Sexism: alive and well

novella1186 · August 2015

I'm annoyed with this.

H and I decided to start shopping around for a house. My mom is in real estate so I asked for a recommendation on a good mortgage place. She gave me the name of a guy she's worked with for over 15 years and told him "My daughter is thinking of buying a house and will be contacting you soon."

I contacted him. We spoke on the phone. I initiated the loan. And then introduced him to my H who will also be a borrower on our loan.

Last night we open a packet of papers that needed to be signed with "wet ink" and mailed back to their office. I start looking through the pages and realize that H has been listed as the "primary" on every single page, and I have been listed as "secondary" or "co-borrower." Um... why?

I've been the one in contact with the guy, I was the one who initiated the loan, I'm the one whose mother put me in contact with him, I make more money than H and we have almost exactly the same credit score. Neither of us could think of any reason as to why I was secondary, other than the fact that he's the man. Ugh.

H commented, "Well that's fucked up."

And I just kept thinking "What the ever-lovin' fuck, dude?!" Never mind that I have an MBA with an emphasis in finance. No. The wife can't handle financial documents or whatever nonsense.

Obviously it's not the end of the world and in the grand scheme of things it's not a big deal, but I find it quite annoying. Where is MI when you need her? I feel like she'd have some things to say on this.

ShesSoCold · August 2015

novella1186 said:

I'm annoyed with this.

H and I decided to start shopping around for a house. My mom is in real estate so I asked for a recommendation on a good mortgage place. She gave me the name of a guy she's worked with for over 15 years and told him "My daughter is thinking of buying a house and will be contacting you soon."

I contacted him. We spoke on the phone. I initiated the loan. And then introduced him to my H who will also be a borrower on our loan.

Last night we open a packet of papers that needed to be signed with "wet ink" and mailed back to their office. I start looking through the pages and realize that H has been listed as the "primary" on every single page, and I have been listed as "secondary" or "co-borrower." Um... why?

I've been the one in contact with the guy, I was the one who initiated the loan, I'm the one whose mother put me in contact with him, I make more money than H and we have almost exactly the same credit score. Neither of us could think of any reason as to why I was secondary, other than the fact that he's the man. Ugh.

H commented, "Well that's fucked up."
And I just kept thinking "What the ever-lovin' fuck, dude?!" Never mind that I have an MBA with an emphasis in finance. No. The wife can't handle financial documents or whatever nonsense.

Obviously it's not the end of the world and in the grand scheme of things it's not a big deal, but I find it quite annoying. Where is MI when you need her? I feel like she'd have some things to say on this.

I never in my life would have even noticed that. When H and I bought his truck, they listed him first but the vehicle was clearly for him. I asked them to switch it and they did.

ChemFanatic25 · August 2015

Oy, I'd be pretty pissed off to since I initiated a lot of transactions when searching for apartments, buying a car, etc when I was with my ex. Because I was the one who contacted both landlords (we moved twice) when moving to my current town, they listed me first on both. When I went to purchase my car my grandfather was with me but they didn't even ask if he was purchasing the car for me. They talked to me the entire time and I felt very respected. This would completely piss me off since purchasing a house is a lot of effort and if I'm initiating it then gosh darnit you better be putting me as the primary.

novella1186 · August 2015

ChemFanatic25 said:

Oy, I'd be pretty pissed off to since I initiated a lot of transactions when searching for apartments, buying a car, etc when I was with my ex. Because I was the one who contacted both landlords (we moved twice) when moving to my current town, they listed me first on both. When I went to purchase my car my grandfather was with me but they didn't even ask if he was purchasing the car for me. They talked to me the entire time and I felt very respected. This would completely piss me off since purchasing a house is a lot of effort and if I'm initiating it then gosh darnit you better be putting me as the primary.

