Homeowners - Who's got lawn knowledge?

labro · February 2015

Maybe I'm just looking for reassurance and other people's experiences. We're getting our backyard resodded and I'm looking at three different contractors, but I think I know who my top two are without knowing what the third contractor's official quote is. I felt more comfortable with my top two and really felt like they were very knowledgeable and forthright with us. However, I feel like there are some big gaps between the two and I'm hoping maybe anyone else with experience can chime in here.

Contractor 1:

He says we need 7-8 pallets of sod. His price for the backyard (about 3900 sq. ft.) is $4900 (for zeon zoysia) for the installation, materials, all that fun stuff. He did the quote while I wasn't home so I wasn't able to talk with him about adding additional top soil (our backyard has lots of clay because this is Georgia ugghhh) or doing any grading work so I think the price could go up if we add that in.

Contractor 2:

He says we need more like 11 pallets of sod. He rolled out the measurements while we were there and gave us the numbers so I don't know why we're ending up with a discrepancy unless the first contractor didn't take accurate measurements of the yard. He also recommended adding additional dirt per pallet of sod to mix in with our current soil, and added in the grading work we'd like. His sod installation/materials price is nearly the same as the first contractor, but the extra grading and dirt is an additional $1000 so now we're looking at $6000 instead of $5000 (plus he offered to throw in some fertilization, aeration and overseeding for our front lawn area which is currently fescue grass).

I really was looking to stick around the $4800 mark. This is a huge investment already. We could probably save $1000 on both quotes by going with bermuda grass instead of zoysia. H prefers zoysia because of it's carpet-like feel. Bermuda is nice, fast-growing and spreads quickly but doesn't have the same lushness. So, I guess my questions are - is the extra soil really all that necessary? We know grass can grow and do well in our yard with the proper applications of fertilizers and stuff to help with ph balance and soil nutrition, but adding in some fresh soil would probably help kickstart the new grass. We need to make a decision and get this on the books soon because we'll want them to do the install in late March/early April which is also one of the busiest times of year around here for sod installation projects. Both companies are highly and consistently rated on all the reviews sites I've seen plus they offered us references from past customers. This isn't something we can just wait on either unfortunately. We have to have something planned for spring or else prepare for another year of no yard. We just had our septic drainage field replaced and half of our backyard is mud because of it. I guess I'm just nervous about making the right decision, also about spending all the $$$.

flyingfoxes · February 2015

My only opinion is that I had Bermuda at my old house and HATED it - it wouldn't quit growing it's damn feelers into my flowers beds, etc. It was a huge nuisance.

labro · February 2015

@mobride2015 Yeah, that's one of the only downsides of bermuda. It CAN be invasive and you have to be consistent about keeping it out of flower beds or else it will try to take over. At this point, anything seems better than the status quo. Before we had the septic replace our backyard was entirely fescue and it was extremely spotty...our yard was in need of an overhaul already.

AprilH81 · February 2015

I have no experience, but that does sound like a lot of money.

Without being there and asking questions myself I would lean more towards Contractor #2. He/she took actual measurements and make recommendations on things that would help your lawn (adding the soil, the grading, etc.). It could be an upsell, but if you were already thinking about these things I would doubt it would be an unnecessary expense.

photokitty · February 2015

I'm guessing planted grass seed isn't something you're interested in? It is cheaper and not that difficult.

What happens is the sod doesn't take? Are there any guarantees?

southernbelle0915 · February 2015

That's tough... I have little experience with sod. We just did some patch work in one area. I'm sorry I can't provide more insight.

