Cheating: Abuse?

hellohkb · April 2015

So there have been a few threads about cheating and the subject came up in a feminist group I belong to on Facebook.

It was about Hillary Clinton and most of us were discussing and agreeing that what happened many moons ago between Bill and Monica is none of our business. We were all hoping it doesn't continuously get brought up in the media during her campaign because we felt it wasn't right and the world should move on. One woman said we should not forget about it because what he did was abusive. A few other members agreed that it was in fact abusive of him to be unfaithful.

So I'm curious- Does anyone on here believe infidelity is a form of abuse?

JennyColada · April 2015

I think that that's kind of a leap. I mean, sure, you COULD make an argument that it may be "emotionally abusive", but I wouldn't say that it always is, or even that it may have been in their case.

I think that they're two separate things, but they CAN coincide.

flutteringinfl · April 2015

No, I don't believe it's a form of abuse. I believe it's dispicable, but not abusive.

AprilH81 · April 2015

Abuse towards Hillary? No.

Abuse towards Monica? Maybe since he was in a position of power and as an intern she could be considered as "weaker" and "vulnerable". It really depends on how much pressure he exerted to start the relationship and how willing she was.

lyndausvi · April 2015

Yeah, I can see how it can be a form of emotional abuse, but even then it can be a stretch.

In the Clinton's case I suspect they have an arrangement and he happened to get publicly caught, but not necessarily "caught" as far as their marriage goes.

I don't believe for a moment either one of them are faithful to each other in the traditional sense. I think they play the happily married card for votes.

hellohkb · April 2015

I agree with you all- I think to say it's emotional abuse is a bit of a stretch but I can see how it can be thought of that way. This member is now getting angry with me saying that she was a victim of infidelity and developed PTSD. Not even sure how to respond to her at this point.

KatieinBkln · April 2015

I think this very much depends on the dynamics of the relationship in question. If a man (for instance) cheats on his wife repeatedly, gaslights her and insists that her opinion on the matter is moot and her position in life depends upon her staying with him regardless of how he treats her? That's absolutely abusive.

If someone strays, it comes out, and the couple is able to work through it and forgive/forget? That sounds like a healthy response to me, actually (not the only healthy response--breaking up can and often is the healthiest choice for most).

I disagree with placing the mantle of "Victim" on people without their consent. It feels gross in the same way that any unconsenting action does. If Hilary doesn't see herself as a victim, why should I? I don't know her life better than she does.

Questions of whether or not you're a victim are best worked out with a therapist, in my opinion. (If there is any question--a lot of times people are very aware that they're in a bad spot; it's only for cases where the victim becomes self-blaming and insecure about what they "deserve" that I think a pro needs to be brought in, if only because it's hard to hear "you're being mistreated and you don't even know it" from a friend).

flutteringinfl · April 2015

hellohkb said:
I agree with you all- I think to say it's emotional abuse is a bit of a stretch but I can see how it can be thought of that way. This member is now getting angry with me saying that she was a victim of infidelity and developed PTSD. Not even sure how to respond to her at this point.

I mean, people can get PTSD from all sorts of events, doesn't make the actual event abuse. If she's throwing a tantrum because you disagree with her broad definition of abuse but are otherwise sympathetic to her struggles, that's a her problem.

hellohkb · April 2015

KatieinBkln said:
I think this very much depends on the dynamics of the relationship in question. If a man (for instance) cheats on his wife repeatedly, gaslights her and insists that her opinion on the matter is moot and her position in life depends upon her staying with him regardless of how he treats her? That's absolutely abusive.

If someone strays, it comes out, and the couple is able to work through it and forgive/forget? That sounds like a healthy response to me, actually (not the only healthy response--breaking up can and often is the healthiest choice for most).

I disagree with placing the mantle of "Victim" on people without their consent. It feels gross in the same way that any unconsenting action does. If Hilary doesn't see herself as a victim, why should I? I don't know her life better than she does.

Questions of whether or not you're a victim are best worked out with a therapist, in my opinion. (If there is any question--a lot of times people are very aware that they're in a bad spot; it's only for cases where the victim becomes self-blaming and insecure about what they "deserve" that I think a pro needs to be brought in, if only because it's hard to hear "you're being mistreated and you don't even know it" from a friend).

Completely agree. Infidelity is so complex that it's not a one size fits all situation. And assigning a victim role without consent IS pretty gross.

KatieinBkln · April 2015

hellohkb said:
I agree with you all- I think to say it's emotional abuse is a bit of a stretch but I can see how it can be thought of that way. This member is now getting angry with me saying that she was a victim of infidelity and developed PTSD. Not even sure how to respond to her at this point.

