Final Numbers date

bb2016 · June 2015

Hi Everyone,

I'm not sure exactly where to ask this question, so if I need to try another board please let me know.

We are looking at various reception sites that include onsite catering and a number of them want the final head count at 30 days out. I've read on here that invitations should go out 6-8 weeks before the wedding and RSVP date should be ~1 week before the venue/catering needs the final head count, that way we have 1 week to track down anyone that hasn't RSVP'd. Based on that timeline I would have to send invitations out sooner and have an RSVP date of 5 weeks before the wedding. I know that this is not acceptable and would likely cause issues because people can't know for sure if they will make it that far in advance. So I find it odd that quite a few have 30 days listed.

Has anyone else encountered these situations when selecting a venue/catering and how did you handle it?

Viczaesar · June 2015

bb2016 said:

Hi Everyone,

I'm not sure exactly where to ask this question, so if I need to try another board please let me know.

We are looking at various reception sites that include onsite catering and a number of them want the final head count at 30 days out. I've read on here that invitations should go out 6-8 weeks before the wedding and RSVP date should be ~1 week before the venue/catering needs the final head count, that way we have 1 week to track down anyone that hasn't RSVP'd. Based on that timeline I would have to send invitations out sooner and have an RSVP date of 5 weeks before the wedding. I know that this is not acceptable and would likely cause issues because people can't know for sure if they will make it that far in advance. So I find it odd that quite a few have 30 days listed.
Has anyone else encountered these situations when selecting a venue/catering and how did you handle it?

Have you talked to them about it? I would question them about that number and push back on it. They should not need final numbers 30 days out. @lyndausvi can speak to this better than I can.

JoanE2012 · June 2015

No caterer needs numbers 30 days in advance. They are not ordering food that early. Have you asked them what their reasoning is? If they stand firm on it, it would be a deal breaker for me. Partly because I would never ask my guests to respond that early and partly because the caterer doesn't know how to properly handle events.

MairePoppy · June 2015

You could narrow down your caterers by asking if they are willing to accept a final head count at 2 weeks out. Eliminate any who aren't flexible.

lyndausvi · June 2015

Negotiate, negotiate, negotiate.

Ideally it would be a week out. I wouldn't settle for anything over 14 days. My own was 72 hours. Most of the places I've worked were the same. None were 30 days out.

Tell them you want to provide them "soft numbers" 30 days out and hard numbers 14 days out.

Soft numbers are the amount amount of yeses + the amount of not heard from yet.

For example, say you sent out 100 invites. 30 days out you have 40 yeses and 50 people you have not heard from yet. This lets the venue/cater know that there will be at least 40 people, but no more than 90.

Hard numbers are your final numbers.

You can even add you will let them know soft numbers 21 days out too.

bb2016 · June 2015

Thanks everyone! I haven't spoke to either of the places about it so far, I was just really surprised when they rattled of that number. The first time, I thought it was just a fluke and if I wanted to book that venue I'd discuss it with them before signing. But now I'm going to view another location next week that lists the final guest count in a similar manner. The language in their information packet is written like this: "The guaranteed number of guests is required 30 days prior to the event. The final number is the minimum amount of guests that you will be billed for."--Which based on @l yndausvi explanation above, I would not want to give them a soft number here because a number of people that haven't had a chance to reply yet might be coming. So I'd have to give them only the number of yeses.

Another question; we've had a separate venue give us a more reasonable final number date of a week or two, but my FI called and asked this: "If we sign a contract for X amount of guests today and the wedding doesn't take place until next year, will we get refunded the difference if only Y guests show up?" the woman he spoke to (she is the sales consultant in charge) said "No."

I don't know if I'm misunderstanding how these contracts work or my FI and the woman had a misunderstanding. When we are paying almost a flat per person rate how could we be expected to know how many people will actually show up a year from our date? Are we suppose to sign a contract for a much smaller number of people? And then when RSVPs come back we can give them our actual number of expected guests, and they would have to increase our amount due to them?

ShesSoCold · June 2015

bb2016 said:

Thanks everyone! I haven't spoke to either of the places about it so far, I was just really surprised when they rattled of that number. The first time, I thought it was just a fluke and if I wanted to book that venue I'd discuss it with them before signing. But now I'm going to view another location next week that lists the final guest count in a similar manner. The language in their information packet is written like this: "The guaranteed number of guests is required 30 days prior to the event. The final number is the minimum amount of guests that you will be billed for."--Which based on @l yndausvi explanation above, I would not want to give them a soft number here because a number of people that haven't had a chance to reply yet might be coming. So I'd have to give them only the number of yeses.

Another question; we've had a separate venue give us a more reasonable final number date of a week or two, but my FI called and asked this: "If we sign a contract for X amount of guests today and the wedding doesn't take place until next year, will we get refunded the difference if only Y guests show up?" the woman he spoke to (she is the sales consultant in charge) said "No."