We ripped apart our backyard to fix some drainage issues about 2 years ago. When the work was done, our yard looked like shit and had no grass. We decided to just grow grass with seed. We spread the seed early spring, used peat moss and watered it a lot. The grass grew pretty quickly. It was A LOT cheaper than sodding and we were able to do it ourselves. If you don't require instant gratification, maybe that'd be a better option?

labro · February 2015

@photokitty Just from personal experience, I'm done with grass seed. To have any amount of success with seed we'd have to stick with fescue (bermuda has a 7% germination rate compared to like 70% for fescue) and we've already tried growing several patches of fescue. It starts up, but we can never get it to fill in nicely, we still have problems with patches. Fescue is also more of a cool weather grass than bermuda and zoysia are. It tends to get burned out in our Georgia summers. We had a lot of trees cut down last year and our backyard is super sunny now so the fescue was already starting to suffer. There are some guarantees if the sod fails but I don't know the details.

emmaaa · February 2015

DH works in turf grass management and swears sod is easier but seed is perfectly doable but just takes longer and more care at first. I personally think close to $6,000 is ridiculous and would rather just do seed.

FTR, DH says zoysia will be the best for us (in NC) and is what we will use.

photokitty · February 2015

IMHO, if I'm dropping $4900 on grass, I'd spend the extra $1100 to make sure it was done correctly and I'd get the type of grass I wanted. Over the course of living there is saving the money on bermuda grass going to reply be worth it, or will you wish you had splurged to have nice soft grass?

But then again, I'd probably give the seed another go bc I'm cheap.

labro · February 2015

southernbelle0915 said:

That's tough... I have little experience with sod. We just did some patch work in one area. I'm sorry I can't provide more insight.

We ripped apart our backyard to fix some drainage issues about 2 years ago. When the work was done, our yard looked like shit and had no grass. We decided to just grow grass with seed. We spread the seed early spring, used peat moss and watered it a lot. The grass grew pretty quickly. It was A LOT cheaper than sodding and we were able to do it ourselves. If you don't require instant gratification, maybe that'd be a better option?

That right there may hit the nail on the head for me. Plus like I said earlier, so sick of trying seed just to have it fail or not come in the way we'd like.

@emmaaa I just wish I had some friends in the business that I could talk to. All the quotes are consistent for the materials plus labor. I just want to make sure the investment in the zoysia is worth it. My parents' neighborhood is almost entirely bermuda grass but one of their neighbors has zoysia and the stuff is pretty amazing. You can see and feel the difference. On the other hand, there's a $1000 difference if we were to get the shade bermuda instead of zoysia. I guess I'm just looking for some cost justification. We could probably come up with the extra $1200 (since our budget was $4800) in the next two months I'm just hating the thought of it.

emmaaa · February 2015

LaBro said:

southernbelle0915 said:

That's tough... I have little experience with sod. We just did some patch work in one area. I'm sorry I can't provide more insight.

We ripped apart our backyard to fix some drainage issues about 2 years ago. When the work was done, our yard looked like shit and had no grass. We decided to just grow grass with seed. We spread the seed early spring, used peat moss and watered it a lot. The grass grew pretty quickly. It was A LOT cheaper than sodding and we were able to do it ourselves. If you don't require instant gratification, maybe that'd be a better option?

That right there may hit the nail on the head for me. Plus like I said earlier, so sick of trying seed just to have it fail or not come in the way we'd like.
@emmaaa I just wish I had some friends in the business that I could talk to. All the quotes are consistent for the materials plus labor. I just want to make sure the investment in the zoysia is worth it. My parents' neighborhood is almost entirely bermuda grass but one of their neighbors has zoysia and the stuff is pretty amazing. You can see and feel the difference. On the other hand, there's a $1000 difference if we were to get the shade bermuda instead of zoysia. I guess I'm just looking for some cost justification. We could probably come up with the extra $1200 (since our budget was $4800) in the next two months I'm just hating the thought of it.

I think the cost is consistent (that's about how much DH said his parents' yard would be if he did it for them, minus the labor). Like you said, you have to decide if the cost difference is worth it to you. To me, like @photokitty said, if your budget is already $5,000, then I would go the extra $1,000 for the better grass.

jenna8984 · February 2015

I don't really know anything about sod but I'm with some others here thinking "holy fuck that's expensive, I'd just plant seeds". I mean, is the sod immune to getting burnt in the summer or eaten by bugs or possibly ruined if you get a freak snow storm? It just seems like SO much money for something that seems so fragile and impermanent.

abbyj700 · February 2015

My only warning - we have zoysia. That shit is like mowing a brillow pad! It is SO thick. If you gives you quite a workout when you don't have a self propelled push mower!

labro · February 2015

@jenna8984 The type of sod we'd have installed WOULD hold up better in the summer than what we have now. Zoysia and bermuda are more warm weather grasses, and fescue just isn't. As far as a freak snow storm? Unlikely for us in April...we're lucky to get snow at all at any point in the year. So there is that at least. It IS expensive, which is why I feel like I'm gritting my teeth so much. But planting grass has been such a failure for us.