Right?! Like I said, in the grand scheme of things it's not a big deal, but I just felt like this mortgage guy-- who I, not my H-- had been communicating with all this time just stepped right over me and went straight to H. It's a bit frustrating.

jenna8984 · August 2015

I would have noticed for sure! Becuase I'm currently going through the same process and I'm the one calling/ emailing/ dealing with the lender. And they had me first on every paper, which made sense to me!

julieanne912 · August 2015

I work in the title industry, and I pretty much always see the husband listed first on loan documents. I always wondered why.... maybe it has something to do with filing joint taxes... ie most people use the husband's social security number for that?

NowIamMrsKlein · August 2015

I would be annoyed by that too. Not on the same scale but a couple years ago my work had this big conference at a fancy schmanzy hotel. I was one of 4 women who planned and were running the whole thing. The hotel room was booked under my name and on my credit card and listed me as a VIP, Event Organizer. When I went to check us in they greeted me as "MRS.FILASTNAME" and asked me if my husband was around to verify the credit card that was on file.

I had to be polite because reasons, but I couldn't let that slide. I had to point out to the guy that the reservation was clearly under my name and my last name was clearly different than his. And why would I use my last name in the booking if I didn't want to be addressed by it. FI, being the wonderful man that he is piped up with 'Yea I'm sorry sir, but there is no way I could afford this place, I'm a lucky man that she invited me along"

They didn't learn though. I called the concierge one night to get a lightbulb changed and he once again addressed me by "Mrs. FILASTNAME" and at that point I had worked a 16 hour day and was exhausted and I may have snapped a bit and said "We arent married, my last name is X, which should be on the screen in front of you as I am the one who made the reservation, this isn't a hard concept, please address me by the name I gave you when I booked this hotel"

redheadbride15 · August 2015

I feel like this is the "default" for married couples, and it's annoying and archaic. In this age, people really should ask the couple what their preference is. Even if 90% of the time the answer is the husband then there is no harm done and most people would appreciate the gesture.

We've been married less than 3 months and I've already had to return insurance paperwork for correction twice - once they erroneously listed my husband as the primary, and the second time they listed me as the primary but with my husband's last name (I kept my maiden name). Annoying.

luckya23 · August 2015

I don't think it really matters on the paperwork who is primary and secondary, you're equally responsible, but I can see where this would be annoying! It may be the default in the forms - when we got our marriage license I was like hey how come Husband comes first?

I'm glad I bought my house when I was single ;-)

sal2015 · August 2015

I would be annoyed! I do most of the financial record-keeping and leg work, so my name is listed first on pretty much everything. I spent tons of extra time dealing with our mortgage guy and would have been very frustrated had he just over looked me because I am a woman married to a man. Yes, my husband bought the house right along with me and we are both responsible for it, but I did most of the research and work for it. I tend to get pretty indignant about things like that and I would probably look into a different mortgage guy and my husband would support that. Perhaps that's an over reaction on my part and I probably wouldn't end up changing if that was the best bank for us, but I would seriously consider it. If someone I'm doing business with doesn't respect me, then I would want to take my business elsewhere.

lyndausvi · August 2015

When we moved from IN to CO I was the one who made the moving arrangements. I booked with this one company, but then got a really bad feeling. 2 hours later I cancelled them. The guy was pissed I cancelled. I said I was sorry, but I decided to go a different route. I was the primary on the contract. Not my husband. Although his name on secondary because it was his company that was going to reimburse us.

He hung up with me and called my husband. DH was like "WTF dude? My wife is making all the arrangements, not me. If she cancelled it must have been for a good reason. The fact you called me to get around her seems like she made the right call in not using you".

I setup all the utilities. Most of them have both our names on the account, but I'm the primary/first name listed on all of them. Even DH lists me as the primary on most things because i'm easier to get a hold of.

I'm more concerned that we are both on accounts then who is listed first. Although I would side-eye a situation like Novella's.

thisismynickname2 · August 2015

That is weird that it happened and I'm glad you caught it! I, too, assume it's just an archaic notion that the husband is just automatically the head of household, ergo, head of household goes first on the form.