I don't know if I'm misunderstanding how these contracts work or my FI and the woman had a misunderstanding. When we are paying almost a flat per person rate how could we be expected to know how many people will actually show up a year from our date? Are we suppose to sign a contract for a much smaller number of people? And then when RSVPs come back we can give them our actual number of expected guests, and they would have to increase our amount due to them?

Are you expected to pay the full amount up front? If so, run. That's crazy. In my experience, most places will have you put down a deposit to secure your date and then you will pay the remainder as the date gets closer. So, say you're planning on 100 guests at $100 a head. You pay a deposit of $500 now to get you on the calendar. So a week or so before your event, you owe $9,500 for the rest of those people (plus tax and gratuity and all that). For me, we paid half of the total expected balance 30 days before (so $4,750 for my example) and then the rest of the $4,750 would be due like three days before. If our guest count went down, say to 90 total, we would have owed $4,650.

I hope this makes sense.

lyndausvi · June 2015

bb2016 said:

Thanks everyone! I haven't spoke to either of the places about it so far, I was just really surprised when they rattled of that number. The first time, I thought it was just a fluke and if I wanted to book that venue I'd discuss it with them before signing. But now I'm going to view another location next week that lists the final guest count in a similar manner. The language in their information packet is written like this: "The guaranteed number of guests is required 30 days prior to the event. The final number is the minimum amount of guests that you will be billed for."--Which based on @l yndausvi explanation above, I would not want to give them a soft number here because a number of people that haven't had a chance to reply yet might be coming. So I'd have to give them only the number of yeses.

Another question; we've had a separate venue give us a more reasonable final number date of a week or two, but my FI called and asked this: "If we sign a contract for X amount of guests today and the wedding doesn't take place until next year, will we get refunded the difference if only Y guests show up?" the woman he spoke to (she is the sales consultant in charge) said "No."

I don't know if I'm misunderstanding how these contracts work or my FI and the woman had a misunderstanding. When we are paying almost a flat per person rate how could we be expected to know how many people will actually show up a year from our date? Are we suppose to sign a contract for a much smaller number of people? And then when RSVPs come back we can give them our actual number of expected guests, and they would have to increase our amount due to them?

Some venues have a minimum. Meaning even a year out you agree to pay for "x" people. Think of it this way, they are not going to hold the big ball room that seats 300 people for a 50 person wedding. So they want to realistically book something for the size room they have. It's a guessing game. I would pick a number of 20% below the number of people you are inviting. Although if that number means a difference between what room you will need to book, then pick a number for the bigger room. You do not want to put yourself in a position of having a smaller room and everyone saying yes.

Closer to the wedding they are going to ask for guarantee numbers. This number is the number of yeses you have received. Ideally you should give this number as close to the wedding as possible. 30 days is too early in my opinion, try shooting for 7-14 days out. I would negotiate the 30 days in the contract.

If the guarantee number is more than the minimum agreed to when you signed the contract they you not only pay the difference, but you are effectively up'ing your minimum amount from the original contract. The guarantee number is what they set the room up for, staff and make the food for. You do not want to underestimate this number. If the number is less then the minimum then you will still have to pay the higher amount.

Then there are actual numbers. That is the number of people who actually show up. If you have no shows (nearly everyone does) you still pay for them. If you have more people then you pay more.

aliwis000 · June 2015

Our venue had us sign a contract for 100 people, this was when we booked about a year out from the date.

So we are on the hook for paying for at least a 100 people. HOWEVER we are inviting 235 so we KNEW that we would get the 100 easy. In the contract it also states the price per head over 100. 15 days before the event we owe them exact numbers at this point we pay for the guest number over 100 multiplied by the price per head on the contract. EXAMPLE: If our final number is 180 then we pay the price per head multiplied by 80, as 80 is the amount over the 100 in the contract.

Our wedding planner said this was a pretty common practice. A venue wants at least some idea but should not need hard numbers till max 2 weeks out.

If they expect you to have exact numbers a month out run!

bb2016 · June 2015

Thanks for the explanation everyone.

huskypuppy14 · June 2015

So my venue was a little different. They didn't have a minimum number of people but a minimum amount of money. I needed to spend at least 16K for Saturday night wedding. My original contract was for 135 people, but we invited 160 and had 110 attend. We were over that 16K number so it was fine even though we had less people than the original contract.

This made me more comfortable, because we could up the apps or bar even if less people came.

Maggie0829 · June 2015

huskypuppy14 said:

So my venue was a little different. They didn't have a minimum number of people but a minimum amount of money. I needed to spend at least 16K for Saturday night wedding. My original contract was for 135 people, but we invited 160 and had 110 attend. We were over that 16K number so it was fine even though we had less people than the original contract.

This made me more comfortable, because we could up the apps or bar even if less people came.

Typically when they have a minimum in regards to number of guests it is basically just a way for the venue to guarantee that you will spend $X. So if you don't meet the minimum number of people then you would just up the bar or add apps or upgrade the entree to meet the amount you would have spent if the minimum number of people attended. So really this is the same as having a minimum amount to spend. Venues just basically want to make sure that they aren't going to lose money on your event because you said 300 people are invited but only 50 decided to come.

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