@emmaaa That's good to know that the cost seems consistent. I guess H and I need to sit down and talk about it tonight. This will be harder for him than it is for me. He's a major penny pincher, but at least he also recognizes that our yard is in the tank and needs professional help.

WhatawagSBNy · February 2015

southernbelle0915 said:
That's tough... I have little experience with sod. We just did some patch work in one area. I'm sorry I can't provide more insight.

We ripped apart our backyard to fix some drainage issues about 2 years ago. When the work was done, our yard looked like shit and had no grass. We decided to just grow grass with seed. We spread the seed early spring, used peat moss and watered it a lot. The grass grew pretty quickly. It was A LOT cheaper than sodding and we were able to do it ourselves. If you don't require instant gratification, maybe that'd be a better option?

********************
We had great success with seeding , after adding loads of quality topsoil, a section a little more than an acre that has been great the past three years.The initial 5 weeks until thoroughly grown in seemed long, but people park on the grass edges, lots of kids and dogs, and our kids and neighbors on bicycles, not a bad spot.

Georgia, I don't know. But you are talking more than 5 times what we spent on a full acre soil and seed. N NH

JennyColada · February 2015

LaBro said:

@jenna8984 The type of sod we'd have installed WOULD hold up better in the summer than what we have now. Zoysia and bermuda are more warm weather grasses, and fescue just isn't. As far as a freak snow storm? Unlikely for us in April...we're lucky to get snow at all at any point in the year. So there is that at least.

Considering that you'll likely have this grass (hopefully) longer than just this year though...will it last through next winter, or the winter after that? I mean, do you really want to spend $6000 to have it last 10 months?

Inkdancer · February 2015

JennyColada said:

LaBro said:

@jenna8984 The type of sod we'd have installed WOULD hold up better in the summer than what we have now. Zoysia and bermuda are more warm weather grasses, and fescue just isn't. As far as a freak snow storm? Unlikely for us in April...we're lucky to get snow at all at any point in the year. So there is that at least.
Considering that you'll likely have this grass (hopefully) longer than just this year though...will it last through next winter, or the winter after that? I mean, do you really want to spend $6000 to have it last 10 months?

It is a warm weather grass, but snow in the winter won't kill it. It just can't handle snow while its roots are settling in.

I think it's probably worth it. We re-seeded our lawn and it did not work out so great. I think we're going to have to do it again in spring and I am so not excited.

kvruns · February 2015

Can you get contractor #1 to update his quote to include exact measurements and the additional items you want and compare that way? I'd almost go with quote 3 too to see how it fits in the mix.

Other items to consider:

How long are you planning to stay in this house? Will this help resale or really is it just for you?

How much time do you spend walking in the grass, especially barefoot or whatever (ie is the additional upcharge for that style worth it or is it just pretty to look at)

What's wrong with our current grass?

labro · February 2015

@kvruns‌ Those are all really helpful points. I am thinking about going back to contractor 1 to get an updated estimate for a better comparison. We also received contractor #3's quote last night and he was right on par with contractor 2 (our top runner I suppose). I may have all of them send me some photos of previous work and maybe even tell them the details of the other bids to see if they'll toss in anything else (contractor 2 for example is already offering a discount to reseed, fertilize, and aerate our front lawn which is half fescue if we hire him). At this point, we're definitely in this house for another 3 to 5 years and maybe longer since we'll probably have to replace the siding in another two years. We have a dog so we do spend a lot of time outside playing with her, and we have cookouts with friends pretty frequently once it starts getting warm. Our current grass is nonexistant in the backyard, but before we had the yard torn up for the septic tank it was patchy and we needed to have regrading work done anyway.