I own the condo DH and I live in because I bought it before we met. We had an accountant file our taxes for the first time as a married couple, and since the connection is through DH's parents, it was natural for the accountant to send everything to DH and I didn't even bother to look at the records. I'm assuming DH is listed first or is listed as head of household. It's ok by me because DH does make quite a bit more money than I do. It's logical in our case.

Point being, I'm interested to see what happens when we buy our first place together. If they do head of household first, then only by financial default that is indeed DH.

Hmmmmm!

lyndausvi · August 2015

thisismynickname said:

That is weird that it happened and I'm glad you caught it! I, too, assume it's just an archaic notion that the husband is just automatically the head of household, ergo, head of household goes first on the form.

I own the condo DH and I live in because I bought it before we met. We had an accountant file our taxes for the first time as a married couple, and since the connection is through DH's parents, it was natural for the accountant to send everything to DH and I didn't even bother to look at the records. I'm assuming DH is listed first or is listed as head of household. It's ok by me because DH does make quite a bit more money than I do. It's logical in our case.

Point being, I'm interested to see what happens when we buy our first place together. If they do head of household first, then only by financial default that is indeed DH.

Hmmmmm!

I do our taxes via Turbo Tax. I listed DH first. Not sure why? Maybe I'm sexist?

Although I'm pretty sure the first time his w2 was on top, so I started with his. Once it was setup I never changed.

princessleia22 · August 2015

My name is usually the primary on everything. Most of our utilities were set up in my name before DH and I met, so it never made sense to change them. But, I handle all our finances and make about twice as much money than DH, so it makes sense to have me as primary anyway.

Shortly after we got married, we renewed our lease for our apartment. I had always been listed as the primary tenant and when we first rented there we listed just my income, not his. When we went to sign the new paperwork, with my new married name, they now listed DH as the primary. Umm... after 4 years living here with me as the primary, and being the only tenant with any income shown in their records, why does getting married suddenly push DH to primary position? I noticed it, was slightly irked, but didn't bother changing it. But, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one to notice or be annoyed by that.

kmmssg · August 2015

You know if that happens to us next year I will surely speak up. We will buy sometime next year and we will be using my VA loan. I make 3 times what my husband makes because I am still working and he is retired. I earned that loan - and this is a touchy subject for me. the 80's and 90's were a VERY harsh place for women in the military so I can go off on a tangent kinda quick sometimes. Luckiy my almost 58 yo husband is really good about this stuff.

loveislouder · August 2015

redheadbride15 said:

I feel like this is the "default" for married couples, and it's annoying and archaic. In this age, people really should ask the couple what their preference is. Even if 90% of the time the answer is the husband then there is no harm done and most people would appreciate the gesture.

We've been married less than 3 months and I've already had to return insurance paperwork for correction twice - once they erroneously listed my husband as the primary, and the second time they listed me as the primary but with my husband's last name (I kept my maiden name). Annoying.

This is what I think too. I did our purchase paperwork and I listed H first on everything. I have kind of always done it that way - H first on everything. Not sure why.

novella1186 · August 2015

julieanne912 said:

I work in the title industry, and I pretty much always see the husband listed first on loan documents. I always wondered why.... maybe it has something to do with filing joint taxes... ie most people use the husband's social security number for that?

I guess that makes sense... but it's more systemic sexism! lol. I'm not trying to get all self-righteous or whatever. I just find it so annoying! And so silly.

What if I had married a woman? Then would I get to be first? Or would we be two secondaries? (Ah! What would we do without a man around?!) Seems like total nonsense to me.

ShesSoCold · August 2015

novella1186 said:

julieanne912 said:

I work in the title industry, and I pretty much always see the husband listed first on loan documents. I always wondered why.... maybe it has something to do with filing joint taxes... ie most people use the husband's social security number for that?

I guess that makes sense... but it's more systemic sexism! lol. I'm not trying to get all self-righteous or whatever. I just find it so annoying! And so silly.

