Wedding Woes

Talk me down and pat my head

HeffalumpHeffalump member
Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
edited April 2015 in Wedding Woes
I will keep this as brief as possible.  I always think more background is helpful, but it's probably not as helpful as I think.
  • Remember (a long time ago) how DC kept freaking out because DS wasn't sitting and stuff, and I was like "Yeah, that's how DD was, NBD?"  And then they threw around things like "poor muscle tone" and I freaked out, only to come on here and call the pedi and have everyone (nicely) tell me I was overreacting?
  • I just got an email from the principal at DC requesting "a conference to discuss [DS]'s development" with DH, me, DS's lead teacher, and the curriculum coordinator (who was also the lead teacher in Infant 1 who brought up poor muscle tone)
  • This is not the usual "Hey, parents, it's conference time again, click the link to sign up for your slot."  It was specifically to DH and me about DS.
  • <insert freakout here>
  • But I just did his 18 mo. ASQ (he was 18 mo. last Tuesday, and I did the ASQ the next day) and he wasn't even in the gray area for any of the categories.  He scored higher on some areas than others, but didn't have any scores at or near the cutoff.
  • After the above freakout, I Googled "18 month milestones," and he's doing all of this.  Literally, everything except the spoon--he'll start with the spoon, but after a couple of bites switches back to fingers.

So, what gives?  Have they just had it in their heads that he's behind ever since he wasn't sitting by 6 mo., and it's coloring how they see his development?  Are DH and I in some kind of crazy denial?  (I explored the latter pretty thoroughly last time, and the answer was a genuine no.  But I can't be truly objective.)  His pedi thinks he's doing great.  Independent questionnaires/websites/etc. seem to suggest he's fine. 

There is a kid who was born the day before he was who just moved up to Toddler 2, and we haven't gotten a date to move DS up yet.  But I wasn't too surprised, because we've been at this DC since DD was 2, and things tend to get backed up as you approach the end of the school year.  Then school is out, their current crop of KG and TK move to summer camp, pre-K starts moving up to fill the empty TK slots, and it ripples down through the entire school.

The only thing I can think of is that maybe DS is toward the bottom of his class, but fine compared to the general toddler population.  Which is exactly what happened with sitting--everyone was sitting but him, but he was still within the "official" milestone chart.  I mean, he runs, he draws with crayons, he loves games, he says more words than I can count.  I can't really see an issue, but maybe I'm just too close.

WDWWT?

ETF words

Re: Talk me down and pat my head

  • If your Dr. says he is fine, then I would take their opinion over a DC provider.  I would go to the meeting and see what they have to say, share what Dr, has said.  Then if they keep it up I would find a new DC provider.  It may just be something they have decided and nothing will change their mind, if that's the case it won't be fair to DS for them to keep treating him like there is a problem and holding him back.
  • yeah, this is nbd, especially considering this is your second child. i just assume they want to do this so they have a record that they attempted to intervene and reported your (clearly) poor parenting.

    image
  • *Barbie**Barbie* member
    Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited April 2015
    FWIW, my kid wasn't sitting by 6 months, either. (ETA: but was doing forward rolls on the high beam, yesterday. looks like she caught up.)

    I would listen to whatever they have to say, but wouldn't be concerned if you and your pedi both think he's doing fine. Given the history, i think it's completely reasonable for you to take whatever they say with a grain of salt. 

    Do you know the criteria for the kids to move up into the next room? is he meeting/exceeding that criteria now? i agree with you that these types of programs usually run into issues in moving kids up towards the end of the school year due to space. i've seen that with our school too. I didn't think there was as much impact in the toddler rooms, but depending on how full they are, you could be seeing that trickledown. 

    Is there any reason that the conference could be positive in nature? (maybe they just want to discuss moving him up?)