AprilH81 · February 2015

If this is NOT your forever home I would not pay the premium to get upgraded grass, no matter how nice it would be. It is highly unlikely that future buyers would care (or even notice) the type of grass as long as it was well maintained.

jenna8984 · February 2015

AprilH81 said:

If this is NOT your forever home I would not pay the premium to get upgraded grass, no matter how nice it would be. It is highly unlikely that future buyers would care (or even notice) the type of grass as long as it was well maintained.

I agree. It scared me when you said 3-5 years in this house. I just spent that much money doing my entire kitchen and bathroom......nevermind the lawn. I can't imagine it would add any resale value. Plus I just think if you have a lot of BBQs and dog running around that it's likely to get trampled and ruined.

emmaaa · February 2015

AprilH81 said:

If this is NOT your forever home I would not pay the premium to get upgraded grass, no matter how nice it would be. It is highly unlikely that future buyers would care (or even notice) the type of grass as long as it was well maintained.

That is a very good point. I did not think to ask if you were planning to stay at this house. I wouldn't waste my money if I was planning ot move.

labro · February 2015

jenna8984 said:

AprilH81 said:

If this is NOT your forever home I would not pay the premium to get upgraded grass, no matter how nice it would be. It is highly unlikely that future buyers would care (or even notice) the type of grass as long as it was well maintained.

I agree. It scared me when you said 3-5 years in this house. I just spent that much money doing my entire kitchen and bathroom......nevermind the lawn. I can't imagine it would add any resale value. Plus I just think if you have a lot of BBQs and dog running around that it's likely to get trampled and ruined.

This grass (both varieties, but the zoysia/more expensive grass is tougher) is ideal for high-traffic areas so I'm actually less concerned about this possibility. I don't know how anyone got to thinking this grass was so fragile it would keel over at the first snowfall or from being walked on. The stuff we had before was definitely in the higher maintenance category. The new sod is more ideally suited to our region.

That's a good point about this being our forever home though. We already know we're going to have to invest multiple other thousands over the next few years to replace our HVAC, and our siding to start (our house is over 25 years old), so we've even started to consider the possibility of not selling the home if/when we grow out of it and just renting it and maintaining it as an investment property, or even just staying in it if we're able to bring it up to a level that we want. I think H is still just on the fence about bermuda vs. zoysia. I know he prefers the zoysia significantly more than bermuda and that's making the decision much harder for him.

AprilH81 · February 2015

Yeah, the more information I get the more I don't think it is worth it to pay an extra $1,000 for "better" grass.

You have other large expenses coming up with the house and the fact that you don't think you will be in the house more than 3-5 years tells me it isn't worth the extra money. Save that for the siding or other project and go with the bermuda grass.

WhatawagSBNy · February 2015

The zoysia grass we seeded was also a great one for not easily being damaged by pets, and not needing either weed or pest control, which means sod or seed, a variety worth paying a little extra for with a pet.

labro · February 2015

AprilH81 said:

Yeah, the more information I get the more I don't think it is worth it to pay an extra $1,000 for "better" grass.

You have other large expenses coming up with the house and the fact that you don't think you will be in the house more than 3-5 years tells me it isn't worth the extra money. Save that for the siding or other project and go with the bermuda grass.

Yeah, I'm doing more and more reading and might be leaning more towards the bermuda. The only thing in the "don't know" category at this point is if we'd "get back" the $1k over time because zoysia requires less fertilization than the bermuda. I feel like I'm learning more about grass varieties than I thought I needed to know.

penguin44 · February 2015

My parents have zoysia. It's very soft and low maintenance. It goes dormant in the winter and turns brown, but every summer it is the best in the neighborhood. I don't know if it is worth the investment if you are moving though.

They have never had problems with pet damage or weeds.

WhatawagSBNy · February 2015

For general environmental reasons, not using pesticides and herbicides and applications of fertilizer is attractive, aside from the huge savings .

Neighbors pay about 600 a year they say for "chemical services" and a properly installed zoysia just does not need it. And half the mowing cost if you hire that out, because it does not grow in height rapidly.

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