What if I had married a woman? Then would I get to be first? Or would we be two secondaries? (Ah! What would we do without a man around?!) Seems like total nonsense to me.

Totally related. The bolded made me think of this

redheadbride15 · August 2015

ShesSoCold said:

novella1186 said:

julieanne912 said:

I work in the title industry, and I pretty much always see the husband listed first on loan documents. I always wondered why.... maybe it has something to do with filing joint taxes... ie most people use the husband's social security number for that?

I guess that makes sense... but it's more systemic sexism! lol. I'm not trying to get all self-righteous or whatever. I just find it so annoying! And so silly.

What if I had married a woman? Then would I get to be first? Or would we be two secondaries? (Ah! What would we do without a man around?!) Seems like total nonsense to me.

Totally related. The bolded made me think of this

Okay, this officially cracks me up! My poor DH cannot, for the life of him, make himself a damn sandwich! He can cook a 3-course meal (he's a good cook!) but when it comes time for a basic ham-and-cheese he comes whining to me "but where's the mayonnaise? how do I slice the tomato? what kind of bread do I use?"

NowIamMrsKlein · August 2015

redheadbride15 said:

ShesSoCold said:

novella1186 said:

julieanne912 said:

I work in the title industry, and I pretty much always see the husband listed first on loan documents. I always wondered why.... maybe it has something to do with filing joint taxes... ie most people use the husband's social security number for that?

I guess that makes sense... but it's more systemic sexism! lol. I'm not trying to get all self-righteous or whatever. I just find it so annoying! And so silly.

What if I had married a woman? Then would I get to be first? Or would we be two secondaries? (Ah! What would we do without a man around?!) Seems like total nonsense to me.

Totally related. The bolded made me think of this

Okay, this officially cracks me up! My poor DH cannot, for the life of him, make himself a damn sandwich! He can cook a 3-course meal (he's a good cook!) but when it comes time for a basic ham-and-cheese he comes whining to me "but where's the mayonnaise? how do I slice the tomato? what kind of bread do I use?"

Oh man, FI makes a mean sandwich and I am hopeless at it. He can toast the bread so its still squishy with just a bit of crunch and he's got the dressing, veggie, meat ratio down pat. My sandwhichs fall apart.... I always get him to make me my sammichs;)

novella1186 · August 2015

SoontobeMrsKlein said:

redheadbride15 said:

ShesSoCold said:

novella1186 said:

julieanne912 said:

I work in the title industry, and I pretty much always see the husband listed first on loan documents. I always wondered why.... maybe it has something to do with filing joint taxes... ie most people use the husband's social security number for that?

I guess that makes sense... but it's more systemic sexism! lol. I'm not trying to get all self-righteous or whatever. I just find it so annoying! And so silly.

What if I had married a woman? Then would I get to be first? Or would we be two secondaries? (Ah! What would we do without a man around?!) Seems like total nonsense to me.

Totally related. The bolded made me think of this

Okay, this officially cracks me up! My poor DH cannot, for the life of him, make himself a damn sandwich! He can cook a 3-course meal (he's a good cook!) but when it comes time for a basic ham-and-cheese he comes whining to me "but where's the mayonnaise? how do I slice the tomato? what kind of bread do I use?"

Oh man, FI makes a mean sandwich and I am hopeless at it. He can toast the bread so its still squishy with just a bit of crunch and he's got the dressing, veggie, meat ratio down pat. My sandwhichs fall apart.... I always get him to make me my sammichs;)

I showed H how to make a sandwich on a bagel in the oven so everything gets all toasty and the cheese gets melty. Now he does it better than me and I find that annoying. The student surpassed the teacher. It's like he has radar for the exact moment that everything is the perfect amount of toasty.

kmmssg · August 2015

Note to self: Chewy, toasty, cheesy bagle sammichs tomorrow night for dinner.

kimmiinthemitten · August 2015

@redheadbride15 - I'm dying here! Those are hilarious!

Sexism: alive and well

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