I'm so sorry that happened to her! But logic teaches us that just because Some A are B it doesn't follow that ALL A are B. Infidelity CAN be abusive, but not all infidelity is abuse.

If I could draw a venn diagram I would...actually I wouldn't. I don't blame her for being upset, but it's not possible to reason with someone when they're in a state.

It does get me thinking about whether abuse is on a continuum. After all, anyone can make a mistake (even a thoughtless, shitty mistake). They might even have a pattern of mistake-making. But ultimately I think the determination of what kinds of behaviors are abusive comes down to A. the way the recipient reacts to the behavior, and B. whether the behavior has become persistent and ingrained.

blabla89 · April 2015

I don't think infidelity is abusive in itself, but it could very well (and I'm sure, often is) accompanied by some form of verbal or emotional abuse.

Of course, if someone is potentially exposing their partner to STIs by sleeping around and not using protection, I think the line gets a little blurry there. Abuse or not, that is unacceptable.

classicalandedgy · April 2015

An abuse of his power... and towards Monica as a result yes. Towards Hillary not so much IMO. However, it is certainly an abuse of trust.

In certain circumstances the cheating may involve other issues, but I don't see cheating in and of itself abuse.

princessofgenovia · April 2015

I've always been a big believer that the only people who actually know whats happening in any given relationship are the people in the relationship. Of which I am not one.

Can cheating be a subset of an abusive relationship? Absolutely. Does that mean that it is every time? No.

Just like yelling. In my family yelling, in and of itself, is not abuse. We're loud. We yell. We yell when we are happy, we yell when we are angry, sometimes we just get loud and don't even know it. Loud voices, yelling, these can be subsets of abuse. But they aren't every time.

levioosa · April 2015

Katie pretty much said what I was going to say.

Is cheating in and of itself abuse? I think it's super douchey and despicable, but I wouldn't call it abuse straight out. Can it be accompanied by abusive actions, such as gaslighting, or other types of abuse? Absolutely. But I wouldn't say that they go hand in hand. While I've known couples where the cheating was accompanied by abuse and ended terribly, I've also known couples who dealt with cheating by going to therapy and are now in healthy and successful marriages. It took a lot of time and rebuilt trust to get there though. I would say those couples are the minority.

FiancB · April 2015

I think it's a leap. It certainly often coincides with abuse and it's certainly disrespectful. There's often a lot of using and gaslighting and controlling behavior- how many people have we known that have accused their SO of cheating and always want to keep an eye on them, when they themselves are cheating?

I kinda always suspected that the Clintons have an open relationship or at least a marriage of convenience.

ETA: I mean, look at them. They totally look like they could be into that.

princessofgenovia · April 2015

FiancB said:
I think it's a leap. It certainly often coincides with abuse and it's certainly disrespectful. There's often a lot of using and gaslighting and controlling behavior- how many people have we known that have accused their SO of cheating and always want to keep an eye on them, when they themselves are cheating?

I kinda always suspected that the Clintons have an open relationship or at least a marriage of convenience.

ETA: I mean, look at them. They totally look like they could be into that.

Maybe it was a poly relationship and Hilary was getting down with Monica too. Just ya know, smart enough to keep it hush hush.

littlepep · April 2015

FiancB said:
I think it's a leap. It certainly often coincides with abuse and it's certainly disrespectful. There's often a lot of using and gaslighting and controlling behavior- how many people have we known that have accused their SO of cheating and always want to keep an eye on them, when they themselves are cheating?

I kinda always suspected that the Clintons have an open relationship or at least a marriage of convenience.

ETA: I mean, look at them. They totally look like they could be into that.

I actually imagine their relationship is very much like Fitz and Mellie from Scandal, where they are helping each other which the other's political aspirations.

charcoalandblush · April 2015

I agree with many PPs. I think that cheating can be abusive, but it isn't always necessarily.

I also agree that it could have been an abuse of power towards Monica, but that it wasn't necessarily.

I think both are just such fact-specific issues.

redoryx · April 2015

FiancB said:
I think it's a leap. It certainly often coincides with abuse and it's certainly disrespectful. There's often a lot of using and gaslighting and controlling behavior- how many people have we known that have accused their SO of cheating and always want to keep an eye on them, when they themselves are cheating?

I kinda always suspected that the Clintons have an open relationship or at least a marriage of convenience.

ETA: I mean, look at them. They totally look like they could be into that.

It wouldn't surprise me. There are more couples out there who are more fluid with monogamy than most people realize, although I think they are coming out more and more with time and acceptance. Back then, though? I can see how it was easier/better to allow the media and society to label it as infidelity rather than be open about a possible open or monogamish marriage. (Which is a sad commentary on society's puritanical views regarding sex)

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