    I do agree with peg that if this is becoming a *thing* and you think it's going to keep impacting his progress at the school, then you may want to look at other options. 
  • GBCKGBCK member
    Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its Name Dropper
    If this is really a *thing*, you guys are attentive and have resources and will make plans and will deal with it.
    So...try not to panic until you even know if there's a *thing* to circle the wagons around
  • If your Dr. says he is fine, then I would take their opinion over a DC provider.  I would go to the meeting and see what they have to say, share what Dr, has said.  Then if they keep it up I would find a new DC provider.  It may just be something they have decided and nothing will change their mind, if that's the case it won't be fair to DS for them to keep treating him like there is a problem and holding him back.

    Agreed completely, especially with the bolded.
  • If your Dr. says he is fine, then I would take their opinion over a DC provider.  I would go to the meeting and see what they have to say, share what Dr, has said.  Then if they keep it up I would find a new DC provider.  It may just be something they have decided and nothing will change their mind, if that's the case it won't be fair to DS for them to keep treating him like there is a problem and holding him back.

    I thought that too, about the pedi vs. DC.  On the one hand, DC does see him every day, 5 days a week.  OTOH, they also have about 10 other kids in there, so it's not like they're watching everything he does all day long.  After he started sitting on his own, I thought they moved on, but maybe not.
     
    *Barbie* said:

    Do you know the criteria for the kids to move up into the next room? is he meeting/exceeding that criteria now? i agree with you that these types of programs usually run into issues in moving kids up towards the end of the school year due to space. i've seen that with our school too. I didn't think there was as much impact in the toddler rooms, but depending on how full they are, you could be seeing that trickledown. 

    Is there any reason that the conference could be positive in nature? (maybe they just want to discuss moving him up?)

    I do agree with peg that if this is becoming a *thing* and you think it's going to keep impacting his progress at the school, then you may want to look at other options. 

    I pulled up the list of Toddler 1 developmental goals earlier, and he's doing most but not all.  IIRC, usually 75% is the point at which they bump your kid up, depending on class size.  Out of the language arts goals, the only thing he isn't doing are two-word sentences*, which every other source lists as a 24 mo. milestone.  Self-help, the only thing he's not doing is (consistently) eating from a spoon.  Gross motor, the only one I'm not sure about is attempting to jump--we haven't tried this at home, so IDK.  (See also, Hmo's crappy parenting comment.)  Cognitive, the only ones I haven't seen are hand preference (DH and I debate this often, as DH is left-handed and thinks DS is leaning #TeamLefty; I'm not convinced), and "begins to understand opposites."  And of all the others (music and movement, creative art, etc.), the only thing I'm not sure about is "Originates process-art pieces" b/c I don't know what that means.

    So @*Barbie*, it may be that they're on the fence about moving him up.  Maybe they have questions and our feedback will help them decide if he's truly ready or needs to hold off.

    * DH and I were laughing about the two word sentences the other day when I did DS's ASQ, because when DD was his age, her favorite multi-word sentence was "manta ray in aquarium."  (We had just been to the Georgia Aquarium, and it apparently made an impression on her.)  Her pedi was like "Are you serious right now?"  Shrug, that's Wooz for ya.

    Anyway, I replied to their email and told them which days/times are good for us, and asked what it's about, specifically, "so we can arrive prepared and make the best use of our time together."  Pins and needles waiting for a response.
  • If you are truly, truly concerned - speak with your pediatrician. If none of those teachers or caregivers is a PT or some sort of physician, they should NOT be throwing around terms like "poor muscle tone" as they are not qualified to diagnose. Would they want someone to diagnose their giant leg mole as skin cancer unless the person was a dermatologist?

    If your doc hasn't raised any red flags then I wouldn't let this get to you.
  • If you are truly, truly concerned - speak with your pediatrician. If none of those teachers or caregivers is a PT or some sort of physician, they should NOT be throwing around terms like "poor muscle tone" as they are not qualified to diagnose. Would they want someone to diagnose their giant leg mole as skin cancer unless the person was a dermatologist?

