethery · January 2015

@larrygaga good job boo

MegEn1 · January 2015

The kids situation terrifies me. We ended up inviting in circles - only children invited are family because the children ARE family.

I just can't even imagine what would occur to someone to say 'be there for pictures only' to family or anyone else. I just ... I can't.

velvethelicopters · January 2015

DF's family does the kids table strictly by age. Mostly because the folding chairs aren't so easy to get up from for Grandma so they decried the division by age. Granted, it's like 4 tables by now and the 3 kids tables wind up with various mixing and mingling.

simplylaurel · January 2015

If the bride didn't kids in attendance, why would she want to have pictures with them? People are either invited or they aren't, you can't just tell them to show up for pictures so it will look like you did the noble thing by inviting them.

MandyMost · January 2015

bostonbride2015 said:

thespeshulestsnowflake said:

lovegood90 said:

thespeshulestsnowflake said:

lovegood90 said:

bostonbride2015 said:

ou81also said:

I am in love with you. That's a fabulous idea!!! He he he!!! Maybe she will be fooled into thinking the cut-outs are really them! LOL! Yeah, I've lost all respect for her. On Christmas Eve she mentioned something about "having kids someday" and on Christmas Day she took my mothers seat at the table (she was last to the big table) I (half) joked "you're at the kids table, sis!" (She is the youngest and technically that's where she should have ended up anyway) she *actually* said "you chose to have kids, parents should sit with their children". I wanted to throw my wine in her face. Meanwhile her fiancée never came to the table. He was in the shower while everyone ate. Oh boy. I can't wait until she gets hers!!!

Wait a second--just because she's the youngest sibling, you think she should sit with your children while you sit with the adults? I actually agree with her that if there aren't enough seats for all of the adults at the "big" table, then it should be parents sitting with their kids, not whoever happens to be the youngest of a group of grown ass adults. That's pretty damn demeaning of you. And did someone tell her fiance when dinner would be, or did you all just choose to eat without him while he was in the shower?

Yeah, if someone told me to sit at the kids table I'd probably throw wine in THEIR face. How condescending.

Some of it depends on family though. I was put at the 'kids' table at Thanksgiving, but then again so were my two uncles, who are both older than my mother. Actually there was only one 'kid' at the table, by age at least (she was 15, the rest were 18 and up) Then at Christmas I was put at the 'adult' table and complained about it.

But in this case it sounds more like an insult to her age.

People 18 and up do not belong at a kids' table. That's so ridiculous.

In my example's case, it's hardly a kids' table. We more joke around with the term, since there are multiple tables when the entire family is together. But I can see in cases where it is a more literal kids' table, it would be ridiculous.

She's being told to sit with her 9 and 11 year old nephews, so in this case the term "kids' table" appears to be pretty darn literal. I'm still trying to figure out in what world OP thinks that is appropriate. If this is how she treats her sister, it's no wonder her sister wanted a kid-free wedding.

A "kids table" is a separate table for kids. If there's a separate table with people of all ages sitting at it, then it's not a "kids table". It's just a separate table. You can jokingly use any terms you want with your friends and family, but don't use the term incorrectly when you're actually having a conversation about what is and is not appropriate.

Cookie Pusher · January 2015

I sat at the kids' table until... well, I still often end up at the kids' table because that's just where the overflow goes, and it's usually done by age. And even though most of us that sit there are old enough to have our own kids, it is still called the kids' table. Just sayin'...

alexandducky412 · January 2015

I'm 21 and still end up at the kids table if there's any overflow by virtue of usually being the youngest adult present. Or the smallest mistaken for the youngest who won't put up a fight. For some families, it's just a term for the overflow table that the youngest usually end up at so the oldest can discuss things regarding important decisions. Hell, I've bumped someone from the "adult" table because I was more knowledgeable on a subject than they were.

The larger issue here is the blatant disrespect for your children on behalf of your sister. No kids means no kids, full stop. It doesn't mean "kids show up when convenient and disappear with a wand wave because I don't want them mucking up my fun adult stuff." Either allow or disallow them, they're not props to be used for photo ops. Anything else is just blatant assholery.

larrygaga · January 2015

I am still so glad my family doesn't do a kids table. Teenagers and young adults never have to feel like pieces of absolute shit on a holiday!!! We just have tables and kids sit with their parents so the parents can help them eat or older kids sit with their cousins and siblings.

It doesn't make any sense. Is your meal going to be more "adult" if the kid is 10 feet away? No, it's going to be the same, except you will have to stand up more to get to them.

I also don't understand adults only weddings, though. Children are part of the family. They are little humans. They should not be viewed as burdens or annoyances. Kids always have a blast at weddings if there are other kids and dancing and cake!