    If your doc hasn't raised any red flags then I wouldn't let this get to you.

    That did bother me at the time.  Did I ever mention what happened when DS was first diagnosed with his (temporary) lactose intolerance after a round of amoxicillin?  When I notified the school and went in to update his dietary sheet, the principal (of all people) said she thought it was probably gluten intolerance.  I so wanted to snark on her.  "Thanks for the second opinion.  Our pedi has been practicing for 10 years and got her degree from Baylor--where did you go to medical school?"  I have a ton of respect for teachers, but I agree, they're not equipped to dispense medical advice.  It annoyed me, but the aside from the principal being a dummy, they followed the instructions on DS's sheet, and we haven't had any other issues.  So I chalked it up to someone reading too many Facebook posts about gluten, and I moved on.  (I have two cousins who are gluten intolerant, so I'm not dismissive of it as a whole, just dismissive of the principal's "medical" experience.)    

    As luck would have it, the pedi was pretty booked up, so DS's 18 mo appt isn't until next Tuesday.  That will be excellent timing to go over whatever DC says.


  • PF's daycare raised some questions with me when we were starting the diagnosis process, but it was after our pediatrician had already said that she wanted us to see neuro. There are times when it can be a flip little conversation during pick up or drop off but to get an email like the one you got is ridiculous and causes unnecessary parental distress.
  • HeffalumpHeffalump member
    Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited April 2015
    Update:  now I have more DC concerns.  Their reply stated "developmental and behavioral concerns" so I called and the asst. principal said that he's been pulling hair and biting.  I'm concerned, because I have only ever received one incident report where he was the aggressor--he's been bitten a couple of times, but we've never received a report that said he'd bitten anyone, and there was one hair pulling incident several weeks ago.  (Which I mentioned here, because that was when they showed me the hair and I thought that was a little strange.)

    If DS, is in fact, pulling hair and biting, I would expect to have heard about it before now.  Honestly, I could see hair pulling--we have to remind him about that periodically at home.  It hasn't been an issue recently, but it's not inconceivable that it could be at school.  But biting?  I've never seen him bite anyone, ever.  Not to say it couldn't happen or hasn't happened, but it's news to us.

    Do you think they'll kick him out?  I mean, they can't kick him out if we've never even had a conversation about it, right?  I have to find our parent handbook.
  • He's 18 months old.  Hair pulling and biting are both common in that age group.  They don't have the words to say they're upset/want something.  

    They sound ridiculous from what you're saying here. :/
  • lol @ hair pulling and biting. when baby mo got bit at dc, i asked him, "who did it?" (jokingly) and one of his little friends piped up "i did!", all proud. 

    they *could* kick him out for consistent behavioral problems, but it doesn't seem like that's a thing. as for developmental issues, i doubt they would boot for that. that just has lawsuit all over it.

    (anecdote: baby mo came home one day, and the afternoon teacher told us he was in a bad mood. we took a look at him, and lifted up his shirt. he was covered in hives. they gave him a sesame cracker for a snack. baby mo is allergic to sesame. so yeah -- he was in a bad mood. he was having an allergic reaction. so yeah -- daycare can say he is in a bad mood, but it's their fault, yo.) 
    image
  • So apparently the "developmental and behavior" are one and the same, both about biting/hair pulling.  I Googled a whole bunch of articles and feel somewhat better now.  And I ordered Teeth Are Not for Biting and No Biting! and they should arrive Thursday.  So I guess I'll see what happens.  I have so. many. questions. for them. 
  • *Barbie**Barbie* member
    Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited April 2015
    Heffalump said:

    Update:  now I have more DC concerns.  Their reply stated "developmental and behavioral concerns" so I called and the asst. principal said that he's been pulling hair and biting.  I'm concerned, because I have only ever received one incident report where he was the aggressor--he's been bitten a couple of times, but we've never received a report that said he'd bitten anyone, and there was one hair pulling incident several weeks ago.  (Which I mentioned here, because that was when they showed me the hair and I thought that was a little strange.)