Although my family disciplines their children and raises them not to be little assholes, which is not a thing that happens in every family. I do understand if you have those little hellions that everyone is afraid to spank.

Cookie Pusher · January 2015

larrygaga said:

I am still so glad my family doesn't do a kids table. Teenagers and young adults never have to feel like pieces of absolute shit on a holiday!!! We just have tables and kids sit with their parents so the parents can help them eat or older kids sit with their cousins and siblings.

It doesn't make any sense. Is your meal going to be more "adult" if the kid is 10 feet away? No, it's going to be the same, except you will have to stand up more to get to them.

I also don't understand adults only weddings, though. Children are part of the family. They are little humans. They should not be viewed as burdens or annoyances. Kids always have a blast at weddings if there are other kids and dancing and cake!

Although my family disciplines their children and raises them not to be little assholes, which is not a thing that happens in every family. I do understand if you have those little hellions that everyone is afraid to spank.

The kids' table in our family refers to the folding table instead of the formal dining table. It's literally right next to the formal dining table, but it lower and set with plastic tablecloths and folding chairs. The kids' table is usually the more fun table since there's no Great Aunt Gertrude to tell me I've put too much food on my plate and I should eat like a lady (because ladies are supposed to starve themselves, obviously).

As for not inviting children to weddings? We didn't. No regrets. We only invited the children who were in the wedding. Our friends all have at least 2 children. Inviting them all would have more than doubled our guest list, and there was no way we could afford that unless we pushed the wedding off another 2.5 years. We love our friends' kids, we just did not want them at our wedding.

flantastic · January 2015

Cookie Pusher said:

larrygaga said:

I am still so glad my family doesn't do a kids table. Teenagers and young adults never have to feel like pieces of absolute shit on a holiday!!! We just have tables and kids sit with their parents so the parents can help them eat or older kids sit with their cousins and siblings.

It doesn't make any sense. Is your meal going to be more "adult" if the kid is 10 feet away? No, it's going to be the same, except you will have to stand up more to get to them.

I also don't understand adults only weddings, though. Children are part of the family. They are little humans. They should not be viewed as burdens or annoyances. Kids always have a blast at weddings if there are other kids and dancing and cake!

Although my family disciplines their children and raises them not to be little assholes, which is not a thing that happens in every family. I do understand if you have those little hellions that everyone is afraid to spank.

The kids' table in our family refers to the folding table instead of the formal dining table. It's literally right next to the formal dining table, but it lower and set with plastic tablecloths and folding chairs. The kids' table is usually the more fun table since there's no Great Aunt Gertrude to tell me I've put too much food on my plate and I should eat like a lady (because ladies are supposed to starve themselves, obviously).

As for not inviting children to weddings? We didn't. No regrets. We only invited the children who were in the wedding. Our friends all have at least 2 children. Inviting them all would have more than doubled our guest list, and there was no way we could afford that unless we pushed the wedding off another 2.5 years. We love our friends' kids, we just did not want them at our wedding.

H and I love our cousins, and we did want them at our wedding. However, many of them are preteens-young teens who like us, but didn't really care that much about a wedding per se. And adding that circle would have added 50 people to the guest list. So, cousins, we'll play board games at Christmas like we usually do.

MandyMost · January 2015

larrygaga said:

I am still so glad my family doesn't do a kids table. Teenagers and young adults never have to feel like pieces of absolute shit on a holiday!!! We just have tables and kids sit with their parents so the parents can help them eat or older kids sit with their cousins and siblings.

It doesn't make any sense. Is your meal going to be more "adult" if the kid is 10 feet away? No, it's going to be the same, except you will have to stand up more to get to them.

I also don't understand adults only weddings, though. Children are part of the family. They are little humans. They should not be viewed as burdens or annoyances. Kids always have a blast at weddings if there are other kids and dancing and cake!

Although my family disciplines their children and raises them not to be little assholes, which is not a thing that happens in every family. I do understand if you have those little hellions that everyone is afraid to spank.

To the bolded: kids being part of the family and being little humans has nothing to do with why they are not invited to some weddings. Do you acknowledge at all that there are some situations and events that are not kid-friendly? Perhaps opening night at a Saturday night opera? Or a bar? Or a dance club? Or a 7 course meal in a fancy restaurant? Or the reference section of a college library? Or do you disagree and believe that kids should be welcomed, encouraged, and invited openly to all of those things?

I love my niece and nephews, but that doesn't mean I want to hang out with them at the bar on a Friday night, or while I'm doing research in the library, or when I'm at a romantic dinner with my husband, or a big friends dinner with my college friends. And I didn't want them at my wedding. My very formal, Saturday night wedding. Because the party we were throwing was simply not a kid-friendly party. It had nothing to do with not considering them family.

Selfish much?

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