    If DS, is in fact, pulling hair and biting, I would expect to have heard about it before now.  Honestly, I could see hair pulling--we have to remind him about that periodically at home.  It hasn't been an issue recently, but it's not inconceivable that it could be at school.  But biting?  I've never seen him bite anyone, ever.  Not to say it couldn't happen or hasn't happened, but it's news to us.

    Do you think they'll kick him out?  I mean, they can't kick him out if we've never even had a conversation about it, right?  I have to find our parent handbook.

    if he's been bitten before, then it would be a good indication where he learned the biting. (it could also be in self defense - eg - the other kid hit/bit/stole a toy and your kid hit/bit/pulled hair as a reaction.) I honestly can't see them kicking him out for behavior issues unless it was an ongoing thing, and you guys didn't seem to care/were unwilling to try things to correct the behavior. 

    When we had issues with Wolverine getting bitten (16-18mo), the school said their first action was to work with the other parents,and try to separate the kids. They only had one dismissal in the past 10 years or so due to biting, and it took stitches on the bitten kid before they kicked him out. (I guess at that point, he was a liability.) Wolverine bit a few times a few months later - I want to say around 20mo or so (it's pretty common in that 18mo-2yr age range), and they moved her up a room and she stopped. their explanation in her case was sometimes it's just a question of the kid being bored/frustrated and not able to communicate it well, so they turn to physical reactions rather than verbal. we didn't hear anything about it after the move, so i guess being one of the youngest, and being in a more challenging environment was more of a challenge so resolved the boredom/frustration.
  • 6fsn6fsn member
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    Well, 6let did get kicked out for biting at 12 months, but I think it had more to do with that center

    Anyway, if the doc isn't worried and neither are you, smile and nod and carry on.

  • *Barbie* said:

    (it could also be in self defense - eg - the other kid hit/bit/stole a toy and your kid hit/bit/pulled hair as a reaction.)

    effing boxes

    Interestingly, last week he was all hopped up on one of the Llama Llama books in his class, like the instant I got there he was pointing and saying "mama-mama."  So we pulled the book off the shelf and sat down, and the other kids starting closing in around us, like zombies.  And DS started getting visibly agitated and clutched the book all white-knuckled in one hand while waving his hand like this
    image

    One of the girls (the one whose hair he pulled a few weeks ago, actually) made a grab for the book anyway, at which point his teacher redirected her and I moved DS and the book.  So I could see it being a reaction to having stuff taken from him--he's a ginger, with a temper to match.

  • 6fsn said:

    Well, 6let did get kicked out for biting at 12 months, but I think it had more to do with that center

    Anyway, if the doc isn't worried and neither are you, smile and nod and carry on.

    Isn't that a little way too extreme?  I mean, 12 months, you don't even really know what you're doing.  And that seems like prime teething time, too.  WTF?
  • 6fsn6fsn member
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    It was very WTFery and I'm sure there was something else going on because of something a different teacher said.  At the time I was all fired up, but 5 years later the details are very fuzzy and I mainly laugh about it.  The place was awful.  The next place was just as bad.
  • mrsconn23mrsconn23 member
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    edited April 2015
    I remember that, 6.  

    Related note: I'm really hoping I can get DefConn into afternoon K (I don't think our district is at full-day, unfortunately) so that I don't have to have any more daycare when he starts school.   If he does afternoon, I can manage it no problem. If he's in morning, he will have to do afterschool care. 

    Things are better at his daycare, but I still don't like having him there.  The issues with his teacher left a bad taste in my mouth about all of it.  
  • GBCKGBCK member
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    once you're soured on them, it's hard to be won back.

    (We talked about this w/ our DC when Buffy started.  And, yes, they do eventually kick you out for biting and what-not...but the director basically said that we wouldn't be shocked at the meeting--that we should have already had meetings and plans (which didn't work) and the like before that would happen)


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